The Battle Preist

[PolarBear77]

I just rolled up a new alt inquis to make into the so called "battle preist" . One of my guildmates put the idea of making one in my head saying "a cleric rolled up for being a battle preist is 20x better than your paladin" "he can heal better and pump out more dps that you could ever think of doing"

 

So, I want to test this out and was wondering if anyone has tried this before or has any ideas on how to accomplish this. I'm guessing that it is mostly though aa lines but not realy sure which ones to pick.

 

Oh, and also would you do more DPS though your Auto Attack or your actual spell b/c it is my understanding that you only get a  few spells. so i would to know to focus more on STR or INT

[Bayler_x]

Before we get lots of achievement abilities, we're not so great at dishing out damage.  But yes, with achievements you could build an inquisitor that has a pretty mean damage output.It's not really fair, though, to compare that to a paladin.  A paladin's job is to take hits and keep agro, and that's something that no inquisitor can do.  We have no taunts, and it takes *a lot* of heals to get agro.  Anyway, even though we wear plate, a paladin is probably going to have more mitigation and avoidance.As for damage coming from spells or melee - it could well be both.  I suspect that with the right achievements, inquisitors could actually be the most balanced blend of melee and magic damage in the game.  (But to be fair, I haven't played many other classes, so I don't really know.)

[utkCREW]

I do melee dmg in my AA choices, which gets you far (your dmg will be nice) but it also helps to have the right two-handed fabled (Vraskians Club), and some melee proc gear.  I'm kinda stuck with Divine Recovery for raiding, but every so often I play with my AAs and go:

5-4-4-0-0

4-4-4-0-0

8-8-8-0-0

which sets us up with 100% chance to melee crit, 40% DPS increase, and a 40% chance to proc 101-168 extra dmg on every auto-attack hit.  "Skull Crack" does a nice lil Forced Obedience type debuff which is fun.  With all that (and Yaulp/Fanaticism I have 92% Haste, and 90% DPS)

You need to work on your STR to help out in the auto-attack, but with the right gear getting anything high isn't hard nowdays.

[inhumanus1986]

I guess ill throw in what ive experienced...I have 46 aa that use the stamina, agility, and strength lines.  While healing in the vaults, i used the staff of the flapping wing, the blackscale maul and grizzfazzles mace.  I noticed that w gf mace, i could almost constantly keep up the interrupt on the target mob (right now at 25% chance to interrupt) that greatly reduced damage and along w skull crack and the buckler stun, keeping the mob busy if you were tanking shouldnt be a problem, you would just need a lot more damage and a good amount of str....godking or dominance should hit for about 300 a swing if you had 350+ str.  Since i dont have those weapons yet, the staff of the flapping wing seems to do enough damage to keep aggro and throws in a knockdown on occasions..as the othe post said varasakin club would hit for 1000+ every 2 seconds or so fully buffed and would allow time to throw up dot damage/debuffs/heals between, but i have not experienced itInhumanus Nex70 InquisitorKnights of the TempleNek server

[webuymedia]

Very Interesting Idea. I have a lvl 37 Inq and have been getting my but kicked in PVP. I must get interupts 50% of the time. Since i have been concentrating on wis, my heals are the bigest thing going for me, but it i get interuptd a few times, all done!

 

I thinnk it may be worth the TIme and $$ to change over my armor to STR instead of WIS.

 

I will let you knwo if it helps at all

[PolarBear77]

Ok, Thx alot guys for all the great info. Looks like it isn't a myth.

utkCREW that aa lines are those that you posted there. I'm guessing STA is one but not sure what the other two are. It is kinda hard to tell the damage rating of second ability since im so low lvl, but on that "Skull Crack" attack would that be better choice than the spell crits in the INT line? 

