Time to protest on newbie/perma board

FumoFu · 01-08-2005, 04:34 AM

i will shortly be starting a thread on the newbie board about stacking regens, naturally im going to be blasted into oblivion from other class's but what the hell SMILEY

for who think we rightly deserve stacking regenerations like the templars stacking reactives then post on the thread....

... but i cannot make any posts on newbie board for some reason SMILEY

so will post back with protest thread link.

Axterix · 01-08-2005, 04:39 AM

Our regens already stack like theirs. Difference is that ours always last the full duration, while theirs wear off...allowing the next one to do its thing.

And yes, you probably will be blasted, rightfully so.

We need to get our higher level regens working properly first, before we worry about other classes. How can you compare us to others when we aren't even what we should be yet?

FumoFu · 01-08-2005, 04:42 AM

am quite ready to be blasted for thinking our regens should stack, could argue till my fingers bleed that the numbers just dont add up. but then this thread isnt for people who arent going to help the cause.

Axterix · 01-08-2005, 04:45 AM

I'm just saying there isn't a cause for the cause yet...we need to get our regens fixed so that they heal the proper amount first. Then we can see where we stand and argue logically that things should change. But right now, how much are we underpowered because our regens are healing the wrong amount and how much, if any, is due to stacking?

FumoFu · 01-08-2005, 04:50 AM

i think ur a of a muppet. but ur right the stacking issue wouldnt be an issue if each regen itself did more. but isnt that the same goal? stacking or more power regen our goal is the same.

Axterix · 01-08-2005, 05:02 AM

Aye, and I think you're just looking to rant, not hold a constructive discussion on what the class needs.

As to it being the same issue, it is and it isn't. It is the same in that we don't heal as much as other classes, but different in that we don't heal as much as we should, regardless of the other classes. The focus is on us, just us, our abilities, not theirs.

Look at our new class ability regens...they heal for more than regrowth. That is what the line is supposed to do, it is supposed to heal more per second as you level up. It doesn't. And that's a bug. One that has to be fixed to make our higher level regens worthwhile. One that will be fixed, sooner or later. That's what we need to make a big issue about so that the devs will get the stuff fixed already.

One effects just us and wardens. The other classes can look at it and say "yah, that's right, this is wrong, fix it." But if you compare, then you get into arguments about class balance, accusations of wanting nerfs, and all that. And it won't address the underlying issue, that our regens are healing the wrong amount.

Once that is done, then we can see where we stand compared to others. If we are outclassed then, I'll be right behind you. But I don't like the idea of hack fixes being thrown in rather than having things fixed the right way. The hacks always just lead to further issues down the line.

Twizz · 01-08-2005, 05:36 AM

I'm not for stacking of regens at all, I would rather see fleshweave and higher level spells increased as well. In fact Fleshweave adept 3 already heals more HP per sec then regrowth adept 3 does but it should heal even more IMO.

Our group heals is another story. They seem to be way to low at higher levels.

I think we should try to start a thread to list our issues, like some other classes do. That, however, means that people have to agree to what the issues are.

I can only speek for spells up till 31 but I'll switch to fleshweave as soon as I can find adept 3. I just think it should be better earlier and cap higher. If it capped at the same level as regrowth master 1 does I wouldn't complain since it heals faster (3 sec ticks compared to 3.3 sec ticks)

Bad_Mojo · 01-08-2005, 06:15 AM

Twizz wrote:

I'm not for stacking of regens at all, I would rather see fleshweave and higher level spells increased as well. In fact Fleshweave adept 3 already heals more HP per sec then regrowth adept 3 does but it should heal even more IMO.

Our group heals is another story. They seem to be way to low at higher levels.

I think we should try to start a thread to list our issues, like some other classes do. That, however, means that people have to agree to what the issues are.

I can only speek for spells up till 31 but I'll switch to fleshweave as soon as I can find adept 3. I just think it should be better earlier and cap higher. If it capped at the same level as regrowth master 1 does I wouldn't complain since it heals faster (3 sec ticks compared to 3.3 sec ticks)

I agree... It seems as if their app/adept/master system is off kilter. A level 26 regen at Apprentice 1 should at least heal as much as the spell it replaces does at Adept III. We shouldn't have to upgrade our upgrades in order for them to be an upgrade.

Twizz · 01-08-2005, 09:56 AM

I'm not ready to go that far, but the appr 3 fleshweave should at least be equal to adept 1 regrowth when you get it at 26. Then improve from there.

