The one time playing a swashie sucks.

Deaudlus · 12-22-2006, 06:45 PM

I'm pretty new to swashie. Being a new player I'm still in the process of playing different classes to decide what I want to play for the long haul. Yesterday I got my swashie to 20. I was having ALOT of fun with him. Low lvls hes great fun to solo with. The 2 AOE attacks I have at the moment are also pretty sweet. Well, Seeing as how classes tend to play alot different solo then in groups I decided to get into one to see what the expirence is like. Turned on my LFG flag and got a invite for SH. Worst gaming expience of my life.Now, let me say this straight off. It didnt have anything to do with my swashie. It had to do with our tank. Playing a swashie in a group with a crappy tank is a nightmare. I swear the guy didnt know what a group taunt was. Couldnt hold agro on a single mob. Couldnt keep a mob standing in one place. I had went through the trouble to upgrade my back only attack (Viscerate I think) to adp1. Couldnt use it because he couldnt hold a mob still. Those uber AOE's? Couldnt use them because he didnt understand how to group taunt and I got aggro as soon as I launched one.. One player managed to shut down 1/2 of the abilities that make playing a swashie fun. Thankfully after about 30 mins of horror he got D/C'd and we got a monk that was gods gift to tanking. I could finally use my AOE's but I still had one problem. My back only attack. When we would pull groups of 3 or four I found it hard to get behind the mob (even more so in tight areas) to get the attack off. I tried to scroll my camera back so that I could get a better view but you can only go so far back when inside. Does anyone have any advice for this problem. Do you have issues with positioning as well?

ArivenGemini · 12-22-2006, 07:51 PM

Rollotamasi wrote:I'm pretty new to swashie. Being a new player I'm still in the process of playing different classes to decide what I want to play for the long haul. Yesterday I got my swashie to 20. I was having ALOT of fun with him. Low lvls hes great fun to solo with. The 2 AOE attacks I have at the moment are also pretty sweet. Well, Seeing as how classes tend to play alot different solo then in groups I decided to get into one to see what the expirence is like. Turned on my LFG flag and got a invite for SH. Worst gaming expience of my life.Now, let me say this straight off. It didnt have anything to do with my swashie. It had to do with our tank. Playing a swashie in a group with a crappy tank is a nightmare. I swear the guy didnt know what a group taunt was. Couldnt hold agro on a single mob. Couldnt keep a mob standing in one place. I had went through the trouble to upgrade my back only attack (Viscerate I think) to adp1. Couldnt use it because he couldnt hold a mob still. Those uber AOE's? Couldnt use them because he didnt understand how to group taunt and I got aggro as soon as I launched one.. One player managed to shut down 1/2 of the abilities that make playing a swashie fun. Thankfully after about 30 mins of horror he got D/C'd and we got a monk that was gods gift to tanking. I could finally use my AOE's but I still had one problem. My back only attack. When we would pull groups of 3 or four I found it hard to get behind the mob (even more so in tight areas) to get the attack off. I tried to scroll my camera back so that I could get a better view but you can only go so far back when inside. Does anyone have any advice for this problem. Do you have issues with positioning as well?

Stormhold is not a fun place to try and do positional attacks.. nor is it fun to do blue background AOEs... stuff may show up that you didnt know was on the other side of the wall SMILEY

Some of the rear attacks you get also allow use from the side, so you have a little play in positioning.. but in situations like that you may not have the room in which to move to get in good position all the time.. the tank should do his best to position the mobs best for the group, but in SH in some areas you just dont have that luxury... best suggestion in that case is just to do the best you can with what attacks you can do... also remembering at level 20 you -might- have a tank that is learning his job and may forget that he should position the stuff with their rear towards you...if you can figure out thats the problem a polite IM to the tank can do wonders.

BRslay · 12-22-2006, 08:11 PM

it can be hard with aoe's and new tanks. one thing that might help is to pace yourself. dont ever use both of your aoe's in a row. and of course use your dehate ability. but remeber your a swash you can take a few hits! haha

kungfuk · 12-22-2006, 10:59 PM

ld definately not judge the class at lvl 20 with a most likely new tank. There are definate work-arounds to the postitional attacks, but like the other posters said, SH isn't really the best place for AOE's and the tight corridors don't help.

It really is a fun class once you get past some of that kind of stuff.

