Information Please. - Page 2

Mary the Prophetess · 10-27-2005, 09:44 PM

Lake Nerius is one of the many 'missing' zones [like The Unkempt Woods, Elizarian Lake or The Loping Plains].

The map in EQ Online Adventures shows an island in the middle of Lake Nerius, whereas the orginal map for EQ Live does not.

However none of this is of much use as to WHY the map is there, or why (apparently), there is a duplicate map in the Dockmaster's office in East Freeport.

Anzak · 10-27-2005, 09:58 PM

It is possible the dock master is looking for something and thinks this old map is the key to its location. As for a copy being in nek forest I would go out on a limb and say that it was one of the dock master's agents who go killed while in the forest. Now how the two tie together and what the dock master was looking for is still a bit of a mystery.

thesilverf · 10-28-2005, 06:54 PM

This map is also the map on the War Room table in the Clefts of Rujark. You have to grab it for a blades faction quest.

It'd be neat if there were some connection to all these maps. Of course it could just be their favorite map to put in game.

Redbed · 10-30-2005, 10:59 AM

I dont think its an ancient map but a simple map. There were only a few things the person making the map was interested in. City of Freeport, A lake with a bit of land west of the North shore and Lastly the Dervish Ship. The rest is just decoration. Hills and Trees to flesh it out . The path to the orc lands in the south. That map aint old it's just simple. Made either to remind someone of something or to keep information out of the wrong hands. I mean the Crossroads have been a feature for forever but its barely shown on the map other then as diverging roads.

I think its just a graphic they use, if it does have any meaning its lost on me.

Shalhassan · 11-02-2005, 09:27 AM

Ok... kinda going to contradict myself here, but two ideas

1) if any of you have the old school map that came with the everquest trilogy and some of the later expansions, if you look at Rivervale, it is actually shown in a crater like place, so the crater on the map may be Rivervale

Now the contradiction comes

2) The forest close to the center in the north cant be kith, but if you remember there was a large mountain range which surrounded most of kith, so the enterance to kith may be to the west just above the crater.

If either is the case the other cant be true. And if the first is true, its completely missing out kith... but thats the only explanation i can think of for the crater if it is indeed CL, which i'm still not 100% sold on

Shalhassan · 11-02-2005, 09:32 AM

Another thought just occured to me in looking at the old map and the SS, it could even be a map of the new odus. The crater could be the hole, the town could be erudin, the forest could be toxxulia, and the beach could be the barren coast (which is on the map but was never a zone) The main area could be stonebrunt mountains.

It doesnt make much sense from memory of the zones, but if you take the old map and hold it so that East is now north (faydwer on the top, odus on the bottom) it actually works, and the pond in it could be something new there.

My vote goes that it is the post-shattering Odus

SpryYoungE · 11-07-2005, 07:06 PM

We already know where Rivervale is. There isn't anything east of it.

Redbed · 11-14-2005, 09:58 AM

This is definatly a map of the Common Lands, I found a copy on a table at a dervish camp about 100 yards away from their HQ on the Landship in Commonlands. The object in the lower left is their land ship. Head out there and take a look for youself. The lake in the upper right I cant explain. It could be an old lake that dried up or during the shattering was raised higher then sea level and drained out to sea cutting the path where the blackshiields now roam.

But its definatly commonlands.

Lorique · 11-22-2005, 01:48 AM

Could that lake in the upper right be the dog pond? I always forgot about that place.

Anyway, another thought is that The Rending and The Shattering were two different things, both took time to happen. Could this map be after the rending and before the shattering, or something along those lines?

Vhalen · 11-22-2005, 06:27 AM

The map is an old one, made sometime after the Age of Turmoil. Why would the all the orc clans be interested in an old map of the Commonlands? The landscape has changed quite a bit since the Age of Cataclysms.

Mary the Prophetess · 11-22-2005, 06:56 AM

Hmmm,

curiouser and curiouser.

