Playing an Effective Mystic

Bisho · 04-07-2005, 11:46 PM

Although I'm new to EQII (and the Mystic class), I've played healers to high levels in a number of MMORPGs (including EQ). However, I find the Mystic line of spells relatively unique. As such, I'd value any gameplay suggestions for ensuring the effectiveness of my toon. For purposes of background, I always play with the same group of RL friends: Pali; Mage, Bard; Fury and Berzerker. We're all early 20's. I usually play the MH with the Fury offering back-up healing while she's dotting and buffing. Currently, I ward the MT before she pulls, debuff with delusion and wailing haze, re-ward and dot. When the other tank or mage (*$%#&! his blood lust) pull aggro, I'll direct heal and, if they're really getting pounded, drop a ward to keep them going until the MT reacquires aggo. Things only really go south when we're playing with less than a full group and I pull aggro from a bad ward or stupidly casting the group heal. Even then, if I play smart I can fear or insta-ward to keep things going. My greatest problems stem from mass pulls where several people are taking damage. The group ward is a long cast and falls quickly. Group heals have the same problem and, of course, guarantee fast aggro. I'm interested in general play suggestions and specific advice for bad pulls and large encounters with several ^^ whites and yellows. Among other things, where do we get the most bang for our buck on wards versus debuffs versus direct heals. Thanks in advance for all of your advice.

Zav · 04-07-2005, 11:56 PM

You may not want to hear this but you should switch MH roles with the Fury.

We are all looking forward to the next game update where wards may get a change to make them effective but as it stands right now the Fury will be more efficient as the MH while you debuff, dps, and back him up. This doesn't mean you can't do it but it will be more efficent if the Fury takes over as MH. Most Mystics are hoping that this changes with live update 7.

Banditman · 04-08-2005, 12:00 AM

Good to see you've already identified the biggest problem Mystics have. We are adequate healers under controlled situations but sadly lacking in ability and resources when things get interesting. Hopefully the next big patch will bring some relief, because right now you've managed to form a group with two of the three weakest healers in the game being regular participants. Your group could replace both of you with a Templar and add more DPS, or better yet a Chanter, and do significantly more challenging content. Mystics have great utility. Perhaps among the best in the game behind Bards, but this in no way makes up for our lack of raw healing power. We are all eagerly awaiting what happens with the next patch, which is supposed to include healer re-balancing. Mystics are right on the edge of being equal healers, but need a couple of changes to push us into place. We all hope that these changes happen. Wait on that patch and then see where you are.

Loral · 04-08-2005, 12:06 AM

Mass pulls where multiple ppl are taking damage is not your concern, but the concern of the Pally and Zerker. They have to be good enough to know how to split the job when *$%#&! happens, and keep the aggro on themselves. Your job is to keep thoses 2 and yourself alive. After that is the Fury. Next come the Mage and the Bard.

As suggested, for the time beiing, Mystics are better 2nd healers than the other 2 classes, thus the idea of switching role with the Fury.

For suggestions: there is no real solutions other than what you mentionned: Fear and Eliotic ward when able, group spells if appropriate, else stick to wards and single heals for less aggro. You cannot do miracles if the tanks do not have the aggro, as you cannot cast spells while getting pounded on.

As you guys level into your 20s, you will unlock many skills each that will help you deal with different situations... The pally will get some heal himself, the Bard will get a single-target mezz, the Mage will get some crowd-control and stun spells, you and the Fury will get more potent spells. Simply with the bard and mage, if they are good, crowd controlling will become alot easier.

Disclamer: all of this many not be true after LiveUpdate #7, as Sumonners and Enchanters (and all subclasses) as well as Shaman types will get a major upgrade. This may change your group dynamic a little. Adjust accordingly.

Message Edited by Loralor on 04-07-2005 01:09 PM

ume · 04-08-2005, 12:19 AM

Now that the Mystihaters have once again offered their invaluable advice, I'll try to help and keep you from jumping off the bridge.

Before 24: Try to land Wailing haze and weakness and spam your wards.

24+: You ALWAYS want to land your keening Haze spell. Upgrade it, live it, love it. It is by far the most powerful debuff in the game. It basically drops the mob's melee skill by about 3 levels and casting skill by 5 levels. This will make a green/blue mob hit like a gray and a white/yellow mob hit like a green/blue. This spell should always be your priority, while using your wards and heals to keep the party going until you can land it on as many as possible. Once keening haze is on a mob, the need for healing is dramatically reduced.

