Verdict

[Jaradcel]

And er.... 0.0 why's my name blue? 0.0

[Shailen]

I think it'd be more useful if it was something like a 10-15 second duration spell.  Something we could cast and as a mobs HP drops it has a certain percentage chance of dropping the mobs HP to 1.

Sort of like a DOOM spell.

For "easy" mobs make it like 70%, avergage mobs 50%, hard mobs 25% and raid mobs 5%.  The "sweet spot" as far as probability would be exactly where the percentages currently are (50,25,10,2), but at least this way there is a chance of it having a larger impact.

Have it work such that you cast the spell as the mob nears the given percentage (you can cast it before its HP is there if you want).  The spell then stays up for something like 10-20 seconds.  During that time, once the mob hits the designated % there is a CHANCE that its HP will drop to 1, increasing as its HP drop, up to the point that it finally gets to (50,25,10,2) at which point its 100% chance and the HP drops to 1.  Leave the resist chances as is, that way this isn't an "every fight" kind of thing.

You then have several portions of this spell you could tweak on upgrade, up to and including the resist chances.

 

Other ideas I had include making this some kind of proc, or curse.  Maybe as DPS increases on the mob, there is a chance for it to drop its HP some amount (not neccesarily down to 1).  The curse of insanity is another nice touch, that doesn't have a player equivalent, maybe make our signature spell a player usable version of that.  And just set the death percentages comparable to the mob type, so that it would only work on raid mobs like .0001% of the time (not that it would matter since raid mobs never use their power).

I saw rift in action last night, and wow, it blew my mind how amazing that spell can be at times.  I just can't envision any situation where even if the setup was perfect verdict would be as nice a spell as that.

[Jaradcel]

What's rift do? And curse of insanity? (-- makes it clear he's not an officer who needs to know these things )The idea of a debuff works as well. Currently our "on death" line is a debuff.

[Shailen]

Rift is this great big giant AE spell that Warlocks get at level 65.  To be sure its not an everytime use sorta spell, I'm pretty sure its blue background, so it can only be used in specific situations, but when a pack of say 20 vvv mobs are on the MT, 1 rift cast and 1 devastation (or some other classes blue AE) and the ENTIRE thing is dead in about 5 seconds.  Saw this in Halls of Fate last night and it was insane.As for Curse of Insanity.  Its a spell that is cast by a couple of mobs in the Court of Alafaz.  Its an elemental effect that can't be cured.  After you've been cursed, every time you cast a spell, you take 70% of the spells power cost in damage.  The other side effect is that every time you cast, there is a random small chance your brain explodes and you instantly die.  The likely hood of your brain exploding is directly linked to the amount of power you have left.  The less power you have, the higher the odds that when you cast a spell your head explodes.  Its quite interesting when your MT has this on him and has full health and the fight is going great, then BAM, dead tank.Obviously the curse in its current form would be overpowered if a player could cast it, but I think the idea of it would be something neat to work with as a basis, as it does sorta similar stuff to verdict.  Its impact on raid mobs as i said would be mitigated by the fact that raid mobs have infinite power.

[Brus]

Verdict isn't perfect and it might not be as good as some other classes 65 spell but man I love it.  I went the undead route in AA's and I go to Bonemire and tear up the single up arrow undeads like nothing.   It's group and raid useage is definetly highly limited though I've used it successfully in both areas.  Part of me keeps thinking this thing is almost overpowered and then they go and make it more useful by reducing the set up timer on it.My only beef with this spell is there's no log record for it.  No damage done, no spell text unless it's resisted.  I'd really like to see some notice of it.  I think if we were going to make it as useful as other level 65 spells a bit more tweaking would be necessary.  I think the percentages might get raised a bit, 5% epics, 15 or 20% heroic, 25% is fine for normal, 50% is generous on weaker mobs.  Really the most limited place is on heroic mobs.  With a good group there's no way you can make 10% stick, even with the new faster set up time coming, I've never been in a group that can't make that last 10% just dissapear in a couple seconds.I'm also kind of curious about an implementation detail.  It says heroics are 10%, great.  Does that mean labelled heroic, triple up arrows mobs only, or what?  For example, some swarm mobs are labelled heroic but are actually a huge number of triple down arrow mobs.  Groups of 3 single up arrow mobs, 3 no arrow mobs, etc.. are labelled heroic.  So does that mean I have to wait until 10% on these or what?  My guess from experimenting is that it's based on the arrows and not the label.  If so that makes this spell just double effective.  Certainly make Poets Return a lot more fun for us.Sohr65 Inquisitor60 WeaponsmithInfinity Guild OfficerOasis Server

[Kyo]

I'd just like something that can be noticed after casting.. That'd be sweet. I know the argument that if you can notice it it's game breakingohnoes but I can't help but desire a noticed effect.

