Serious Question: Ideal Raid DPS Group

[hoop]

back to the thread topic .

troub

ranger

ranger

conj

conj

coercer maybe cuz their sic dps boost and haste

you dont have to worry about a healer cuz no1 jousts.

hoopdee

 

 

 

 

[Luk]

just for some variety

Troubie

Conj

Necro

Warlock

Wizzy

Coercer

Both Conj and Necro with their fire pets out.....

OMG this would rock

[WikiView]

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Ddrak wrote:Fury gives 10 seconds of +50% dps/attack speed, and buffs intInquisitor gives permanent +30% dpsDirge gives +20% dps + cacophony of blades + procs + attack skills / strength etc etcIllusionist buffs intel, adds proc damage, and can haste permanently +47% (very nice on swash with dps boosters in place)Bruiser does good damage on thier own and they add +20% dps to groupBerserker adds str, +dps/+attack speed proc + some short duration stuff thats niceYour Ideal for making 1 Swashbuckler deal massive DPS would beIllusionist (proc, int + haste), Inquisitor (+30% dps), Bruiser (+20% dps), Dirge (skills, dps, cacophony), conj/nec/wiz for proc (this really is not much dps overall tho)That would give you permanently: +47% attack speed, +70% dps, +120 or more str, +20-30 to attack skills, + proc damage. You are basically hitting cap on haste, dps, attack skils and str, with added procs.Normally on our raids we have set up like this:MT group: 3 different priests, coercer, tank, conj/pal/bardMaster Blaster group: Conj, Nec, Wiz, Warlock, Troubador, FuryGroup Superior Range: Inquis, Ranger, Brigand, Conj, Bruiser, Assassin/Ranger (short on rangers sadly)Group Ground Pounder: Dirge, Inquis, Illusionist, Swash, Assassin, BruiserWorks out fairly well, hit 10,500 DPS as a raid last night which was our best so far.

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that must be a weak illu... my alt illu (at lvl 45) buffs atkspeed by 48% (master1) and its not the final one.. u get another one at lvl 57(?) witch buffs 67%atkspeed ftw

[Success]

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Carnagh wrote:

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Successer wrote:

I thought we were supposed to be kings of debuff?

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I don't recall this particular coronation... did I miss the invite?

You also conveniently ignore things like -35%dps debuff and -56 casting and attack skill debuff (which Brigs have no equiv. of) on the part of Swashbucklers. Or the fact that Brigands have no hate transfer. Or the Swash debuff of int/wis.... or... or... or...

You have to look at the whole picture, unless it's simply a hissy fit you're after.

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No I didn't ignore the -56 (times 7 I think), that was added in. The 35% DPS was hard to figure into numbers and I didn't figure anything like that from Brigands also.

I was comparing straight debuff numbers and I included everything listed. Now, if you can figure out how to list 35% DPS as pure debuff numbers so that it's consistent among all mobs, go for it.

Calculate it yourself if you don't like my numbers. They are pretty darn close. Even if you got EXACT, there would still be a HUGE difference.

Actually, Lung Puncture is very useful. When used, the MT is taking a lot less damage than without it. If the MT is taking 5k or so without it, when I put it on, they take about 3k or so. That helps a LOT. 35% DPS is not bad. All the others are soso and other classes can do better.

Message Edited by Successer on 02-02-200601:47 PM

[Twobox]

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Syrano wrote:

I've found some stuff here and there by running searches but nothing with a good Swash focus that's focused on this subject.  I've heard a lot of theories, not seen a lot of facts.  I'm trying to piece together what the ideal DPS group is on a raid, specifically in regards to Swashes and to a lesser degree other Scouts.

 

I'll start the discussion by stating that I'm not convinced throwing all the Rangers (go Norris!) in with the Swashies/Brigs is such a great idea.  I routinely get slapped in a group with an Inquisitor and 3-4 rangers.  As the "DPS" group.  This results in me having no attack buffs, no strength/agi buffs and no haste.  In essence, I debuff but don't worry about DPS.  As a result I routinely post pretty low numbers.  Meanwhile the rangers post their usual (they don't seem to need buffs as much).