[picks up her map again, and looks closer]

Fraenhawk · 11-22-2005, 06:29 PM

Here's a far out there guess. If the orcs don't care about the commonlands, what about the Crushbone Orcs and Faydwer? When I look at that map I get the impression that the city looking thing in the bottom right is Felwithe, the city on the far left could be Kaladim, the woods in the center are Kelethin's tree city. The mountains at the bottom could be the Steamfonts, the lake is the only tricky part, but there was a water system in Crushbone, maybe it overflowed SMILEY

pera · 11-22-2005, 07:31 PM

Well in the orginal lore of Eq2 when it first came out during the shattering, wasnt the orcs the onces that stormed the commanlands trying to take out freeport ? It could explain why they would have a map of it before the shattering. (hehe but its a magical map that last 500 years :-p) But now why would the same map be out in the Clefts you got me, except for maybe scince they where banished from the commonlands for the most part, that is the only referance they have to go by, because they dont have anyone to make them new maps.

Mary the Prophetess · 11-22-2005, 07:54 PM

Here are some observations, speculations, and questions; [so take them for what they are worth]

Two possibilities:

1.) The map has no significance to in-game events what-so-ever, and is just another piece of the background mosaic, like mushrooms, or the odd set of bones, or ruins lying about.

2.) The map has some significance beyond mere decoration.

Speculation:

Because the same identical map is found in several different locations, it indicates, (at least to these aged eyes), that there is something here beyond just an artist's decorative effect.

Additionally, a chance comment by a designer, (true, it may be just a little injection of mystery into this thread, and be nothing more than a 'red herring', but I seriously doubt it), seems to lend creedence to the theory that the map has some significance related to in-game events.

Conclusion:

There is more here than meets the eye, and additional clues should be sought at the various locations where the map has been found.

Questions:

Is there any common factor that may connect those different locations? Are there any NPCs associated with this map, and if so, what tale do they tell?

Are there any NPCs encountered anywhere else that give any information (or ask for any information) concerning maps?

Are there any clues in the body of lore concerning the Antonican Orcish Clans that may relate to this map?

.

Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-22-2005 06:55 AM

Nahlis · 11-22-2005, 08:37 PM

Can you say specifically where in Nektulos this map is found? Curious to look around the location and already planning a trip back to the Clefts War-Room. Coords would be ideal. :smileywink:

Mary the Prophetess · 11-22-2005, 09:30 PM

Coming in from the commanlands, as you take the river path north (roughly parallel to where Queen Thayilia is located but to the west of her on the other side of the hills) About in the vicinity of -400 / -250. (up against the hill).

.

Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-22-2005 08:31 AM

Ktok · 11-22-2005, 10:28 PM

Oddly enough, the first picture where the map is upside down looks a lot like the old EQ1 map of Faydwer.

http://eq.ogaming.com/data/2329~map-faydwer.php

The lake with the island in the middle would be Dagnor's and the city on the left (of the upside down map) would be Kaladim. Felwith would be somewhere around the "hole" or crater, something my high elf playing friends would be most upset about.

xentavius · 11-23-2005, 02:26 AM

Interesting thread. I never played EQ 1 but do enjoy the lore tie-ins from this game. I was recently reinstalling the game and happen to glance at my screen during install and noticed a zone called 'Befallen'. With an almost 60 conjuror, I figured I've seen every zone in the installation files except 'Befallen'. I thought I read in this thread someone mentioning that zone being a possible match. Can someone fill me in on the zone from EQ 1 and if the map fits or not?

Mary the Prophetess · 11-23-2005, 02:39 AM

Befallen was an undead dungeon located in the Commonlands in EQ1.

When EQ2 was being developed, the designers decided to 'update' Befallen for use as a dungeon in EQ2 as well.

However, (apparently after the graphic artists had already completed their work for the 'new' Befallen), a decision was made to 'change' it into the dungeon of Stormhold (which had not existed in EQ1), and move the already completed 'Befallen' to Antonica, keeping all the artwork and layout from the original Befallen, and simply changing the name to Stormhold.

The substitution was less than perfect, and it was rather obvious what the developers had done. They even kept the file name as Befallen, which is why you saw it when loading.