[DuvB]

I vote trash it and just give us an out of group aoe heal  :smileyvery-happy:  that would be different and great for raids lol

[Shailen]

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DuvBre wrote:

I vote trash it and just give us an out of group aoe heal  :smileyvery-happy:  that would be different and great for raids lol

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I agree, to the post 2 up, our signiture spell shoudl not be one that we can say we can't use on heroics or epics... sure it has some limited use.  Thats NOT the definition of a class defining signature spell.since I got this spell 2 weeks ago, I can count the number of non solo times I've used this spell on 1 hand.  And one of thsoe was trioing names with a tank and another healer.

[Demoniac]

I agree... I would rather than get some healing spells or some other spells...

 

here is my questions..

 

question 1. so once I cast it on a raid mob his total hitpoints gonna be decrease for a mount. according to the ACT, once I use it on the same raid mobs, his hitpoints are even higher than i don't cast it. why is that? and how does it work.

 

question 2. what's the during? I was been told it's permanent decrease a raid mob like 2% so it's a damage spell? does it mean a mob has a million hitpoints, and I cast verdict on the mob, his total hitpoints will be 98k? it's permanent removed his hitpoints or no?

 

question 3. how do I know the raid mob resisted it or not. all what i can see is i cast it on the raid mob, I lost some power, nothing happens. I cast it again. lost some power again. nothing happens:smileysurprised:

 

question 4. do they stacks? like you have 2 inquisitor in the raid. both of them cast it on the mob what gonna happen??

 

anyone can answer me these questions? thanks much :smileysad:

[Shailen]

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Demoniac wrote:

I agree... I would rather than get some healing spells or some other spells...

 

here is my questions..

 

question 1. so once I cast it on a raid mob his total hitpoints gonna be decrease for a mount. according to the ACT, once I use it on the same raid mobs, his hitpoints are even higher than i don't cast it. why is that? and how does it work.

 

question 2. what's the during? I was been told it's permanent decrease a raid mob like 2% so it's a damage spell? does it mean a mob has a million hitpoints, and I cast verdict on the mob, his total hitpoints will be 98k? it's permanent removed his hitpoints or no?

 

question 3. how do I know the raid mob resisted it or not. all what i can see is i cast it on the raid mob, I lost some power, nothing happens. I cast it again. lost some power again. nothing happens:smileysurprised:

 

question 4. do they stacks? like you have 2 inquisitor in the raid. both of them cast it on the mob what gonna happen??

 

anyone can answer me these questions? thanks much :smileysad:

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Its a FINISHING spell only.  You can only use it once the health of the mob is below the given %s.  You can tell if it worked by seeing the gavil graphic.  If that shows up then it worked.  However that doesn't mean it DID anything.  Its possible the mob dies before the HP actually drop to 1.  This is the case I'm seeing 99% of the time.  Everything except under DPSed groups or soloers (I guess that includes us) is generally able to do 2%, 10% etc in that amount of time.I was thinking about this last night.  I know from parses that my guilds raids do around 8k DPS generally on a single target mob.  That means that in the 2 seconds it takes to use this spell (I'm adding .5 seconds for the time to pick up that the mob is at 2% and actually hit the hot key and have the spell fire) the mob has to have at least 16k HP left for it to even have a chance of landing.  This would mean that the mob would have to have around 800k HP.  In DoF there were less  than 6 mobs with that many HP.  You can do a similar comparison on heroic and solo mobs.  I know that my solo DPS for instance ends up in the high 200 range, varying from about 240-300 based on resists, etc.  Now obviously 25% is an improvement for me, as there's no way that the mob only has 2000HP or so, but many average con mobs in the 60s have probably 5k-6k HP, this means that I save myself a whole 3-4seconds or so per kill.I mean I'm starting to realize that these aren't EVERY fight kind of spells, but I'd like when I DO use it, that its a significant impact.  Fine, only let me use it maybe 5% of fights, but make it so when i use it on those fights it makes a REAL impact.  Otherwise make the impact less, but substantial enough that I can throw this into my regular arsenal of spells.  As is, this spell get relogated to the far end of my hotbars with my other "oh cr^p" kinda spells.  Those spells once in a blue moon you pull out when everything is going to heck.