Keyh · 12-23-2006, 04:45 AM

To reiterate everyone else, it's possible the tank was new and Stormhold is no walk in the park. Stormhold is "I feel like dying today...alot." I'm not a big fan of the corridor dungeons (Stormhold, Down Below, Crypt of Betrayl) as a swashy because it's nigh impossible to get positioned correctly.

Luk · 12-23-2006, 06:58 PM

Let me just put this straight, upto level 20 is not the only place you find "new" tanks that don't know how to taunt or keep aggro, I just blaze away, if I pull aggro, I just tank the mob and then ask the tank what he's doing after the mob is dead, tanks really really hate seeing a swashy out tank them cause they can't hold, so they normally start taunting more so they don't get embarressed, I've only ever had one tank leave a group and get all skirty about doing that.

NiteWolfe · 12-23-2006, 08:03 PM

As other have said SH kind of sucks for aoe's and a lot of new tanks learning.Question for you did you have you did you have your hate transfer buf on the tank? Not sure at lvl 20 if you have it yet or what the % is if you do. At 59 i love my swashy and tanks adore me i have my hate transfer at master1 and its 23% If the group lets me have 2 or 3s to head start on the mob its almost imposible to rip argo away from the tanks Swashy is my new main having retired for the most part my 70 zerker due to nerfage. What suprises me is that 2 boxing with my warden the swashy seems to do just as well tanking as my zerker did leveling up with a lot more dps

SageGaspar · 12-23-2006, 08:31 PM

It's funny, being a swashy with a newb tank does suck a lot in the beginning of the game, but by the end of the game swashies can make bad tanks into superstars with the aggro transfer. Just hang in there SMILEY

In the meantime I know your pain, I've been teaching loads of tanks how to body pull in Crushbone. Actually, to be honest, at level 20 being a tank is a nightmare. You don't have all your taunts, if you're a newb you probably get Apprentice IV at the max right now with the transmuting issues, but DPS classes still have pretty good attacks and scouts are packing mastercrafted poisons.

Syrano · 12-25-2006, 07:28 AM

Problems with positionals? You're a Swashbuckler! Swing from Chandaliers if you have to. Stand on tables, stand on walls, chairs, railings, cliff ledges, candles... your mothers shoulders if you have to. Relish the role! I'm constantly jumping on things to try and get that all critical positional in.The beauty of it all is, even if you can't get it in (without risking your groups neck), we still do great DPS, it's why we have a front only, amongst other things.

Llach · 12-25-2006, 12:18 PM

A group I was in consisted of Me (45 Swash), Warden, Necro, Wiz another Swash and a 47 Zerker, in Cazic Thule. It was a nightmare for the healer with the zerker dropping aggro almost every fight.He left and I took over tanking, after 15 minutes the Warden had one thing to say - Swashies make great group tanks. Barely any aggro loss, improved DPS for the group and AE's everywhere!!Now I switched to Str (4 4 4 SMILEY

Sta (4 4 4 SMILEY

and we grouped again with just a necro and life was even better.So... If you pull aggro, just carry on and shame the tank into trying harder. Not verbally, but with your ability to tank almost or better than him.

._Jammer · 12-28-2006, 09:53 AM

its your fault if you get aggro, not the tank.

you have tons of anti aggro spells, how bout using them? or how about getting them to atleast adept1 instead of ap1?

Deaudlus · 12-28-2006, 06:26 PM

Way to just come in and make a BUNCH of assumptions without asking ANY questions first or getting ANY information. "You know what happens when you make an assumption. You make a @ss out of you and umption" -Samuel L.

ArivenGemini · 12-28-2006, 07:39 PM

._Jammer_. wrote:

its your fault if you get aggro, not the tank.

you have tons of anti aggro spells, how bout using them? or how about getting them to atleast adept1 instead of ap1?

Aggro control in a group is not a competition.. it is a group effort... everyone has to pull their weight in managing it. SMILEY

Iakhovas · 12-29-2006, 08:18 PM

yeah, i agree aggro is a group effort, but even if the swashy is well equipped, with ad3 or master spells, and the tank is a newb with apprentice taunts and CA's, the swashy is gonna pull aggro no matter how many deaggro abilities and deaggro poison procs go off, playing a swashy in groups is crazy frustrating until 60+ and then its like all the sudden tanks know what they're doing.