There is an extensive discussion on the subject on the previous pages of this forum here:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=5279

and here.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=4446

xentavius · 11-23-2005, 02:59 AM

Ah I see, thanks! (Didn't mean to stir up the Befallen/Stormhold can o' worms again) A friend has a perfectly reasonable explanation for the map and a dev post.... It's setup for a future expansion pack =) Was the map in EF and Nek BEFORE the DoF expansion?

Mary the Prophetess · 11-23-2005, 03:00 AM

Was the map in EF and Nek BEFORE the DoF expansion?

Yes.

pera · 11-23-2005, 08:18 PM

hmmm... interesting. There really seems to be a trend with this. Is anyone able to compile a list of all the locations that this map is found. So far I have heard people say: + Nek, EF, Clefts, and on a guys table in FP. The only thing i could think all of these have to do with each other is Orcs, but there are no orcs in EF though.... Freeport and the orcs have always been enemies since the start of EQ lore, except for the guy that sells the pickels in fp. If looking at the map in the lower right hand conner just above the (sand) you can see little square drawings, that i'm goign to guess are to represent some type of buildings (city). The only thing in game ATM that even comes close to representing what is one this map would be the Commonlands and nek forest But what that crater represents, you've got me. Was/is there any other race of mobs that alliaed with the orcs ?

Message Edited by perano on 11-23-2005 07:19 AM

Mary the Prophetess · 11-23-2005, 10:01 PM

Ogres were also allied with the Orcs in the past, although I am not sure the word 'allied' applys. I believe, that the Orcs were at one time enslaved by the Ogres, but I will have to look it up.

Orcs do seem to have some significance for this though.

Let us list the Orcish Clans that we know of from EQ1 and EQ2, and their locations and factions:

EQ1:

Faydwere:

1. Crushbone Orcs

Antonica:

1. Deathfist Orcs [Interesting that this clan survived into EQ2, and established themselves on Zek]

2. 'Desert' Orcs [listed as simply 'Orc' in Illia's] [Presumably the same caln as the Rujarkian Orcs]

3. Shralock Orcs

4. Snow Orcs/Icy Orcs

Velious:

1. RyGorr Orcs

EQ2:

Commonlands:

1. Bloodskull Orcs

Zek: [What used to be Surefall Glade, The JaggedPine Forest, and Nedaria's Landing in EQ1]

1. Deathfist Orcs [This clan was located in the Commonlands in EQ1]

A. Vallon Zek Orcs

B. Tallon Zek Orcs

C. Sullon Zek Orcs

Wailing Caves:

1. Ree Orcs

Desert of Flames: [What used to be Northern and Southern Deserts of Ro, and the Oasis of Marr]

1. Rujarkian Orcs

It would seem that The Bloodskull Clan and the Deathfist Clan, especially, should be examined more closely.

.

Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-23-2005 09:15 AM

thesilverf · 11-23-2005, 11:20 PM

There are Crushbone Orcs in the Clefts too.

Cusashorn · 11-23-2005, 11:23 PM

Nah. In EQlive the ogres have always been KOS to all the orc clans regardless. The Dark Elves had a pact with the Crushbone orcs, and so dark elves were Dubious to the Crushbone Orcs while everyone else is KOS.

Mary the Prophetess · 11-23-2005, 11:42 PM

*Thinks outloud*

"What is the purpose of a map?"

"To measure distance, to show relationships between locations, to find one's way....."

"What is the purpose of an 'old' map?"

"To show where things once were located, which are no longer known, to show how the shape of the lands have changed...."

"What motivates Orcs?"

"Power, fear, greed..."

"What was on old maps that is missing from new maps?"

"Druid Rings, Wizard Spires, Dervish Camps, Befallen, the Tunnel entrance to the Deserts of Ro ..."

"What are the Orcs searching for?"

Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-23-2005 11:37 AM

KindredHeart · 11-23-2005, 11:55 PM

I think it's a cute thread, but I've seen this map used in so many places I took it for SOE's default "map goes here" graphic. I honestly don't believe it means anything, well I believe it *didn't mean anything* until possibly this thread was started and noticed. Now I guess they might retro-fit a quest around it. But seriously, have you noticed how many instanced zones, and random other locations this exact map shows up - it's all over the place. It didn't seem to mean anything more than a scroll on a bookshelf or a book in a library. They do actually have graphics for random room items.

