assassin>swashy DMG wise?

[Warus]

i picked scout class becuz i love to play THFs, Pirates and so on. i like to do huge 1 hit DMG.

im lvl 19 Rogue about to become Swashy but i started to have my doubts about the DMG i gonna do. the highest DMG belongs to assassin.

so the question is wut r we? arn't we were suppose to be 1 hit DMG masters?

 

waiting for replies. might have to start another char in ugly and dark Freeport to make an assasin ;;

[Sant]

Well I have the feeling that an assassin will do the most damage in a single hit but the swashie will do better dps over time. Also I dont think the difference in damage will make either that much better then the other. Assassin have a slight edge in damage swashies have more utility and still do really good damage.

[Warus]

thank you for ur post

[Bannon]

Another problem with assassin is that alot more of their attacks have to be done in stealth mode I believe.  Where as once we get swashie we still have positional attacks...but alot more any position attacks.  Also, we are ALOT more adaptable to a group.  We can tank...granted...poorly...but better than a mage or healer.  We also get things such as "smuggle" which every group I've been in has loved. 

 

We definately have some advantages over Assassins....but they also have advantages over us.

[Teh]

if you are only doing one per hit you need new gear. i *hope* you are exagerating slightly. Im a swash 25 and i get invited for DPS. I only hit for 8-15ish on yellows or oranges but im constantly hitting. My daggers never stop swinging and throw in a critical hit for 30ish about every ten hits + poison hits for 25ish all the time. Mordant Goo and Mordant Strike are two good poisons to use around lvl 20. And this isnt even counting abilities. -Backstab/Unfriendly Reminder = 100+-Quick Strike = 30-50-Bludgeon = 50ish and knocks down a skelton, human or zombie type -Gouge = 70ish-Quick Flurry = 30+30ish (assuming both hits land)-Sneak Attack = 35-50ish-Flamboyant Swathe = 45ish + AoE-Circular Strike = waste of time-Distracting Blade = waste of timeand then theres things like Dirty Tricks/Flashy Trick which knocks an enemy down to his knees while lowering defense. Or pathfinder which is great to have for anything you or your party is doing. Neutralize cuts an enemies movement speed to a walking pace. Smuggle/Sneak/Smugglers Talent/Snoop all nice little treats to have. Buff up on your agility as much as you can and you should do some decent damage over time. As a Wood Elf Swashbuckler25 i have 99AGI without any buffs. I found it odd that AGI = Damage but thats what all documentation says about Scout classes so that is the main stat i look for buying gear.

[Sasandra]

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Tehhu wrote:

-Distracting Blade = waste of time

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don't see how you can think distracting blade is a waste of time, it's the upgrade to sneak attack, at lv 20 mine hits for 50-100 damage on average.

[NicolasKL]

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Sasandra wrote:

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Tehhu wrote:

-Distracting Blade = waste of time

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don't see how you can think distracting blade is a waste of time, it's the upgrade to sneak attack, at lv 20 mine hits for 50-100 damage on average.

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Same here.  It's definitely not a waste of time, especially compared to quick strike.

[kata]

"Distracting Blade = waste of time"

 

Urm.. no

 

 

 

If you want to do MORE damage over time, and sustain damage in mid-long battles, and be all around group friendly, then you want swashy. 

 

If "/sigh" you need to satisfy your epeen, and do gobs of damage in one hit, assassin is for you.

 

 

[Syrano]

Just to chime in. Distracting Blade (Adept I) does significantly more than Sneak Attack (App 3). Almost 3 times as much damage. Regularly mine hits for 120.. if the mob is debuffed I've seen hits as high as 160 with it.Sneak attack on the mobs I fight does 45-55 regularly and hits has high as 80. The beauty of it is however that both are on independant timers so USE BOTH. If I want to go full on, power cares to the wind, damage out the wazoo I smack everything I've got. Thing is, Distracting Blade and Sneak attack are almost always refreshing beofre I get through my entire array of attacks (sneak, db, quick strike, backtstab, bludgeon, flurry, that snare + dmg attack, etc.) So much so that I never use quick strike for anything but HO's anymore. I get more dmg/power efficiency out of other attacks. As to the thread topic. Not sure it matters. "Scouts" are DPS classes. All deliver it differently but our goal is to be melee damage masters, situational and positional at times yes, but nonetheless masters of melee DPS. Swashy's have more group utility spells and hence probably do slightly less DPS. But the difference is not something to worry about.