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To REALLY get back to the original questions . . . as a Swashie I haven't found much use for group attack-related buffs. Oh, they would help increase my DPS . . . help me right to certain death lol.

All of my aggro reducers are M1, as are all of my main combat arts. The 2 or 3 CA's that aren't are Adept 3. I can *absolutely* draw aggro at any time - without anyone else's buffs - unless I have some near-zero-dps-toon (some fighters, enchanters, bards, 24th-slot-fill-toon, or in a pinch even a healer) in the group so I can dump 23% of my hate. That's my personal top priority.

And that's why the DPSers are often left without buffers. Buffing them is often useless since if they are well-tooned they likely already exceed the capability of the MT to generate aggro.

So, if you are posting low numbers because you draw aggro, your MT is really bad, and attack-buffs won't help you. If you are just posting low numbers, then you are either not-well-equipped or not playing your Toon for max-DPS.

So, my ideal DPS group is one that can minimize my hate generation, and I'm sure the other DPS-types feel the same way. That's the most effective way to increase our actual DPS. I guess that makes the Troub (Alin's Tranquil Serenade) or the Pally (Amends) the Swashy's best friend.

 

Message Edited by Twobox on 02-13-200612:05 AM

Message Edited by Twobox on 02-13-200612:47 PM

[SageGaspar]

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Twobox wrote:

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Syrano wrote:

I've found some stuff here and there by running searches but nothing with a good Swash focus that's focused on this subject.  I've heard a lot of theories, not seen a lot of facts.  I'm trying to piece together what the ideal DPS group is on a raid, specifically in regards to Swashes and to a lesser degree other Scouts.

 

I'll start the discussion by stating that I'm not convinced throwing all the Rangers (go Norris!) in with the Swashies/Brigs is such a great idea.  I routinely get slapped in a group with an Inquisitor and 3-4 rangers.  As the "DPS" group.  This results in me having no attack buffs, no strength/agi buffs and no haste.  In essence, I debuff but don't worry about DPS.  As a result I routinely post pretty low numbers.  Meanwhile the rangers post their usual (they don't seem to need buffs as much).

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To REALLY get back to the original questions . . . as a Swashie I haven't found much use for group attack-related buffs. Oh, they would help increase my DPS . . . help me right to certain death lol.

All of my aggro reducers are M1, as are all of my main combat arts. The 2 or 3 CA's that aren't are Adept 3. I can *absolutely* draw aggro at any time - without anyone else's buffs - unless I have some near-zero-dps-toon (some fighters, enchanters, bards, 24th-slot-fill-toon, or in a pinch even a healer) in the group so I can dump 23% of my hate. That's my personal top priority.

And that's why the DPSers are often left without buffers. Buffing them is often useless since if they are well-tooned they likely already exceed the capability of the MT to generate aggro.

So, if you are posting low numbers because you draw aggro, your MT is really bad, and attack-buffs won't help you. If you are just posting low numbers, then you are either not-well-equipped or not playing your Toon for max-DPS.

So, my ideal DPS group is one that can minimize my hate generation, and I'm sure the other DPS-types feel the same way. That's the most effective way to increase our actual DPS. I guess that makes the Troub (Alin's Tranquil Serenade) or the Pally (Amends) the Swashy's best friend.

 

