Needed Inquisitor Changes - Discuss

[Blackgr]

Hello fellow Inquisitors,

 

Our class board has been really quiet as of late...  Is this due to there not being many of us and not alot talking or there not being anything to gripe and complain about??

 

I have played this class since launch and really like it. 

 

I know my place in raids as the DPS healer.  I love being in an all scout group with just me as the healer and the ability keep them all alive the entire raid.

 

Love all around, blah blah blah...  So what do we need as a class??

 

Personal opinions:

 

1.  Debuffs need to be made a bit more powerful.  We don't get as many heals as the Templar does so make the debuffs mean something.

 

2.  Slight tweak up in damage.  I think the "Flames" line should be changed to every second instead of every 4 seconds.  This one change would add some DPS to us.

 

3.  Current buffs need to be brought up a bit also I think.

 

Thoughts??

 

Gyfbane - 62 Inquisitor - Dark Blood - Crushbone

[RedFeather]

I always felt that the Inquisitor, especially in the higher levels, becomes a coercer/cleric hybrid.We share many of the spell styles that coercer's have.It would be nice to have that aspect of our class explored a bit more in the future.Verdict wasn't such a hot addition, from what I read.

[Shailen]

I tend to disagree, I think from a healing/debuff standpoint they've done quite enough tweaking, i really have nothing to complain about there.My sole issue is with our "class defining" spells.  Quite honestly Zealotry and Fanaticism are worthless class spells compared to other classes, and Verdict just didn't get fleshed out well as an idea into an actual skill.Then theirs the OTHER part of our class defining abilities, or specialty heals (reactives) that don't stack worth a dime.Any of these issues should be address loooong before another look at our debuffs or straight heals.  Those aspects WORK, and even if they could be tweaked, that should be done after all of our abilities are working correctly.

[Ravaan]

I don't know maybe its just because im a lower level (just level 30) but man i think we could use a bit more damage on our spells.

[Listad12]

Inquisitors are a hybrid healing class. We HEAL and do a "little" debuff. I don't think we need more powerful debuffs. If you don't like it, be a defiler.

DPS ? C'mon guys, its a healer class.

 

 

[Salom]

Hi, yes I think Inquisitor need more DPS. As an evil class we need more efficient destructives powers, nuke and DOT, or/and a line of summon Demon spells to be use as pet

Nonetheless, I have fun playing like it is today.

[Mathe]

Inquisitor debuffs are quite good. My main is a Swashbuckler, too. Granted they aren't as good as Swashbuckler's debuffs, but Rogues are the debuff class in the game. Comparitively among Priests, the damage isn't that bad. Easily out does Templar and Mystic (never played a Defiler, so can't comment on their damage), and with debuffs already attached to their skills they do even more naturally.

Besides check the AA for Clerics, there are a whole lot of ways to improve damage in them. Practically every line has some damage boosting ability or another. The Exorcist ones are quite massive for a Priest (though they only work on undead).

[DuvB]

Honestly the only thing I would like to see would be better more powerful group buffs.  I'm a healer, I don't need to dps or tank, just make me a better support role.

[Jaradcel]

I agree that our main class-spells need a good looking at. While Zealotry/Fanaticism *IS* near useless, there *ARE* very specific circumstances when it becomes useful (raid about to wipe, burning down the mob at 2%, that extra haste comes in handy) but there aren't nearly enough of them, and we certainly don't seem to fire it off as frequently as other classes fire off theirs. (Assasinate, Harm Touch, Ice Comet et al)Verdict, as we've been mentioning in the other thread, could do with some serious tweaking. Awesome idea in theory, terrible implementation. Check out the other thread if you haven't already for our comments on the spell.I think allowing our reactives to stack with temps would be a step in the right direction, but as Shailon mentioned, our heals WORK. Why touch 'em? And while personally I'd like to see a lot more group-wide debuffs (Only the "Forced" line does that right now along with Litany and our "Cleansing" line) it isn't as high a priority for me.I read SOE's ideas for us, and wonder... I'm a PLATE wearing crusader for the Faith. Last I looked at the Crusaders, they kicked ALOOTTAAA [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] back in the Crusades (No offense to the Muslims/Jews here mind.... I'm just saying for priests in plate, they did do alot of good thwacking with their maces back then) and the same for the Space Marines/Britonnian's in the Warhammer series.Of course, this is SOE's world and they can do whatever the hell they want with it... but it seems odd that shammies can outdps us (a DD spell for 1000 damage? /cries in corner) easily, especially given our lessened healing ability.hm... actually, on thinking. Perhaps debuffs COULD do with a slightly shorter cast timer. I find I generally cast them on long fights, but since I'm usually the main cleric, it becomes hard for me to fire off debuffs when I'm also busy keeping the tank alive. Temps have no such issues of course....

[Blackgr]

I see alot of different responses which makes me think, do we actually know what our class is supposed to do???

 

We are a healer yes... we get 5 heals (reactive heal, single heal, big single heal, group reactive heal, group heal) plus 2 instants.  Is that enough??

 

We get debuffs - In regular grouping I am hard pressed to get one off while fighting as mobs go down so quick.  Shorter casting time needed??

 

We get some damage spells - DOT's, single and group nuke and our specials the "repentance" and "vengence" lines.

 

We get some crowd control - root, fear, stun

 

What defines us?? And is it enough to make us stand out and want people to group with us??

 

Just asking some questions so we can keep this going and if something is missing or broken lets get it fixed in the next LU.

 

 

Gryfbane

[Salom]

I agree with you.

Our debuffs aren't enough easy to use in fights. Reducing casting time and group debuff instead of single target could help us enjoying our powers. If we can't debuff templar are better in group than us.

For T7 spells I don't understand why there's no new Direct Heal spell (except Master II, but only 15% more heal than in Adpet III), no new DD spell, no new HP buff, New DOT spells dont seems to help us. T7 spells are a bit poor, just few upgrades. But may be enough to keep balance between players and mobs.

 

[Shailen]

---

Salomee wrote:

I agree with you.

Our debuffs aren't enough easy to use in fights. Reducing casting time and group debuff instead of single target could help us enjoying our powers. If we can't debuff templar are better in group than us.

For T7 spells I don't understand why there's no new Direct Heal spell (except Master II, but only 15% more heal than in Adpet III), no new DD spell, no new HP buff, New DOT spells dont seems to help us. T7 spells are a bit poor, just few upgrades. But may be enough to keep balance between players and mobs.

 

---

There's no direct heal because all the spells are on a 14 level cycle.  We got our direct heals at 57 and 60, so they won't get upgraded until 71 and 74.

The exceptions to the 14 level cycle are what are generally referred to as "class defining" spells.  These are the combination of signature spells (the one off spells at 52,55,58,65) and our supposedly "power" spell (these are the 50 and 70 spells that are supposed to tie heavily into a class primary roll).  These are the spells that are supposed to make us unique as a class

The issue, at least among the high end folks I've spoken with, is that we hold up fine on the cleric front, we do our primary function of healing well.  From this perspective I couldn't be happier.  The problem is that all of the "special" spells (those that are set up outside the 14 level cycle because they are well... special) fall down squarely on their face compared to other classes.  Its really a detriment that the spells that are supposed to define us as unique as compared to even our cleric bretheren (templars) are so obsurdly useless.  Are the devs trying to tell us that the unique part of our class is that we have no real purpuse.  We're the vanilla healers of healers, and we don't do that quite as well as templars who get their specials as heals?

I love the concept they are going for with Inquisitors.  That being the fanatical healing inspiration behind a group.  We push our groups to do more, and we supress our enemies (hastes, debuffs, judgement spells).  I like the concept, but not one of them is playing out in a manner that makes more than a marginal impact at best.  Whereas almost every other class in the game clearly succeeds at using its specials to set up what its unique characteristics are.  Not to harp on it, but Warlocks and wizards, they each have a unique type of nuke.  Ones AE, the others single target.  Their specials play our their character.  Assassins, well they assassinate.  Again, I think SOE has the right IDEA with how our spells fit with the charcter they are trying to give the class, but they are failing in making them useful in anyway.

[Salom]

Yes, Blackgryf, we have a lot of debuff, but there are so many spells to cast that we have to choice between heal and debuff. So debuff/DOT are usually unused.

Try solo mobs, our debuffs/DOT/DMG spells are really long to take effects and long to stack. Group Fights are not long enough 95% of the time to make our spells so helpfull. And Inquisitor is really bad at solo.

Heal spells sounds ok right now, but other line spells are too weak. May be cause of casting time, and DOT/DMG line spells should deal DMG more quickly.

Crowd control spells : root is usually of no help. I rarely use Fear (may be I could try more often). Stun spell as a long recast time.

So I think we can only really use our DEBUFF/DMG only when fight is easy and mobs as a lot of HP. I enjoy using my Master I zélotisme (48% speed) to help the group but I can do it only when fights are easy too.

That's why I enjoy when there is another Inquiistor or Templar in group, I let him be main healer so I can use debuff/DMG/haste spell.

So, if SOE can help us using our Debuff/DMG/haste spells more often I will really enjoy it. Intelligence AA  is a way for it, but I think it has not to be the only choice.

[Percuvil]

My take on our Debuffs.  Honestly, I do not see/experience much of a difference whether I use them or not.   Based on the type of encounter, the mobs go down just as fast, or just as slow whether I mash the debuff icons or not.  The amount of healing I need to afford the MT seems to be more dictated by the level and the gear the particular MT has at the time, not whether I debuff the encounter.   Never took the time to parse all this - I am just talking real time experience.   If we do not notice a real difference when using our powers then they should be adjusted.

 

My major concern are our class defining powers:

 

Zealotry -  Very rarely use it.  Seems a waste to just stand there stifled doing nothing.

 

Convert - Not even on my hotbar.  It uses all my mana to the point I am useless.

