Tranquility review

[Barand]

I wanted to post that on spell and combat art forum, but i may be best to get all of your opinion first. So the main subject is : When is tranquility usefull ? When should i launch it ? Spell master : Tranquility : Cure 115 lvl / power cost : 354 / casting time : 2,5s / recovery : 1min   / heal for 350 for each effect removed Solo cure : Cure 75 lvl / power  cost : 90 / casting time : 1s / recovery : 0.5s Sylvan streams : heal for 450-550 +75/92s /power cost : 146 /  casting time : 1s / recovery : 5s First point : How many effect do you need to cure to be efficient ? First note that if there is 2 trauma effect, you may not cure both of them. it happen from time to time but generally there is only 1 effect per type that go away with tranquility. 1 effect : Spell           || casting time    || mana cost   || amount healed Tranquility      2,5s                  354                  350 Cure+heal     2s                      236                  450-550 A waste on every point. 2 effect : Spell           || casting time    || mana cost   || amount healed Tranquility      2,5s                  354                  700 Cure+heal     3s                      326                  525-642 A bit better on casting time, a bit more cost and more healing. 3 effect : Spell           || casting time    || mana cost   || amount healed Tranquility      2,5s                  354                  1050 Cure+heal     4s                      416                  600-734 So 2 effect start to be better, and 3 effect really make the difference. Now this is theory. Now in practice for 2 effect imagine there is 2 dot 300/s for poison and 300/s for mental. Time    ||  Tank hp  || tranquility       || tank hp   ||cure + heal 0s            2000         start casting     2000         cure poison 1s            1400                                  1700           cure mental 2s            800                                    1700            heal         2,5s        1500           finished            1700            3s            1500                                    2150         finished if the dot cure land before the first tick If it land after we got that : Time    ||  Tank hp  || tranquility       || tank hp   ||cure + heal 0s            2000         start casting     2000         cure poison 1s            1400                                  1400           cure mental 2s            800                                    1100            heal         2,5s        1500           finished            1100            3s            1500                                   1550-1650         finished So in fact even with 2 effect it will look bad if the dot is high enough.   Second point : Effectivness in solo/group/raid : Solo : Generally i never get more than 1 effect when I solo.  You never reach the number of effect to be efficient. Casting time and power cost make it totally useless in solo. Generally the dot or debuff are so weak that its better to continue nuking than curing them Group : I think this is the situation where it can be used. It can happen that 2 or more different effect are on the tank. And except for HoF the cure dont need to be fast.  In fact, if you are the only healer, and if you want to use tranquility, you can make it usefull by waiting for more effect to land on the tank. This is the only way i use it. When i want some healing and i m lazy to cure, i wait for more effect and launch it. Other than that most of the time it is also totally useless and if i have time to wait for more effect it means that these effect were not really needed to be cured. HoF will fall into raid part. Raid : On raid there are 2 issue : - effect need to be cure as soon as possible. 1s more and it can be a wipe (think of debilitate or some huge dot). - other healer will never let you wait for more effect. Most of the time when i cast it (on trash of course i m not crazy enough to cast it on real named ), all effect are gone before the spell land. Also useless there too. 3rd point : situation where it is usefull / useless usefull : - When you are the only healer in a group and you are lazy and mob debuff aren't very important useless : - when there is only 1 debuff (maybe 2) - solo - raid - when there are other healer - when fast cure is needed 4th point : other remarks Recovery time : Its so huge, that you have to wait for the good time to launch the spell.... and that time never comes ... Sames type effect : Between adept I and master I, there is not really difference. Master I should remove up to 75x2=150 lvl to be able at least to cure 2 effect everytimes. Right now adept I and master I will remove 1 effect most of the time. Or at least give the master I an upgrade in amount healed. possible improvment : I think that most of the warden would be happy if casting time was lowered to 1s. You could play with the amount healed, or power cost to make it 1s cast and 1min recast. Any tought on that ?

[myount]

I never use this spell and dont even have it on my hotkeys anymore.  This is 2 tiers we have gotten crappy unique spells.