Just stick with it because we're mad uber at high levels lol, and when our hate xfer gets higher level, it doesnt even really matter whether the tank is good or not, cus with 28% of your hate going to him, he'll hold aggro whether he wants to or not

Illyakuran · 12-29-2006, 10:35 PM

I always say I can make anyone a tank and I make a good tank better.

That said at 70 with Swarthy Disorder M1, Avoid Censure M1, Ignorant Bliss poison, and liberal use of Elude Adept 3 I can still pull aggro off of a good tank when grouping at which point I use Hideaway, return aggro, and auto attack for 10 seconds. In a group with a bad tank (at 70 tanks are either good or bad, not still in training) I usually just keep dpsing, go into defensive stance, and make the healers heal me.

Dungeon zones like Stormhold are difficult to tank due to line of sight and targeting issues and ae attacks going through walls which can pull in more mobs. As you mentioned getting behind mobs in tight areas can be problematic but at higher levels you will have more attacks and some are flanking/back or flanking/front attacks which are usable when you cannot get behind a mob. I move around a lot when fighting due to the various positional attacks. In one group myself and the other swashie in my guild were grouped with a tank that must not have been used to having rogues in his group because after awhile he asked why the hell were the two of us constantly jumping all over the place.

Tarya · 01-03-2007, 01:46 PM

Aye tank makes a big difference, when you find a good one you are one happy swashie... and one of the good classes for our aoes is zerker with their aoes.. they love to get big groups and that fits us fine *winks*. Positioning with them is not always easy since with few groups tank can't really turn them all, so it's a lot of running around... or just aoes and auto-attacks with haste (in case you don't see who the tank is swinging... hmm can imagine being a fae can be even harder to see who the tank is hitting). When you get higher lvls you get also more hate transfers and depending what AA you choose you can get even more and you don't have to worry about getting aggro... you can just swing away... if some mobs resists taunts theres always evade... and in my case feign death *grins*

12-22-2006, 07:51 PM	#2
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Rollotamasi wrote:I'm pretty new to swashie. Being a new player I'm still in the process of playing different classes to decide what I want to play for the long haul. Yesterday I got my swashie to 20. I was having ALOT of fun with him. Low lvls hes great fun to solo with. The 2 AOE attacks I have at the moment are also pretty sweet. Well, Seeing as how classes tend to play alot different solo then in groups I decided to get into one to see what the expirence is like. Turned on my LFG flag and got a invite for SH. Worst gaming expience of my life.Now, let me say this straight off. It didnt have anything to do with my swashie. It had to do with our tank. Playing a swashie in a group with a crappy tank is a nightmare. I swear the guy didnt know what a group taunt was. Couldnt hold agro on a single mob. Couldnt keep a mob standing in one place. I had went through the trouble to upgrade my back only attack (Viscerate I think) to adp1. Couldnt use it because he couldnt hold a mob still. Those uber AOE's? Couldnt use them because he didnt understand how to group taunt and I got aggro as soon as I launched one.. One player managed to shut down 1/2 of the abilities that make playing a swashie fun. Thankfully after about 30 mins of horror he got D/C'd and we got a monk that was gods gift to tanking. I could finally use my AOE's but I still had one problem. My back only attack. When we would pull groups of 3 or four I found it hard to get behind the mob (even more so in tight areas) to get the attack off. I tried to scroll my camera back so that I could get a better view but you can only go so far back when inside. Does anyone have any advice for this problem. Do you have issues with positioning as well? Stormhold is not a fun place to try and do positional attacks.. nor is it fun to do blue background AOEs... stuff may show up that you didnt know was on the other side of the wall Some of the rear attacks you get also allow use from the side, so you have a little play in positioning.. but in situations like that you may not have the room in which to move to get in good position all the time.. the tank should do his best to position the mobs best for the group, but in SH in some areas you just dont have that luxury... best suggestion in that case is just to do the best you can with what attacks you can do... also remembering at level 20 you -might- have a tank that is learning his job and may forget that he should position the stuff with their rear towards you...if you can figure out thats the problem a polite IM to the tank can do wonders. __________________

12-23-2006, 04:45 AM	#5
Keyh Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 294	To reiterate everyone else, it's possible the tank was new and Stormhold is no walk in the park. Stormhold is "I feel like dying today...alot." I'm not a big fan of the corridor dungeons (Stormhold, Down Below, Crypt of Betrayl) as a swashy because it's nigh impossible to get positioned correctly. __________________ If they ever come up with a swashbuckling school, I think one of the courses should be laughing, then jumping off something.- Jack Handey