It has been proven that wards are a bit less mana efficient than direct heals because wards do not use ac mitigation. Generally, heal your tank with direct heals and ward your casters when they get aggro. Always make sure you Keening Haze the mob right after applying the ward on your non-tank groupmate when they get aggro.

In the larger fights of 6+ solo mob, I tend to more ward/heal spam until it gets down to only 2 or 3 then try to land Keening Haze on the least likely next target, meaning the one the tank will probably target last. This is usually the mob behind him.

I see that you tend to get alot of adds on you. You can help this by Keening Haze the mob then ward yourself until the tank can pull aggro back. I find as a mystic with my buffs on and decent gear, I'm quite beefy and can take a beating well once my debuffs are on. I try to be the group's puller with my Keening Haze spell as much as possible. There could be another problem here too though. You may want to make sure your tank gets upgraded Taunt spells and to ask him to concentrate more on Taunting rather than spamming his combat specials.

Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.

Zav · 04-08-2005, 12:23 AM

I'm a mysticlover.

Just being realistic.

You're not doing anything wrong. What you described is the problem currently facing mystics and without a "fix" it will always be a problem no matter how effectively you play your mystic. The only solution I've found is trying to find a tank that takes as little damage as possible to counteract the problem. If you do this though you're functional but still not as effective as the other healers. Mystics are very playable still but not on par with the other healers. Hence the advice....

Right now having the mystic be MH with another priest around is like having a guard for dps so your pally can tank. Sure it works but it's more efficient the other way.

Alot of people miss that point and until I took the time to listen I used to think people were just mystic haters too. I see their point now, Mystics aren't useless but the other priests ARE more powerful.

You can argue that we have debuffs but until they are unresistable it's like having a chance to resist a HoT. If you want to base our effectiveness on slows then you are admitting that one resist makes us ineffective.

I prefer to be MH but groups prefer me to be backup. I have to agree with them no matter how much I want to be MH my selfishness can't lower the groups efficency.

Message Edited by Zavit on 04-07-2005 01:50 PM

ume · 04-08-2005, 01:28 AM

Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT.

Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually.

ChristopherK · 04-08-2005, 01:36 AM

Your running with a group that pretty much got me to 50.

Here is your roll in that group SMILEY

Mystic: Ward/Debuff/DoT - Heal Others.

Fury: HoT/Debuff/DoT - Heal Main Tank.

Fury/Mystic is fun. You slow down and stop the damage while the Fury HoT ticks the health back up. You guys both get Ae DD's and some good debuffs. Fury gets good buffs for tank. It's a fine group your running with.

With the way mobs resist mages on the way up though. I would spam the scout-fighter(kick)-priest(heal) HO over and over for easy heals and a good DD. The key to this HO is to use your first level heal spell to advance it.. that way you save a ton of power.

Try not to use your biggest direct heal as much as your others since it's less efficient, but with a 1s cast time it rocks when you have to heal the guy real quick SMILEY .

ChristopherK · 04-08-2005, 01:40 AM

Also,

If you find yourself (or any healer in group) casting group anything you need to rethink your strats or get a new tank. Even when fighting groups of 6 - 8 mobs only the MT should be taking damage. And remeber, it takes less power to rez a dead mage than heal him while he's chain casting nukes to show he's a dps monster.

OgApostrap · 04-08-2005, 03:47 AM

I would think the zerker would be a betetr mt choice.. Hold aggro better.. can have you as the Mh for a while since I ebt he ahs more avoidance.. and the paladin can help you by also warding.. no idea if theys tack.. but if they do thats good.. also.. wont have to wrory about aggro being stolen wehn he zerks..

Ariaya · 04-08-2005, 07:21 AM

ChristopherKee wrote:
Also,

If you find yourself (or any healer in group) casting group anything you need to rethink your strats or get a new tank. Even when fighting groups of 6 - 8 mobs only the MT should be taking damage. And remeber, it takes less power to rez a dead mage than heal him while he's chain casting nukes to show he's a dps monster.

Actually I cast my group ward somewhat often .. primarily because it doesn't matter who in the group is taking damage .. so if the mob suddenly turns on the mage, it'll help, or if the mob stays on the MT, it'll help there too. I've had the opportunity to heal for a bezerker and a pally, if if your 'zerker isn't the MT, I suggest he/she become the MT. It's a BIG difference. Also work a bit more with your Fury friend. When grouped with a druid type, I find the most effective tactics for single mobs are (generally) .. I slow while the druid-type drops their HoT on the MT, then when the MT is down to about 70%, I'll drop a ward on them. Land additional debuffs as possible. At this point, the mob is slowed and doing less damage while the HoT brings back the MT's life. For 2-mob situations, I slow the one the tank is not on and the rest is as above. If your group is having agro issues, that's everyone's responsibility. As folks have said, the only person getting hit should be the MT .. the secondary tank if there's a need for some ghetto crowd control.. Casters will occasionally draw agro, but it shouldn't be a common occurance. Good luck, and welcome to the fun world of a Mystic!

Spag · 04-08-2005, 07:14 PM

umerr wrote:

Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT.

Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually.

Chance of a ward lasting more than 5 seconds = Act of god or tank 6 levels higher than the mob.

If you are going to paint the picture, paint it all. While wards will be the best class specific "heal" in the game when ac is added, because they will scale to whatever the mob is dishing out, they are the worst right now.

Reactives many times can keep up with the Mob hits because not every mob hit is a special attack. The melee hits set off the reactives as well.

Regens however you have a bit of a point. Most of the time they cannot keep up with mob output, which means they need some lovin' in live update #7 as well, till then they have the Natures Caress line. A shorter duration with the same over all HP healed would probably do it, say 15 - 20 seconds instead of 30. This would raise the Hp/Sec to a reasonable level.

Zav · 04-08-2005, 08:27 PM

umerr wrote:

Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT.

Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually.

In the HoT example - the HoT being resisted is a HoT not being needed. That's a perfectly acceptable resist and causes no harm.

Usually if a mob resists my slow then the slow was needed.

In the reactive example - the reactive is being fully utilized which is also an acceptable situation.

Equal would be the HoT or reactive not ticking for a round even though damage was done.

This is only if you want to factor debuffs into our healing efficency. From what I understand debuffs will not be considered part of priest balancing just direct heals and specialty heals. Some priests will debuff better, some priests will have more dps, but healing is what they are working on balancing.

I usually only ward on the pull if I'm a solo healer. I direct heal all the damage. You'll never hear a templar or a warden say that about their class specific heals.

04-08-2005, 12:00 AM	#3
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Good to see you've already identified the biggest problem Mystics have. We are adequate healers under controlled situations but sadly lacking in ability and resources when things get interesting. Hopefully the next big patch will bring some relief, because right now you've managed to form a group with two of the three weakest healers in the game being regular participants. Your group could replace both of you with a Templar and add more DPS, or better yet a Chanter, and do significantly more challenging content. Mystics have great utility. Perhaps among the best in the game behind Bards, but this in no way makes up for our lack of raw healing power. We are all eagerly awaiting what happens with the next patch, which is supposed to include healer re-balancing. Mystics are right on the edge of being equal healers, but need a couple of changes to push us into place. We all hope that these changes happen. Wait on that patch and then see where you are. __________________

04-08-2005, 12:06 AM	#4
Loral General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 614	Mass pulls where multiple ppl are taking damage is not your concern, but the concern of the Pally and Zerker. They have to be good enough to know how to split the job when *$%#&! happens, and keep the aggro on themselves. Your job is to keep thoses 2 and yourself alive. After that is the Fury. Next come the Mage and the Bard. As suggested, for the time beiing, Mystics are better 2nd healers than the other 2 classes, thus the idea of switching role with the Fury. For suggestions: there is no real solutions other than what you mentionned: Fear and Eliotic ward when able, group spells if appropriate, else stick to wards and single heals for less aggro. You cannot do miracles if the tanks do not have the aggro, as you cannot cast spells while getting pounded on. As you guys level into your 20s, you will unlock many skills each that will help you deal with different situations... The pally will get some heal himself, the Bard will get a single-target mezz, the Mage will get some crowd-control and stun spells, you and the Fury will get more potent spells. Simply with the bard and mage, if they are good, crowd controlling will become alot easier. Disclamer: all of this many not be true after LiveUpdate #7, as Sumonners and Enchanters (and all subclasses) as well as Shaman types will get a major upgrade. This may change your group dynamic a little. Adjust accordingly. Message Edited by Loralor on 04-07-2005 01:09 PM __________________

04-08-2005, 12:19 AM	#5
ume Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Now that the Mystihaters have once again offered their invaluable advice, I'll try to help and keep you from jumping off the bridge. Before 24: Try to land Wailing haze and weakness and spam your wards. 24+: You ALWAYS want to land your keening Haze spell. Upgrade it, live it, love it. It is by far the most powerful debuff in the game. It basically drops the mob's melee skill by about 3 levels and casting skill by 5 levels. This will make a green/blue mob hit like a gray and a white/yellow mob hit like a green/blue. This spell should always be your priority, while using your wards and heals to keep the party going until you can land it on as many as possible. Once keening haze is on a mob, the need for healing is dramatically reduced. It has been proven that wards are a bit less mana efficient than direct heals because wards do not use ac mitigation. Generally, heal your tank with direct heals and ward your casters when they get aggro. Always make sure you Keening Haze the mob right after applying the ward on your non-tank groupmate when they get aggro. In the larger fights of 6+ solo mob, I tend to more ward/heal spam until it gets down to only 2 or 3 then try to land Keening Haze on the least likely next target, meaning the one the tank will probably target last. This is usually the mob behind him. I see that you tend to get alot of adds on you. You can help this by Keening Haze the mob then ward yourself until the tank can pull aggro back. I find as a mystic with my buffs on and decent gear, I'm quite beefy and can take a beating well once my debuffs are on. I try to be the group's puller with my Keening Haze spell as much as possible. There could be another problem here too though. You may want to make sure your tank gets upgraded Taunt spells and to ask him to concentrate more on Taunting rather than spamming his combat specials. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. __________________ Undefeatable- 70 Bruiser-21 Tailor Indestructable-33 Fury-42 WoodWorker Unbreakable-29 Necro-38 Sage Unbeatable - 14 Assassin-37 Alchemist Cabb-29 Dirge

04-08-2005, 01:36 AM	#8
ChristopherK Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	Your running with a group that pretty much got me to 50. Here is your roll in that group Mystic: Ward/Debuff/DoT - Heal Others. Fury: HoT/Debuff/DoT - Heal Main Tank. Fury/Mystic is fun. You slow down and stop the damage while the Fury HoT ticks the health back up. You guys both get Ae DD's and some good debuffs. Fury gets good buffs for tank. It's a fine group your running with. With the way mobs resist mages on the way up though. I would spam the scout-fighter(kick)-priest(heal) HO over and over for easy heals and a good DD. The key to this HO is to use your first level heal spell to advance it.. that way you save a ton of power. Try not to use your biggest direct heal as much as your others since it's less efficient, but with a 1s cast time it rocks when you have to heal the guy real quick .

04-08-2005, 07:21 AM	#11
Ariaya Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 84	ChristopherKee wrote: Also, If you find yourself (or any healer in group) casting group anything you need to rethink your strats or get a new tank. Even when fighting groups of 6 - 8 mobs only the MT should be taking damage. And remeber, it takes less power to rez a dead mage than heal him while he's chain casting nukes to show he's a dps monster. Actually I cast my group ward somewhat often .. primarily because it doesn't matter who in the group is taking damage .. so if the mob suddenly turns on the mage, it'll help, or if the mob stays on the MT, it'll help there too. I've had the opportunity to heal for a bezerker and a pally, if if your 'zerker isn't the MT, I suggest he/she become the MT. It's a BIG difference. Also work a bit more with your Fury friend. When grouped with a druid type, I find the most effective tactics for single mobs are (generally) .. I slow while the druid-type drops their HoT on the MT, then when the MT is down to about 70%, I'll drop a ward on them. Land additional debuffs as possible. At this point, the mob is slowed and doing less damage while the HoT brings back the MT's life. For 2-mob situations, I slow the one the tank is not on and the rest is as above. If your group is having agro issues, that's everyone's responsibility. As folks have said, the only person getting hit should be the MT .. the secondary tank if there's a need for some ghetto crowd control.. Casters will occasionally draw agro, but it shouldn't be a common occurance. Good luck, and welcome to the fun world of a Mystic! __________________ ~ Ariaya, Mystic and Provisioner of Unrest

04-07-2005, 11:46 PM	#1
Bisho Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 23	Although I'm new to EQII (and the Mystic class), I've played healers to high levels in a number of MMORPGs (including EQ). However, I find the Mystic line of spells relatively unique. As such, I'd value any gameplay suggestions for ensuring the effectiveness of my toon. For purposes of background, I always play with the same group of RL friends: Pali; Mage, Bard; Fury and Berzerker. We're all early 20's. I usually play the MH with the Fury offering back-up healing while she's dotting and buffing. Currently, I ward the MT before she pulls, debuff with delusion and wailing haze, re-ward and dot. When the other tank or mage (*$%#&! his blood lust) pull aggro, I'll direct heal and, if they're really getting pounded, drop a ward to keep them going until the MT reacquires aggo. Things only really go south when we're playing with less than a full group and I pull aggro from a bad ward or stupidly casting the group heal. Even then, if I play smart I can fear or insta-ward to keep things going. My greatest problems stem from mass pulls where several people are taking damage. The group ward is a long cast and falls quickly. Group heals have the same problem and, of course, guarantee fast aggro. I'm interested in general play suggestions and specific advice for bad pulls and large encounters with several ^^ whites and yellows. Among other things, where do we get the most bang for our buck on wards versus debuffs versus direct heals. Thanks in advance for all of your advice.

04-07-2005, 11:56 PM	#2
Zav General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	You may not want to hear this but you should switch MH roles with the Fury. We are all looking forward to the next game update where wards may get a change to make them effective but as it stands right now the Fury will be more efficient as the MH while you debuff, dps, and back him up. This doesn't mean you can't do it but it will be more efficent if the Fury takes over as MH. Most Mystics are hoping that this changes with live update 7.

04-08-2005, 12:23 AM	#6
Zav General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	I'm a mysticlover. Just being realistic. You're not doing anything wrong. What you described is the problem currently facing mystics and without a "fix" it will always be a problem no matter how effectively you play your mystic. The only solution I've found is trying to find a tank that takes as little damage as possible to counteract the problem. If you do this though you're functional but still not as effective as the other healers. Mystics are very playable still but not on par with the other healers. Hence the advice.... Right now having the mystic be MH with another priest around is like having a guard for dps so your pally can tank. Sure it works but it's more efficient the other way. Alot of people miss that point and until I took the time to listen I used to think people were just mystic haters too. I see their point now, Mystics aren't useless but the other priests ARE more powerful. You can argue that we have debuffs but until they are unresistable it's like having a chance to resist a HoT. If you want to base our effectiveness on slows then you are admitting that one resist makes us ineffective. I prefer to be MH but groups prefer me to be backup. I have to agree with them no matter how much I want to be MH my selfishness can't lower the groups efficency. Message Edited by Zavit on 04-07-2005 01:50 PM

04-08-2005, 01:28 AM	#7
ume Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT. Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually. __________________ Undefeatable- 70 Bruiser-21 Tailor Indestructable-33 Fury-42 WoodWorker Unbreakable-29 Necro-38 Sage Unbeatable - 14 Assassin-37 Alchemist Cabb-29 Dirge

04-08-2005, 01:40 AM	#9
ChristopherK Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	Also, If you find yourself (or any healer in group) casting group anything you need to rethink your strats or get a new tank. Even when fighting groups of 6 - 8 mobs only the MT should be taking damage. And remeber, it takes less power to rez a dead mage than heal him while he's chain casting nukes to show he's a dps monster.

04-08-2005, 03:47 AM	#10
OgApostrap Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	I would think the zerker would be a betetr mt choice.. Hold aggro better.. can have you as the Mh for a while since I ebt he ahs more avoidance.. and the paladin can help you by also warding.. no idea if theys tack.. but if they do thats good.. also.. wont have to wrory about aggro being stolen wehn he zerks..

04-08-2005, 07:14 PM	#12
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	umerr wrote: Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT. Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually. Chance of a ward lasting more than 5 seconds = Act of god or tank 6 levels higher than the mob. If you are going to paint the picture, paint it all. While wards will be the best class specific "heal" in the game when ac is added, because they will scale to whatever the mob is dishing out, they are the worst right now. Reactives many times can keep up with the Mob hits because not every mob hit is a special attack. The melee hits set off the reactives as well. Regens however you have a bit of a point. Most of the time they cannot keep up with mob output, which means they need some lovin' in live update #7 as well, till then they have the Natures Caress line. A shorter duration with the same over all HP healed would probably do it, say 15 - 20 seconds instead of 30. This would raise the Hp/Sec to a reasonable level. __________________

04-08-2005, 08:27 PM	#13
Zav General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	umerr wrote: Chance to resist warden HoT = Lucky defense rolls by the tank in which he never takes damage for the duration of heal over time or damage is receive too quickly faster than each tick of the heal over time=wasted HoT. Chance to resist Templar Reactive = each individual hit that is received on the tank does more damage than the reactive heals for individually. In the HoT example - the HoT being resisted is a HoT not being needed. That's a perfectly acceptable resist and causes no harm. Usually if a mob resists my slow then the slow was needed. In the reactive example - the reactive is being fully utilized which is also an acceptable situation. Equal would be the HoT or reactive not ticking for a round even though damage was done. This is only if you want to factor debuffs into our healing efficency. From what I understand debuffs will not be considered part of priest balancing just direct heals and specialty heals. Some priests will debuff better, some priests will have more dps, but healing is what they are working on balancing. I usually only ward on the pull if I'm a solo healer. I direct heal all the damage. You'll never hear a templar or a warden say that about their class specific heals.