[Brus]

There's an easy way to get more healing spells as an Inqi instead of this level 65 spell.  Betray and become a Templar.I'd like to see a bit more utility out of this spell but I solo a lot and lately have taken to killing the level 70 solo up arrows in Carrion Briar and this spell is an always cast, saves me time, HP, power, etc...  I really like it.    On raid and heroics it's a bit more situational though it's saved my bacon more than a couple times in those situations now.  Especially in KoS where most of the named mobs are heroic and have a huge number of HP what it allows me to do is take them with a much smaller group.  Yes an ideal group with heavy DPS makes this spell worthless but two to four characters with not so great DPS now fights 75% of the same mob.However I should stop being so fanboi about it.  I've been looking at other level 65 spells and I'm thinking we kind of got the shaft on this one, though I still kind of like it.Here's a nice combo for you, if you solo or fight a lot of undead:Blackscale Maul - if you don't have this hammer get it, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it rocks.Undead tier 3 to level 4Planar earring of the wandererWith that combination including our usual assortment of spells (Act line in particular), I was able to get a single hit to roughly 1700 points of damage.  The hammer hit for around 800 on it's own, Act proc'd, Cleanse Undead proc'd, the earring proc'd and here's the fun part.  The earring proc is considered a series of melee attacks, 2 of the attacks proc'd cleanse undead and act  proc'd on one of them again.My thought on this and I can't confirm it, is that the as we know from before proc's are normalized against a 3 second delay so a higher delay weapon proc's more often than a faster one.  I *think* that the melee proc from the earring effectively uses your weapon as the basis for it's attack.  I've noticed since using the maul that my proc rate on the earring is just silly and that the earring melee attacks are proc'ing my other proc's at least once.So that's been my strategy especially with Verdict.  Start off the fight with a smite to slow the mob.  Toss on our reactive damage spells.  Toss up a reactive heal, melee it to 25%, hit with a hammer smite to finish it off.  With our power proc and low mana useage on those spells, it's pretty much non-stop combat.  Granted it's highly situational, against undead, must have proper smite, etc... but it works and the situation isn't uncommon.Sohr66 Inquisitor60 WeaponsmithInfinity Guild OfficerOasis Server

[Ssinu]

I was fooling around with this spell last night using my Guardian boyfriend as a target. Verdict Adept I pretty much wont even land on an even con in pvp - even if that person has taken off half his gear... I fooled around with it in beta and although it worked at the weak level (50% < hps), I also had it at Master I level. So, I'm guessing we will hear more as the Inquisitors of the PvP server get high enough to use it, but I was wondering if anyone here has dueling experiences to share?I agree with the above a) I wish the damage was attributed to us and/or b) something to indicate it went off. I can see the 'banished by the gods' text, but it would be nice if someone besides you knew it.As far as asking for more heals or whatever, it is perfectly valid. I love my class and don't intend on switching to Templar - so I come here to discuss it. Just as templars discuss their class and what they would like to see improved on their boards... There are 6 healing classes and we certainly aren't always the 2nd best. If there were a bug or a discrepancy with our level of effectiveness compared to our peers, I certainly hope it would be discussed here first. Asking for more heals is just as valid as asking for other things like more dps, more debuffs or more ways to solo, as long as its done in the civil manner that most of us have come to expect on these boards.

[Brus]