12-23-2006, 08:31 PM	#8
SageGaspar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 964	It's funny, being a swashy with a newb tank does suck a lot in the beginning of the game, but by the end of the game swashies can make bad tanks into superstars with the aggro transfer. Just hang in there In the meantime I know your pain, I've been teaching loads of tanks how to body pull in Crushbone. Actually, to be honest, at level 20 being a tank is a nightmare. You don't have all your taunts, if you're a newb you probably get Apprentice IV at the max right now with the transmuting issues, but DPS classes still have pretty good attacks and scouts are packing mastercrafted poisons.

12-25-2006, 07:28 AM	#9
Syrano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 404	Problems with positionals? You're a Swashbuckler! Swing from Chandaliers if you have to. Stand on tables, stand on walls, chairs, railings, cliff ledges, candles... your mothers shoulders if you have to. Relish the role! I'm constantly jumping on things to try and get that all critical positional in.The beauty of it all is, even if you can't get it in (without risking your groups neck), we still do great DPS, it's why we have a front only, amongst other things. __________________ Stadic SolÃ¡thar____________________ Warden of Oasis - Profile Vestas Shadowdancer____________________ Swashbuckler of Oasis - Profile

12-25-2006, 12:18 PM	#10
Llach Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	A group I was in consisted of Me (45 Swash), Warden, Necro, Wiz another Swash and a 47 Zerker, in Cazic Thule. It was a nightmare for the healer with the zerker dropping aggro almost every fight.He left and I took over tanking, after 15 minutes the Warden had one thing to say - Swashies make great group tanks. Barely any aggro loss, improved DPS for the group and AE's everywhere!!Now I switched to Str (4 4 4 Sta (4 4 4 and we grouped again with just a necro and life was even better.So... If you pull aggro, just carry on and shame the tank into trying harder. Not verbally, but with your ability to tank almost or better than him.

12-22-2006, 06:45 PM	#1
Deaudlus Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 127	I'm pretty new to swashie. Being a new player I'm still in the process of playing different classes to decide what I want to play for the long haul. Yesterday I got my swashie to 20. I was having ALOT of fun with him. Low lvls hes great fun to solo with. The 2 AOE attacks I have at the moment are also pretty sweet. Well, Seeing as how classes tend to play alot different solo then in groups I decided to get into one to see what the expirence is like. Turned on my LFG flag and got a invite for SH. Worst gaming expience of my life.Now, let me say this straight off. It didnt have anything to do with my swashie. It had to do with our tank. Playing a swashie in a group with a crappy tank is a nightmare. I swear the guy didnt know what a group taunt was. Couldnt hold agro on a single mob. Couldnt keep a mob standing in one place. I had went through the trouble to upgrade my back only attack (Viscerate I think) to adp1. Couldnt use it because he couldnt hold a mob still. Those uber AOE's? Couldnt use them because he didnt understand how to group taunt and I got aggro as soon as I launched one.. One player managed to shut down 1/2 of the abilities that make playing a swashie fun. Thankfully after about 30 mins of horror he got D/C'd and we got a monk that was gods gift to tanking. I could finally use my AOE's but I still had one problem. My back only attack. When we would pull groups of 3 or four I found it hard to get behind the mob (even more so in tight areas) to get the attack off. I tried to scroll my camera back so that I could get a better view but you can only go so far back when inside. Does anyone have any advice for this problem. Do you have issues with positioning as well?

12-22-2006, 08:11 PM	#3
BRslay General Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28	it can be hard with aoe's and new tanks. one thing that might help is to pace yourself. dont ever use both of your aoe's in a row. and of course use your dehate ability. but remeber your a swash you can take a few hits! haha

12-22-2006, 10:59 PM	#4
kungfuk General Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2	ld definately not judge the class at lvl 20 with a most likely new tank. There are definate work-arounds to the postitional attacks, but like the other posters said, SH isn't really the best place for AOE's and the tight corridors don't help. It really is a fun class once you get past some of that kind of stuff.

