LU 19 changes, were these intentional

Luk · 02-03-2006, 09:19 AM

Two things I have picked up so far, any others anyone else has seen?

Cheap Shot - non heroic duration down to 2 seconds from 6 seconds, and no longer upgradable skill (I had it at adept 3, do I get my rare back?)

Admonish - Dispell effects dropped from 213 to 186 at Master 1.

could we please have a dev response as to whether these were meant to be changed, or was it accidental and will be hotfixed back to original values.

tass · 02-03-2006, 09:22 AM

swashys got some good changes in there. 1 that i saw was a lower power pool used for some type of throwing attack i think. didnt read into it to much, but the rangers got the same thing so there still higher. also there was something about arrows not being as good in dmg hurting long range dps significantly in some post. other than that i didnt see any other changes.

Luk · 02-03-2006, 10:12 AM

are you refering to this?

Hail of Steel now has a small power cost with each thrown shot. Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range.
Stream of Arrows now has a small power cost with each arrow shot. Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range.

This is an added power cost where there was none before, it was announced so I am not questioning it, the 2 points I made in the OP were not listed as changes in the LU notes, that is why I have questioned them.

Message Edited by Licit on 02-03-200603:14 PM

Delow · 02-03-2006, 10:19 AM

Cheap shot is still basically the same. It is currently a 6 second duration for standard encounters, 2 seconds for any ^ up mobs that are not epic. This really shouldnt impact too much since from what I noticed it didnt last very long on any ^ up encounters before.

I doubt we will see much of an impact from the changes to Admonish but I'm not going to speculate much since I dont have it yet SMILEY .

Success · 02-03-2006, 10:20 AM

Just remove cheap shot. It's totally 100% useless at 2 seconds and all the restrictions. It's not worth the power to cast it. Either that or change it to do something useful. 2 seconds is just totally 100% stupid. Not enough time for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

Message Edited by Successer on 02-02-200609:26 PM

Lonw · 02-03-2006, 01:37 PM

Successer, No! Bad Successer!Take away 6 second stun for soloing anything less than ^? That's it, I'm locking you outside till you calm down...Even 2 seconds is envough to stun and master strike. If they took that away, I'd delete my swash.

Morrgan_Soerenson · 02-03-2006, 05:23 PM

what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf

DonSavan · 02-03-2006, 05:43 PM

OMG where have you guys been? cheap shot is the same it has been since an update over a month ago. 6 sec stun on normal mobs, 2 sec stun on mobs with up arrows. That two sec stun is plenty of time to get a backstab off, or what i like to do is shadow slip/brazen thrust then land a few backstabs.

as for auto attack not turning off...again it's like it has been for over a month. Auto attack doesn't turn off anymore cause kitting the mob doesn't break stun anymore. the 6 sec stun on normal mobs will last all 6 seconds even with you wailing on it. Stun a mob with an up arrow and it'll only last 2 second even if you turn auto attack off.

How are you guys just noticing this now?

Carna · 02-03-2006, 07:29 PM

/nod Savantx

2 sec is plenty of time to get a backstab in. If you're not managing to get a backstab in that window you should probably consider playing something other than a Scout.

Luk · 02-03-2006, 07:38 PM

I have no problems getting a backstab off is 2 seconds, my point is, the skill description now reads 2 seconds for both heroic and non heroic.

Delow · 02-03-2006, 09:14 PM

The skill description was just improved to better explain how it works on all encounter types.If you look at the duration listed at the top of the info window it says 6 seconds and then the first description in the list just says that it stuns the target if standard or weaker. Then it says for the next description that it stuns the target for 2 seconds if target is non epic which only applies if the target is not standard or weaker.

FreaklyCreak · 02-03-2006, 09:32 PM

It doesn't matter much about the stuns just use a stun poision potion so that you randomly proc a stun and pay attention to your spell effects window and take advantage of it when it happens. My ranger and assassin friends all say they can kill solo mobs 4-6 levels higher then them in less then 5 seconds with ranged and poision combonations.