Message Edited by Twobox on 02-13-200612:05 AM

Message Edited by Twobox on 02-13-200612:47 PM

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I actually had a question related to this. Last night I took my Swash on his first raid (Spirits of the Lost), I'm 53, MT was a 60 Guardian. I was in a DPS group with a Dirge and a Zerker, both had their melee buffs up. I started off using Adeste's and another debuff poison (I think pierce/crush) with no swarthy diversion, and I began to notice that I was pulling aggro a lot more than usual. I quickly learned that ID would be an almost instant aggro pull (used it at 10% and the mob turned on me right as it died), and using more than one or two CAs per fight continually would also pull aggro, even with Evade.Eventually we got up to one mob, I was just autoattacking and using three CAs on a loop with evades, after my second evade refresh the mob turned on me, I hit shadow slip and it flipped over to a monk, the monk feigned and it turned back to me. This seemed nuts after I had ditched all that aggro, so I ended up finishing out the raid with no DPS poison and using auto-attack and using a very, very limited CA rotation. I also put Swarthy on the healer after that, but I was nervous about doing too much damage and getting people [Removed for Content], so I just did that limited rotation. Needless to say, this wasn't terribly satisfying.I was wondering if any of this was due to the group setup and if anyone's used similar setups before without yoinking aggro. At this point I can't imagine using ID at all except to burn down a mob at the end.

[Luk]

To make a full assessment of this I would need to know what level your detaunts are at, what level the tanks taunts are at and what you group was and what the MT group was, just on the info given though, I would seriously look at the tanks ability. If you dropped slip, and it went to another toon, then back to you, the tank didn't have much aggro up.

[Ri]

If you're looking at a dps group, I'd go with bruiser, zerker, swashy, fury, dirge, and probably a brigand or assassin.

The fury mainly for the fae fire line.  Group melee proc that deals ~120ish damage every hit for 3 hits for everyone in group.  With the inq though, I wonder if the +dps increase is more than the fae line overall for the fury. . .

[Arja]

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WikiView wrote:

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Ddrak wrote:Fury gives 10 seconds of +50% dps/attack speed, and buffs intInquisitor gives permanent +30% dpsDirge gives +20% dps + cacophony of blades + procs + attack skills / strength etc etcIllusionist buffs intel, adds proc damage, and can haste permanently +47% (very nice on swash with dps boosters in place)Bruiser does good damage on thier own and they add +20% dps to groupBerserker adds str, +dps/+attack speed proc + some short duration stuff thats niceYour Ideal for making 1 Swashbuckler deal massive DPS would beIllusionist (proc, int + haste), Inquisitor (+30% dps), Bruiser (+20% dps), Dirge (skills, dps, cacophony), conj/nec/wiz for proc (this really is not much dps overall tho)That would give you permanently: +47% attack speed, +70% dps, +120 or more str, +20-30 to attack skills, + proc damage. You are basically hitting cap on haste, dps, attack skils and str, with added procs.Normally on our raids we have set up like this:MT group: 3 different priests, coercer, tank, conj/pal/bardMaster Blaster group: Conj, Nec, Wiz, Warlock, Troubador, FuryGroup Superior Range: Inquis, Ranger, Brigand, Conj, Bruiser, Assassin/Ranger (short on rangers sadly)Group Ground Pounder: Dirge, Inquis, Illusionist, Swash, Assassin, BruiserWorks out fairly well, hit 10,500 DPS as a raid last night which was our best so far.

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that must be a weak illu... my alt illu (at lvl 45) buffs atkspeed by 48% (master1) and its not the final one.. u get another one at lvl 57(?) witch buffs 67%atkspeed ftw

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Blatent Lies. At level 45 your Haste spell is level 34 Celerity which at Master 2 only buffs attack speed for 42%. At level 48 you get Legerity, our latest haste buff, which at Adept3 buffs for 49%, i believe its 52% at Master 1.

On the Subject, our DPS Group used to be purely mage based plus a Ranger.

Ranger

Illusionist

Wizard

Conjuror

Warlock

Wizard (Sometimes a Fury)

Our Wizards and Warlock are greatly helped by Transient Sentiment line which raises INT astronomically and also increases Spell level and Focus. Warlocks also have a +5 Level Spell buff. The Ranger's procs would go nuts from Dynamism and INT buffs, plus haste.

Im not too sure if this was ideal but our Raid had superb DPS.

Our MT Group consisted of:

1 Tank (Guardian)

1 Tank Buffer (Paladin)

3 Healers (Fury, Warden, Defilar)

1 MT Regen/Buffs (Dirge)

Our Tank would easily get more than 10K hit points and insane Mitigation/Resists.