When is the Fix?

bigmak20 · 12-09-2005, 09:14 PM

We've posted specifics about what is wrong; but we still get "looking into it" responses. 1) Our DPS in the typical 30 second or less fight is pathetic -- and that's why most of us feel our DPS is appaling. DPS may balance within reason over a minute and a half but most fights (for any other class but a few priests that have it almost as bad as we do) take 30 seconds or less. That's a simple fact that even Kendricke can't debate. 2) We heal adequately in groups but we have way too many lotto heals and way too few direct heals. Especially at 58+ when other priest classes are getting or have received additional direct heals. This unbalances the heal balancing done at LU13 and makes other priests better healers. 3) Interrupts are way out of control. A problem highlighted even more for plate wearing clerics. We've said it again and again. It can't be put more simply. The time for looking into it has long since come and gone. It appears to me that Templars have just given up. Many Templars are still around being harvest bots or twinking their new mains... few are actually quitting... and threatening to quit doesn't solve anything so... ??? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel or are we obsolete

AzraelAzgard · 12-09-2005, 09:56 PM

Id rather existing spells were fixed before any of that.

Xerxess · 12-09-2005, 10:11 PM

we're not...we are right where we are in the vision of sony. Nothing any of us can do it about it.

or

We will have to wait like the Furies did and in a year we will geta revamp that will make us fun again =P

El Dominion · 12-09-2005, 10:21 PM

bigmak2010 wrote:

It appears to me that Templars have just given up. Many Templars are still around being harvest bots or twinking their new mains... few are actually quitting... and threatening to quit doesn't solve anything so...

OMG thats me.

I now have 4 alts I play almost exclusivley, Guardian, Monk, Wizard and Ranger, and they are all WAY MORE FUN than my level 53 Templar. I feel the templar is fine in a group, but solo isn't worth the time of day. Remember we don't all have easy access to groups or want them, I live in the UK and play on a USA server as the UK servers were not live from day one. I can see the day in the not too distant future where one of my alts beats my main to 60.

toxe14567 · 12-09-2005, 11:31 PM

Yeah, same with me. I am a level 57 Templer and I only play it in groups. If you take a look at my sig you can see that I am a big quester - but at the moment I only do old quests if I can get them. Quests where I have to kill level 40+ mobs are just plain boring. It just takes way too much time to kill those +++ mobs. Started a wizard recently (lvl 17 ATM) and having much fun with him. But my Templar is my main in this game. No fun to solo with him any more so this really makes me sad.

RipFlex · 12-10-2005, 07:08 AM

Doing the same now, my Main 58th level Templar just harvesting for my alts to be tweaked. I have a 46th level Ratonga Monk with 50+ legendaries already premade waiting for him, then I'll do a Main switch-a-roo. I can provide more Guild XP with my Monk than my Templar since I can kill stuff heckuva lot faster in writs, and I can complete HQs with this toon as well. My Templar will be Semi-Retired - used for Raids or Big difficult grouping events/HQs.

I won't delete him, just wait a whole year like the Furies had to until something happens I guess?

Message Edited by RipFlex on 12-09-2005 09:09 PM

Takeo1 · 12-11-2005, 11:28 AM

Mak -

Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno.

I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha!

Lates.

Kendricke · 12-12-2005, 11:17 AM

Takeo101 wrote:
Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno.

The night after the release of Live Update 17 couldn't have anything to do with it, right boyo? I mean, it's not like guilds were picking up over 100 Master I's and 400 rares in a six hour period. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened on many servers. :smileywink: Seriously, even with the emergency patch that tuned down the rare drop rates, Master chests are still dropping like mad. In the past week alone, my guildmates have looted 2 dozen Master I's just from Tier V and VI. That's not even counting raid drops.

Don't get started on how ridicuously easy it is to get a ruby or pearl now. Prices have dropped across the board since the rarity was reduced.