Krontak · 02-03-2006, 09:32 PM

They're right. There was no change to duration. Its been about 2 seconds for some time and not sure about you, but I can usually get off about 1 flanking and 1 direct rear shot with no problems. I can usually get a pillage (.5s) off and pull off either a lung puncture (.5s) or disheartening guile (1s) before the npc faces me again.

Syrano · 02-04-2006, 12:23 AM

Testing it easily confirms its the same as before. Cheap Shot never shut off Auto Attack. However, your attacks never broke the stun. You could keep auto-attacking, the stun would last. As far as I could tell last night, it works the exact same way.

They did reduce it to App 3 for everyone, but I saw no real perceivable change in its behavior. new scouts will no longer waste rares on it. Those of us who did, oh well, at the end of the day it was just a rare, there are more out there, and MMO economics change all the time anyway.

ilucife · 02-04-2006, 02:09 AM

rangers and assasins have the benifit of procs going off with (almost) every CA(due to long recast on some of them) and they hit ALOT hard than we do. hell a ranger and i can solo groups of clops near PoF entrance, only thing is im more of a distraction/debuffer than anything else, i hold agro and he kills em, works well but i almost die every time. ibut anywho im not going into my speal anymore about rangers.as far as cheap shot breaking stun, actually it does, but just on heroic mobs. stun works as it used to in those cases, (up to)2 seconds or next hit, and i belive poiosn breaks it too

mysticalone · 02-04-2006, 04:43 AM

umm what happened to the stealth all mine are gone is this a bug? i don't see how a swashy can execute the attacks now with no stealth?

i'm puzzled...

Luk · 02-04-2006, 04:46 AM

the stealth skill changed, now called sneak for all levels, you need to replace the icon on your hotbar, same with cheapshot.

mysticalone · 02-04-2006, 04:48 AM

okay i saw a level 6 or something this works at level 40 or 50??

Also what happened to the ae smuggle the one i used in groups (one of the few reasons a group wanted me heh okay i will go peak again...)

kinda wish they had put all this in the update notes i its like a mystery we have to solve ourselves... urggh

Message Edited by mysticalone on 02-03-200603:50 PM

TygerMeow · 02-05-2006, 12:14 PM

Am I missing something, or was the Strike line removed?

I had a macro with my short attacks and Fast Strike was one of them. Now I can't find anything like it?

Luk · 02-05-2006, 01:08 PM

what level was the skill you are refering to, everything below lvl 20 now has a new name due to the changes to class selection and progression, check your skill book for the new one.

Miracole · 02-05-2006, 03:50 PM

Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf

yeah... where have you been? the change has been out for months... do you guys ever solo?

TygerMeow · 02-06-2006, 02:13 PM

Licit wrote:
what level was the skill you are refering to, everything below lvl 20 now has a new name due to the changes to class selection and progression, check your skill book for the new one.

No, I'm saying the ability was removed entirely. I have no idea what level it was, but I don't see a replacement. The ability I was using was called Fast Strike.

It took me like 10 minutes to update all my macros after the changes. However, I never did find a replacement for the strike line and I think I'm using everything.

On a side note, one of my pet peeves about this game is a) the sheer number of abilities for non-casters and b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it.

Bishop · 02-07-2006, 08:59 AM

b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it.

If you go into your skill book and click combat arts, you can then sort by category.

I found it very helpful when working out what replaces what.

overfloat · 02-08-2006, 01:17 AM

TygerMeow wrote:
No, I'm saying the ability was removed entirely. I have no idea what level it was, but I don't see a replacement. The ability I was using was called Fast Strike.
It took me like 10 minutes to update all my macros after the changes. However, I never did find a replacement for the strike line and I think I'm using everything.
On a side note, one of my pet peeves about this game is a) the sheer number of abilities for non-casters and b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it.