FumoFu · 01-08-2005, 01:49 PM

either way the devs arent doing anything about it, the problem can be solved 1 of 2 ways... stacking of spells... or actually making the regens heal what it should be. some of you might think its just a rant, well thats fine. but the post on the newbie/perma forums will be far from it. Using descriptions and factful information provided from this board on what each of regens costs in power and heals in ticks compared to other healing lines... takin into effect debuffs as well.

It's time to take action before nothing is done.

Twizz · 01-09-2005, 08:54 AM

Well, if you are going to post somewhere, why not use the spells and arts board? That's where it belongs. Newbi yard is allready flooded with posts that shouldn't be there...

I want our higher heals upgraded. No stacking for me lol I have enough issues with 3 spell bars as it is.

Bad_Mojo · 01-09-2005, 08:25 PM

Twizz wrote:

Well, if you are going to post somewhere, why not use the spells and arts board? That's where it belongs. Newbi yard is allready flooded with posts that shouldn't be there...

I want our higher heals upgraded. No stacking for me lol I have enough issues with 3 spell bars as it is.

Good point, especially with the changes to the newbie boards that prevent a lot of folks (non-newbies) from posting there. He would get much more feedback in the S&A board.

ren · 01-09-2005, 10:46 PM

I posted a thread about what I think our issues are in Spells and Arts board. It probably won't ever get read, but I needed to vent because it is just so frustrating.

ren · 01-09-2005, 11:09 PM

Here is the link if ya wanna stop by. It is kinda lengthy, but we have a ton of problems, in my mind =/

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=15894

FumoFu · 01-10-2005, 01:10 AM

AWESOME post rensu.... really good post. i think everyone should sign that petition SMILEY

Message Edited by FumoFumo on 01-09-2005 01:30 PM

FumoFu · 01-10-2005, 01:25 PM

any fury's that havent seen rensu's post on his above thread should go have a read if u have 10 mins spare. i actually feel like something might be done now SMILEY

Perilous Wi · 01-10-2005, 07:58 PM

That was a magnificent post, Resnu.

I am very proud to know you & Bad Mojo are a part of this community.

Kuddos to both of you for coming to the defense of the Fury community & class against the clueless and redundant dimwits out there who have nothing better to do than waste all our time.

Racmo · 01-10-2005, 09:01 PM

You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true.

Racmoor

Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character.

Bad_Mojo · 01-10-2005, 09:13 PM

Racmoor wrote:

You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true.

Racmoor

Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character.

The way I understand it... The vitae's don't actually 'stack', they more get queued one behind the other - So in effect, as soon as one drops the other is already taking up the slack? I may be wrong as I don't group with cleric Archetypes often, and so I'm basing it on an earlier discussion here on the forums.

ren · 01-11-2005, 01:08 AM

Racmoor wrote:

You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true.

Racmoor

Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character.

You have to consider the lifespan of your character, too. Sure, stacking a level 12 regen with a level 40 regen may sound good now, but not when you are level 100 and stacking a level 100 regen with a level 12 regen.

Unless you mean Fleshweave+Wild Bloodflow+Regen? If that is the case, than that is way too much healing and there is no way that they can balance it well. I actually think that the stacking issues as is are fine if they would increase healing amount (especially for Adept3 Wild Bloodflow --- that was hardly an upgrade at all, so dissapointing with it being my only efficient heal).

Lancealittle · 01-12-2005, 07:57 PM

I hate to call for nerfs, but the real fix is to not allow stacking of runes and reactive heals.

The shaman and clerics should get a message that their spell will not take effect till it wears off. That would make it so that none of the healing classes can just spam stack their heals.

The game is set up so that we have three basic heals per healing caster. We all get the minor and arc healing type of spell as well as the class defining heal. You can argue that this is not enough, but that's another subject.

When you get upgrades to these, you should take the old one off your casting bar and start using the newer one.

You will see this more when they put in the same recast timer on all spell ugrades.

01-08-2005, 04:34 AM	#1
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	i will shortly be starting a thread on the newbie board about stacking regens, naturally im going to be blasted into oblivion from other class's but what the hell for who think we rightly deserve stacking regenerations like the templars stacking reactives then post on the thread.... ... but i cannot make any posts on newbie board for some reason so will post back with protest thread link.

01-08-2005, 05:36 AM	#7
Twizz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	I'm not for stacking of regens at all, I would rather see fleshweave and higher level spells increased as well. In fact Fleshweave adept 3 already heals more HP per sec then regrowth adept 3 does but it should heal even more IMO. Our group heals is another story. They seem to be way to low at higher levels. I think we should try to start a thread to list our issues, like some other classes do. That, however, means that people have to agree to what the issues are. I can only speek for spells up till 31 but I'll switch to fleshweave as soon as I can find adept 3. I just think it should be better earlier and cap higher. If it capped at the same level as regrowth master 1 does I wouldn't complain since it heals faster (3 sec ticks compared to 3.3 sec ticks) __________________ Akhorahil Gildarion Styrbjorn Murazor

01-08-2005, 06:15 AM	#8
Bad_Mojo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 341	Twizz wrote: I'm not for stacking of regens at all, I would rather see fleshweave and higher level spells increased as well. In fact Fleshweave adept 3 already heals more HP per sec then regrowth adept 3 does but it should heal even more IMO. Our group heals is another story. They seem to be way to low at higher levels. I think we should try to start a thread to list our issues, like some other classes do. That, however, means that people have to agree to what the issues are. I can only speek for spells up till 31 but I'll switch to fleshweave as soon as I can find adept 3. I just think it should be better earlier and cap higher. If it capped at the same level as regrowth master 1 does I wouldn't complain since it heals faster (3 sec ticks compared to 3.3 sec ticks) I agree... It seems as if their app/adept/master system is off kilter. A level 26 regen at Apprentice 1 should at least heal as much as the spell it replaces does at Adept III. We shouldn't have to upgrade our upgrades in order for them to be an upgrade.

01-08-2005, 09:56 AM	#9
Twizz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	I'm not ready to go that far, but the appr 3 fleshweave should at least be equal to adept 1 regrowth when you get it at 26. Then improve from there. __________________ Akhorahil Gildarion Styrbjorn Murazor

01-09-2005, 08:54 AM	#11
Twizz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	Well, if you are going to post somewhere, why not use the spells and arts board? That's where it belongs. Newbi yard is allready flooded with posts that shouldn't be there... I want our higher heals upgraded. No stacking for me lol I have enough issues with 3 spell bars as it is. __________________ Akhorahil Gildarion Styrbjorn Murazor

01-08-2005, 04:39 AM	#2
Axterix Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	Our regens already stack like theirs. Difference is that ours always last the full duration, while theirs wear off...allowing the next one to do its thing. And yes, you probably will be blasted, rightfully so. We need to get our higher level regens working properly first, before we worry about other classes. How can you compare us to others when we aren't even what we should be yet?

01-08-2005, 04:42 AM	#3
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	am quite ready to be blasted for thinking our regens should stack, could argue till my fingers bleed that the numbers just dont add up. but then this thread isnt for people who arent going to help the cause.

01-08-2005, 04:45 AM	#4
Axterix Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	I'm just saying there isn't a cause for the cause yet...we need to get our regens fixed so that they heal the proper amount first. Then we can see where we stand and argue logically that things should change. But right now, how much are we underpowered because our regens are healing the wrong amount and how much, if any, is due to stacking?

01-08-2005, 04:50 AM	#5
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	i think ur a of a muppet. but ur right the stacking issue wouldnt be an issue if each regen itself did more. but isnt that the same goal? stacking or more power regen our goal is the same.

01-08-2005, 05:02 AM	#6
Axterix Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	Aye, and I think you're just looking to rant, not hold a constructive discussion on what the class needs. As to it being the same issue, it is and it isn't. It is the same in that we don't heal as much as other classes, but different in that we don't heal as much as we should, regardless of the other classes. The focus is on us, just us, our abilities, not theirs. Look at our new class ability regens...they heal for more than regrowth. That is what the line is supposed to do, it is supposed to heal more per second as you level up. It doesn't. And that's a bug. One that has to be fixed to make our higher level regens worthwhile. One that will be fixed, sooner or later. That's what we need to make a big issue about so that the devs will get the stuff fixed already. One effects just us and wardens. The other classes can look at it and say "yah, that's right, this is wrong, fix it." But if you compare, then you get into arguments about class balance, accusations of wanting nerfs, and all that. And it won't address the underlying issue, that our regens are healing the wrong amount. Once that is done, then we can see where we stand compared to others. If we are outclassed then, I'll be right behind you. But I don't like the idea of hack fixes being thrown in rather than having things fixed the right way. The hacks always just lead to further issues down the line.