Certainly not trying to be uncivil about saying switch to Templar.  Just indicating that if you want the maximum pure healing you should switch to that class.  When it comes to healing, nothing but healing, and huge numbers in the healing department this is where you're going to have to go.  The concept for Inquisitor is similar but different.All fights, including these fantasy fights, are based on a pretty simple formula.  You must be able to do more damage (DPS) vs the opponents hit points than s/he can do vs. your hit points.  Healing skews the formula by basically providing you with more HP so you can have a low relative DPS compared to your opponent because you have vastly more hit points.  You can lower the DPS of the mob by any number of means including self-mitigation, stuns, etc... which means your relative DPS/HP total increases (or the opponents decreases it's all perspective).... anyway without going into an overlong mathematical breakdown of how this works, the inqi and the temp role are similar but different.  Temps vastly increase your relative HP with greater mitigation and healing.  Inqi's do this by increased damage and healing.  Hence our Verdict spell, lop off 25% or so of a mob and it's relative HP vs. your DPS is a whole different ratio.  Hence our reactive damage spells, etc...  if you want to play a class that affects that formula the Templar way, knock yourself out.  Of course I'll probably get flamed for this but oh well.I love my class to, that's why it irks me to see inqi's wishing they were more like pansy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Templars (said with a smile, put your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] level 65 hammers back in your pants).  Frankly I am 100% positive I am either equal to or can outheal any comparably equipped Templar any day of the week (except Sunday mornings, I like to sleep in late).  It's just a matter of defining what is a heal.   By my definition wizards are some of the greatest healers out there.  By strict class definition I'm a crazy loon.  Okay, reality, both definitions are true.End note, I still love verdict.  Love to see it tweaked a bit but I could live with it in it's current state.Sohr66 Inquisitor60 WeaponsmithInfinity Guild OfficerOasis Server

[Ssinu]

Certainly not trying to be uncivil myself and you are right debuffs/dps all help in getting mobs hps to 0. However, I hesitate because as Banditman and other Shaman have wrestled with -- in a game where so much information is hidden from us balancing classes with debuffs is a bad idea... Its like that avoidance Achievement we get. It could be great or it could suck or not work and I wouldn't know. Unfortunately that is the case for a lot of our abilities. For example, repentance line - we all knew it wasn't proc'ing much for a long long time. Until they did the update where NPC's started acutally using all their abilities and more did we only start to see it work. That's my personal issue with the whole "more debuffs" thing. Doesn't mean I don't want them I just want more info to be displayed, but I respect someone who asks for more of anything whether thats heals/dps/debuffs.

I don't think asking for more heals is being like a templar, to me its being like a cleric or a healer - who says we don't need a boost in healing and a boost in debuffs? I don't - because I don't know...not enough data. I can only discuss and infer from what we see in game. Right now my hot button issue is reactives stacking. It pains me to no end that they don't because of the loss of another heal timer.

As far as verdict goes, it works for sure and reducing it to 1sec is a good step - I agree with other posters though it should have some visible effect/dps attributed to us or work like a Curse. That would be nice.

[Adorya]

Well, tested a bit this spell and here what I noticed about it :- tried on various mobs, and here is the general pattern, for exemple :a Brokentusk pawn lvl 9 solo - 25%3 x a Brokentusk pawn lvl 9 solo -- 50%2 x a Brokentusk pawn lvl 9 solo -- 50%a Lonetusk sentry lvl 13 solo - 25%a Lonetusk sentry lvl 14 heroic ++ 10%a Lonetusk shaman lvl 14 heroic ++ 10%Gurrekt Lonetusk lvl 17 heroic +++ 10%a Rujarkian advisor lvl 16 solo - 25%a nightblood seeker lvl 41 heroic +++ 10%2 x a shadowed deconstructor lvl 43 heroic ++ 25%3 x a shadowed deconstructor lvl 43 heroic + 25%4 x a shadowed deconstructor lvl 43 heroic + 25%I am lvl 66, so they all con grey, but verdict follow the same rules whatever level the mob you fight and whatever number they are :weak = down arrow x 2  = 50%certain = any solo +/- = 25%strong = any heroic (even pet) = 10%epic = your usual named x2 x3 x4 = 1%If you cast before the required %, you have the 45s recast time.If you cast after the required %, you can still get resisted if you face yellow+ mobs, with a recast time of 5s.The big problem I noticed is that if you have a dot/ds/proc on your mob while casting Verdict, and he get damage before Verdict is done, the spell will be simply cancelled, and you will get the 45s recast time.The cast reduction won't help in anything since I usually use Flame/Scourge/Vengeance/Compell at the same time, I need to cancel all those to just see a nifty hammer effect "a la Phoenix Wright style".../sigh

[Tarta]

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Adorya wrote:

The big problem I noticed is that if you have a dot/ds/proc on your mob while casting Verdict, and he get damage before Verdict is done, the spell will be simply cancelled, and you will get the 45s recast time.The cast reduction won't help in anything since I usually use Flame/Scourge/Vengeance/Compell at the same time, I need to cancel all those to just see a nifty hammer effect "a la Phoenix Wright style".../sigh

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I have not noticed dots, etc... preventing this spell from doing it's work. It does sometimes get resisted, and I also don't see any information in the logs about what happened or didn't happen with this spell. IMO, this is the biggest problem with the spell - it needs to register when it is resisted or successful and, if successful, how much damage it did.