[Unmask]

Interesting analysis but as far as I know the generic priest cures will also cure all effects of its type (so if there are 2 different trauma effects it will cure both).  Plus for the spell to be most effective we have to tell all other curers in group/raid not to cure and the only time tranquility is really worthwhile is when you don't really care if other curers are curing.  That's one of the spell's major problems.

The power cost for the single target cure is 95 and our minor heal (sylvan streams) costs 146 so two cures plus a minor heal costs 336 power compared to the 332 power cost of tranquility.  What we gain is a lot more flexibility.  And if you have to interrupt the spell for some reason you already told the other curers not to cure any effects which compounds the problems with the spell.

Lower cast and recast times significantly and I think the spell becomes more useful.  But I really don't think we need another cure spell.

[Lordviperscorpian]

I think we all know the spell is worthless.  I try to use it...often...but the long cast time renders the spell COMPLETLEY USELESS.  SoE knows it...and if they dont know it the spell designers and devs have never played a warden.  Its obviously showing with this spell.  To high mana cost. To long of a cast.Recast blows.Who cares about a 300point heal when it never goes off becuase you cant get the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] spell off fast enough to remove 3 or more debuffs to acually make it WORTH WHILE.  The verdict: Spell sucks. Just like out level 50, 52, and oh so many others in our spellbook.What can YOU do about it? Get to 70, gear out your guy, then play another class that acually has half decent spells.

[Shennr]

The easy fix to this spell is to make it cure 250 levels of hostile effects at master 1. This would allow you to cure at least 3 effects of each type, ie. 3 trauma, 3 arcane, 3 noxious, and 3 elemental.

Benefits:

You have a greater potential heal.

You can cure multiple of the same detrimental effect and make the spell still effecient.

It would not be overpowered because it is on a 1 min recast. And mobs have to recast debuffs for it to even work.

[Dragonreal]

Agree with all of this.. this spell badly needs changing; it's the only spell I do not put on my hotbar at all.. even tunare's has a spot on one of the 5 bars I use =x

 

One other thing I have to say though.. your analysis of the two spells in action is a little bit off because you have the cure nox going off on the tank at 0s and that's honestly impossible unless you're clairvoyant and can see the effect incoming.. in which case you could have tranquillity going off at 0s as well and the biggest issue of the spell wouldn't be seen =P So, basically.. you need to factor in the 1s cast time of the normal cures as well if you're going to be factoring in tranq's cast time (which is the point of the exercise heh).

Message Edited by Dragonrealms on 05-02-2006 06:12 PM

[mikemcmodmi]

There are other downsides. 

1. It only cures one of each type of effect while most mobs only cast maybe 2 kinds of effects.  So in grouping you will hardly ever see one and only one of each kind of debuff.
2. Healing momentum.  If you're healing and stop to cast your cure it's a 2.5 sec cast time meaning it takes a big chunk of time.  It's enough to lose healing momentum and the heal component doesn't compensate for this.
3. It doesn't cure fears, pacifies, stuns.  Only the debuffs that can normally be cured through your regular cures.

I don't think even bringing it down to 1 sec is enough really.  Throw out the spell completely and start over.  Think of it in terms of comparing it to other training spells like sanctuary, back into the fray, defile, sanctuary, etc....  It wouldn't just have to have a use, it would have to be a total rework to make it a good spell.  Like a cure that makes the target immune to those effects for 30 seconds.  That would be a good spell

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 05-02-2006 03:23 PM

[Unmask]

I finally found a use for the spell.  A guildie was tanking all the lower lvl guards in QH (around lvl 35) so I could keep him fully healed with Tranquility - removed about 5 effects each time I cast it.

[bouaouauoa]

what to say....sorry but, IF YOU say that, at 2 or 3 effect, this spell is USEFULL.... it mean that you never been raiding Labo raid t7.

If you dont cure bad effect in less than 1sec, your tank has 50-75% chance to die... SO, just why would i cast this ''''''spell'''''.