That is a good point about pally tanking and such , i realy don't tank to much besides trash and the easier instances. I'm useally in off stance with a 2h and so i know a inquis can heal better than a pall hands down b/c pally heals just blow. What i realy want to see is if they can out dps one to. Being that we have beat everything in the game now (woot, and gratz to all those that have) this little project is gunna keep me busy till EoF.  = D

[Gobbwin]

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PolarBear77 wrote:

Ok, Thx alot guys for all the great info. Looks like it isn't a myth.

utkCREW that aa lines are those that you posted there. I'm guessing STA is one but not sure what the other two are. It is kinda hard to tell the damage rating of second ability since im so low lvl, but on that "Skull Crack" attack would that be better choice than the spell crits in the INT line? 

That is a good point about pally tanking and such , i realy don't tank to much besides trash and the easier instances. I'm useally in off stance with a 2h and so i know a inquis can heal better than a pall hands down b/c pally heals just blow. What i realy want to see is if they can out dps one to. Being that we have beat everything in the game now (woot, and gratz to all those that have) this little project is gunna keep me busy till EoF.  = D

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No its a very true reality. 

 

The three lines he metioned were STR / STA / AGI.  Skull Crack is one of the most benefical AA abilities that we can get IMHO as it reduces the amout of Melee DPS that the enemy can do to you (plus its low power, diecent reuse, and does some ok damage).  Now as far as crit spells, that's up to you, if you peruse the older threads in this forum, you'll find numerous debates on which method is better, the afore mentioned melee AA set up w/ good gear/weapons OR the casting method w/ ad3/m1 offensive spells and high INT.  As far as I can tell, either choice is just as viable and produces much the same DPS results, it's just a matter of your preferred playstyle.

[Somatic]

"As far as I can tell, either choice is just as viable and produces much the same DPS results, it's just a matter of your preferred playstyle."  -- Gobbwin

If the above is true:  "The same DPS results"

Then it seems the Spell crit line is better??Lets break it down to your statement of the same DPS:Melee  build = DPS (only)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spell Crit line = (same DPS) + augments Chilling Inquest line.                        Faster casting                        Bigger Heals

Maybe your statement is false.  I'm just drawing to the logical conculsion if it is true?Sorry not trying to flame or say one side is right.  I'd personally love more Number Comparisons.We have lots of Numbers for Melee, but i've yet to see Parsed DPS for spell crits.  So it's still all up in the air.

Oh and I forgot to say, the Spell Crit line requires Equipment that is harder to get I think?

Message Edited by Somatic on 09-26-2006 08:01 AM

[menelaus109]

Id be interested in anyones parses of a spell-damage DPS buildAs the previous poster mentioned though spell proc items are harder to get hold of, though i imagine most casters in a decent raid guild are pretty much equipped up with them now, the nice ones i remember from raiding are cloth though so it means a big mitigation  hit

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 09-27-2006 01:03 AM

[Gobbwin]

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Somatic wrote:
"As far as I can tell, either choice is just as viable and produces much the same DPS results, it's just a matter of your preferred playstyle."  -- Gobbwin

If the above is true:  "The same DPS results"

Then it seems the Spell crit line is better??

Lets break it down to your statement of the same DPS:


Melee  build = DPS (only)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell Crit line = (same DPS) + augments Chilling Inquest line.
                        Faster casting
                        Bigger Heals

Maybe your statement is false.  I'm just drawing to the logical conculsion if it is true?
Sorry not trying to flame or say one side is right.  I'd personally love more Number Comparisons.

We have lots of Numbers for Melee, but i've yet to see Parsed DPS for spell crits.  So it's still all up in the air.

Oh and I forgot to say, the Spell Crit line requires Equipment that is harder to get I think?

Message Edited by Somatic on 09-26-2006 08:01 AM

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Again, it depends on your particular playstyle, it is pretty close, but it can be situational.  Hence why there haven't been many parses, many are too random to provide a difinitive answer.  Also, it depends on how you are geared and what the status of your spells is.  INT gear is not that difficult to obtain, hell a lot of T7 plate has INT attached to it.