[Dillig-Apho]

 I have to tell ya Swashbucklers i think start to come into there own about 21 and up.

 

Can't remember off the top of my head what they are all called, but from stealth I start with my stealth attack and move to the back of mob and use everything I have, usually by the time I use them all uppercut is ready to use again. so there is very little time now that i am not hitting an attack skill.

 

 

I was dissappointed thru the first 20 levels but have begun to see a much better dps with all the skills I have at my disposable.

 

Can not wait for the future skills I will get   level 22 ratonga swashbuckler atm.

 

Ratonga for life!

[TitoLandrum]

Have to throw in my 2c and say that distracting blade consistently hits 100+ with adept 1 and it has a quick recover time.   In fact it's one of my most used skills.  Also, I like to start the battle with Shanghai since that hits from 70-100+ dmg and has a KD.  I was grouped with a similar level ranger last night, and throughout the course of the battle, I would do much more damage than the ranger, but he would hit harder at times.   I would say that there isn't much difference damage wise between the two. 

 

And i guess in beta the highest melee dmg was done by a swashie...ARGH!

[Criticalh]

Distracting Blade is great.

 

I've also been impressed with Quick Flurry.  Often the two hits come close (when added together) to the damage from other positional attacks.

 

When in groups, I usually start off with Backstab - Quick Flurry - Distracting Blade - Sneak Attack. (BS and QF are the openers, because they have the longest recharge timers)

 

Then use Bludgeon and Quick Strike as fillers as needed until any of the above 4 recharge.

 

But anyways, to the original poster (btw, I can't understand half of your post) the single-hit damage kings will be the nukers (mages) and assassins.  Which makes a lot more sense.  Swashbucklers do consistent, high-damage over time using quick light weapons. 

Message Edited by Criticalhit on 12-02-2004 09:08 AM

[Bannon]

I'm currently level 19 at the moment...so soon to be swashy.

 

And I've noticed that I definately out damage classes of equal level.

 

For example, a mage, levle 19 using her strongest attacks.  I'll see a 90-120 damage hit pop up from her.  WOW...huge hit...looks good.  Mean while I've done my backstab AP3 for 70-90 damage.  Ah I feel so disappointed.  Until I drop on sneak attack, which hits for another 60-80 damage.

 

Basically, in the same amount of time, I've done more damage to the mob, than the mage has.

 

 

However, the benefit the mage has over us, damage types.  We pretty much stick to slashing and piercing.  Whereas that mage will be doing electricy, or cold, or heat. 

 

 

So as I've stated before.  Every class will have it's advantages and it's disadvantages.

[TitoLandrum]

Not to mention poisons.  Mordant goo does 26+ a tick...that makes solo'n higher level mobs much easier.

[JamesFoxglo]

Another point worth mentioning is that we seem to be more power efficient than many classes.  Even constantly using specials, I rarely end a fight at less than half power, while many of my groupmates will be nearly empty.  While regen is fairly fast, this is an important considering when chain pulling or fighting a nasty boss mob that will take a long time to take down.

[Naggyba]

Yea, distracting blade is nice.Yep, I noticed lately I always end up with a lot of power and I am using my specials constantly in a fight. Of course, I regen mine back qiuckly using the good food. When we have a lot of adds though, I do run out still but, that's normal wehn you got no time to regen.I am really starting to enjoy my Swashy more and more as I level up. My Freeboot and evac I got the other day has saved our groups so much hassle getting back down to our hunting spot past all the trash and has saved us from wipeouts a lot. Those 2 skills make a Swashy really wanted in groups, along with some really nice DPS.He is really coming into his own lately.With the Trade link armor, his AC is now 1028 non buffed and I played tank one night for several hours doing giants and centaurs in TS. he did pretty good I thought and I got some good comments from the group about my tanking abilities. Of course, I loose half my good attacks and damage but, with Gibe, gouge, etc., I was able to keep agro and get agro from healers.Soloing still rough at times but...