There is a replacement for it. Fast Strike was introduced a few updates ago, as part of the CA line begun by Quick Strike. The CA line still exists so there is a replacement, though I can't tell you exactly what it is at the appropriate level to match the old Fast Strike because I'm not at my PC right now. I believe the early versions are now called "xxx Swipe".

As the previous poster suggested, open your Knowledge book, click the "Sort..." button in the top right-hand corner, and choose "By Category" (and I select "Across" to use the entire width of the book as a single line, rather than the default "Zigzag" ). This will group all CAs together by line, ordered by level. The CA line you're looking currently ends with Dazzling Steel, and includes Playful Swipe. The icon is a single, absurdly broad-bladed dagger (pointing to the top left-hand corner, I think) on a red background. You'll probably find it not only inflicts damage but also reduces target DPS, to match later versions of the skill (previously, Quick Strike and Fast Strike only inflicted damage, because they weren't diffrentiated between swashbucklers and brigands as later CAs in that line were).

Message Edited by overfloater on 02-07-200612:18 PM

Morrgan_Soerenson · 02-15-2006, 09:19 PM

Miracole wrote:
Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf
yeah... where have you been? the change has been out for months... do you guys ever solo?

well yes, i do... after a 3 month absence because of playing on of my other toons, i came back to my scouts, no i am back playing my mages... keeps things interestingcheersOlaf

02-03-2006, 10:12 AM	#3
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	are you refering to this? Hail of Steel now has a small power cost with each thrown shot. Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range. Stream of Arrows now has a small power cost with each arrow shot. Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range. This is an added power cost where there was none before, it was announced so I am not questioning it, the 2 points I made in the OP were not listed as changes in the LU notes, that is why I have questioned them. Message Edited by Licit on 02-03-200603:14 PM

02-03-2006, 10:19 AM	#4
Delow General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Cheap shot is still basically the same. It is currently a 6 second duration for standard encounters, 2 seconds for any ^ up mobs that are not epic. This really shouldnt impact too much since from what I noticed it didnt last very long on any ^ up encounters before. I doubt we will see much of an impact from the changes to Admonish but I'm not going to speculate much since I dont have it yet. __________________ Retired from a world that lost its wonder.

02-03-2006, 05:23 PM	#7
Morrgan_Soerenson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf __________________ no sick sigs!

02-03-2006, 09:14 PM	#11
Delow General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	The skill description was just improved to better explain how it works on all encounter types.If you look at the duration listed at the top of the info window it says 6 seconds and then the first description in the list just says that it stuns the target if standard or weaker. Then it says for the next description that it stuns the target for 2 seconds if target is non epic which only applies if the target is not standard or weaker. __________________ Retired from a world that lost its wonder.

02-03-2006, 09:32 PM	#12
FreaklyCreak Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 336	It doesn't matter much about the stuns just use a stun poision potion so that you randomly proc a stun and pay attention to your spell effects window and take advantage of it when it happens. My ranger and assassin friends all say they can kill solo mobs 4-6 levels higher then them in less then 5 seconds with ranged and poision combonations. __________________ 90 inquis/ 300 AA/ 90 Jeweler

02-03-2006, 09:19 AM	#1
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	Two things I have picked up so far, any others anyone else has seen? Cheap Shot - non heroic duration down to 2 seconds from 6 seconds, and no longer upgradable skill (I had it at adept 3, do I get my rare back?) Admonish - Dispell effects dropped from 213 to 186 at Master 1. could we please have a dev response as to whether these were meant to be changed, or was it accidental and will be hotfixed back to original values.

02-03-2006, 09:22 AM	#2
tass Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,097	swashys got some good changes in there. 1 that i saw was a lower power pool used for some type of throwing attack i think. didnt read into it to much, but the rangers got the same thing so there still higher. also there was something about arrows not being as good in dmg hurting long range dps significantly in some post. other than that i didnt see any other changes.