12-23-2006, 06:58 PM	#6
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	Let me just put this straight, upto level 20 is not the only place you find "new" tanks that don't know how to taunt or keep aggro, I just blaze away, if I pull aggro, I just tank the mob and then ask the tank what he's doing after the mob is dead, tanks really really hate seeing a swashy out tank them cause they can't hold, so they normally start taunting more so they don't get embarressed, I've only ever had one tank leave a group and get all skirty about doing that.

12-23-2006, 08:03 PM	#7
NiteWolfe Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Clifton, Texas AKA the boonies Posts: 571	As other have said SH kind of sucks for aoe's and a lot of new tanks learning.Question for you did you have you did you have your hate transfer buf on the tank? Not sure at lvl 20 if you have it yet or what the % is if you do. At 59 i love my swashy and tanks adore me i have my hate transfer at master1 and its 23% If the group lets me have 2 or 3s to head start on the mob its almost imposible to rip argo away from the tanks Swashy is my new main having retired for the most part my 70 zerker due to nerfage. What suprises me is that 2 boxing with my warden the swashy seems to do just as well tanking as my zerker did leveling up with a lot more dps

12-28-2006, 09:53 AM	#11
._Jammer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	its your fault if you get aggro, not the tank. you have tons of anti aggro spells, how bout using them? or how about getting them to atleast adept1 instead of ap1?

12-28-2006, 06:26 PM	#12
Deaudlus Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 127	Way to just come in and make a BUNCH of assumptions without asking ANY questions first or getting ANY information. "You know what happens when you make an assumption. You make a @ss out of you and umption" -Samuel L.

12-28-2006, 07:39 PM	#13
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	._Jammer_. wrote: its your fault if you get aggro, not the tank. you have tons of anti aggro spells, how bout using them? or how about getting them to atleast adept1 instead of ap1? Aggro control in a group is not a competition.. it is a group effort... everyone has to pull their weight in managing it. __________________

12-29-2006, 08:18 PM	#14
Iakhovas Lord Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7	yeah, i agree aggro is a group effort, but even if the swashy is well equipped, with ad3 or master spells, and the tank is a newb with apprentice taunts and CA's, the swashy is gonna pull aggro no matter how many deaggro abilities and deaggro poison procs go off, playing a swashy in groups is crazy frustrating until 60+ and then its like all the sudden tanks know what they're doing. Just stick with it because we're mad uber at high levels lol, and when our hate xfer gets higher level, it doesnt even really matter whether the tank is good or not, cus with 28% of your hate going to him, he'll hold aggro whether he wants to or not

12-29-2006, 10:35 PM	#15
Illyakuran Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	I always say I can make anyone a tank and I make a good tank better. That said at 70 with Swarthy Disorder M1, Avoid Censure M1, Ignorant Bliss poison, and liberal use of Elude Adept 3 I can still pull aggro off of a good tank when grouping at which point I use Hideaway, return aggro, and auto attack for 10 seconds. In a group with a bad tank (at 70 tanks are either good or bad, not still in training) I usually just keep dpsing, go into defensive stance, and make the healers heal me. Dungeon zones like Stormhold are difficult to tank due to line of sight and targeting issues and ae attacks going through walls which can pull in more mobs. As you mentioned getting behind mobs in tight areas can be problematic but at higher levels you will have more attacks and some are flanking/back or flanking/front attacks which are usable when you cannot get behind a mob. I move around a lot when fighting due to the various positional attacks. In one group myself and the other swashie in my guild were grouped with a tank that must not have been used to having rogues in his group because after awhile he asked why the hell were the two of us constantly jumping all over the place. __________________

01-03-2007, 01:46 PM	#16
Tarya Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 91	Aye tank makes a big difference, when you find a good one you are one happy swashie... and one of the good classes for our aoes is zerker with their aoes.. they love to get big groups and that fits us fine winks. Positioning with them is not always easy since with few groups tank can't really turn them all, so it's a lot of running around... or just aoes and auto-attacks with haste (in case you don't see who the tank is swinging... hmm can imagine being a fae can be even harder to see who the tank is hitting). When you get higher lvls you get also more hate transfers and depending what AA you choose you can get even more and you don't have to worry about getting aggro... you can just swing away... if some mobs resists taunts theres always evade... and in my case feign death grins __________________ Moonbell lvl 70 Swashbuckler/Carpenter Iriwen lvl 70 Warden, lvl 60 Tailor Infinity on Lucan deLere