Here's a portion of a guild window that a friend sent me to illustrate what I'm talking about (this is non-raid):

Message Edited by Kendricke on 12-11-2005 10:24 PM

SenorPhrog · 12-12-2005, 11:55 PM

Takeo101 wrote:

Mak -

Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno.

I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha!

Lates.

You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells.

Copperha · 12-13-2005, 01:13 AM

I am fortunate to belong to a guild that has level 60 Alchemists and Sages. I simply buy the rare and they take care of the rest for me. So I pay about 1p50gp for a pearl or 60-65gp for a ruby (current prices on my server), wait a day or two and voila Adept III.

Takeo1 · 12-13-2005, 03:20 AM

Radar-X wrote:

Takeo101 wrote:

Mak -

Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno.

I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha!

Lates.

You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells.

You might wanna ask Kendrick why his theory on supply doesnt seem to be applying to your server....oh, thats because even with the supply high, those spells are in particular demand on servers that have maintained at least a semblence of population in Templars. And besides, even IF your pop is low AND even with high supply the farmers are gonna hoard and piece it out, IF they can get the prices.

Just look at the diamond market as a real world example.

Edit: Ken -

Back your play with something resembling common sense. The "LU17 is attention, and the patch to save drop rates" line doesnt hold water. Thank you - come again.

Lates.

Message Edited by Takeo101 on 12-12-2005 02:23 PM

Kendricke · 12-13-2005, 03:42 AM

Takeo,

You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion.

It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries.

What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month?

Timaarit · 12-13-2005, 01:15 PM

Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_. Edit: Also from what I have seen, master I's are coming now more common than right after LU17. Also our guild has gained a lot more master I's after that fix than during the night of gift drops. As for rares, their price is dropping since all the harvesters are now in full adept III's and legendary gear and are now selling the excess. The price will drop even more in the future even if SoE doesn't bug the game once again (unless it is a bug that totally nerfs the drops...).

Message Edited by Timaarit on 12-13-2005 10:19 AM

Bhee · 12-13-2005, 05:03 PM

Ok, I fail to understand the arguments going here. Why is rice drop bad? I am not in a "leet" guild and I would benefit if the prices drop.

Timaarit · 12-13-2005, 05:17 PM

SadMouse wrote:Ok, I fail to understand the arguments going here. Why is rice drop bad? I am not in a "leet" guild and I would benefit if the prices drop.

It is bad from sages/jewelers/alchemists point of view (but this was partly negated and worsened by giving massive bonus xp for tradeskillers) as people dont want app4's nor adept III's since adept I's are good enough till they get master I's. For armorers and tailors it has been great since I rarely see people who are not in full legendary armor. But the main thing is that once you get all that good drops, what does the game offer you then? For example once you are in full legendary/fabled and full adept III's/master I's, why would you log on?

Kendricke · 12-13-2005, 06:56 PM

Timaarit wrote:
Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_.

Blackguard stated that the current drop rate on Master I's and rares is still higher than it was prior to Live Update 17. In addition, it's only been two weeks since the "Night of a Million Fabled" and it's unrealistic at best to think that all of those drops have somehow already been removed from the market.

NOTE: Your own statements indicate that you're seeing higher drop rates on Master I's. This supports my theory, that the market is simply seeing higher supply. HIgher supply without any change in demand would still result in lower prices. Higher supply with even lower demand (such as might happen in an oversaturation situation - which is what I believe occured on the 30th of November) and you'll see even lower prices.

Message Edited by Kendricke on 12-13-2005 05:58 AM

Timaarit · 12-13-2005, 07:02 PM

Kendricke wrote:

Timaarit wrote:
Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_.

