Wards are leaking again

[Mystiq]

Oh really, a dev NEVER responded in the Defiler forum?Or even to any Defiler issues in the spell forum for that matter?I understand the dev presence in the class forums is rather sparse, but don't try to claim our board, or even our issues, gets any more QT than yours does Broom.

[Mystiq]

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Kikenata wrote:

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Aeralik wrote:

I just checked in a fix for damage going through wards.  When they would crit the script for them would error out making them look like they were working but in reality they weren't.  Hopefully this will fix the overall leaking problem since this was the only time I saw damage going through a single ward. 

I also fixed the group wards failing to function when overwritten last week so hopefully the damage issues are resolved now.

 

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What does crit mean? Is it short for critical? How does a ward crit? Does this term refer to a some type of combat alert/text?

I play a Mystic but I am un-familiar with this term. Any able to reply with a nice explanation? I would appreciate it.

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Yes, crit is short for critical, and in most games a crit refers to a larger amount than normal of something, be it damage from a nuke or a melee hit, or a higher heal.  In our case, I assume, a ward crit means we have a chance to ward for more than the base amount each time we cast one. It's not as easy to identify as a heal crit since wards exist in a logging vacuum atm. Once ward crits are fixed, along with ward logging and feedback text, it will be much easier to understand when and how it happens.Hope that helps.

[Ixnay]

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Mystique wrote:

Oh really, a dev NEVER responded in the Defiler forum?Or even to any Defiler issues in the spell forum for that matter?I understand the dev presence in the class forums is rather sparse, but don't try to claim our board, or even our issues, gets any more QT than yours does Broom.

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Mystique, I appreciate your pointing out the second Lockeye post above, where he says our Voice of Ancestors spell is working as intended, and then invites us to submit a list of the mobs that we are saying it doesn't work against.  I had never seen that post, and will ask all defilers to take him up on that offer and start compiling a list of mobs for which VoA doesn't cure the stun, stifle or mez of that mob.

And to other Defilers, the reason Aeralik (the dev) posted his explanation on the Mystic board is because his original explanation about this fix was in a post Banditman started about this issue on a private forum.  We all expressed joy about this in the other post, and asked Aeralik to post this same information on the public boards.  In this case, I feel like it was most appropriate for Aeralik to post this on the Mystic boards, because it was Banditman's post and detailed information about the ward bug that got him to comment about this in the first place.

This bug fix will drop the Defiler bug/issues list down to 7 items (according to the numbered issues in my post within that post).  As Mystique says, he also added at least one cool new features to wards as a bonus.  And yes, it is also my understanding that wards will now crit.

So, good job, Banditman, thank you, Aeralik.  Peace and happiness to everyone else

Edit:  And lest I forget one of the best incoming improvements of all, beginning with this patch, ward depletion will now show in a uniform manner, such that ward depletion can be parsed, similar to how heals can be parsed.  I feel like this is a major step toward shaman being made equal among priests

Message Edited by Ixnay on 04-10-200604:25 PM

[Broomhilda]

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Ixnay wrote:

And to other Defilers, the reason Aeralik (the dev) posted his explanation on the Mystic board is because his original explanation about this fix was in a post Banditman started about this issue on a private forum.  We all expressed joy about this in the other post, and asked Aeralik to post this same information on the public boards.  In this case, I feel like it was most appropriate for Aeralik to post this on the Mystic boards, because it was Banditman's post and detailed information about the ward bug that got him to comment about this in the first place.

As this applies to BOTH Mystics and Defilers the appropriate thing to do would have been to post this on the Defiler forum as well as there is a WARD thread that is current there.  Talking about addressing the ward issue in only one Shaman thread is just plain silly as it effects both shaman types.  Either way, I'll beleive it when I see it and then I'll wait a few weeks more.    This will be thier 2nd or 3rd attempt at fixing wards.  VOA & Defile, not withstanding, there is a laundry list of Defiler issues that have YET to be addressed or even acknowledged.   Thanks for the info Ixnay.

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[Aeralik]

Just to clarify the logging and damage shown in the ui is still in progress but almost done.  So LU 22 will just have the critical bug fixes and the other stuff will come in LU 23.  There just isnt much time before LU 22 for proper testing of it all but you can look forward to it soon

[Seltha-Larren]

When will wards ward against falling damage and chest damage?  I mean it's damage too, right?

 

 

[blynchehaun]

A slight issue with Mail of Frost, the Wizzie self-Ward.You cast it, and it will trigger if you drop below 30% hp.However, if you drop below 30%, cast it, and are then damaged while below 30%, it **doesn't** trigger.

[Ixnay]

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Aeralik wrote:

Just to clarify the logging and damage shown in the ui is still in progress but almost done.  So LU 22 will just have the critical bug fixes and the other stuff will come in LU 23.  There just isnt much time before LU 22 for proper testing of it all but you can look forward to it soon

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Thank you for the clarification

[Late]

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Broomhilda wrote:

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As this applies to BOTH Mystics and Defilers the appropriate thing to do would have been to post this on the Defiler forum as well as there is a WARD thread that is current there.  Talking about addressing the ward issue in only one Shaman thread is just plain silly as it effects both shaman types.

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So instead of being happy that they are actively working on a Shaman issue, you've now chosen to complain about the forum that they post info in? Amazing....some people are never satisfied.I don't think the mystic community would care if they posted an update to one of our problems in the Wizards forum...or the Guardian forums. They can post it in the Lore forum for all we care. What matters is that they are working on it, not where a dev choses to post.

[NimSul]

I take it back - im disgusted by this whole secret forum thing

Message Edited by NimSul on 04-12-2006 12:31 AM

[Mettleine]

Hearing that wards can crit is even greater news than the bug fix! :pI wonder if the AA ability that increases healing crit chance also affects the chance for wards critting... *crossing fingers*

[Sokolov]

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Ixnay wrote:

And to other Defilers, the reason Aeralik (the dev) posted his explanation on the Mystic board is because his original explanation about this fix was in a post Banditman started about this issue on a private forum.  We all expressed joy about this in the other post, and asked Aeralik to post this same information on the public boards.  In this case, I feel like it was most appropriate for Aeralik to post this on the Mystic boards, because it was Banditman's post and detailed information about the ward bug that got him to comment about this in the first place.

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Ah yes, I forgot, the only reason this is being fixed is because it was mentioned on a private forum.  Many players have given good feedback on this issue (I don't know what "detailed information" means, but I've seen some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good posts about it from non-Banditman), but none have been even acknowledged except Bandit and yourself, and we are supposed to be happy that he posted about the fix to us WHEN YOU ASKED?  I feel it is entirely INAPPROPRIATE there should be a private forum where the dev is taking information from in order to do fixes while apparently ignoring the SAME reports on the official servers and bug reports.  What are we?  Grade 3?  Secret Friendship Club?

[Ordate]

First I want to say a big thanks to those that provided the info to get this problem seen.  Mystics and Defilers alike.

Second, I want to thank the devs that are fixing this issue, posting about it, and also adding in a tweak that makes knowing what is going on so much better (logging).

Third, to the defiler(s) that are whining about what board this appeared on, grow up.  That takes a major amount of immaturity to complain about it not being posted on "your" boards.  The dev was gracious enough to take time out of his busy schedule to post here in the first place when he is a dev, not a community relations person.

Finally, crap!  Now I have to think my AA line since our wards will crit.

 

[Ishnar]

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Ordate wrote:

 

Finally, crap!  Now I have to think my AA line since our wards will crit.

 

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hehehe

[Sokolov]

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Ordate wrote:

That takes a major amount of immaturity to complain about it not being posted on "your" boards.

 

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If you look at it from another prespective, the one where Mystics have been asking us not to post here because it's "your" boards and "why are Defilers here," then it becomes apparent that when a dev posts about an issue on the Mystic boards that pretains to BOTH classes, and relies on the HOPE that Defilers will wander over here.  The irony that if we stick to our own boards we would not be informed of a vital issue to our class.   But we are supposed to "grow up" for wanting them to actually acknowledge our presence.The earliest reports of the Ward issues came from the Defiler boards, yet there has not been a single dev response there.  Now apparently the fact is that Banditman had to post on a private forum to get dev attention to this issue and this sets off alarms in my head about the policies in place for customer service and feedback.Otherwise, yes, I am happy they are fixing Wards. 

[Banditman]

Here is exactly what I posted, minus the logs, in the forum mentioned.  I took no credit for the data collection at all.  The only credit I have any right to is for relaying the information to all sources at my disposal.If you like, I'll stop using all the means at my disposal to get problems addressed.

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Banditman wrote:I'm not sure this will help diagnose the problem, but here are some tests run by one of the more competent Mystics in the forums regarding the current holes in Wards.They are broken and it is a HUGE problem.This is the raw log, the highlights are mine used to illustrate the testing process.

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[Sokolov]

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Banditman wrote:Here is exactly what I posted, minus the logs, in the forum mentioned.  I took no credit for the data collection at all.  The only credit I have any right to is for relaying the information to all sources at my disposal.If you like, I'll stop using all the means at my disposal to get problems addressed.

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Banditman wrote:I'm not sure this will help diagnose the problem, but here are some tests run by one of the more competent Mystics in the forums regarding the current holes in Wards.They are broken and it is a HUGE problem.This is the raw log, the highlights are mine used to illustrate the testing process.

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My issue is not with you, Bandit, please don't intrepret my comments that way.  My issue is why they don't acknowledge that the same information you relayed is already posted.  Why only acknowledge it where the rest of us cannot see?  Heck, I assume those logs came from these very boards(if not, there are logs aplenty here, some even have screenshots).... so WHY did they have to be reposted somewhere private to get the dev to look at it?  That makes NO sense.As I asked Ixnay earlier, sould I stop using the official channels (boards and bug reports) and simply pass all info to him and yourself?  The evidence is telling me that this is how to get things fixed

Message Edited by Sokolov on 04-11-2006 06:02 AM

[Ordate]

Bahh wrote a long reply to you sokolov but it got eaten for some reason.  In short:

1) I think its good to have people that share so much in common to post on the boards as long as it isnt general pointless bickering and stay to issues specific to the class whose board it is on or to shared concerns.

2) yes how the issue finally got seen is disturbing, I would suggest emailing [email protected] (I think thats the email address) and talk about the lack of response from bug reports, discussion, pms, etc.  (I cant promise a response or anything happening from that either)

3) Catch flies with honey.  Now that a dev has actually looked, dont chase him away.

4) Posting in any forum from a dev will get the most response as I am certain it is safe to say people check the dev tracker in general far more often then any set of boards.

 

PS:  Bandit, please use any and all tools at your disposal to get issues seen.  As it is the general customer has difficulty having their concerns seen though that shouldnt be the case.  While I wish it was different, it isnt, so keep up the good work

Message Edited by Ordate on 04-11-2006 06:28 AM

[Broomhilda]

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Sokolov wrote:

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My issue is not with you, Bandit, please don't intrepret my comments that way.  My issue is why they don't acknowledge that the same information you relayed is already posted.  Why only acknowledge it where the rest of us cannot see? 

Heck, I assume those logs came from these very boards(if not, there are logs aplenty here, some even have screenshots).... so WHY did they have to be reposted somewhere private to get the dev to look at it?  That makes NO sense.

As I asked Ixnay earlier, sould I stop using the official channels (boards and bug reports) and simply pass all info to him and yourself?  The evidence is telling me that this is how to get things fixed

Message Edited by Sokolov on 04-11-2006 06:02 AM

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Precisely.  It appears then that the official boards are Irrelevant!  The ONLY way to make the devs look at our issues are on private forums.  Bugs, posting, feedback is totally useless here.  I will remember this for the future that the official SOE forums are nothing but a big waste of time!

To all here my issue is NOT with mystics and never has been,  It is with this games developers and the lack of respect and acknowledgement they have shown Defilers.  Yes, they should have posted on all shaman forums this important information.  As many mystics have told us to GET OFF thier boards in the past and since that whole HP buff debate childishness I have no desire to visit the Mystic forums.  I would have NEVER known that this info was posted if Bandit hadn't posted a link on the Defiler forums.    Lack of respect on the part of SOE towards defilers, plain and simple.

And to all that feel the need to kiss the rear ends of SOE because they are FINALLY fixing something that should have been fixed 9 months ago, I say kudos to you.  I'm not doing it. These ward issues have been going on since the game started.   I remember posts that are over a year old made by defilers about the ward problems.  So I'm not in the habit of thanking someone for something that should have been corrected long ago and I'm paying my money for it. 

Good day.

 

Message Edited by Broomhilda on 04-11-2006 09:36 AM

[Banditman]

Actually the current Ward issue has only been present since KoS released.  The issue was totally related to Wards that crit.We often forget that other Healing classes had problems as well.

[Sokolov]

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Banditman wrote:Actually the current Ward issue has only been present since KoS released.  The issue was totally related to Wards that crit.We often forget that other Healing classes had problems as well.

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I hadn't forgotten how fast they were fixed.

[Broomhilda]

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Banditman wrote:
Actually the current Ward issue has only been present since KoS released.  The issue was totally related to Wards that crit.

We often forget that other Healing classes had problems as well.

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Bandit, I'm really trying to avoid this forum in future but to respond:  Yes, they do and they get corrected pronto.  Warden directs, cleric reactives, fixed in a matter of weeks.  Wards have always had issues, and I know Defiler wards have had seperate issues.  Whether the current issue is a new one is irrelevant, there has always been ward issues lingering since the onset of the game that the devs have not properly addressed for months. 

 

[Ixnay]

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Sokolov wrote:

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Ixnay wrote:

And to other Defilers, the reason Aeralik (the dev) posted his explanation on the Mystic board is because his original explanation about this fix was in a post Banditman started about this issue on a private forum.  We all expressed joy about this in the other post, and asked Aeralik to post this same information on the public boards.  In this case, I feel like it was most appropriate for Aeralik to post this on the Mystic boards, because it was Banditman's post and detailed information about the ward bug that got him to comment about this in the first place.

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Ah yes, I forgot, the only reason this is being fixed is because it was mentioned on a private forum.  Many players have given good feedback on this issue (I don't know what "detailed information" means, but I've seen some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good posts about it from non-Banditman), but none have been even acknowledged except Bandit and yourself, and we are supposed to be happy that he posted about the fix to us WHEN YOU ASKED? 

I feel it is entirely INAPPROPRIATE there should be a private forum where the dev is taking information from in order to do fixes while apparently ignoring the SAME reports on the official servers and bug reports. 

What are we?  Grade 3?  Secret Friendship Club?

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How dare you.

I will NEVER, EVER AGAIN post anything that you can create this kind of drama about.

You think for 20 bucks a month you deserve a dedicated SoE employee to give you daily updates on your concerns and issues?

Welcome to the spacious and hollow vacuum of silence.

[Sokolov]

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Ixnay wrote:

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Sokolov wrote:

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Ixnay wrote:

And to other Defilers, the reason Aeralik (the dev) posted his explanation on the Mystic board is because his original explanation about this fix was in a post Banditman started about this issue on a private forum.  We all expressed joy about this in the other post, and asked Aeralik to post this same information on the public boards.  In this case, I feel like it was most appropriate for Aeralik to post this on the Mystic boards, because it was Banditman's post and detailed information about the ward bug that got him to comment about this in the first place.

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Ah yes, I forgot, the only reason this is being fixed is because it was mentioned on a private forum.  Many players have given good feedback on this issue (I don't know what "detailed information" means, but I've seen some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good posts about it from non-Banditman), but none have been even acknowledged except Bandit and yourself, and we are supposed to be happy that he posted about the fix to us WHEN YOU ASKED?  I feel it is entirely INAPPROPRIATE there should be a private forum where the dev is taking information from in order to do fixes while apparently ignoring the SAME reports on the official servers and bug reports.  What are we?  Grade 3?  Secret Friendship Club?

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How dare you.

I will NEVER, EVER AGAIN post anything that you can create this kind of drama about.

You think for 20 bucks a month you deserve a dedicated SoE employee to give you daily updates on your concerns and issues?

Welcome to the spacious and hollow vacuum of silence.

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I would hope not, as it shouldn't have happened in the first place.  Not that this is really drama.And no, I don't expect my 20 bucks to provide a dedicated SoE employee (altho it's actually more than that as I have a Station Pass), when did I ever say this?I just want the company as a whole to take a step forward in costumer relations and communications.  This means it isn't my money we are talking about, but everyone's.  We ALL deserve proper communication and attention from the people who develop the game.  Just because you are special and have a private forum does not mean you should look down on the rest of us who simply want the same kind of information you have apparently been privileged with.You yourself indicated that the dev posted here because you asked.  Why should you even have to ask?  Is ignoring the customer base really in the best interest of SoE?  (Ironically, overall I am quite happy with the game, it has come a long way since launch, and I am enjoying KoS and the new PvP gameplay immensely.  My biggest concern of late mostly are what I preceive to be customer relation and communication problems - long periods of silence, stealth nerfs, missing update notes, inconsistent/bad GM/CSR behavior.  I could theoritically preface every post with some praise of the devs, but as I said before, if my post is meant to complain about something, that's what it'll be about.  My positive feedback has been given elsewhere in their appropriate places.)

Message Edited by Sokolov on 04-11-2006 08:03 AM

[Eepop]

Broomhilda and any other defiler complaining about what board it got posted on: The dev wasnt relying on defilers to happen to wander onto the mystic forums, he was expecting the shaman community to communicate that a fix was coming. I had given defilers notice that we(shamans) got a responce within minutes of getting it.  If someone was keeping up with the defiler threads they would have full access to seeing that response. As for why the post was on the mystic boards: the logs that proved the problem came from mystics.  Even if defilers said it was broken first, it doesnt get fixed until someone takes the time with logs to prove that its broken.  Devs rarely respond to simple statements that something is broken.  They need the cold hard data to help them find and resolve the issue.  A mystic ran the logs, pointed out the problems, and then another mystic moved them into the dev's attention. So he posted in on the mystic boards, get over it. And for the record, mystics have no problem with defilers being on the mystic boards.  What we have a problem with is when defilers come to our board and brush off our concerns with limited knowledge, saying any data that we have gathered is pointless. We are all for having civil discussions about issues that effect both classes.  And much thanks to the defilers here that are keeping it civil.

[Eepop]

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Sokolov wrote:

I just want the company as a whole to take a step forward in costumer relations and communications.  This means it isn't my money we are talking about, but everyone's.  We ALL deserve proper communication and attention from the people who develop the game.  Just because you are special and have a private forum does not mean you should look down on the rest of us who simply want the same kind of information you have apparently been privileged with.You yourself indicated that the dev posted here because you asked.  Why should you even have to ask?  Is ignoring the customer base really in the best interest of SoE? 

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While I certainly would like more open communication, attacking Ixnay or Banditman isnt the answer. Banditman (and probably Ixnay) were ELECTED* as class representatives early in the life of the game.  Not because they thought they were better than other people, but beacuse they would do the WORK of collecting information to give to the devs, so that our issues could be fixed more expediently. They take thier personal time out to work on our issues, they are just players, they don't have to do this.  The least you could do is show a little appreciation. So they get special priviledges to see a private board, they also have special responsibilities that they have to fullfill to have those priviledges. * - It has been brought to my attention that there were no offical SoE sanctioned elections.  What I remember must have been an unoffical election within the mystic community.

Message Edited by Eepop on 04-11-2006 10:35 AM

[Sokolov]

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Eepop wrote:

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Sokolov wrote:

I just want the company as a whole to take a step forward in costumer relations and communications.  This means it isn't my money we are talking about, but everyone's.  We ALL deserve proper communication and attention from the people who develop the game.  Just because you are special and have a private forum does not mean you should look down on the rest of us who simply want the same kind of information you have apparently been privileged with.You yourself indicated that the dev posted here because you asked.  Why should you even have to ask?  Is ignoring the customer base really in the best interest of SoE? 

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While I certainly would like more open communication, attacking Ixnay or Banditman isnt the answer. Banditman (and probably Ixnay) were ELECTED as class representatives early in the life of the game.  Not because they thought they were better than other people, but beacuse they would do the WORK of collecting information to give to the devs, so that our issues could be fixed more expediently. They take thier personal time out to work on our issues, they are just players, they don't have to do this.  The least you could do is show a little appreciation. So they get special priviledges to see a private board, they also have special responsibilities that they have to fullfill to have those priviledges.

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I never intended to attack either of them.  If anyone has felt I did, I apologize.  If they want to take it personally or interpret something I never intended, that's not something I can help. For example, in the other thread I posted in recently, Bandit apparently assumed I was arguing that HP buffs were equal even tho I specifically stated that there is a disparity.  I even specifically told Banditman I have no issues with him in this very thread.  I certainly appreciate the fact they got SOMEONE's attention so we can get our issues addressed.The question is why the dev is posting there and not here and only here when asked?  Why is it that the same information that was in these boards has to be posted ELSEWHERE by Banditman in order for it be to acknowledged?  It isn't limited to Defiler or Shaman or Mystic issues, EVERYWHERE you look there's complaints of communication issues.  This is a big deal, and I hope SoE sees it.  All it would've taken to satisfy many people is a few simple words now and then to make many people happy.  And you are telling me SoE relies on the community to pass out information it should be?

Message Edited by Sokolov on 04-11-2006 08:30 AM

[Broomhilda]

This is my last post as this is nothing but another waste of time.  Mystics do have a problem with us being on their boards and have said this many times.  I myself stay away from them becuase I see no real good coming from it.  I was forced to come here because the Devs saw to it to ignore Defilers once again and address the mystics ONLY about a concern that involves us both.  If you had been ignored for months you would feel slighted as well.  As you have not been, you see no problem with what happened. 

Many Defilers have run logs and given actual data about issues in the past.  To imply that we never had and only mystics have is an insult, but no worries, I really don't care as this has become par for the course.  Again my post was to the game devs not mystics, however I see some of you have DECIDED to take it personally so I will say again, this is a waste of time.  And nothing good has come of it. 

I have learned a valuable lesson:  posting on the forums, listing concerns, giving feedback and bugging is a total waste of time and I for one am done with it.  Many Defilers left this game long ago and I finally see why they didnt stay and fight.  No one listens to us.  Period.

Good day and peace out.

 

[Mystiq]

Eepop pretty much nailed it, good post dude.For starters, yes myself, Ixnay and Banditman all have access to a private forum, that we do not mention to avoid the kind of drama that is starting up in this thread.The forum was created for special invitees of last year's Fan Faire, chosen by the people, for the people, to attend a special panel with the devs to bring up issues we feel are important. The idea was to keep the open line of communication between mature, flame retardant posters/players and the devs so that we can help fish the vast sea of this forum and bring the really important issues to their attention faster. I defy anyone to read every new post in every forum every day, and respond to every one that's even remotely your area of expertise, while working 8-12 hours a day. You can't do it, and neither can they. If you don't like that at least your issues are being conveyed in one for(u)m or another to the (hopefully) devs' attention, fine, we can stop right now.And as for the mystic community being dubious of defilers posting on our boards, well maybe you should take a look at what you are trying to contribute here, because for the most part what I see is arguments, complaints and dev attacks. I'm not talking about every defiler that posts here, and we don't hate anybody, but we aren't without reason when it comes to our feelings about defiler posters here. If you want to post here about issues common to shamans, that's great, we don't mind, but I'd like to move past the drama at this point.In fact, you wanna know what happened when a defiler joined the ww mystic channel? Our friend radical edward decided to show up one night and stir up defiler vs. mystic drama, with a few attacks against my and others' guilds thrown in for fun. Oh but according to him, he joined the channel to discuss some achievement paths (uh huh). We mostly sat back and let him make a fool of himself before I'd had enough and asked him to leave. I understand that he isn't the defiler spokesperson, but hey I don't speak for the entire mystic community either, yet I don't have to throw doody on the playground to get my point accross.

[Ordate]

I dont think mystics have any problems with defilers posting here.  I think we have problems with people that throw around insults, unwarranted accusations, and temper-trantums from posting here regardless of class.

 

In your fanatic zeal against the "evils" of SOE you have consistentently made blind accusations and been down right rude to the dev team and the community as a whole Broom.  You read what you want into what someone says and throw back your fantasy as some wacked out proof.

 

I'll be glad to see you no longer posting here.  Not because you are a defiler.  But because you are a hinderance to the community.

 

(And yes I know that Im bordering on doing what I said, this is what happens when trolls get the best of you and you post without counting to 10)

 

Message Edited by Ordate on 04-11-2006 09:58 AM