I kill anyone in 2 seconds in pvp... I quit - Page 2

Fromingo · 07-06-2006, 10:31 PM

Combine this with the fact that players are USUALLY in offensive stance while PvPing, and the Brigand can hit Brawlers and Zerks/Guardians nearly 100% of the time.

I'm usually in defensive versus melee players and offensive versus caster players. I can't imagine why a brigand would want to be offensive versus a tank. Our 30% chance to interrupt is negligable vs melee types since most combat arts are super quick casts. The + to offensive skills is not enough bonus IMO to lose the defense and mitigation of defensive stance vs melee. Even tanks can put out high burst DPS and my scout HP's don't want to get hit by that. Granted the high damage tank CA's usually have a long recast but most PvP starts with fresh timers and lasts less than a minute. Therefore avoiding the fresh burst DPS of a tank is preferable to the lessened benefits of offensive stance. This is even more true of Brigand vs Scout.

Telr · 07-06-2006, 11:31 PM

Quick question... Why is the OP still here...? Enjoying keeping some forum drama going? lol

Crimson Dragon · 07-07-2006, 12:02 AM

Archaiis wrote:
ummm none of those are marked as pvp spells (which are altered) + one of them is level 70 , which he did say he was only using T6 skills. Does anyone have pics of the PVP versions of these spell? if they are the same then maybe there is a problem.ps: class reconvened :smileyvery-happy:
Message Edited by Archaiis on 07-05-2006 11:44 PM

well, your original question was "is that even possible" and the answer is yes. :smileytongue:my brig is on a pve server (obviously). but i see someone already answered that the debuff is the same...the damage, however, is not. especially not when you toss in that guy's mit too.(doesn't add up to me, either)

Deeds · 07-07-2006, 06:30 AM

Here is the real answer:

Fight a well equiped berserker with AAs, that knows what they are doing. You will not win

you fought a [Removed for Content]

Message Edited by Deedbit on 07-06-2006 07:34 PM

Oblivi · 07-07-2006, 06:25 PM

When a smart brig get's the jump and lands the stun and wheels around for the mit reducing backstabs and what not... yeah. Any class will go down rather quickly. Regardless of gear/skill.But all the dps scouts can kill just about any class rather quickly.Also, there are a lot of players out there that just haven't bothered focusing on getting their health up as high as they can. As a brig I group with level 70 tanks that have less health than I do.At level 70 the devitalize/dispatch combo is nearly -5000 mit.Obviously solo pvp fights where the target in unbuffed will tend to go to the brigand when the brigand gets the jump.But to imply that just the brigand is overpowered in this capacity is untruth. There are a number of classes that will kill nearly anyone when they get the jump, many a lot more effeciently than a brigand. Hell, Rangers and Assassins can do it to players that are grouped.

Jeffmaster · 07-07-2006, 06:38 PM

agreed!

Assassins, Rangers, Swash all have high burst DPS....

Assassinate has DAM of up to 6000!!! Rangers have ranged attacks up to 4000 or so........

and it should be that way

Oblivi · 07-07-2006, 09:44 PM

Well I don't know what the delves for pvp on decapitate and sniper shot are, but comparably to brigands they are rather amusing.I know assassinate is, with the aa's, in line with 5k plus on average. Decapitate is obviously higher... Rangers same basic deal.I just wonder why so many are on a crusade to nerf brigs when we are actually relatively minor compared to other classes. (cough **fusion**)Heh wizzies hit for 4-5k with ice nova with good resists.I've been hit with sniper shots in the 5k range.