02-03-2006, 10:20 AM	#5
Success Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 130	Just remove cheap shot. It's totally 100% useless at 2 seconds and all the restrictions. It's not worth the power to cast it. Either that or change it to do something useful. 2 seconds is just totally 100% stupid. Not enough time for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Message Edited by Successer on 02-02-200609:26 PM

02-03-2006, 01:37 PM	#6
Lonw Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	Successer, No! Bad Successer!Take away 6 second stun for soloing anything less than ^? That's it, I'm locking you outside till you calm down...Even 2 seconds is envough to stun and master strike. If they took that away, I'd delete my swash.

02-03-2006, 05:43 PM	#8
DonSavan General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 89	OMG where have you guys been? cheap shot is the same it has been since an update over a month ago. 6 sec stun on normal mobs, 2 sec stun on mobs with up arrows. That two sec stun is plenty of time to get a backstab off, or what i like to do is shadow slip/brazen thrust then land a few backstabs. as for auto attack not turning off...again it's like it has been for over a month. Auto attack doesn't turn off anymore cause kitting the mob doesn't break stun anymore. the 6 sec stun on normal mobs will last all 6 seconds even with you wailing on it. Stun a mob with an up arrow and it'll only last 2 second even if you turn auto attack off. How are you guys just noticing this now?

02-03-2006, 07:29 PM	#9
Carna Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 515	/nod Savantx 2 sec is plenty of time to get a backstab in. If you're not managing to get a backstab in that window you should probably consider playing something other than a Scout.

02-03-2006, 07:38 PM	#10
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	I have no problems getting a backstab off is 2 seconds, my point is, the skill description now reads 2 seconds for both heroic and non heroic.

02-03-2006, 09:32 PM	#13
Krontak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	They're right. There was no change to duration. Its been about 2 seconds for some time and not sure about you, but I can usually get off about 1 flanking and 1 direct rear shot with no problems. I can usually get a pillage (.5s) off and pull off either a lung puncture (.5s) or disheartening guile (1s) before the npc faces me again. __________________

02-04-2006, 12:23 AM	#14
Syrano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 404	Testing it easily confirms its the same as before. Cheap Shot never shut off Auto Attack. However, your attacks never broke the stun. You could keep auto-attacking, the stun would last. As far as I could tell last night, it works the exact same way. They did reduce it to App 3 for everyone, but I saw no real perceivable change in its behavior. new scouts will no longer waste rares on it. Those of us who did, oh well, at the end of the day it was just a rare, there are more out there, and MMO economics change all the time anyway. __________________ Stadic SolÃ¡thar____________________ Warden of Oasis - Profile Vestas Shadowdancer____________________ Swashbuckler of Oasis - Profile

02-04-2006, 02:09 AM	#15
ilucife Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 123	rangers and assasins have the benifit of procs going off with (almost) every CA(due to long recast on some of them) and they hit ALOT hard than we do. hell a ranger and i can solo groups of clops near PoF entrance, only thing is im more of a distraction/debuffer than anything else, i hold agro and he kills em, works well but i almost die every time. ibut anywho im not going into my speal anymore about rangers.as far as cheap shot breaking stun, actually it does, but just on heroic mobs. stun works as it used to in those cases, (up to)2 seconds or next hit, and i belive poiosn breaks it too

02-04-2006, 04:43 AM	#16
mysticalone Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 103	umm what happened to the stealth all mine are gone is this a bug? i don't see how a swashy can execute the attacks now with no stealth? i'm puzzled... __________________ (\. ./) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny to your signature to help him achieve world domination.

02-04-2006, 04:46 AM	#17
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	the stealth skill changed, now called sneak for all levels, you need to replace the icon on your hotbar, same with cheapshot.

02-04-2006, 04:48 AM	#18
mysticalone Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 103	okay i saw a level 6 or something this works at level 40 or 50?? Also what happened to the ae smuggle the one i used in groups (one of the few reasons a group wanted me heh okay i will go peak again...) kinda wish they had put all this in the update notes i its like a mystery we have to solve ourselves... urggh Message Edited by mysticalone on 02-03-200603:50 PM __________________ (\. ./) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny to your signature to help him achieve world domination.