Now the fact that you saw this map just lying around on the ground, and not on a table or in a room somewhere...okay that part I'll give you has merit. But without being able to see the surrounding area where you took the picture I can't say for certain.

Message Edited by KindredHeart on 11-23-2005 12:57 PM

Mary the Prophetess · 11-24-2005, 12:10 AM

Well, that thought has occurred to me (as well as several others) too. This may very well be nothing more than a 'red herring'.

However the fact that a game designer did respond ,(in a somewhat cryptic manner), to the thread may mean there 'might' be something here to look closer at.

/shrugs

It may be fun to speculate even if there is nothing here but a piece of the background art.

thesilverf · 11-24-2005, 12:29 AM

Well, as far as speculation goes, they are all found in places that the Rallosian Army would have been during the wars. Orcs destorying Halas dropped one...

Ogres on the way to the Commonlands dropped a couple...

The one in Freeport was taken as a souvenir after the Green Mist parted...

The Orcs in the clefts are reviewing it to plan again and see what went wrong?

Is that too long ago for the maps just to have survived laying around on the ground?

Or... Are they out now with old maps trying to find the immense treasure the army must have accrued, summarily lost upon their defeat...

pera · 11-24-2005, 12:35 AM

The one in Nek since it is just lieing on the ground could of been droped by a Orc scout as it was returning to the commonlands to gather new information about that has changed to plan for a new attack. The rest since they are actualy in the possesion of someone the maps defiently could of survived the long years, but the one on the ground i would think would of had to of been droped by a orc orge recently. (in a lore aspect of the game)

Message Edited by perano on 11-23-2005 11:36 AM

10-30-2005, 10:59 AM	#34
Redbed Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 357	I dont think its an ancient map but a simple map. There were only a few things the person making the map was interested in. City of Freeport, A lake with a bit of land west of the North shore and Lastly the Dervish Ship. The rest is just decoration. Hills and Trees to flesh it out . The path to the orc lands in the south. That map aint old it's just simple. Made either to remind someone of something or to keep information out of the wrong hands. I mean the Crossroads have been a feature for forever but its barely shown on the map other then as diverging roads. I think its just a graphic they use, if it does have any meaning its lost on me. __________________ The bruiser with 100% more confrentation in every post Alexyi the Bruiser Nekultos Server.

11-07-2005, 07:06 PM	#37
SpryYoungE Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	We already know where Rivervale is. There isn't anything east of it. __________________

11-14-2005, 09:58 AM	#38
Redbed Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 357	This is definatly a map of the Common Lands, I found a copy on a table at a dervish camp about 100 yards away from their HQ on the Landship in Commonlands. The object in the lower left is their land ship. Head out there and take a look for youself. The lake in the upper right I cant explain. It could be an old lake that dried up or during the shattering was raised higher then sea level and drained out to sea cutting the path where the blackshiields now roam. But its definatly commonlands. __________________ The bruiser with 100% more confrentation in every post Alexyi the Bruiser Nekultos Server.

11-22-2005, 06:27 AM	#40
Vhalen Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	The map is an old one, made sometime after the Age of Turmoil. Why would the all the orc clans be interested in an old map of the Commonlands? The landscape has changed quite a bit since the Age of Cataclysms. __________________ ------ Tony "Sir Lucan" Garcia EQII Game Designer

11-22-2005, 07:31 PM	#43
pera Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 433	Well in the orginal lore of Eq2 when it first came out during the shattering, wasnt the orcs the onces that stormed the commanlands trying to take out freeport ? It could explain why they would have a map of it before the shattering. (hehe but its a magical map that last 500 years :-p) But now why would the same map be out in the Clefts you got me, except for maybe scince they where banished from the commonlands for the most part, that is the only referance they have to go by, because they dont have anyone to make them new maps. __________________ - Igus 70 Dirge, Second Dawn Best Quote Ever: "BREAKING: New York subways smell funny"

10-27-2005, 09:44 PM	#31
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Lake Nerius is one of the many 'missing' zones [like The Unkempt Woods, Elizarian Lake or The Loping Plains]. The map in EQ Online Adventures shows an island in the middle of Lake Nerius, whereas the orginal map for EQ Live does not. However none of this is of much use as to WHY the map is there, or why (apparently), there is a duplicate map in the Dockmaster's office in East Freeport.

10-27-2005, 09:58 PM	#32
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	It is possible the dock master is looking for something and thinks this old map is the key to its location. As for a copy being in nek forest I would go out on a limb and say that it was one of the dock master's agents who go killed while in the forest. Now how the two tie together and what the dock master was looking for is still a bit of a mystery.

10-28-2005, 06:54 PM	#33
thesilverf General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 134	This map is also the map on the War Room table in the Clefts of Rujark. You have to grab it for a blades faction quest. It'd be neat if there were some connection to all these maps. Of course it could just be their favorite map to put in game.

11-02-2005, 09:27 AM	#35
Shalhassan Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	Ok... kinda going to contradict myself here, but two ideas 1) if any of you have the old school map that came with the everquest trilogy and some of the later expansions, if you look at Rivervale, it is actually shown in a crater like place, so the crater on the map may be Rivervale Now the contradiction comes 2) The forest close to the center in the north cant be kith, but if you remember there was a large mountain range which surrounded most of kith, so the enterance to kith may be to the west just above the crater. If either is the case the other cant be true. And if the first is true, its completely missing out kith... but thats the only explanation i can think of for the crater if it is indeed CL, which i'm still not 100% sold on

11-02-2005, 09:32 AM	#36
Shalhassan Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	Another thought just occured to me in looking at the old map and the SS, it could even be a map of the new odus. The crater could be the hole, the town could be erudin, the forest could be toxxulia, and the beach could be the barren coast (which is on the map but was never a zone) The main area could be stonebrunt mountains. It doesnt make much sense from memory of the zones, but if you take the old map and hold it so that East is now north (faydwer on the top, odus on the bottom) it actually works, and the pond in it could be something new there. My vote goes that it is the post-shattering Odus

11-22-2005, 01:48 AM	#39
Lorique Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7	Could that lake in the upper right be the dog pond? I always forgot about that place. Anyway, another thought is that The Rending and The Shattering were two different things, both took time to happen. Could this map be after the rending and before the shattering, or something along those lines?

11-22-2005, 06:56 AM	#41
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Hmmm, curiouser and curiouser. [picks up her map again, and looks closer]

11-22-2005, 06:29 PM	#42
Fraenhawk Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 24	Here's a far out there guess. If the orcs don't care about the commonlands, what about the Crushbone Orcs and Faydwer? When I look at that map I get the impression that the city looking thing in the bottom right is Felwithe, the city on the far left could be Kaladim, the woods in the center are Kelethin's tree city. The mountains at the bottom could be the Steamfonts, the lake is the only tricky part, but there was a water system in Crushbone, maybe it overflowed

11-22-2005, 07:54 PM	#44
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Here are some observations, speculations, and questions; [so take them for what they are worth] Two possibilities: 1.) The map has no significance to in-game events what-so-ever, and is just another piece of the background mosaic, like mushrooms, or the odd set of bones, or ruins lying about. 2.) The map has some significance beyond mere decoration. Speculation: Because the same identical map is found in several different locations, it indicates, (at least to these aged eyes), that there is something here beyond just an artist's decorative effect. Additionally, a chance comment by a designer, (true, it may be just a little injection of mystery into this thread, and be nothing more than a 'red herring', but I seriously doubt it), seems to lend creedence to the theory that the map has some significance related to in-game events. Conclusion: There is more here than meets the eye, and additional clues should be sought at the various locations where the map has been found. Questions: Is there any common factor that may connect those different locations? Are there any NPCs associated with this map, and if so, what tale do they tell? Are there any NPCs encountered anywhere else that give any information (or ask for any information) concerning maps? Are there any clues in the body of lore concerning the Antonican Orcish Clans that may relate to this map? . Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-22-2005 06:55 AM

11-22-2005, 08:37 PM	#45
Nahlis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 171	Can you say specifically where in Nektulos this map is found? Curious to look around the location and already planning a trip back to the Clefts War-Room. Coords would be ideal. :smileywink: __________________

11-22-2005, 09:30 PM	#46
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Coming in from the commanlands, as you take the river path north (roughly parallel to where Queen Thayilia is located but to the west of her on the other side of the hills) About in the vicinity of -400 / -250. (up against the hill). . Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-22-2005 08:31 AM

11-22-2005, 10:28 PM	#47
Ktok Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 51	Oddly enough, the first picture where the map is upside down looks a lot like the old EQ1 map of Faydwer. http://eq.ogaming.com/data/2329~map-faydwer.php The lake with the island in the middle would be Dagnor's and the city on the left (of the upside down map) would be Kaladim. Felwith would be somewhere around the "hole" or crater, something my high elf playing friends would be most upset about.

11-23-2005, 02:26 AM	#48
xentavius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	Interesting thread. I never played EQ 1 but do enjoy the lore tie-ins from this game. I was recently reinstalling the game and happen to glance at my screen during install and noticed a zone called 'Befallen'. With an almost 60 conjuror, I figured I've seen every zone in the installation files except 'Befallen'. I thought I read in this thread someone mentioning that zone being a possible match. Can someone fill me in on the zone from EQ 1 and if the map fits or not?

11-23-2005, 02:39 AM	#49
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Befallen was an undead dungeon located in the Commonlands in EQ1. When EQ2 was being developed, the designers decided to 'update' Befallen for use as a dungeon in EQ2 as well. However, (apparently after the graphic artists had already completed their work for the 'new' Befallen), a decision was made to 'change' it into the dungeon of Stormhold (which had not existed in EQ1), and move the already completed 'Befallen' to Antonica, keeping all the artwork and layout from the original Befallen, and simply changing the name to Stormhold. The substitution was less than perfect, and it was rather obvious what the developers had done. They even kept the file name as Befallen, which is why you saw it when loading. There is an extensive discussion on the subject on the previous pages of this forum here: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=5279 and here. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=4446

11-23-2005, 02:59 AM	#50
xentavius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	Ah I see, thanks! (Didn't mean to stir up the Befallen/Stormhold can o' worms again) A friend has a perfectly reasonable explanation for the map and a dev post.... It's setup for a future expansion pack =) Was the map in EF and Nek BEFORE the DoF expansion?

11-23-2005, 03:00 AM	#51
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Was the map in EF and Nek BEFORE the DoF expansion? Yes.

11-23-2005, 08:18 PM	#52
pera Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 433	hmmm... interesting. There really seems to be a trend with this. Is anyone able to compile a list of all the locations that this map is found. So far I have heard people say: + Nek, EF, Clefts, and on a guys table in FP. The only thing i could think all of these have to do with each other is Orcs, but there are no orcs in EF though.... Freeport and the orcs have always been enemies since the start of EQ lore, except for the guy that sells the pickels in fp. If looking at the map in the lower right hand conner just above the (sand) you can see little square drawings, that i'm goign to guess are to represent some type of buildings (city). The only thing in game ATM that even comes close to representing what is one this map would be the Commonlands and nek forest But what that crater represents, you've got me. Was/is there any other race of mobs that alliaed with the orcs ? Message Edited by perano on 11-23-2005 07:19 AM __________________ - Igus 70 Dirge, Second Dawn Best Quote Ever: "BREAKING: New York subways smell funny"

11-23-2005, 10:01 PM	#53
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Ogres were also allied with the Orcs in the past, although I am not sure the word 'allied' applys. I believe, that the Orcs were at one time enslaved by the Ogres, but I will have to look it up. Orcs do seem to have some significance for this though. Let us list the Orcish Clans that we know of from EQ1 and EQ2, and their locations and factions: EQ1: Faydwere: 1. Crushbone Orcs Antonica: 1. Deathfist Orcs [Interesting that this clan survived into EQ2, and established themselves on Zek] 2. 'Desert' Orcs [listed as simply 'Orc' in Illia's] [Presumably the same caln as the Rujarkian Orcs] 3. Shralock Orcs 4. Snow Orcs/Icy Orcs Velious: 1. RyGorr Orcs EQ2: Commonlands: 1. Bloodskull Orcs Zek: [What used to be Surefall Glade, The JaggedPine Forest, and Nedaria's Landing in EQ1] 1. Deathfist Orcs [This clan was located in the Commonlands in EQ1] A. Vallon Zek Orcs B. Tallon Zek Orcs C. Sullon Zek Orcs Wailing Caves: 1. Ree Orcs Desert of Flames: [What used to be Northern and Southern Deserts of Ro, and the Oasis of Marr] 1. Rujarkian Orcs It would seem that The Bloodskull Clan and the Deathfist Clan, especially, should be examined more closely. . Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-23-2005 09:15 AM

11-23-2005, 11:20 PM	#54
thesilverf General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 134	There are Crushbone Orcs in the Clefts too.

11-23-2005, 11:23 PM	#55
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Nah. In EQlive the ogres have always been KOS to all the orc clans regardless. The Dark Elves had a pact with the Crushbone orcs, and so dark elves were Dubious to the Crushbone Orcs while everyone else is KOS.

11-23-2005, 11:42 PM	#56
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Thinks outloud "What is the purpose of a map?" "To measure distance, to show relationships between locations, to find one's way....." "What is the purpose of an 'old' map?" "To show where things once were located, which are no longer known, to show how the shape of the lands have changed...." "What motivates Orcs?" "Power, fear, greed..." "What was on old maps that is missing from new maps?" "Druid Rings, Wizard Spires, Dervish Camps, Befallen,* the Tunnel entrance to the Deserts of Ro ..."* "What are the Orcs searching for?" Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 11-23-2005 11:37 AM

11-23-2005, 11:55 PM	#57
KindredHeart Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 339	I think it's a cute thread, but I've seen this map used in so many places I took it for SOE's default "map goes here" graphic. I honestly don't believe it means anything, well I believe it didn't mean anything until possibly this thread was started and noticed. Now I guess they might retro-fit a quest around it. But seriously, have you noticed how many instanced zones, and random other locations this exact map shows up - it's all over the place. It didn't seem to mean anything more than a scroll on a bookshelf or a book in a library. They do actually have graphics for random room items. Now the fact that you saw this map just lying around on the ground, and not on a table or in a room somewhere...okay that part I'll give you has merit. But without being able to see the surrounding area where you took the picture I can't say for certain. Message Edited by KindredHeart on 11-23-2005 12:57 PM __________________ Vallar (90 Mystic) Guild Leader - Devil's Rejects (Guk Server) http://gukrejects.guildportal.com

11-24-2005, 12:10 AM	#58
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	Well, that thought has occurred to me (as well as several others) too. This may very well be nothing more than a 'red herring'. However the fact that a game designer *did* respond ,(in a somewhat cryptic manner), to the thread may mean there 'might' be something here to look closer at. /shrugs It may be fun to speculate even if there is nothing here but a piece of the background art.

11-24-2005, 12:29 AM	#59
thesilverf General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 134	Well, as far as speculation goes, they are all found in places that the Rallosian Army would have been during the wars. Orcs destorying Halas dropped one... Ogres on the way to the Commonlands dropped a couple... The one in Freeport was taken as a souvenir after the Green Mist parted... The Orcs in the clefts are reviewing it to plan again and see what went wrong? Is that too long ago for the maps just to have survived laying around on the ground? Or... Are they out now with old maps trying to find the immense treasure the army must have accrued, summarily lost upon their defeat...

11-24-2005, 12:35 AM	#60
pera Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 433	The one in Nek since it is just lieing on the ground could of been droped by a Orc scout as it was returning to the commonlands to gather new information about that has changed to plan for a new attack. The rest since they are actualy in the possesion of someone the maps defiently could of survived the long years, but the one on the ground i would think would of had to of been droped by a orc orge recently. (in a lore aspect of the game) Message Edited by perano on 11-23-2005 11:36 AM __________________ - Igus 70 Dirge, Second Dawn Best Quote Ever: "BREAKING: New York subways smell funny"