However, the INT line does not increase your healing capability, the increase to Crit Heals is under the AGI line.  The INT line only increases damage spells and reduces casting timers.  Also, we have the lowest cast timers of all the priest classes, so a fraction of a second reduced cast time can be easily made up by either a faster internet connection or quicker reflexes.

There are pros and cons to every tree, at the moment, there doesn't appear to be a 'must have' AA setup for clerics.

[PolarBear77]

so what does a well equiped inquis usally parse  with the dps lines anyone know ?

[dave143256384]

ok on blue solo mobs in bonemire i usually hit 540 ish, it does vary and im specced at

 

agi 448 sta 448 and str 444

 

although i was dead chuffed to hit 590 yesterday as well. i use the blackscale maul.

 

i ran a series of tests with a one hander and shield (all specced for str etc over wis) and despite hitting faster/proccing more and the greater chance of double attack and bolt of power, it still didnt come even semi close to the maul.

 

ill try and get the exact print out wen i get home.

[pootski]

"However, the INT line does not increase your healing capability, the increase to Crit Heals is under the AGI line."I am pretty sure the crit heals are in the STA line.

[Israphil]

My average dps in a raid (calculated over the entire duration of the raid) typically comes to 350-400, with spikes as high as 700. Granted, much of the time I'm not doing a whole lot of healing, since I'm never in the tank group, but that is a noticeable amount for a healer to contribute, it ensures that I'm keeping my debuffs going at all times, and it motivates me to compete with the furies to see just how much damage I can dish out while putting up comparable heal parse numbers.

Message Edited by rckmer on 09-27-2006 02:16 PM

[menelaus109]

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PolarBear77 wrote:

so what does a well equiped inquis usally parse  with the dps lines anyone know ?

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When i was specced for full melee DPS i could hit a constant 700-800 DPS, occasionally i spiked to around 1k depending on groups and debuffsHowever i did almost no healing when playing around with this (a necro out healed me once prompting several sarcastic comments and a /respec)Against heroic mobs soloing i pulled around 700 DPS with spikes upto 900, it takes timing and the right equipment though and i found that throwing spells into the mix didnt result in a damage increase, just an increase in the variance

[Somatic]

"However, the INT line does not increase your healing capability, the increase to Crit Heals is under the AGI line.  The INT line only increases damage spells and reduces casting timers.  Also, we have the lowest cast timers of all the priest classes, so a fraction of a second reduced cast time can be easily made up by either a faster internet connection or quicker reflexes."

--GobbwinThe point i was making, is not the delayed spell casting for the Dmg spells.  It's delay for heals. Which I think is significant. Here is what i was trying to say:Spell line AA:--------------------------------------------------------------------------Faster heals, Bigger heals.Same or close DPS (-per Gobbwin)'========================================= =So in other words, you get the best of both worlds.  You get same or close DPS, + bigger and faster heals.Where if you go DPS melee line, that's all you get.Please advise the flaw in this view.  I'm very open minded but your own statements do not lead to your conclusion of both lines being equal.  As stated before I'm unsure until i see hard evidence of DPS. Which no one has presented.Hard evidence would be:Gear worn -- so people could debate the slot choices.Spell crit AAs ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------One thing Melee build has in it's favor is it is easier less time consuming to pull off the DPS.  Spell Build sounds more for the hardcore.  Which is logical since the Hardcore would be the ones getting the Fabled spell proc gear.This is just a view and as stated no hard factual evidence is presented.  Also I noticed in some post people make a statement like, my build does X dps...but then never say what build they are talking about.--That is not productive.