02-05-2006, 12:14 PM	#19
TygerMeow Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 152	Am I missing something, or was the Strike line removed? I had a macro with my short attacks and Fast Strike was one of them. Now I can't find anything like it? __________________ -Tyger Proud member of the Replace Research Assistants with Sammich Assistants (tm) Alliance. Stand up for your rights! Then sit down and eat.

02-05-2006, 01:08 PM	#20
Luk General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 897	what level was the skill you are refering to, everything below lvl 20 now has a new name due to the changes to class selection and progression, check your skill book for the new one.

02-05-2006, 03:50 PM	#21
Miracole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 142	Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf yeah... where have you been? the change has been out for months... do you guys ever solo?

02-06-2006, 02:13 PM	#22
TygerMeow Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 152	Licit wrote: what level was the skill you are refering to, everything below lvl 20 now has a new name due to the changes to class selection and progression, check your skill book for the new one. No, I'm saying the ability was removed entirely. I have no idea what level it was, but I don't see a replacement. The ability I was using was called Fast Strike. It took me like 10 minutes to update all my macros after the changes. However, I never did find a replacement for the strike line and I think I'm using everything. On a side note, one of my pet peeves about this game is a) the sheer number of abilities for non-casters and b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it. __________________ -Tyger Proud member of the Replace Research Assistants with Sammich Assistants (tm) Alliance. Stand up for your rights! Then sit down and eat.

02-07-2006, 08:59 AM	#23
Bishop Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hamilton, New Zealand Posts: 76	b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it. If you go into your skill book and click combat arts, you can then sort by category. I found it very helpful when working out what replaces what. __________________

02-08-2006, 01:17 AM	#24
overfloat General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 537	TygerMeow wrote: No, I'm saying the ability was removed entirely. I have no idea what level it was, but I don't see a replacement. The ability I was using was called Fast Strike. It took me like 10 minutes to update all my macros after the changes. However, I never did find a replacement for the strike line and I think I'm using everything. On a side note, one of my pet peeves about this game is a) the sheer number of abilities for non-casters and b) lines aren't exactly clear, except by the picture; so, it's very hard to tell when you get a new ability exactly that you are supposed to replace with it. There is a replacement for it. Fast Strike was introduced a few updates ago, as part of the CA line begun by Quick Strike. The CA line still exists so there is a replacement, though I can't tell you exactly what it is at the appropriate level to match the old Fast Strike because I'm not at my PC right now. I believe the early versions are now called "xxx Swipe". As the previous poster suggested, open your Knowledge book, click the "Sort..." button in the top right-hand corner, and choose "By Category" (and I select "Across" to use the entire width of the book as a single line, rather than the default "Zigzag" ). This will group all CAs together by line, ordered by level. The CA line you're looking currently ends with Dazzling Steel, and includes Playful Swipe. The icon is a single, absurdly broad-bladed dagger (pointing to the top left-hand corner, I think) on a red background. You'll probably find it not only inflicts damage but also reduces target DPS, to match later versions of the skill (previously, Quick Strike and Fast Strike only inflicted damage, because they weren't diffrentiated between swashbucklers and brigands as later CAs in that line were). Message Edited by overfloater on 02-07-200612:18 PM

02-15-2006, 09:19 PM	#25
Morrgan_Soerenson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	Miracole wrote: Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:what I noticed is, that cheap shot does not turn off autoattack... I thought they changed that... so now the mob gets stunned and the next attack gets it back on track, ah well back to macro that one :smileyindifferent:cheersOlaf yeah... where have you been? the change has been out for months... do you guys ever solo? well yes, i do... after a 3 month absence because of playing on of my other toons, i came back to my scouts, no i am back playing my mages... keeps things interestingcheersOlaf __________________ no sick sigs!