<>Blackguard stated that the current drop rate on Master I's and rares is still higher than it was prior to Live Update 17. In addition, it's only been two weeks since the "Night of a Million Fabled" and it's unrealistic at best to think that all of those drops have somehow already been removed from the market. <>

Umm, did you actually did my whole post? If you didn't, go read it. If you did, why did you cut out the part where I said closely to what you did? As for those fableds to be off market, I'd say most are or at least they didn't have much impact on pricing. They are either already sold or then waiting in some guild banks. Why I say this? Because within 3 days of that night, there were several fableds on broker. Now there are even more and the amount is increasing every day. Why prices fall is due to LU17, but as I said, prices will fall still despite the fact that the bug in LU17 was fixed. So the bug is not the reason why prices are falling.

SenorPhrog · 12-13-2005, 07:27 PM

Takeo101 wrote:

Radar-X wrote:

Takeo101 wrote:

Mak -

Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno.

I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha!

Lates.

You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells.

You might wanna ask Kendrick why his theory on supply doesnt seem to be applying to your server....oh, thats because even with the supply high, those spells are in particular demand on servers that have maintained at least a semblence of population in Templars. And besides, even IF your pop is low AND even with high supply the farmers are gonna hoard and piece it out, IF they can get the prices.

Just look at the diamond market as a real world example.

Edit: Ken -

Back your play with something resembling common sense. The "LU17 is attention, and the patch to save drop rates" line doesnt hold water. Thank you - come again.

Lates.

Message Edited by Takeo101 on 12-12-2005 02:23 PM

Neriak is low pop and all the Adept 3's are pretty much made by 2 people. What's really funny is those things have been up for like 2 weeks and about every week I see the price drop about 30gp. I'm not sure why they made some of these (one of them is Sanctuary) but I'm waiting until the price is right. The hillarious one is a Grand Intercession Master 1 for 17pp. It's obvious that person has no idea what our Master 2 choices are.

Caethre · 12-13-2005, 07:41 PM

OOC.

I really don't understand the prices I hear of on some servers.

I am really the only Sage on Antonia (on the Qeynos side anyway) who has a whole lot of Tier 6 Templar and Fury Adept III spells pre-made and on the broker for sale (usually every single spell of the levels *above* my current character levels in each case).

They are all priced at 2p50g, and that makes me enough profit to make it worthwhile tieing up almost all my coin in my room vault. T6 rares are typically priced at (very variable) 1p to 2p on the broker, averaging about 1.7p at this moment but it changes weekly. I feel charging much more than this would be unreasonable.

So hearing of people asking 17p for any Adept III makes me choke.

Felishanna [53 Templar / 60 Sage]
Annaelisa [52 Fury]

Nari · 12-13-2005, 07:52 PM

On Everfrost, I have not seen adept III's at any price for levels 32-42 for at least a month. *shakes fist at Everfrost sages then shrugs*

SenorPhrog · 12-13-2005, 08:22 PM

Caethre wrote:

OOC.

I really don't understand the prices I hear of on some servers.

I am really the only Sage on Antonia (on the Qeynos side anyway) who has a whole lot of Tier 6 Templar and Fury Adept III spells pre-made and on the broker for sale (usually every single spell of the levels *above* my current character levels in each case).

They are all priced at 2p50g, and that makes me enough profit to make it worthwhile tieing up almost all my coin in my room vault. T6 rares are typically priced at (very variable) 1p to 2p on the broker, averaging about 1.7p at this moment but it changes weekly. I feel charging much more than this would be unreasonable.

So hearing of people asking 17p for any Adept III makes me choke.

Felishanna [53 Templar / 60 Sage]
Annaelisa [52 Fury]

Well the 17pp was for a Master 1, it was just funny that it's Grand Intercession which most of us take for our Master 2 choice. I forsee them having a hard time unloading that one. 2.5pp sounds like a very reasonable price and I'd readily pay that for an Adept III I can use. The rares on my server go for about 1pp and I understand there are other costs involved plus time but when you want between 3.75pp (for stuff like Harmony) and 5pp (for stuff like Faithful Intercession) I think it's getting out of hand. By comparison I have never paid more than 25 gp for an Adept 1 so if you look at price to usage is an Adept III of Faithful Intercession really 2000% better than the Adept 1?