Message Edited by Somatic on 09-27-2006 07:23 PM

[Cepheus80]

I was topping about 850dps on my guild's Lyceum raid earlier this evening. I've found that having a troubador in your group can increase your dps by A LOT. He would use his hostile spell focus ability, then I'd use divine recovery and just go crazy casting nukes, debuffs, and my two AA weapon abilities (2 handed hammer and 2 handed staff). Once they wore off I'd slap on Fanaticism and go to town with my two handed staff. I have 100% melee crits btw, which i have found to increase dps by quite a bit with a good weapon. During fights I would usually toggle fanaticism off from time to time to cast heretic's destiny on group mobs and a dot/damage reactive here and there.

 

Gregos 70 Inquisitor-Nagafen server

Rigel 70 Inquisitor-Kithicor server

Message Edited by Cepheus80 on 09-27-2006 08:08 PM

Message Edited by Cepheus80 on 09-27-2006 09:52 PM

[Somatic]

Quote from Gregos:"Gregos 70 Inquisitor-Nagafen server

Rigel 70 Inquisitor-Nagafen server"-- Two level 70 Inquisitors on the same server???One of each build?  Did you make the 2nd for this purpose?

Message Edited by Somatic on 09-27-2006 09:26 PM

[Cepheus80]

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Somatic wrote:

-- Two level 70 Inquisitors on the same server???
One of each build?  Did you make the 2nd for this purpose?

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Lol, no that was a typo. But i do have two lvl 70 inquisitors! One on a PvE server (Kithicor) and another on a PvP server (Nagafen). I edited my post btw, thanks for pointing that out. :smileywink:

[Einsteinb]

My main, original comment on my melee DPS setup (still low level gear) is that it doesn't take up a whole lot of power.

 

When I started toying with a modified melee DPS set up I discovered I used almost no power (I hadn't learned how to mix the DPSing and the healing properly). Eventually (took a little while though :smileywink: ), I figured out it was pretty stupid to have all that power and not use it, so I tossed up convert and started healing madly while swinging. I found that fanaticism can be toggled fast enough that you need not miss a single chance to heal (even minor <10% damage) on raids or in groups. The DPS went down slightly, but I felt I was now giving more to my groups than before (which was really what it was all about for me).

Message Edited by Einsteinb on 09-28-2006 07:03 AM

[Gobbwin]

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Somatic wrote:
"However, the INT line does not increase your healing capability, the increase to Crit Heals is under the AGI line.  The INT line only increases damage spells and reduces casting timers.  Also, we have the lowest cast timers of all the priest classes, so a fraction of a second reduced cast time can be easily made up by either a faster internet connection or quicker reflexes."

--Gobbwin

The point i was making, is not the delayed spell casting for the Dmg spells.  It's delay for heals. Which I think is significant.

IIRC the reduced spell timers only reduces 10-15% w/ 8 AAs.  Our average heals are what, 3-5 seconds?  So that's a reduction of about .3 -.5 seconds.  Our group heals are the main two heals that would show any benefit.

 Here is what i was trying to say:

Spell line AA:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Faster heals, Bigger heals. (-per Somatic)'

Same or close DPS (-per Gobbwin)'

==========================================

So in other words, you get the best of both worlds.  You get same or close DPS, + bigger and faster heals.

Again, you don't get bigger heals from the INT line, that is from another line.

Where if you go DPS melee line, that's all you get.
Not exactly, you get an offensive debuff similar to Forced Submission, that stacks with it.  You can get 4 abilitys that interrupt/stun mobs (2 attacks, 1 proc, and 1 10 sec stun).  This can help significantly when soloing.  However, the INT line does provide you with an attack that interrupts/knocks the mob down.  Also if you distribute your AAs slightly differently than the 'norm' dps build, you can max crit heals, so you get bigger heals and melee DPS.

Please advise the flaw in this view.  I'm very open minded but your own statements do not lead to your conclusion of both lines being equal. 

As stated before I'm unsure until i see hard evidence of DPS. Which no one has presented.
Hard evidence would be:
Gear worn -- so people could debate the slot choices.
Spell crit AAs
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing Melee build has in it's favor is it is easier less time consuming to pull off the DPS. 
Spell Build sounds more for the hardcore.  Which is logical since the Hardcore would be the ones getting the Fabled spell proc gear.