Riversideblues · 07-07-2006, 09:47 PM

yeah, unless you feel like kiting for a long time (very long) you just wont beat any good zerker

Grim0 · 07-08-2006, 02:22 AM

Correction... YOU may not beat any well-played Zerker, but as I've shown, the Brigand class easily has the capability to kill them within 5-10 seconds. I never countered a Zerker that posed a threat, and I fought against all of the high level Qeynosian ones on Venekor.Other classes that have extreme damage attacks are subject to damage mitigation and long re-use timers. Brigands can easily match ranger/assassin damage vs cloth targets, and vs plate targets Brigands are clearly superior. That 6k Decapitate? Reduced to 1200 damage, if the enemy doesn't dodge it outright.On the other hand, stacking all a Brigand's defense debuffs while fighting in offensive stance gives you nearly 100% chance to hit a level 70 monk with capped avoidance. Plate tanks will have 0% avoidance and 0% mit. Even if the sum of all 6 attacks in the Double-Up dump "only" total to 4-5k damage, that's a hell of a lot more than the Assassin's 1200 decapitate which has a chance to miss.And the best part? Brigands can do it once every minute, while Assassins have to wait either 15 (10 with talents) minutes to deal inferior damage. On top of that Brigands have better survivability, better frontal damage, and extremely powerful snares. I PvPed with an assassin as my partner for a long time, so I know exactly what they are capable of... while they have their own perks, overall they just aren't as powerful as a Brigand. Dispatch + Assassinate was a really fun combo though... good for nailing bell-hoppers with a 2-shot kill before they have the chance to zone.

Message Edited by Grim001 on 07-07-2006 07:21 PM

Archai · 07-08-2006, 06:54 AM

ok I am toooo curious about this subject. I did a little ladder searching. There are only like 10 brigands in the top 100 (and they are scattered). Ivakr is top 5 on ladder out of brigands (60-70) on his server. Definitely lends to credibility. 33rd on the entier server (60-70). Your not on the complete listing for all servers or on the 60-70 complete rankings.After scanning the ladder rankings completely, i don't see brigands as having a ridiculous showing on the boards. Seems if the class were so godlike it would occupy more of the top spots.

Xaldo · 07-08-2006, 08:58 AM

what is your brigand's char name Grim? I wanna see how well you do outside the arena.

Captain Apple Darkberry · 07-08-2006, 10:27 AM

Arena does not = PvPAnd the wonderful numbers essay ye posted doesn't really mean squat in the real world... ...if ye think that yer gonna be fighting the tank solo while he picks his nose, yer daft.Many classes look good on virtual paper...But I'm still calling BS on this thread and the OP. Its a veiled attempt at flexing his [Removed for Content]. Which, when the evidence is presented, seems small... If he truly wanted to leave, he would have already, if he truly wanted a challenge in PvP, its already out there waiting for him, if he could truly peel the big boy tanks like oranges, folks would know who he is.Step out of the Arena... ...the rules are different, and the "facts and numbers" are subject to being disproven.

Archai · 07-08-2006, 11:04 AM

The PVP LeaderboardsI knew i should have linked in the first place.Hell no I aint giving my brigands name. I am teh whackness. I am just here to state the facts. This whole thread is BS. This class is not overpowered

Telr · 07-08-2006, 11:44 AM

Well, what started out as a decent attempt to make a point in my eyes has now turned sour. To me the OP is just on here to perpetuate drama... Following him up makes it worse. He's made his point, it's been proven to be possible... Why continue to debate it? If you actually follow from page one to the end, most of the things that're being said now have already been said. Let it die. SMILEY

Grim0 · 07-09-2006, 10:12 PM

Archaiis, why sort the leaderboard by kill totals? Is the most skilled player in the game the one who stayed logged in 24/7 and farmed low-cons for kills? If you are looking for a gague of PvP performance you should sort it by infamy. I was previously #1 ranked Brigand across all servers, as well as #1 overall ranked on my server, infamy-wise. This was around a month and a half ago when there were only a few Masters on each server. After that point I stopped PvPing seriously because I had achieved my goal and it felt hollow. The arena fight I gave as an example was just an example. I very rarely set foot in there. All of my comments are based on real-world PvP experience.As for the lack of high-performing Brigands compared to some other classes, well, the Brigand class isn't as easy as the Assassin or Ranger class. We don't just get to walk up and hit the I-WIN button. We have to hit multiple I-WIN buttons quickly. However, a skilled Brig has more potential than either of those classes. There just aren't very many people who are skilled enough to realize that potential.

It's a class that demands a lot of button mashing, but when played correctly, it is the most powerful and versatile PvP class in the game at the role of killing people while avoiding being killed. My primary point is not that the Brigand class is far superior to the other top DPS classes in pure damage output (although we definately are against plate tanks). The main point is that the brigand has all that burst damage, with no long cooldowns, extremely powerful debuffs that can turn make brawler or tank as squishy as a caster, strong damage output regardless of position, godlike snares, godlike stuns, a good ranged knockback, and the best survivability out of the scouts. It just adds up to a package that is more complete than any other scout class for PvP.

I will most likely not reply to this thread anymore unless someone attempts to engage in intelligent discourse (not likely).

Message Edited by Grim001 on 07-09-2006 11:30 AM

Archai · 07-10-2006, 01:40 AM

Cool i get last word. Once again, if brigands were "unbalanced" there would be a lot more people abusing them. So you're unhappy with how good your class is? Its potential is higher than everyone elses? You can beat anyone in 5 seconds? You're ranking is not very impressive at all compared to the other people on the leaderboards and I am not surprised other classes rank just as well (and better) in every way. I am glad your whinning about something that doesn't need to be fixed will end.

Snowbeard · 07-10-2006, 03:48 AM

I think everyone here has forgotten that Brigands suck.We've been saying this since release. One post about "how we rule" just doesn't convince me...

Captain Apple Darkberry · 07-11-2006, 07:36 PM

Troll... ...plain and simple.

And "intelligent discourse" doesn't mean "agree with me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it!"

Are brigands good? ...yes. If you know how to play it.

Is "class x" good? ...yes. if you know how to play it.

07-07-2006, 12:02 AM	#33
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	Archaiis wrote: ummm none of those are marked as pvp spells (which are altered) + one of them is level 70 , which he did say he was only using T6 skills. Does anyone have pics of the PVP versions of these spell? if they are the same then maybe there is a problem.ps: class reconvened :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by Archaiis on 07-05-2006 11:44 PM well, your original question was "is that even possible" and the answer is yes. :smileytongue:my brig is on a pve server (obviously). but i see someone already answered that the debuff is the same...the damage, however, is not. especially not when you toss in that guy's mit too.(doesn't add up to me, either) __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

07-07-2006, 09:47 PM	#38
Riversideblues Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 476	yeah, unless you feel like kiting for a long time (very long) you just wont beat any good zerker __________________ I would not use my level 80 epic if it was given to me at level 70. Illusionist EPIC??, thanks for being 100% out of touch with the players.

07-08-2006, 06:54 AM	#40
Archai Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 24	ok I am toooo curious about this subject. I did a little ladder searching. There are only like 10 brigands in the top 100 (and they are scattered). Ivakr is top 5 on ladder out of brigands (60-70) on his server. Definitely lends to credibility. 33rd on the entier server (60-70). Your not on the complete listing for all servers or on the 60-70 complete rankings.After scanning the ladder rankings completely, i don't see brigands as having a ridiculous showing on the boards. Seems if the class were so godlike it would occupy more of the top spots. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------- 70 Monk, Disciple Lell O'Ellle The Jade Tiger 50 Brigand, Oniibouchou Hentai Tentacle Demon Join the Rogue Gamewide Channel at [color:red]Kithicor.Rogue

07-08-2006, 11:04 AM	#43
Archai Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 24	The PVP LeaderboardsI knew i should have linked in the first place.Hell no I aint giving my brigands name. I am teh whackness. I am just here to state the facts. This whole thread is BS. This class is not overpowered __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------- 70 Monk, Disciple Lell O'Ellle The Jade Tiger 50 Brigand, Oniibouchou Hentai Tentacle Demon Join the Rogue Gamewide Channel at [color:red]Kithicor.Rogue

07-10-2006, 01:40 AM	#46
Archai Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 24	Cool i get last word. Once again, if brigands were "unbalanced" there would be a lot more people abusing them. So you're unhappy with how good your class is? Its potential is higher than everyone elses? You can beat anyone in 5 seconds? You're ranking is not very impressive at all compared to the other people on the leaderboards and I am not surprised other classes rank just as well (and better) in every way. I am glad your whinning about something that doesn't need to be fixed will end. __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------- 70 Monk, Disciple Lell O'Ellle The Jade Tiger 50 Brigand, Oniibouchou Hentai Tentacle Demon Join the Rogue Gamewide Channel at [color:red]Kithicor.Rogue

07-06-2006, 10:31 PM	#31
Fromingo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 536	Combine this with the fact that players are USUALLY in offensive stance while PvPing, and the Brigand can hit Brawlers and Zerks/Guardians nearly 100% of the time. I'm usually in defensive versus melee players and offensive versus caster players. I can't imagine why a brigand would want to be offensive versus a tank. Our 30% chance to interrupt is negligable vs melee types since most combat arts are super quick casts. The + to offensive skills is not enough bonus IMO to lose the defense and mitigation of defensive stance vs melee. Even tanks can put out high burst DPS and my scout HP's don't want to get hit by that. Granted the high damage tank CA's usually have a long recast but most PvP starts with fresh timers and lasts less than a minute. Therefore avoiding the fresh burst DPS of a tank is preferable to the lessened benefits of offensive stance. This is even more true of Brigand vs Scout.

07-06-2006, 11:31 PM	#32
Telr Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SC, USA Posts: 7	Quick question... Why is the OP still here...? Enjoying keeping some forum drama going? lol

07-07-2006, 06:30 AM	#34
Deeds Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 116	Here is the real answer: Fight a well equiped berserker with AAs, that knows what they are doing. You will not win you fought a [Removed for Content] Message Edited by Deedbit on 07-06-2006 07:34 PM

07-07-2006, 06:25 PM	#35
Oblivi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	When a smart brig get's the jump and lands the stun and wheels around for the mit reducing backstabs and what not... yeah. Any class will go down rather quickly. Regardless of gear/skill.But all the dps scouts can kill just about any class rather quickly.Also, there are a lot of players out there that just haven't bothered focusing on getting their health up as high as they can. As a brig I group with level 70 tanks that have less health than I do.At level 70 the devitalize/dispatch combo is nearly -5000 mit.Obviously solo pvp fights where the target in unbuffed will tend to go to the brigand when the brigand gets the jump.But to imply that just the brigand is overpowered in this capacity is untruth. There are a number of classes that will kill nearly anyone when they get the jump, many a lot more effeciently than a brigand. Hell, Rangers and Assassins can do it to players that are grouped.

07-07-2006, 06:38 PM	#36
Jeffmaster Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fellowship of Heavenly Fire Posts: 414	agreed! Assassins, Rangers, Swash all have high burst DPS.... Assassinate has DAM of up to 6000!!! Rangers have ranged attacks up to 4000 or so........ and it should be that way

07-07-2006, 09:44 PM	#37
Oblivi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Well I don't know what the delves for pvp on decapitate and sniper shot are, but comparably to brigands they are rather amusing.I know assassinate is, with the aa's, in line with 5k plus on average. Decapitate is obviously higher... Rangers same basic deal.I just wonder why so many are on a crusade to nerf brigs when we are actually relatively minor compared to other classes. (cough fusion)Heh wizzies hit for 4-5k with ice nova with good resists.I've been hit with sniper shots in the 5k range.

07-08-2006, 02:22 AM	#39
Grim0 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 58	Correction... YOU may not beat any well-played Zerker, but as I've shown, the Brigand class easily has the capability to kill them within 5-10 seconds. I never countered a Zerker that posed a threat, and I fought against all of the high level Qeynosian ones on Venekor.Other classes that have extreme damage attacks are subject to damage mitigation and long re-use timers. Brigands can easily match ranger/assassin damage vs cloth targets, and vs plate targets Brigands are clearly superior. That 6k Decapitate? Reduced to 1200 damage, if the enemy doesn't dodge it outright.On the other hand, stacking all a Brigand's defense debuffs while fighting in offensive stance gives you nearly 100% chance to hit a level 70 monk with capped avoidance. Plate tanks will have 0% avoidance and 0% mit. Even if the sum of all 6 attacks in the Double-Up dump "only" total to 4-5k damage, that's a hell of a lot more than the Assassin's 1200 decapitate which has a chance to miss.And the best part? Brigands can do it once every minute, while Assassins have to wait either 15 (10 with talents) minutes to deal inferior damage. On top of that Brigands have better survivability, better frontal damage, and extremely powerful snares. I PvPed with an assassin as my partner for a long time, so I know exactly what they are capable of... while they have their own perks, overall they just aren't as powerful as a Brigand. Dispatch + Assassinate was a really fun combo though... good for nailing bell-hoppers with a 2-shot kill before they have the chance to zone. Message Edited by Grim001 on 07-07-2006 07:21 PM

07-08-2006, 08:58 AM	#41
Xaldo General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 19	what is your brigand's char name Grim? I wanna see how well you do outside the arena.

07-08-2006, 10:27 AM	#42
Captain Apple Darkberry Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 394	Arena does not = PvPAnd the wonderful numbers essay ye posted doesn't really mean squat in the real world... ...if ye think that yer gonna be fighting the tank solo while he picks his nose, yer daft.Many classes look good on virtual paper...But I'm still calling BS on this thread and the OP. Its a veiled attempt at flexing his [Removed for Content]. Which, when the evidence is presented, seems small... If he truly wanted to leave, he would have already, if he truly wanted a challenge in PvP, its already out there waiting for him, if he could truly peel the big boy tanks like oranges, folks would know who he is.Step out of the Arena... ...the rules are different, and the "facts and numbers" are subject to being disproven.

07-08-2006, 11:44 AM	#44
Telr Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SC, USA Posts: 7	Well, what started out as a decent attempt to make a point in my eyes has now turned sour. To me the OP is just on here to perpetuate drama... Following him up makes it worse. He's made his point, it's been proven to be possible... Why continue to debate it? If you actually follow from page one to the end, most of the things that're being said now have already been said. Let it die.

07-09-2006, 10:12 PM	#45
Grim0 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 58	Archaiis, why sort the leaderboard by kill totals? Is the most skilled player in the game the one who stayed logged in 24/7 and farmed low-cons for kills? If you are looking for a gague of PvP performance you should sort it by infamy. I was previously #1 ranked Brigand across all servers, as well as #1 overall ranked on my server, infamy-wise. This was around a month and a half ago when there were only a few Masters on each server. After that point I stopped PvPing seriously because I had achieved my goal and it felt hollow. The arena fight I gave as an example was just an example. I very rarely set foot in there. All of my comments are based on real-world PvP experience.As for the lack of high-performing Brigands compared to some other classes, well, the Brigand class isn't as easy as the Assassin or Ranger class. We don't just get to walk up and hit the I-WIN button. We have to hit multiple I-WIN buttons quickly. However, a skilled Brig has more potential than either of those classes. There just aren't very many people who are skilled enough to realize that potential. It's a class that demands a lot of button mashing, but when played correctly, it is the most powerful and versatile PvP class in the game at the role of killing people while avoiding being killed. My primary point is not that the Brigand class is far superior to the other top DPS classes in pure damage output (although we definately are against plate tanks). The main point is that the brigand has all that burst damage, with no long cooldowns, extremely powerful debuffs that can turn make brawler or tank as squishy as a caster, strong damage output regardless of position, godlike snares, godlike stuns, a good ranged knockback, and the best survivability out of the scouts. It just adds up to a package that is more complete than any other scout class for PvP. I will most likely not reply to this thread anymore unless someone attempts to engage in intelligent discourse (not likely). Message Edited by Grim001 on 07-09-2006 11:30 AM

07-10-2006, 03:48 AM	#47
Snowbeard Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	I think everyone here has forgotten that Brigands suck.We've been saying this since release. One post about "how we rule" just doesn't convince me...

07-11-2006, 07:36 PM	#48
Captain Apple Darkberry Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 394	Troll... ...plain and simple. And "intelligent discourse" doesn't mean "agree with me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it!" Are brigands good? ...yes. If you know how to play it. Is "class x" good? ...yes. if you know how to play it.