 

Verdict - I am not level appropriate to use yet, however, everything I have seen thus far suggests that mobs are usually dead by the time the spell actually goes off.   It sounds like it will be rarely used.

 

Just once, I would like to have something that makes others take notice or give me a reason to say " yeah, yeah I'm bad"

[Shailen]

---

Percuvil wrote:

My take on our Debuffs.  Honestly, I do not see/experience much of a difference whether I use them or not.   Based on the type of encounter, the mobs go down just as fast, or just as slow whether I mash the debuff icons or not.  The amount of healing I need to afford the MT seems to be more dictated by the level and the gear the particular MT has at the time, not whether I debuff the encounter.   Never took the time to parse all this - I am just talking real time experience.   If we do not notice a real difference when using our powers then they should be adjusted.

 

My major concern are our class defining powers:

 

Zealotry -  Very rarely use it.  Seems a waste to just stand there stifled doing nothing.

 

Convert - Not even on my hotbar.  It uses all my mana to the point I am useless.

 

Verdict - I am not level appropriate to use yet, however, everything I have seen thus far suggests that mobs are usually dead by the time the spell actually goes off.   It sounds like it will be rarely used.

 

Just once, I would like to have something that makes others take notice or give me a reason to say " yeah, yeah I'm bad"

---

Not sure why you put convert in there.  Might just be your experience, but in regard to your first comment on just going with whats noticable, convert is HUGE.  Forget the fact that I can parse 15%-20% higher on a raid, but even in a group, grinding from 60-70 I often times opted to solo heal a grind group and take a 5th for DPS.  Convert was key to us killing mobs 4-6 levels higher than us.  You really NEED to offset it though with inquest and high regen drinks/gear.

As for the visual impact thing.  If you look at parses, which is I suspect SOE does to some extent in playtesting certain changes, you will notice that many of these things that aren't directly noticable have a significant impact.  To change them to a degree that makes them noticable would make some of them overpowered.

As an example.  I find it tough just watching on the speed of a mobs death in group or solo if Sentence has any effect (and this is at master 1 mind you).  However if you scroll back through your combat logs and look at 2 fights against identical mobs, using the exact same damage spells, one with sentence up and one without, you will see that the damage numbers are larger with sentence up.  Will this make the fight noticably shorter, likely not but it is a significant impact.  If it was made large enough that you noticed the fights being shorter it would be overpowered.  The key  is in the overall usage over time. Either a raid mob, or in a few hours of combined use grouping.  For instance, in an hour of dungeon grinding, how many extra encounters do you pull because you saved 2-3 seconds on this encounter or that.  Thats likely another 4-5 encounters and another percent xp without vitality or a few percent with.

On raid mobs you can see it as the agrigate of 24 people all using little tiny spells that by themselves don't seem to have much of a noticable impact, but together are huge.  I've seen the autoattack output of a raid mob drop from 7k-9k to 2k-3.5k solely based on the debuffs of an entire raid landing.  Any ONE of these debuffs in a solo setting likely won't even be noticable, but when they add together and suddenly the mob has 200 less strength and its offensive abilities dropped a bunch, it becomes significant.

I guess the frustrating thing in all these comments about debuffs and DPS is that my feeling is that we 1) aren't a DPS class, why do people want more DPS, we'd only get it at the detriment of one of our core abilities and 2) its not that our debuffs couldn't maybe use some work, but even if they DO need work, I'd say they are about 95% of the way there and why waste all the time and effort getting them just perfect, when there are HUGE pieces of our core intent, that aren't even close to 100% .

As with anything, diminishing returns would seem to imply that you focus the same amount of effort (man hours) on the areas with the largest room for improvement, to get the greatest overall gain.  Sure the devs could spend 20 hours getting the debuffs that are 95% of what they could be to 98%, or they could spend that same time getting our special skills from 50% of what they could be, to 85%.  (yes I just totally made those numbers up, its just to get the idea across, we need to prioritize.  I feel that we have some severely broken areas, and to focus on debuffs would be at the greater detriment of those areas)

[Blackgr]

I mention debuffs only in respect that it was what differentiated us from Templars.  It used to be Templars buff, Inquisitors debuff; like the difference between Troubs and Dirges.

As it stands now I don't know what to think about the direction of the class.  We have the lowest posts amongst Priests and the second lowest amongst all classes.  This makes think that maybe no one is paying attention to us.

Shailen please with respect lay out your path forward to sprucing up the Inquisitor class.  I started this to get everyone's ideas and hopes so that a dev might see it and go "HUH, may be we have been neglecting them??"

I do say that we have the most mature discussions of any class board for sure.

--Gryfbane

[menelaus109]

Interesting post and some interesting responses, ill add my thoughtsConvert - OMG! how can you not use this spell? i have it up all the time, power isnt an issue at all with inquest and the right equipmentDebuffs - i cant remember the last time i used one, enough saidHeals - Pretty good here, on raids i tend to parse just slightly behind the temp in the MT group and usually above any other temps in the raidUtility - someone mentioned a cleric/coercer combination before and thats probably the description id use, when groupng as the second healer i normally keep an eye for roamers to soothe them, adds to fear them and mages to stifle them.DPS - If i go all out, chain casting every damage spell i have i can pull around 150-200 DPS on a raid, around 150 DPS soloing, i would like to see this improved, a larger DD and a stronger DoT would help, however if i was geared for DPS i reckon we could do some pretty serious damageBlackscale maul + Zealotry +Aura line +AA ability that adds DPS +AA line thats adds melee crit + yaulp i could see this combination doing a lot of damage, over 1k per hit on a pretty regular basis (someone mentioned this already in another thread, cant remember where)Verdict - i was very excitied about this spell initally, although i dont have it yet inital reports dont look good, ill wait til i have it and get chance to play around with it a bit before making a judegementOverall i think the Inq class is one of the most well rounded and least bugged, because of this we dont get a lot of attention, ive given up looking over the class changes on the update notes becase nothing every affects usI enjoy playing my class and thats all that really matters to me, there are some improvements id like to see made like changes to zealotry and maybe verdict but overall i think we are pretty solid

[Shailen]

---

Blackgryf wrote:

I mention debuffs only in respect that it was what differentiated us from Templars.  It used to be Templars buff, Inquisitors debuff; like the difference between Troubs and Dirges.

As it stands now I don't know what to think about the direction of the class.  We have the lowest posts amongst Priests and the second lowest amongst all classes.  This makes think that maybe no one is paying attention to us.

Shailen please with respect lay out your path forward to sprucing up the Inquisitor class.  I started this to get everyone's ideas and hopes so that a dev might see it and go "HUH, may be we have been neglecting them??"

I do say that we have the most mature discussions of any class board for sure.

--Gryfbane

---

Well I mentioned it on one of these threads, but to itemize as bulletpoints (I can make a powerpoint presentation later if SOE would like a presentation    j/k)

-Fix reactive stacking, pure and simple.  Doesn't need to be in parallel, heck, if you can find a way to do it that isn't serial, I'm fine with that, but make it so that if you have 2 clerics in a group/raid and both cast their reactive, they get SOMETHING positive as a result, rather than simply overwriting and wasting power, or worse "will not take effect messages"

-Make our level 50/70 spells really define our use.  So when people say they want an inquis, they say they want them for spell X (I'm not saying Zeal and Fanat, because they might change it altogether, I don't know).  When someone says they want a warlock, they imply they want something like devastation.  If the intent is to have us "inspire" our group/raidmates to greater things, then make it such that it doesn't take away from our ability to preform our core abilities, and make it good enough so its the first thing or one of the first things people think of when they are thinking what an Inquisitor (specificaly and not cleric in general) would be good for.

-Make our signature spells identify us as unique from Templars, but also have significant functionality.  (aka: make it worth putting in a hotbar)  To some extent this IS true.  I don't think the T6 versions are too too far off, I mean every class has a dud or two.

       *Heresy isn't great, but I can overlook it.

        *Convert is just right.  I love it and wouldn't want a thing to change about it, lest it be less useful, or more overpowered.

        *Fervent Focus.  I love being able to break stuns, I just wish it had parity with Sanctuary.  Everything that can be prevented can be broken, or vice versa.  The fact that sanc is group wide and focus is single target is also a bit of a disparity.

         *As for verdict, well, I really give the devs credit for going the right direction and having a unique and nice idea, I just think they failed in implimenting it.  Take that idea, kick it around a bit, and come back with something in the same spirit, but that I will actually use at some point, even if just 20% of the time

-Once this stuff is looked at I would take a step back, and see how the class is performing as a whole, see what the high and low usage areas are, see whats over and under powered.  Its very possible our focus will go away from debuffing a bit and more toward the inspiration idea, or perhaps debuffs will still be core.  Thats then the time to do any tweaking of debuffs if there need to be some, make them more/less powerful, based on how they fit in with the scope of everything else.

------------------------------

In regard to the number of posts, etc compared to other classes, don't forget that as a population we are in the lower half of classes as far as numbers.  Might even be bottom third, I haven't looked at the totals in a while.  Add to that the fact that despite all the stuff I just mentioned, we are in general, one of the least broken classes.  Just look at how often we show up in the patch notes, we aren't "broken" so often as other classes.  The nerf bat sure as hell doesn't swing our way often if ever and that I find is the source of a huge amount of the traffic on these forums.  Look at enchanters for example, they are a very low pop class, and I'd say 90% of their forum traffic deals with how completely hosed they are as a class, especially on raids.  I personaly think their gripes are warranted but thats a discussion for a different place, my point was simply that as a class with less to complain about, we generate less forum traffic.

The one very dissapointing thing, is that I can't recall the last time a dev posted on any thread here, that wasn't in regard to a bug.  We see dev posts particularly in the enchanter forums discussing design changes and opinions with people, because of how vocal they are.  Many of the concerns here among inquises have been long standing, we just won't make a stink to hi he11 about them, and thus I think we get overlooked somewhat for our civility.  As much as I'm sure the devs hate it, the complaining and moaning of some classes DOES get their attention.

(I think I just set a new personal best for longest winded, most excessively long post ever)

 

[DuvB]

I think that Convert is our only worthwhile "class defining" spell.  I have it buffed 24/7 and it never runs me out of power and I generally have the lowest power pool of any healer I've ever grouped with (4200ish).   My flowing thought items only add up to 5 so it's not like I have some huge mana regen hiding behind me and I pop my manastone only in named fights.  My guess (and only guess because I've never healed with you) is watch your mana burn and maybe inspect your tank to make sure hes not wearing T4 armor fighting T6 mobs : )

 

As far as fearing goes, I think if I ever used it in a group it would be my last time to group with them  lol.  As packed as the mobs are everywhere in KoS, if I feared one, it would come back with at least one friend.  I would love to have a single target mez at least, it would acually be very useful and still fit our class well.

[Cepheus80]

---

Shailen wrote: we 1) aren't a DPS class, why do people want more DPS, we'd only get it at the detriment of one of our core abilities

---

I agree with you totally, BUT...when you see Furies parsing as high as scout classes in some fights and also extremely high on healing parses you have to wonder if the whole "healing balace" issue is viable. You can argue that inquisitors have better debuffs and even buffs, but from my experience these two aren't enough to offset other imbalances. I'm not saying Furies should be nerfed, I think nerfing in general is just a bad idea. Verdict had promise of being a really nice spell, it had the potential to be a spell that really set us apart from other healers, but unfortunately its close to worthless and thus makes Inquisitors a bland class post 60 imo. It just seems like Inquisitors are the druids of EQ1. In group settings we are a GREAT all around class. We are, if you will, the jack of all trades...but put us on a raid and it becomes painfully obvious that other classes can do things much better than us.

---

Percuvil wrote: Convert - Not even on my hotbar.  It uses all my mana to the point I am useless.

---

Convert is actually a very useful spell in some situations. It does use a lot of power, but its what I like to call the "kick it up a notch" spell. I only use it in situations where extreme burst healing is needed. Examples would be tougher heroic named and raid epic mobs, especially at the very beginning of the battle before debuffs have been cast.  I normally use it for the first minute or so, then click it off so it doesn't suck my power dry.

 

Rigel Rabidclaw-70 Inquisitor-Kithicor server

                                                                                                                                                                                                   

 

 

   

[Shailen]

---

Cepheus80 wrote:

---

Shailen wrote: we 1) aren't a DPS class, why do people want more DPS, we'd only get it at the detriment of one of our core abilities

---

I agree with you totally, BUT...when you see Furies parsing as high as scout classes in some fights and also extremely high on healing parses you have to wonder if the whole "healing balace" issue is viable. You can argue that inquisitors have better debuffs and even buffs, but from my experience these two aren't enough to offset other imbalances. I'm not saying Furies should be nerfed, I think nerfing in general is just a bad idea. Verdict had promise of being a really nice spell, it had the potential to be a spell that really set us apart from other healers, but unfortunately its close to worthless and thus makes Inquisitors a bland class post 60 imo. It just seems like Inquisitors are the druids of EQ1. In group settings we are a GREAT all around class. We are, if you will, the jack of all trades...but put us on a raid and it becomes painfully obvious that other classes can do things much better than us.

---

I'll agree with you there, I don't want to see anyone nerfed either, but sometimes there just are overpower situations.  As far as healing though I know I can hands down outheal a fury if I need to.  On raids the only people who can come close to me with convert up on full healing burn is a warden, and even then its head to head.  I've come out on top more times than not when going head to the wall healing.  Being able to turn that back a notch and still beat any fury in a raid is a good indicator I think that they give something up for their DPS.  At the same time I think their DPS is probably a little high, but their group utility compared to wardens at least, and especially clerics is far less.

Its not like our DPS is even bottom of the barrel.  We easily out DPS templars.  On my grind from 60-70 I did quite a bit of parsing.  For the sake of comparison I'll only cover what I saw up until about 64 or so, but I ran real time parses for a very large chunk of that level grind, and I could consistantly get my DPS into the high 200 range (280-300).  This was mind you, WITH the use of debuffs, and in a solid group setting, so some of that comes from group buffs.  However, this wasa relatively decent showing in the group compared to the melee classes.  Sure it was lower than the tanks, but not by as much as you might thing, particularly the non DPS tanks.

Add to this that the whole time I was solo healing a group taking on mobs (including named) 6,7,8 levels higher than us, while most furies I know were constantly looking for another healer in their group to keep things flowing while just grinding average yellows, and there's definately a bit of a difference.

[Percuvil]

Thanks for the discussion and the comments on the use of Convert.   I have been playing my Inquisitor since launch, however, I am obviously still in "learn" mode.  Thats why I like this game though!  It actually takes some thought to play it!

I will be experimenting with convert and using the suggestions posted here.  Thanks much!

 

[RedFeather]

Nobody else sees our relationship to coercer's?

[TwilightSea]

I think Convert is great.  I agree with the poster above that referred to it as the 'kick it up a notch' spell.  It is mana heavy however, so I agree that you don't want it running every fight.  Because it triggers on any beneficial spell, it goes off left and right.  A situation where you might not want it is when you are fighting mobs that proc poison/cold/heat/etc effects - as curing these causes Convert to proc and if your target doesn't need healing you are just wasting mana.  My only suggestion would be to improve the mana efficiency of Convert.

 

Zealotry is the most amazing spell I have ever seen, hands down.  How you would not use it, I simply can't imagine.  I can literally watch the life bar of the ^^^ mob we are fighting, and when I kick on Zealotry - the rate at which it life is dropping increases dramatically!  I'm using an Adept III, so bear that in mind.  Yes, you are stifled - but you can still auto-attack!  And don't forget - that you benefit from that 42% haste (at adept III) that it gives too!  This makes using it while soloing almost necessary.  With the new achievement system - I always kick off Yaulp immediately before triggering Zealotry - the boost to my melee DPS is tremendous.  The trick to using it in groups is to activate it any time you are not casting other spells, it's that simple.  I find I save a LOT of mana from not having to heal, because the mob is dying faster.  Here's how I do it - as the ^^^ mob is coming - cast our group reactive heal.  Then cast our encounter AoE debuff, follow immediately by the STR/INT debuff, and then the mitigation debuff.  Activate Zealotry and laugh as the creature dies :smileyhappy:

 

Our debuffs are critical to our role in groups.  Being able to drop the encouter down 3-4 levels (in terms of offensive skills) greatly reduces the damage they deal - thereby saving us countless mana on heals.  I see no issues here.

 

Our reverse damage shield type procs don't seem to work correctly.  We have 3.  Both of the shields that are supposed to proc damage and a stun (the one that triggers on combat arts or spells, and the one that triggers on benefitial spells) just don't seem to go off at all versus creatures.  I see them work flawlessly in a duel, but vs creatures it's a different story.  I think someone should take a good hard look at these spells and see if they are actually working and not giving graphic effects/messages or just not working at all.  Who knows - making I'm just smoking something and they are fine, but I don't think so.

 

I am sad to have read everything I have about Verdict.  I'm guessing the percentages at which it will work need to be raised.  I can say more when I make 65.

 

Our DPS does suck.  I have sat and watched how many other classes deal with creatues (even other priest classes) and I'm not impressed with our output.  I'm not saying we're broken - it's just that it takes us FOREVER to kill something.  Having Yaulp w/ Zealotry has made a huge impact though, and I'm hoping that by adding in some of the DPS mob + STR + melee crit chance with the achievement system will really make us shine.  My only concern is that I'm only looking at the melee side of the achievements.  It almost feels wrong that I'm ignoring the spell crit chance achievement - so maybe that says something about our spell damage output.

 

All in all I'm happy with the class.  I'd be much happier if our spell damage output was buffed up some.  I'd be happier if our melee damage was buffed up some.  I think our heals are pretty good, but there is one last issue that really should be mentioned.  Any of you ever notice that you can work yourself into a bind while casting direct heals whereby you get stuck waiting like 5 seconds on recast timers?  This really could stand to be changed.  I cast my 2 second heal, then my 3 second heal, then my 2 second heal again (recast timer just comes up in time to cast it,) and then I have to wait.  While in a group I would normally stick my single target reactive here, but when healing someone out of group this makes for a very large hole in our healing.  Just thought I should bring it up.

[Jaradcel]

hot [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! Go to bed and see what happens when the nest gets stirred. Gimme some time to go through this. Good stuff Shai.Bring me on your raids -- Kheldar, Antonio Bayle.

[Shailen]

---

TwilightSea wrote:

 

Zealotry is the most amazing spell I have ever seen, hands down.  How you would not use it, I simply can't imagine.  I can literally watch the life bar of the ^^^ mob we are fighting, and when I kick on Zealotry - the rate at which it life is dropping increases dramatically!  I'm using an Adept III, so bear that in mind.  Yes, you are stifled - but you can still auto-attack!  And don't forget - that you benefit from that 42% haste (at adept III) that it gives too!  This makes using it while soloing almost necessary.  With the new achievement system - I always kick off Yaulp immediately before triggering Zealotry - the boost to my melee DPS is tremendous.  The trick to using it in groups is to activate it any time you are not casting other spells, it's that simple.  I find I save a LOT of mana from not having to heal, because the mob is dying faster.  Here's how I do it - as the ^^^ mob is coming - cast our group reactive heal.  Then cast our encounter AoE debuff, follow immediately by the STR/INT debuff, and then the mitigation debuff.  Activate Zealotry and laugh as the creature dies :smileyhappy:

 

---

This is a byproduct of the types of groups and what the already have.  Look at the impact of Zealotry on a raid parse, or even a group damage parse.  There's no denying it works, but as it only affects auto attack speed, and with the reduction in proc rates the int portion is less impact as well, it accounts for at best a 15% increase in damage output for a group, likely closer to 5%-10%.  While this is nothing to sneeze at, you have to give up the ability to do ANYTHING else during that time.  My own DPSing with DD spells during that same time would make up for a portion of that.  Admittedly I can keep Sentence up that whole time either way, so thats not impacted, but I 1) can't heal (my primary role) and 2) can offset the DPS gains with my own DPS, and still heal at the same time.The issue with Zels isn't that it doesn't work, but rather that it doesn't work to improve us, it simply gives us something different to do instead of our primary role.  Whereas if you look at other classes, their defining skills take them far and above the basics of what they are without them.  Zeals is simply something "else" inquisitors can do, it isn't "THE" thing that inquisitors can do.

[Blackgr]

So this is our cry to the DEV's... 

Please define us! Make us stand out abit more! 

Please give us something that says "Inquisitor" to Norrath!

--Gryfbane

[Octilius]

I think we make quite a fine class, but I will offer some thoughts that I think should be addressed.Convert - This spell is great...until you try to use a manastone/shard/halo of scaleborn/ etc etc...  If i'm trying to get MORE mana, i don't want it to proc a heal because these spells are considered "a beneficial spell."  It defeats the purpose of using a manastone if more than half of the mana from the manastone is going towards "healing" myself upon using it.  I don't care if i take damage, give me the mana.  Same with Halo of the scaleborn.  It procs, so basically instead of the 4 ticks of 50 mana i should receive I only get 3 ticks.  Pretty lame.  It fires off on group cures/group heals which really add up.  About 10% mana on either of those things being cast.  Kinda painful.  I always leave it off if I know i'm going to need to group cure or heal (IE named t7 mobs that have some nasty arcane AoEs).  And raids unless I am in MT group.Zealotry - While I consider this spell pretty useless, I do notice quite a difference when all the DPS is out of power.  That is when I throw this thing up.  The tank I usually group with likes to pull 3-4 encounters at a time, so DPS usually is hurting for power, along with him. Debuffs - In general - The debuffs recast timer is too long.  I cannot keep my Forced line on more than one group at a time.  I cannot cast it quick enough for when it will expire to keep it up if it gets resisted once.  Vitation isn't so bad, I can keep that on two mobs at once.  But I would like to see either an increase in how long the debuffs stay on mobs, or shorten the re-use timer.Forced Line - This is a sweet line in my opinion.  I usually have a bruiser MT'ing for me, so when he pulls, I cast forced line on the mob.  He avoids A LOT of the hits.  It really is useful with a meatshield equal or above the mobs, or to a avoidance tank if the mobs are +3 levels or lower.  It makes a huge difference for healing.Vitation/Debase - This has a huge effect on non-mitigating mobs (mobs+5 levels higher than the tank).  I also use it on names as well.  Before pull (if beserker is tanking) I cast my group/single reactive and fire off vitation as mob is incoming.  If bruiser is tanking than i just cast the 1 debuff on incoming, then a heal + reactive and then another debuff (Forced line).  It seems to make a huge difference from when I debuff or not, but maybe it's just because I always fight yellows+ when I grind and don't fight anything white or below really.I'd be happier to see a little buff in our DoT dps, but overall I am pretty happy with what we are now.

[Jaradcel]

Ok, had time to digest it. And since the servers just went down (whoop de doo... 11pm here.... Thank you SOE, for making servers go down when Asians are about to raid )As has been mentioned, of all the spells we're looking over, the one that is possibly least broken is Convert. As some have mentioned, some things that could tweak it (but which really aren't important) include removing "beneficial spell" from regen tick items like the Helm and Manastone (as well as Vessel I suppose)It takes good planning to use, but with the right DPS, as Shai mentioned, you really shouldn't run out of mana (and if you do... you're probably pulling something you can't handle anyway, or there's a ton of adds in which case you should be evac'ing already....)Of the remaining "Class defining" spells we have- VerdictBroken with a capital P. Suggestions include:1. Lowering, or removing entirely, the "channel" cast time.2. Making upgrades harder to resist.3. Adding information on whether the spell was resisted (Which should be a no-brainer. Possibly a bug?)4. Making the spell a debuff, much like our "Flame" line of "On-death" DD's. (I personally favor this idea very much, as it would mesh with increasing resistance to higher level spells wonderfully)- Zealotry/FanaticismVery, very, event specific spell. Suggestions include:1. Not stifling/stunning us at all.2. Changing the spell entirely (I am against this idea, and no one's come up with a good replacement (on this board that I've seen) yet soo... er no. )3. Increasing another stat instead of Int. (The counter-argument from those of us who like this spell is: Int + Inceased haste has always been the biggest benefit for our inherently DPS-raid-group role. Though I can see why some would prefer increases in other spells/areas/resistances)- Fervant FocusWhich, really, doesn't do what it says all the time. C'mon... lemme break stun/mez for the whole group.... please? Of the remaining arguments, here we have:1. Heals:Which are NOT a problem at all. Our heals all WORK and WORK WELL (At least, in non-PVP settings. I've just read the other thread where it says during PvP fights, healing goes DOWN. I have no confirmation on this though)Possible cycle for those who are complaining about it: Group reactive before pull, single reactive while tank is initially being beat on, and then long heals.If the mob is pummeling too hard too often. Change it to Grp R, Sing R, Fast heal, long heal, fast heal (immediately), long heal, grp cure, fast heal again (rinse repeat)Heals are NOT the issue.HOWEVER1b) Reactive Stacking:THIS is an issue. Templars currently override Inquisitor reactives (and do better reactives too, but thats not the point)Since most other spells now stack (Same class-spells stack etc) why can't these? You won't hear the Temps complaining because theirs overrides ours of course....2) "Coercer" roleFrom what I know, we have- Imprison/Incarcerate- Fearfel Conversion/The upgrade I can't recall the name of- Pacify(Someone mentioned a stun... I'm going to assume that that's Heresy. That one I'll cover later)Granted, these are more than enough to help with crowd control in emergencies (And even when not-interrupted in solo-sessions. I've tanked a grp of 3 ^ white dervish thugs in Maj'dul once thinking they were the PH'ers for my palace sweepers for Peacocks) but what do others think? Their timers were recently cut down from a minute to 30 seconds, and resistability went down as well. Thoughts?Oh PS: Fearing is a very BAD idea in KoS. Bringing several (probably very angry, and very ^^^) mobs right back at you. It might actually be a valid strategy for pulling from a corner where you wanna stick w/o having your tank go out....OR it could be suicide 3) DPS:We're clerics, I don't expect to have as much DPS as a scout. That said, I don't want to have to focus all my AA's on increasing my DPS if I want to increase my solo-ability, though seeing us crack 1K on a crit melee hit is a dream that I'm waiting to ding to 66 to see DPS wise, little currently needs changing.4) Reactive cursesThese are- Heresy- Repentence line- Vengeance line- The "on death" lineInqs only see this up the 30's, so lower levelled inqs WILL feel quite a pinch (and I know how it feels. Took me forever to get from 26 to 27....)That said, I think we need to see if there's a way to parse damage when cast on anyone other than "yourself" (IE the mob is whacking you)For the best example of Heresy and/or Repentence going off, I happened to try it on Kromise Hermits (the guys out on the islands outside of Permafrost wandering with the goblins) and just having those two on, w/o auto attacking or any other spells, took 'em down to 50%. Very nice, and proof it "works".We have through these three spells, a "cleric" killer, a "fighter/scout" killer, and a "melee" killer. No "mage" killer, though some are quick to point out Imprison's stifling effects. Sure.... till Imprison breaks that is...I've also yet to see the Repentence line ever "finish" proc'cing in its 1min (30sec?) timer, while Vengeance almost always does.Heresy's 30 second timer also seems rather short. Would anyone prefer it if it went to a minute? Or do you all think it's "just right"?5) Debuffs in generalDebuffs in general "work". There's nothing "wrong" with them (except mebbe the "Invocation" line IMO... I mean... Mental miti? I can see ow it fits with the Inquisitor's mental attacks but... most of ihs attacks aren't mental anyway.... Wish it were though. "TELL ME OR DIE HEATHEN!" )As Shailen says (I love you man ) we don't *NEED* these to be top of the line important ,which is why I'm sticking it to the bottm of the list.BUTOnce everything else is "fixed" what could be done could be to add in some way to beef it up a little, as they're currently a little underpowered (though by no means on the level of "teh suck" 'chanters.... I pity 'em =)Thoughts includea) Making all debuffs group wideb) Making it harder to resist (I see far too many resists on ad3 spells for my liking... but I could be wrong since I don't parse data. Anyone care to try this for an experiment?)c) Making it faster to get off debuffs. --> This is important. Many Inq's complain that they can't shoot off debuffs fast enough before the "heal grind" (Look above for the grind if you skipped to this section) begins. What this means is we're not doing our full potential of heals.Why?Many inqs point out that our heals don't heal as much as temps, but that by debuffing, we even it out (the complaince line drops mobs by up to 3-4 levels, which means that you're essentially healing a level 70 mob instead of the 70^^^ or... er, thereabouts)Without the time to debuff though, the chance of death/more mana wasted probably goes up.Shai, you should be 70 by now, care to run some tests? ----------------Thoughts?*11.45pm whoot... 45minutes to write it all up and make sense of it*

[Chog]

---

Jaradcel wrote:1b) Reactive Stacking:THIS is an issue. Templars currently override Inquisitor reactives (and do better reactives too, but thats not the point)Since most other spells now stack (Same class-spells stack etc) why can't these? You won't hear the Temps complaining because theirs overrides ours of course....

---

Just to point out, Inquisitor and Templars have identical reactives as long as they are of the same level and quality.