This is just a view and as stated no hard factual evidence is presented. 
As was my statement on spell DPS, I've always went melee based.  Numerous reliable sources have stated their results w/ the spell DPS lines in other threads, they are who i was referencing.

Also I noticed in some post people make a statement like, my build does X dps...but then never say what build they are talking about.--That is not productive.
Nor is asking for advice then nit picking over the details, while provide 0 results of your own.  Skim the boards, numerous ppl have stated what their stats/AAs were and what their weapon was when they got melee DPS X.  Not many have stated the results of the crit spell lines because it is so random.  Mobs resist or interrupt spells a lot more than they do melee (unless it is immune to a particular kind of melee damage).

Message Edited by Somatic on 09-27-2006 07:23 PM

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In the end it's whatever you choose to best match your playstyle.  The AAs were never intended for there to be a "Best set up".  Sufficive to say, the numerous debates on both the inquis boards and the templar boards over the "best AA" set up should be proof of that.

[Somatic]

Gobbwin I have not made a post on data because I'm not in a position to . ie i'm not level 70.  Thus I MUST base my conclusions on facts I read here.  I am pretty close to 70, I'll prob be 70 and full speced aa in around a month.  So hence why I am very curious of finding out information now.Reducing Group heals Is nice.  I never said I was going down the int line.  To be honest I don't think of it as stat lines.The way I was coming up with the crit heals was simply this:+8 faster casting+8 bigger heals+8 spell crits -- (same line as faster casting--and this is why I think it is possible since you already have to spend 4)Maybe the above is not possible ( I thought it was, I counted it out in game and it seemed to be possible with 50 points but I have been wrong before)  if so you could reduce critical heals or spell crits by 1 or 2.I'm not even taking into consideration the +20 int you would get or whatever--> I don't think it matters much.Those same spell dps posts you speak of where not very informative on Parsed logs.  They would state very good information but lacked critical data.  Also in most of those posts the authors would say that int does not play a huge role the big thing is equipment and spell proc gear  (as by far the most important thing).You never address bigger heals.  I remember reading in a burried post that bigger heals can become huge with the right group setup that increases healing percent more.  You focused on the maybe minor benfit you gain with faster casting but not on the bigger heals.  Also I think the faster casting would help out our group AOE dmg spell which is slower.  Thus I could see a caster doing this:1) dot2) dot 3) dot  -- we get 3 dots.4) nuke -- single 5) nuke -- aoe---------------------------------------------------------every dot will have 3 or 4 chances to make the proc gear go off.   Lets say 3 to be conservative.3 + 3 + 3 = 9 chances + 2 chances from the nukes. = 11 chances for your proc gear to fire per cycle.  also 11 chances for spell crits to fire. I think there is some Potion dots you can use also. -- UNSURE, thus I don't add to the above equation.Now the argument you would give me against this is, Ohhhh but if your casting all these spells you can't heal so those heal AAs are pointless.The point is it lets you switch back and forth between better heals, faster heals, and accoridng to you...the SAME or Close DPS.Now I mean DPS line can give you all these little tricks, but net results is what I am looking at in DPS only.Maybe the argument you are trying to make is that the Melee lines DPS tricks is what enables a player to solo better?This could be very true. 

[Somatic]

Also if you count in we are throwing down:dot  .3dot  .3dot  .3Nuke -> .5AOe Nuke -> 1 _---------------- I am not sure I am not home if someone is at the game and can submit the delay pre-AAs or Post-AAs then we can get scientific numbers.the point is these times do add up.  Maybe 1 or 2 sec...What does that 1 or 2 sec let you do?Cast a heal maybe.  UNSURE tho.  When i get home tonight i'll test this to know for sure.