An idea for Templar healing improvement that WOULDNT be overpowered.

Nacire · 03-15-2006, 07:04 AM

This is my first time even entering the templar boards so excuse me if this has been suggested before. A lot of templars are lately complaining of a loss of ability to do their jobs, and having to rely a lot more on direct heals especially with brawler tanks, and honestly I can see thier point on most of the issues. When I play my monk as a general rule unless it's something I could have almost solo'd anyway a templar will be hard pressed to keep me alive while most any other healer barely dents their power pools. While I was listing to yet another rant from templar friends an idea occured to me though and I thought I'd bring it here to see how the templar community felt about it.

Why can't reactives heal on expire like a ward does? If I toss a 2k ward on a brawler with my mystic and he only takes one hit for 1k during the duration of that ward and I don't refresh it before end, when dropping it does a 1k heal as that much warding was left over. So why not have reactives keep track of their total pool of healing potiential and when it expires apply a heal for the leftover amount? Leftover being counted as any leftover procs OR any procs that couldn't heal for the full amount it was capable of.

In the long run the reactive isn't healing any more than it could have under ideal conditions anyway, BUT now there's something at the end to help with those spikes that reactives had no way of dealing with before.

Eriol · 03-15-2006, 07:19 AM

Nice idea. Seems like a "makes sense" to keep things consistent between the classes.

Jukk · 03-15-2006, 02:19 PM

Perfect idea.Would make wards/reactives more balanced.

tebion · 03-15-2006, 02:21 PM

this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm.

Hidehi · 03-16-2006, 08:26 AM

Great idea.I suggested an idea of RH procing at some rate even if mob's attack misses before, but Nacireen's idea is as good.I don't need my nuke / dot upgraded because I'm an healer.Just want to be as good healer with avoidance tank as with mitigation tank compared to shaman / druid !!

Nacire · 03-16-2006, 12:34 PM

tebion wrote:this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm.

Wasn't aware of the difference in total healing till you mentioned it but I don't think that would need to be adjusted in order to make this mechanic balanced if added. Simply count any fire even if it doesn't heal the full amount as that full possible amount of the total left to be fired at end. So even if there was a hit for 30 when the tank was full that firing still takes the full 400 off the part that will fire at end even though it only healed 30. In this way you are not adding ANY extra healing to the reactive, only adding something at end to compensate for avoidance making the heal type less effective.

Sokolov · 03-16-2006, 07:54 PM

Nacireen wrote:
tebion wrote:this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm.
Wasn't aware of the difference in total healing till you mentioned it but I don't think that would need to be adjusted in order to make this mechanic balanced if added. Simply count any fire even if it doesn't heal the full amount as that full possible amount of the total left to be fired at end. So even if there was a hit for 30 when the tank was full that firing still takes the full 400 off the part that will fire at end even though it only healed 30. In this way you are not adding ANY extra healing to the reactive, only adding something at end to compensate for avoidance making the heal type less effective.

The difference is about 25% more total damage healed for a Regen or a Reactive over a similiar ward. This means that if maximum potential is achieved before recast timers are up, a Druid/Cleric heals has higher HP/second and HP/Power than a Shaman.I had asked a while back whether reactives had the behavior the OP described and recall being told yes... nonetheless the idea is a good one.The simple solution would be to make the 'left over' reactive hits heal for X each, with X being something less than a normal reactive hit.

Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-16-200606:55 AM

Kendricke · 03-16-2006, 07:58 PM

Personally, I think this is a great idea. In fact, it's been listed HERE since November 5, 2005 as an Issue in the Holy Books of Templar:

9.Reactives Should Be More EfficientWhen a ward's duration expires, any unused amount of the ward is applied as a heal. Reactives should work similarly, in that they should also heal any unused amount at the end of duration. This will assist with healing avoidance based fighters, such as monks.

Message Edited by Kendricke on 03-16-200607:00 AM

SenorPhrog · 03-17-2006, 02:26 AM

Yeah this has been brought up before...maybe this can be a gentle reminder. *hint* *hint* In fact I believe there will be some rountables next month....

rtoub · 03-17-2006, 06:23 AM

I would be happy with 50% of the remaining heals to be given. I don't see that being unbalanced at all.

Nacire · 03-17-2006, 02:15 PM

Ah, I mentioned in my first post I wasn't sure if it was original. hehe However I would love to see this happen. Coming from a mystic who does heal equally well on any type of tank I would LOVE to see templars be in the same boat. And I'm more than certain the brawlers feel the same way as I have a 60+ monk as well who would LOVE to be able to tank with a cleric healer and not worry bout heals. As things stand now reactives are the ONLY specialty heal with a disadvantage on one tank type versus another. Both regens and wards both work equally well regardless of the tank type, and this needs to be fixed.