Every almost bad status are stupid and dont need to bu cured(50%).

nah...this spell is badly stupid, it doesn need a review, but a COMPLETE change of everything that have to deal with the name tranquility.i posted several post again this spell..keep posting again maybe one day dev will realise that this spell doesnt worth a copper...

[Barand]

Read the whole thread, i have tried to be as objective as possible to find a way to use it. Spell is useless in raid we all know that ... like every other warden special spell ... I could have write a thread name tranquility is teh suxxor but i think this would have not help a lot maybe with analysis and number some dev will look at this ... but a 9 page long thread in general forum doesn't get any official answer, same for all thread here

[Rappy]

If this spell stripped every single hostile effect from a tank it would be useful.  A 'one shot cure it all' spell would be worth it for the cast time, , recast time and power cost (admittedly situational but heck thats what marquee's seem to be about for the most part).The main problem is.. even at master 1 this spell does not guarantee 3 or more effects dispelled, rendering it not worth using

[mikemcmodmi]

Here's an analysis of tranquility that goes back to when T7 had just started.  Since then the power cost has been reduced.  Yay, that fixed everything /sarcasm off

I think I might use this spell if it had a .5 to 1 sec cast time with a 10 sec or so recast.  I'm not sure about the recast, maybe it would need to be shorter.  It might be annoying to switch between curing and the tranquility button if the recast was too long.

 

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 07-10-2006 02:21 PM

[Dragonreal]

if they were to do those changes, the heal would need to be removed because that would be a bit overpowered.. and if they remove the heal.. well.. then what exactly separates our spell from the mystic one except that 10s recast is longer than mystic recast? the recast is fine imo.. mebbe 30 or 45s.. but it's really the cast time that completely destroys the usefulness of this spell.

[tinka]

am totally postin this with out any proof/evidence/reason to believe its true, in the hope that some one clever-er than me can tell me if i was hallucinatin ...was in nizara sometime last week (finished that %$% of a zone an i aint goin back!) an there are a lot of hostile effects from mobs in there that cant be removed, a particular one that couldnt be removed with a normal cure from either myself or the mystic i was with, was stripped off the mt when i "accidently" cast my m1 Tranquility (would obviously not cast Tranquility on purpose in the middle of nizara) saw it in my log an asked the mystic if he had stripped that particular effect at all, he said no, 5 seconds later the effect was back on an i sat there casting cure pioson an it havin no effect while waitin for the bloody Tranquility recast timer.. by which time the mob was dead :smileyindifferent: Tranquility, i think is the highest lvl cure of all the healers,  if i wasnt hallucinatin an this is true of the spell it could increase the situational use of Tranquility.. if we really do have a cure that will cure what no other healer can??? would love for someone else to test this out, nizara is not really a zone i felt safe playin around with these things

[Dragonreal]

m1 lvl 70 grp cures are higher cure lvls and cast faster heh more power though

[mina]

Tranquility can be useful on a raid in a scenario where you cure the MT who is feared, dotted, stunned, etc.  Sometimes everyone in the MT group gets stunned, or the healers die and it's kind of a blind random chance cure which can be helpful.  The casting time is long enough so that you can cancel it if it's something visible, ie. I've cured fear off a few times when I've seen the tank go running by.  I also cast it in group when I'm feeling lazy and someone has a billion debuffs on them

[Shadus]

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Iranos wrote:I wanted to post that ...... possible improvment : I think that most of the warden would be happy if casting time was lowered to 1s. You could play with the amount healed, or power cost to make it 1s cast and 1min recast. Any tought on that ?

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If the casting time were 1s I would put the spell back on my bar.  There are times when I have 3-4 effects on the main tank that if it even cured 1 of each, would make it worthwhile.  If i can cure the spells faster and cheaper... i'm not going to use tranq.  Even at 1s cast it's still not going to be worth using on a raid where curing matters, but at least it would see some use in a group.  Hell I'd be happier with tranq if it were 1s casting time, 150 levels of cure, a reasonable mana cost, and no heal at all... but presently as it stands its absolute junk to often to be seriously considered for use.