Message Edited by Naggybait on 12-02-2004 04:03 PM

[cold_polar]

I've noticed that, if during a fight (after I've started doing melee damage), I use Smuggler's Talent it will stay on (though I won't look stealthed, the effect stays on the bar). I can constantly chain Shanghai until the encounter is over. It works even if I'm being hit. I suspect it's a bug and have sent a question about it. If it's not, however, it definitely helps raise our overall damage by adding another high damage style with a quick refresh.

[kegam]

Another quick thing about Distracting Blade, besides it doing good dmg.  It interrupts.  That's right, don't want the mob to hit your tank for a second?  Hit Distracting Blade, or bludgeon, or cheap shot.

 

Or hell, chain all 3 together and keep the mob down to 1/3 it's normal number of attacks/spells.

 

[KBB]

Hey I know.... I know.... im not even a rogue yet but ive completed the quest and currently lvl 9 scout and have a 18 Brawler/bruiser.

Im gonna be a swashy and decided to make one because I love stealthy games and I love EQ2 so I have two questions for u high lvl people.

Can we solo and do we get pickpocket.

ty for the answers.

[KBB]

BTW nothing to do with this but so far this class is much more fun than my brawler even though the scout is lvl 9 and the brawler is lvl 18.

[rioi]

I posted this on the brigand forum, thought you might wanna see what I can do at lvl 33 as a swashbucklerI am currently a swashbuckler on the Kithitor server (lvl 33 atm). I have grouped with many assassins and have been impressed by their damage. However, all of their damage is clumped into 1 or 2 stealth hits. The couple I grouped with went in and out of stealth doing attacks for 300-500 damage. Include recharge on stealth and attack, it may be going off 3 times a battle. I on the other hand, as a rogue swashbuckler, put out more constant dps. Unless I use skills such as evade and the tank knows hot to taunt well, I almost have to not use skills to keep myself from getting stuck aggro.Lets put it this way. These numbers vary with debuffs...this is if the target isn't debuffedKidney Blow app 3 (100-150 dmg)(lowers AC of target) flank attack (10 sec)Unfriendly Reminder app 3 (120-170 dmg)(lowers AGI of target) backstab (30 sec)Sneak attack adept 3..worthless adept 3 (60-80 dmg) flank attack (10 sec)Flurry of Arms app 3 (50-80dmg x 3 = around 200 dmg)(30 sec)Snap of the Wrist app 3 (50-70 dmg x 2 = around 120 dmg)(20 sec)Nimble Cut adept 1 (80-120 dmg)(stuns target)(20 sec)Playful Swipe adept 1 (70-100 dmg)(knocks down certain targets)(10 sec)False Blade app 3 (80-100 dmg)(draws a little bit of aggro)(60 sec)Undercut app 3 (50-80 dmg)(snares target)(20 sec)Now, combine that in withFeigned Bravado app 3 (increases attack rate and draws some aggro - hardly enough to get target on you. It lasts 90 secs)Flashy Trick adept 1 (lowers enemy's defense and increases hate a little bit)(10 sec)Now, ALL of these skills are combined with my normal hits. Which, I have a faysteel epee and faysteel hatchet.....which is roughly 16-24 dmg a hit. Not to mention POISONS! Which go off a lot (every other hit and on skills). These hit around 100 per tick, depending on the poison I use (I use the short duration strong ones).Now, factor in that I can Mezz quite effective, put whole group into sneak, and taunt in case of emergency (aka healer getting terrible aggro and tank is out of power).Not to mentionSmirking Defense - increases parry skill and AGIWith that on I parry almost every hit for 30 seconds.Now, back to damage. Add all those skills up and the time it takes for them to regenerate. I could chain use every one of those skills if I need to. Combine that with home-made drink and my power hardly ever goes down if I do at least a full set of skills a fight (usually a ++ mob is dead by 1-2 rounds of my skills anyways).Now, say assassin does more damage then swashbuckler. If you want to set a record for highest damage, yep, you will always be the gimpy pirate character. But you wanna last a long battle? Well, rogue (brigand OR swashbuckler) is the way to go!Sorry I had to set you straight in your facts.

[DarkCro]

Another thing about Distracting Blow that you guys may not have noticed is that it also has a Disruption to it.

 

If a Caster mob is casting and you hit with Distracting Blow, it automatically interupts their casting which is nice.

[KBB]

Can swashys solo and when do we get pickpocket plz help.