From my experiences clerics still have a SMALL edge on plate tank healing if they use all their tools rather than just spouting how worthless they are, but this is as it should be since you really don't have the utility and debuffs other healers do. I would like to see that same small edge to appear when healing brawlers as well since it would not only help you but the brawlers that like to actually TANK as well. SMILEY

03-15-2006, 07:19 AM	#2
Eriol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,125	Nice idea. Seems like a "makes sense" to keep things consistent between the classes. __________________ Eriol Ancalagon A Summoner's Fall into Darkness

03-15-2006, 02:21 PM	#4
tebion Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 258	this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm. __________________ small and proud of it

03-16-2006, 07:54 PM	#7
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Nacireen wrote: tebion wrote:this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm. Wasn't aware of the difference in total healing till you mentioned it but I don't think that would need to be adjusted in order to make this mechanic balanced if added. Simply count any fire even if it doesn't heal the full amount as that full possible amount of the total left to be fired at end. So even if there was a hit for 30 when the tank was full that firing still takes the full 400 off the part that will fire at end even though it only healed 30. In this way you are not adding ANY extra healing to the reactive, only adding something at end to compensate for avoidance making the heal type less effective. The difference is about 25% more total damage healed for a Regen or a Reactive over a similiar ward. This means that if maximum potential is achieved before recast timers are up, a Druid/Cleric heals has higher HP/second and HP/Power than a Shaman.I had asked a while back whether reactives had the behavior the OP described and recall being told yes... nonetheless the idea is a good one.The simple solution would be to make the 'left over' reactive hits heal for X each, with X being something less than a normal reactive hit. Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-16-200606:55 AM __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

03-16-2006, 07:58 PM	#8
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Personally, I think this is a great idea. In fact, it's been listed HERE since November 5, 2005 as an Issue in the Holy Books of Templar: 9.Reactives Should Be More EfficientWhen a ward's duration expires, any unused amount of the ward is applied as a heal. Reactives should work similarly, in that they should also heal any unused amount at the end of duration. This will assist with healing avoidance based fighters, such as monks. Message Edited by Kendricke on 03-16-200607:00 AM __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

03-17-2006, 02:26 AM	#9
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Yeah this has been brought up before...maybe this can be a gentle reminder. hint hint In fact I believe there will be some rountables next month.... __________________

03-15-2006, 07:04 AM	#1
Nacire Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 170	This is my first time even entering the templar boards so excuse me if this has been suggested before. A lot of templars are lately complaining of a loss of ability to do their jobs, and having to rely a lot more on direct heals especially with brawler tanks, and honestly I can see thier point on most of the issues. When I play my monk as a general rule unless it's something I could have almost solo'd anyway a templar will be hard pressed to keep me alive while most any other healer barely dents their power pools. While I was listing to yet another rant from templar friends an idea occured to me though and I thought I'd bring it here to see how the templar community felt about it. Why can't reactives heal on expire like a ward does? If I toss a 2k ward on a brawler with my mystic and he only takes one hit for 1k during the duration of that ward and I don't refresh it before end, when dropping it does a 1k heal as that much warding was left over. So why not have reactives keep track of their total pool of healing potiential and when it expires apply a heal for the leftover amount? Leftover being counted as any leftover procs OR any procs that couldn't heal for the full amount it was capable of. In the long run the reactive isn't healing any more than it could have under ideal conditions anyway, BUT now there's something at the end to help with those spikes that reactives had no way of dealing with before.

03-15-2006, 02:19 PM	#3
Jukk Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 75	Perfect idea.Would make wards/reactives more balanced.

03-16-2006, 08:26 AM	#5
Hidehi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 13	Great idea.I suggested an idea of RH procing at some rate even if mob's attack misses before, but Nacireen's idea is as good.I don't need my nuke / dot upgraded because I'm an healer.Just want to be as good healer with avoidance tank as with mitigation tank compared to shaman / druid !!

03-16-2006, 12:34 PM	#6
Nacire Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 170	tebion wrote:this idea is around since a long time for sure and it definitely makes sensethe only thing you have to consider is although, that your reactive heals would have to take a hit in the complete healing amount with this change as nowadays a reactive can totally heal for alot more than the aequivalent ward of shaman, which is currently compensated by the restheal atm. Wasn't aware of the difference in total healing till you mentioned it but I don't think that would need to be adjusted in order to make this mechanic balanced if added. Simply count any fire even if it doesn't heal the full amount as that full possible amount of the total left to be fired at end. So even if there was a hit for 30 when the tank was full that firing still takes the full 400 off the part that will fire at end even though it only healed 30. In this way you are not adding ANY extra healing to the reactive, only adding something at end to compensate for avoidance making the heal type less effective.

03-17-2006, 06:23 AM	#10
rtoub Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	I would be happy with 50% of the remaining heals to be given. I don't see that being unbalanced at all. __________________

03-17-2006, 02:15 PM	#11
Nacire Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 170	Ah, I mentioned in my first post I wasn't sure if it was original. hehe However I would love to see this happen. Coming from a mystic who does heal equally well on any type of tank I would LOVE to see templars be in the same boat. And I'm more than certain the brawlers feel the same way as I have a 60+ monk as well who would LOVE to be able to tank with a cleric healer and not worry bout heals. As things stand now reactives are the ONLY specialty heal with a disadvantage on one tank type versus another. Both regens and wards both work equally well regardless of the tank type, and this needs to be fixed. From my experiences clerics still have a SMALL edge on plate tank healing if they use all their tools rather than just spouting how worthless they are, but this is as it should be since you really don't have the utility and debuffs other healers do. I would like to see that same small edge to appear when healing brawlers as well since it would not only help you but the brawlers that like to actually TANK as well.