[Dragonreal]

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Shadus wrote:

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Iranos wrote:
I wanted to post that ......

possible improvment :
I think that most of the warden would be happy if casting time was lowered to 1s.
You could play with the amount healed, or power cost to make it 1s cast and 1min recast.

Any tought on that ?

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If the casting time were 1s I would put the spell back on my bar.  There are times when I have 3-4 effects on the main tank that if it even cured 1 of each, would make it worthwhile.  If i can cure the spells faster and cheaper... i'm not going to use tranq.  Even at 1s cast it's still not going to be worth using on a raid where curing matters, but at least it would see some use in a group.  Hell I'd be happier with tranq if it were 1s casting time, 150 levels of cure, a reasonable mana cost, and no heal at all... but presently as it stands its absolute junk to often to be seriously considered for use.

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idk all cures are 1s cast time barring group cures? don't see where you get that curing multiple effects in 1s with a heal for each vs doing it in 2-4s with no heals isn't worth using?

[Oakum]

From what I have seen, it is worthless unless its not that important to cure, like on easy content where the tank is taking very slow damage and gets a few debuffs on them that dont have to be removed really. If a dot/debuff actually hurts the tanks like the mit one in HoF, if you wait for tranquility to go off the tank will probably be dead followed shortly by you and the rest of the group unless you can root all the mobs you are fighting.

 

They should just replace the effects of tranquility with a social aggro reducer. Then it would be a useful spell.

[mikemcmodmi]

Well if the recast was too long it would be hard to work into your healing, even if the cast time was 1 second.  You'd be curing and 2 effects would hit, then go for tranquility but it might not be up.  If the recast was 8 seconds or so you'd have a feeling of when the recast should be up but as it stands it'd be too hard to judge.  With cure monitoring in raids I'd rather go for a certain regular cure then maybe fumble around with tranquility when it might or might not be up with the recast.

Think of it this way.  If there was no recast and the power cost was a lot lower casting tranquility would be the same as using a regular cure for an inquisator with convert for curing 1 effect.  The only strength of the spell is curing multiple effects.  As it stands now tranquility is even with an inquisator spamming 3 cures back to back only when 3 effects are up.  It would take us both 3 seconds (recovery timer included).  Since this is a training spell it SHOULD be a good spell.  Atm if all it does is make us even with an inquis when there are 3 effects up every 1 minute or so then it completely sucks.

1 second cast time and 6-8 second recast and it would be about where it should be.   1 minute recast and it's too long.

[mikemcmodmi]

So I decided to check up with how tranquility compares to convert that inquisators get.  Convert for Inquisators heals 227 on every beneficial spell and goes off on cures with the master for 56 power.

So lets look at if 1 effect is up and compare.

• Inquisator:  Healed:  227, power 56 + 95 = 151, time taken .5, .5 recovery
• Warden:     Healed:  350, power 249, time taken 2 seconds, .5 recovery

If 2 effects are up:

• Inquisator:  Healed:  454, power 302, time taken 1.5 secs, .5 recovery
• Warden:     Healed:  700, power 249, time taken 2 seconds, .5 recovery

If 3 effects are up:

• Inquisator:  Healed:  681, power 453, time taken 2.5 secs, .5 recovery
• Warden:     Healed:  1050, power 249, time taken 2 secs, .5 recovery

So this is the comparison of us and an inquisator with convery curing.  Tranquility seems to be good if and only if you cure 3 effects.  Otherwise an inquisator is better off curing and will do it faster.  It takes them more power granted, but I'd rather take speed then power cost and heal amount.  The heal amount doesnt do much for me really, a lot of times the tank will be at full health making it a waste.  Maybe it's a good idea to turn the heal into a ward (since everyone and they're brother gets hots I don't see why not).

The sad part is convert is meant to mainly add to inquisator's heals.  One Inquisator didn't even know the effect goes off when they cure.  So really we're comparing a training spell to a class' curing abilities without trying.  That's why tranquility blows.  An inquisator can also cure like this with no recast whatsoever.  That's why I say we need the recast reduced a lot to make the spell effective.

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 07-12-2006 09:49 AM