01-08-2005, 01:49 PM	#10
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	either way the devs arent doing anything about it, the problem can be solved 1 of 2 ways... stacking of spells... or actually making the regens heal what it should be. some of you might think its just a rant, well thats fine. but the post on the newbie/perma forums will be far from it. Using descriptions and factful information provided from this board on what each of regens costs in power and heals in ticks compared to other healing lines... takin into effect debuffs as well. It's time to take action before nothing is done.

01-09-2005, 08:25 PM	#12
Bad_Mojo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 341	Twizz wrote: Well, if you are going to post somewhere, why not use the spells and arts board? That's where it belongs. Newbi yard is allready flooded with posts that shouldn't be there... I want our higher heals upgraded. No stacking for me lol I have enough issues with 3 spell bars as it is. Good point, especially with the changes to the newbie boards that prevent a lot of folks (non-newbies) from posting there. He would get much more feedback in the S&A board.

01-09-2005, 10:46 PM	#13
ren Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 409	I posted a thread about what I think our issues are in Spells and Arts board. It probably won't ever get read, but I needed to vent because it is just so frustrating.

01-09-2005, 11:09 PM	#14
ren Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 409	Here is the link if ya wanna stop by. It is kinda lengthy, but we have a ton of problems, in my mind =/ http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=15894

01-10-2005, 01:10 AM	#15
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	AWESOME post rensu.... really good post. i think everyone should sign that petition Message Edited by FumoFumo on 01-09-2005 01:30 PM

01-10-2005, 01:25 PM	#16
FumoFu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	any fury's that havent seen rensu's post on his above thread should go have a read if u have 10 mins spare. i actually feel like something might be done now

01-10-2005, 07:58 PM	#17
Perilous Wi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	That was a magnificent post, Resnu. I am very proud to know you & Bad Mojo are a part of this community. Kuddos to both of you for coming to the defense of the Fury community & class against the clueless and redundant dimwits out there who have nothing better to do than waste all our time. __________________ Perilys Najena: Fury [49]

01-10-2005, 09:01 PM	#18
Racmo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 126	You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true. Racmoor Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character.

01-10-2005, 09:13 PM	#19
Bad_Mojo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 341	Racmoor wrote: You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true. Racmoor Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character. The way I understand it... The vitae's don't actually 'stack', they more get queued one behind the other - So in effect, as soon as one drops the other is already taking up the slack? I may be wrong as I don't group with cleric Archetypes often, and so I'm basing it on an earlier discussion here on the forums.

01-11-2005, 01:08 AM	#20
ren Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 409	Racmoor wrote: You don't want regrowth to stack with fleshweave? Honestly this is just wierd. One regen will not keep the MT up in dungeons without spamming instant heals. Two would. Clerics can stack their vitaes...why can't we stack our regens? I'm tired of clerics being able to be the solo healer, and when I'm in their group, I'm not needed. I was promised I could that all healers would be capable of healing equally. I don't believe that's true. Racmoor Now clue the people that say I don't know how to play my character. You have to consider the lifespan of your character, too. Sure, stacking a level 12 regen with a level 40 regen may sound good now, but not when you are level 100 and stacking a level 100 regen with a level 12 regen. Unless you mean Fleshweave+Wild Bloodflow+Regen? If that is the case, than that is way too much healing and there is no way that they can balance it well. I actually think that the stacking issues as is are fine if they would increase healing amount (especially for Adept3 Wild Bloodflow --- that was hardly an upgrade at all, so dissapointing with it being my only efficient heal).

01-12-2005, 07:57 PM	#21
Lancealittle Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 181	I hate to call for nerfs, but the real fix is to not allow stacking of runes and reactive heals. The shaman and clerics should get a message that their spell will not take effect till it wears off. That would make it so that none of the healing classes can just spam stack their heals. The game is set up so that we have three basic heals per healing caster. We all get the minor and arc healing type of spell as well as the class defining heal. You can argue that this is not enough, but that's another subject. When you get upgrades to these, you should take the old one off your casting bar and start using the newer one. You will see this more when they put in the same recast timer on all spell ugrades. __________________ Eeek- Ratonga Fury - Test Gildenrose - High Elf Swashbuckler - Test Lancealittle - Gnome Guardian - Test