[kegam]

everyone can solo, and there's no pickpocket.

[Vaelorn]

It may or may not be worth much to this thread, but I'll add it to the pile anyway.  Here's a little insight into how I play my level 21 Ranger in a group.  At this level, he's virtually the same as an Assassin.

 

The tank pulls a mob, and I try to start my attacks with Wounding Arrow, because if it hits it will lower the mobs parry and defense, making it easier for us to smack it around.  If I have good position I'll follow with Backshot (Predator skill, Assassins have this too), though sometimes the tank won't have enough agro and this will pull a mob to me, so I have to be careful with it (loving my makeshift carbonite arrows!).  After that I step up into melee range and start working my specials.  I may or may not trigger a quick HO, because I usually start my melee with Dirty Tricks (Coin to advance HO, lowers defense on mob) and Impale (Dagger to complete HO, high damage, lowers piercing defense), so I might as well try for a Ringing Blow.  After that, the flank attacks begin.  I start with Sneak Attack, then Shrouded Strike (Predator skill, sneak attack + sneak) and turn off auto-attack so I won't break the Shroud, then fire off Shadowblade (Predator skill, very high damage flank attack from hidden position, 60 second refresh), then turn off auto-attack again while I use Stalk (Predator skill, lowers my agro with target and puts me into sneak), setting me up for a nice Ambush.  If I think the fight will be pretty drawn out, I'll try to conserver my power, so I just wait for Sneak Attack to pop back up, then I use Sneak Attack, Shrouded Strike, and Ambush, over and over, until the mob is dead or I need to use a different special.  Sometimes I'll drop an Evade after the first barrage, in the hopes of losing some of that monster agro that I built up with all of those high damage attacks.  I try to stay away from Pierce, Bleed, and especially Impale, because they tend to have much worse damage-to-power ratios for me.  Why would I spend 37 power on Impale (20 second refresh) to do 65-100 damage, when I could spend 18 power on Sneak Attack for 50-60 damage and follow it immediately with a Shrouded Strike for another 60 damage and set me up for an Ambush, yet another cost-effective attack, all with 10 second timers?  It basically boils down to whether I want to do "burst" damage, or "cruise" damage.  :smileywink:

 

Here's a question for you rogue types.  At level 21, what was your average damage with Backstab Adept 1?  Since it has a refresh of 30 seconds, two of those Backstabs would be comperable to one Shadowblade.  The restrictions would even out the two:  Backstab requires you to be *directly* behind the target, and Shadowblade requires you to be hidden, which is not that hard for a Predator to do during combat.  I think my highest hit with Shadowblade so far was 301 damage at level 21, with my average hits in the mid 200s somewhere (using Willow Wood Hunting Blade).  Are you consistantly getting 125-150 damage from each consecutive Backstab at level 21?

[kegam]

I only have the app II version of backstab so far (gotta find the adept for sale).  At level 22, with app II I'll hit for about 100.  It's really dependent on the mob though, and if it's been debuffed.  The worst I've seen is 62 (orange ++ mob with no debuffs on it), to the best I've seen at 134.

 

[rioi]

I am constantly doing skills that do 100-150 damage a pop, you have to be stealthed for yours which eats up time. Everytime you hit stealth I am doing another attack, so it evens out. Plus a lot of my attacks debuff.Lets not argue predator/rogue...lets talk about nerfing bards and their overpower they have over other scouts in groups.

[Enkan]

From what I have read due to the timer on the Assassin skills they are considered a the 'High Damage Burst' class while the Swashy is considered the 'Constant DPS' class.

 

In the end they should both = in DPS.

 

The reason u see all over the eq2player.com site that Assassin is the highest melee hitter is because of their Burst DpS skill.

 

 

[Naggyba]

Yea, I wish someone made a log parser for EQ2, would love to see what kind of damage I do.

[perrogoma]

even before i had adept 3 distracting blade it wasn't a waste of time, when tanks pull monsters in, do shanghai - unfriendly reminder - quick flurry - distracting blade.

 

both my distracting blade and quick flurry are adept 3, so thats 4 150+ dmg attacks right away, and once i get an adept 3 of snap of the wrist, it will be even more than that, maybe if your distracting blade is still apprentice 1,  but anything higher than that, its easily one of the top skills between 20-30 with its 10 second time.