I have sorta been poo-pooing this spell to my friends since it's extremely hard to use in a group, and then it happened. We were fighting the last named in HoF last night when he took out the other healer (we were both spamming heals, mind you). I am concentrating on the MT as all other members are being slowly eaten away faster than my group heals can fix them. Then, the tank goes down, followed a couple dps... our brigand snares him and starts running as is his habit when a wipe is coming. I look up and notice that the mob is now at 8% health, so I start casting Verdict and *fizzle* and resist... oh great... but he's still after the brigand, so 3 seconds pass and I cast it again, and sure enough a big gavel shows up and takes out the mob. That was really sort of thrilling to pull it off at the very last moment from the jaws of defeat

The spell is very situational as it exists today. I do, however, value it in my bag of tricks. Would I like something that I could use all the time like fusion, sure, but there are a lot of classes with 65 spells that are very situational - like the furys call of storms, and many others.

I hope the upcoming cast time reduction make this spell a little more useful, in general, but I'd like to keep it around.

Tarta - 67 inq - Guk server

 

 

[Adorya]

You do get a message "You tried to cast Verdict on Soandso, but Soandso resisted" if you cast in the required %, however you see nothing if you use before the required %.Also you can clearly see when the spell is applying, even with no particles spell enabled : you will see yourself casting while a big blue hammer appear and strike. If the hammer doesnt finish his animation (which is like Compliance line), that mean the spell has been cancelled or the mob is dead.A simple test is to put your mob to the required %, use Verdict then immediately use Scourge while not attacking, you will see the animation stopped and the mob hp not at 1%.

[Tarta]

ok, that's the thing - you cannot cast for 2.5 seconds (soon to be 1.5 seconds after LU um... 20?) after you cast the spell. It's an insta-cast, but has this weird 2.5 second delay afterwards that most other spells don't have. Existing DOTs should not have an adverse effect on Verdict, altho I suspect something like chilling inquest proc'ing during that 2.5 seconds might also cancel the effect of Verdict. I think more research on my part is required here...

 

Tarta - 67 inqui - Guk server

 

[Troysmith]

I don't see why the spell can't be an instant cast and last for X amout of seconds. If the mob's health reaches the target in that X amount of time then the spell triggers.

[drkthings]

Amen Kagor.50 Posts later we are still banging our heads trying to come up with situations and circumstances to use this spell.Are other classes having to gather their best collective genius to find a use for their own level 65 spells?darcyleAB - journeymen of the overlord - 70 inq 6X ww

[Ssinu]

Landed just fine on Hurricanus at Adept 1 ><, but yes its totally situational. A few of the other 65 spells have issues too so I think a review is in order not just with outs, but with the 1 second change and the hint about the blue hammer graphic I have been using it more often.

[Troysmith]

As far as landing on mobs the spell is fine, it worked on Harla Dar too. It is just the whole timing issue.

[Octilius]

The only time I have found this useful is 1 grouping the x2 in temple of scale, and in pedastal of the sky, where half of our dps is on the other dragon.  These are the only raid mobs I could get a proc off of.  It's kind of sad.  Wish they changed it a bit so it would be a debuff that lasts on the mob (kinda like heretics demise) and would proc once the mob hit the %age it needed to.....Maybe in a future update ^_^.

[Adorya]

Another fun fact with Verdict while I was taking a tour in SC :Yes, there is 2 hammers, that mean on a multi encounter if all mobs are on the required health % they will all get affected by the spell, but who is ever going to put down to 10% each mob (would rather kill one by one)?edit: ignore the UI level bug, though this level is just a matter of time in 2 or 3 expansion :p

Message Edited by Adorya on 03-26-200612:16 AM

[Chog]

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Adorya wrote:

Yes, there is 2 hammers, that mean on a multi encounter if all mobs are on the required health % they will all get affected by the spell, but who is ever going to put down to 10% each mob (would rather kill one by one)?

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Berserkers :smileytongue: