My fellow Brigands, I do apologize...

Fig · 02-16-2006, 10:20 PM

On the long AR Nerf thread I posted some possible alternatives I had thought of. Page 9, about halfway down, one of my suggestions was:

************************************************** Also, if the powers that be are DEAD SET on making AR break, at least consider the way it breaks. Does it just fall off with no warning? Or shouldn't it "fade". That way we can know to head for the hills, so to speak. Spell wording might be similar to the way Lurk used to be (I sure do miss Lurk).

Amazing reflexes:Immune to AOE unless primary targetTerminates if damage takenCasts "OMG RUNNNNN!!eleven!1" on termination----OMG RUNNNNN!!eleven!1 makes target immune to AOE for 10 seconds******************************************* *******

Now we have an AR that, when it breaks, provides a small speed boost, which sounds to me a lot like "Casts "OMG RUNNNNNN! on termination".

I'm not presumptuous enough to say that *I* did this, or that they even looked at my suggestions, but it sure looks fairly similar.

If my suggestion had even the slightest effect, I sincerely apologize for even mentioning it.

Ergot Jones of Unrest

ag · 02-16-2006, 10:47 PM

wtg Ergot. You gave us FD back. SMILEY

(Intelligence Rank5 Achievement)

Fig · 02-16-2006, 11:03 PM

interesting.

very interesting.

EJ

Anoixia · 02-16-2006, 11:11 PM

there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs.

Message Edited by Arnou on 02-16-200610:15 AM

AratornCalahn · 02-16-2006, 11:13 PM

Arnou wrote:
there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs.

Oh look at that... I quoted someones post... dunno why SMILEY

Message Edited by AratornCalahn on 02-16-200610:20 AM

Anoixia · 02-16-2006, 11:15 PM

k there hidden :smileywink:

Aral · 02-16-2006, 11:57 PM

I'm seeing lots of suggestions from well intentioned brigands, some very new and not experienced at raiding, some making suggestions which are far far worse than the current implementation.

Regardless of the suggested mechanic, can we all agree that - since so many raid mobs now use the SK Caress line which is undispellable -

damage shields and manastone should not break AR?

If we can rally around this one easily defensible argument, we can hopefully give the dev's a focus and obvious solution to mitigate our reaction to the changes.

Own · 02-17-2006, 01:42 AM

seriously idc bout dmg shields, we can work around them with dispells, but for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] make manastone and vessel work with AR

Golbezz · 02-17-2006, 11:26 AM

Arnou wrote:
there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs.
Message Edited by Arnou on 02-16-200610:15 AM

The only thing I am curious about is spell quality and what it's effect is if AR would not generate any hate. Faster recast timer maybe?

Aral · 02-18-2006, 01:47 AM

Dragonmerc wrote:seriously idc bout dmg shields, we can work around them with dispells, but for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] make manastone and vessel work with AR

By far the most commonly used damage shield on mobs is the Caress line from shadowknight class. This is NOT DISPELLABLE. It is a self buff, similar to the stances or bard songs. This is the DS that we see on many major raid targets both in Live and on Beta. So no, we cannot work around them in terms of AR.

Kegofbud · 02-18-2006, 01:55 AM

It is not right at all to break on Damage shields and manastone/vessel. If this changed, I would be okay with working around it.

Golbezz · 02-19-2006, 06:02 AM

Kegofbud wrote:
It is not right at all to break on Damage shields and manastone/vessel. If this changed, I would be okay with working around it.

It seems like many share the same opinion about damage shields and manastone type items.

I don't think we should be forced into giving this up. SoE was able to figure out a way to make us not be immune to AE if we were targeted, so why could they not have applied the nerf as dropping AR in that situation when we were hit by AE due to us pulling aggro?

I suppose that type of logic is beyond SoE and would not satisfy the whiners from the other classes or the traitor from our class.....

some_perso · 02-19-2006, 09:17 AM

Umm btw guys, I've noticed this isn't mentioned much since SK mobs aren't that common, but last I checked any mob that is a SK usually has a buff that has a damage shield on it. I believe this is there stance (since the only buff I see on other fighter mobs is one of there stances) and thus all epic SK's probably have dmg shields. Atm there doesn't seem to be any or many epic SKs in t6 but they may have more in t7 (I wouldn't be suprized if the skelly dragon is an sk for instance).

verydanger · 02-19-2006, 02:27 PM

How about making it a short duration buff, something like 10 sec duration and 30 sec recast? That way we would have an advantage over other classes (since we have the worst ranged abilities), but still have to pay attention to joust calls (and pay the price if we fail it). On many fights we could stay in melee range the whole fight, on fights with more than one AE we maybe would have to joust sometimes, but still have a nice advantage over other classes.This buff could cost power, but not have hate increase or another kind of penalty. You could even have quality upgrades to this ability increase the duration, but I think the programming there gets too compliated for SoE. :p

Neue Reg · 02-19-2006, 04:05 PM

AratornCalahn · 02-19-2006, 06:00 PM

Neue Regel wrote:

Can we beat a dead verydanger instead?

kyth · 02-19-2006, 10:52 PM

Verydanger is really a Ranger or an Assassin imo. Every post he has is 100% diff then any other brigands post. i dont get it.too bad you cant /ignore peoples posts, every time i read his i am just baffled.

verydanger · 02-20-2006, 01:48 AM

Hehehe, what was so weird or wrong about that?? :pJust throwing in a suggestion for a alternative 'nerfing' of AR, if thats whats gonna happen to it. Wouldnt you rather keep it a viable option on every encounter, rather than having it work flawlessly on some and not at all on others? (these SK dmg shields you keep bringing up). Yes I know you dont want to see it changed to begin with, but currently there's every indication of that not happening.As long as the AE's come within certain intervals, you could stay in melee range the whole fight, isnt that what you want? When others joust out of AE range, you hit your buff and for a short duration your 'Amazing Reflexes' will make you dodge any incoming AE. Hit the buff too late, you get smacked. Hit it too soon, you might get smacked too. The joust is badly called - you risk to die, just like your fellow scouts.This way you WILL have to pay attention to AE's just like everybody else, you WILL want to keep your resists up, but you CAN stay in melee range if you play your toon well. Im happy, you're happy, devs are happy? ;p

02-16-2006, 10:47 PM	#2
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	wtg Ergot. You gave us FD back. (Intelligence Rank5 Achievement) __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

02-16-2006, 11:13 PM	#5
AratornCalahn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Arnou wrote: there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs. Oh look at that... I quoted someones post... dunno why Message Edited by AratornCalahn on 02-16-200610:20 AM __________________ Aratorn Not 80 but bored Brigand Runnyeye "The lack of pole-dancing-elf craftable items for houses is disapointing..."

02-17-2006, 11:26 AM	#9
Golbezz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 601	Arnou wrote: there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs. Message Edited by Arnou on 02-16-200610:15 AM The only thing I am curious about is spell quality and what it's effect is if AR would not generate any hate. Faster recast timer maybe?

02-18-2006, 01:55 AM	#11
Kegofbud Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 925	It is not right at all to break on Damage shields and manastone/vessel. If this changed, I would be okay with working around it. __________________ Choatly - 90 Defiler

02-19-2006, 06:02 AM	#12
Golbezz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 601	Kegofbud wrote: It is not right at all to break on Damage shields and manastone/vessel. If this changed, I would be okay with working around it. It seems like many share the same opinion about damage shields and manastone type items. I don't think we should be forced into giving this up. SoE was able to figure out a way to make us not be immune to AE if we were targeted, so why could they not have applied the nerf as dropping AR in that situation when we were hit by AE due to us pulling aggro? I suppose that type of logic is beyond SoE and would not satisfy the whiners from the other classes or the traitor from our class.....

02-16-2006, 10:20 PM	#1
Fig Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	On the long AR Nerf thread I posted some possible alternatives I had thought of. Page 9, about halfway down, one of my suggestions was: ************************************************ Also, if the powers that be are DEAD SET on making AR break, at least consider the way it breaks. Does it just fall off with no warning? Or shouldn't it "fade". That way we can know to head for the hills, so to speak. Spell wording might be similar to the way Lurk used to be (I sure do miss Lurk). Amazing reflexes:Immune to AOE unless primary targetTerminates if damage takenCasts "OMG RUNNNNN!!eleven!1" on termination----OMG RUNNNNN!!eleven!1 makes target immune to AOE for 10 seconds*************************************** ***** Now we have an AR that, when it breaks, provides a small speed boost, which sounds to me a lot like "Casts "OMG RUNNNNNN! on termination". I'm not presumptuous enough to say that I did this, or that they even looked at my suggestions, but it sure looks fairly similar. If my suggestion had even the slightest effect, I sincerely apologize for even mentioning it. Ergot Jones of Unrest

02-16-2006, 11:03 PM	#3
Fig Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	interesting. very interesting. EJ

02-16-2006, 11:11 PM	#4
Anoixia Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 103	there is lots of interesting tricks that can be used to still avoid those AEs with tricks and this is only on dmg shield mobs too... I am actually liking the no hate thing hopefully there will not be too many undispellable dmg shield mobs. Message Edited by Arnou on 02-16-200610:15 AM

02-16-2006, 11:15 PM	#6
Anoixia Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 103	k there hidden :smileywink:

02-16-2006, 11:57 PM	#7
Aral General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 381	I'm seeing lots of suggestions from well intentioned brigands, some very new and not experienced at raiding, some making suggestions which are far far worse than the current implementation. Regardless of the suggested mechanic, can we all agree that - since so many raid mobs now use the SK Caress line which is undispellable - damage shields and manastone should not break AR? If we can rally around this one easily defensible argument, we can hopefully give the dev's a focus and obvious solution to mitigate our reaction to the changes.

02-17-2006, 01:42 AM	#8
Own Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 71	seriously idc bout dmg shields, we can work around them with dispells, but for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] make manastone and vessel work with AR

02-18-2006, 01:47 AM	#10
Aral General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 381	Dragonmerc wrote:seriously idc bout dmg shields, we can work around them with dispells, but for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] make manastone and vessel work with AR By far the most commonly used damage shield on mobs is the Caress line from shadowknight class. This is NOT DISPELLABLE. It is a self buff, similar to the stances or bard songs. This is the DS that we see on many major raid targets both in Live and on Beta. So no, we cannot work around them in terms of AR.

02-19-2006, 09:17 AM	#13
some_perso Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	Umm btw guys, I've noticed this isn't mentioned much since SK mobs aren't that common, but last I checked any mob that is a SK usually has a buff that has a damage shield on it. I believe this is there stance (since the only buff I see on other fighter mobs is one of there stances) and thus all epic SK's probably have dmg shields. Atm there doesn't seem to be any or many epic SKs in t6 but they may have more in t7 (I wouldn't be suprized if the skelly dragon is an sk for instance).

02-19-2006, 02:27 PM	#14
verydanger Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 220	How about making it a short duration buff, something like 10 sec duration and 30 sec recast? That way we would have an advantage over other classes (since we have the worst ranged abilities), but still have to pay attention to joust calls (and pay the price if we fail it). On many fights we could stay in melee range the whole fight, on fights with more than one AE we maybe would have to joust sometimes, but still have a nice advantage over other classes.This buff could cost power, but not have hate increase or another kind of penalty. You could even have quality upgrades to this ability increase the duration, but I think the programming there gets too compliated for SoE. :p __________________ Chik, troubador of United Kingdoms (Splitpaw)

02-19-2006, 04:05 PM	#15
Neue Reg General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 49	__________________

02-19-2006, 06:00 PM	#16
AratornCalahn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Neue Regel wrote: Can we beat a dead verydanger instead? __________________ Aratorn Not 80 but bored Brigand Runnyeye "The lack of pole-dancing-elf craftable items for houses is disapointing..."

02-19-2006, 10:52 PM	#17
kyth General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 493	Verydanger is really a Ranger or an Assassin imo. Every post he has is 100% diff then any other brigands post. i dont get it.too bad you cant /ignore peoples posts, every time i read his i am just baffled. __________________

02-20-2006, 01:48 AM	#18
verydanger Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 220	Hehehe, what was so weird or wrong about that?? :pJust throwing in a suggestion for a alternative 'nerfing' of AR, if thats whats gonna happen to it. Wouldnt you rather keep it a viable option on every encounter, rather than having it work flawlessly on some and not at all on others? (these SK dmg shields you keep bringing up). Yes I know you dont want to see it changed to begin with, but currently there's every indication of that not happening.As long as the AE's come within certain intervals, you could stay in melee range the whole fight, isnt that what you want? When others joust out of AE range, you hit your buff and for a short duration your 'Amazing Reflexes' will make you dodge any incoming AE. Hit the buff too late, you get smacked. Hit it too soon, you might get smacked too. The joust is badly called - you risk to die, just like your fellow scouts.This way you WILL have to pay attention to AE's just like everybody else, you WILL want to keep your resists up, but you CAN stay in melee range if you play your toon well. Im happy, you're happy, devs are happy? ;p __________________ Chik, troubador of United Kingdoms (Splitpaw)