BenEm · 12-13-2005, 09:20 PM

Kendricke wrote:

Takeo,

You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion.

It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries.

What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month?

Its a fact that they are making all healing classes heal with as close as possible capacity without giving everybody the same spells but you constantly refute this so now because the Devs say something you want to hear its suddenly "back -up" ....Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ! Your one funny little feller SMILEY

Takeo1 · 12-14-2005, 05:38 AM

Kendricke wrote:

Takeo,

You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion.

It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries.

What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month?

What do I provide to support my claim? Common sense. Wake up, drink some coffee and recognize....people are greedy....well not all on AB, but most. If they can hoard for guild, or better yet, for self, then piece out spells for high prices, they WILL. Its very simple. Let me say it again....common sense and greed. You can point out anything else you want...it wont refute the price changes. Your /who checks are just Temps that are still being played aye? High level Temps that have what they need? Why would they need a T4 Ad3 or M1? Come on now...they fixxed the drop rates, the drops were hoarded, for guild or self, or are being pieced out. Thats it. Why make it more complex than it has to be?

Do you recognize and understand my example of diamonds aye? Have they fixxed the drop rates in Alaska with a patch? No? Then why cant I get my wife a 4k Yellow for under 1k even in the Diamond District? Greed.

/yawn

Look - this wont go anywhere. They reason you are blasting this is totally made up in my opinion. You never have struck me as a fool, why not apply common sense now? People are quitting, retiring, alting, what-have-you. So the demand isnt there. On AB the prices have dropped because MANY Temps have bailed to alts or quit altogether. So even though some may WANT to gouge the other guy, they cant do it, with SPELLS. This is due mainly to people like Fel, who keeps the prices reasonable based on rares, which according to your supply theory should be coming in at about 20g a pop now....but still holding at 1p+. They KNOW they can still gouge there....so they do. They hoard and piece out....like diamonds.

Anyways - I have some house repairs to do. I am having some issues with the exterior trim...hopefully my common sense wont fail me....

Lates.

12-09-2005, 09:14 PM	#1
bigmak20 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 447	We've posted specifics about what is wrong; but we still get "looking into it" responses. 1) Our DPS in the typical 30 second or less fight is pathetic -- and that's why most of us feel our DPS is appaling. DPS may balance within reason over a minute and a half but most fights (for any other class but a few priests that have it almost as bad as we do) take 30 seconds or less. That's a simple fact that even Kendricke can't debate. 2) We heal adequately in groups but we have way too many lotto heals and way too few direct heals. Especially at 58+ when other priest classes are getting or have received additional direct heals. This unbalances the heal balancing done at LU13 and makes other priests better healers. 3) Interrupts are way out of control. A problem highlighted even more for plate wearing clerics. We've said it again and again. It can't be put more simply. The time for looking into it has long since come and gone. It appears to me that Templars have just given up. Many Templars are still around being harvest bots or twinking their new mains... few are actually quitting... and threatening to quit doesn't solve anything so... ??? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel or are we obsolete __________________ Borekai 60 Templar Asuryan 30 Warlock it all started with the Kung-fu kiddy wanna-be tanks being put in charge of game design. Leather tanks. Mage DPS'ing 'priests' healing like clerics. Dogs and cats living together. ....

12-09-2005, 10:11 PM	#3
Xerxess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 168	we're not...we are right where we are in the vision of sony. Nothing any of us can do it about it. or We will have to wait like the Furies did and in a year we will geta revamp that will make us fun again =P __________________ Pepi Necessary Evil 80 Swashy Max of 400 DPS!!

12-09-2005, 10:21 PM	#4
El Dominion Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 52	bigmak2010 wrote: It appears to me that Templars have just given up. Many Templars are still around being harvest bots or twinking their new mains... few are actually quitting... and threatening to quit doesn't solve anything so... OMG thats me. I now have 4 alts I play almost exclusivley, Guardian, Monk, Wizard and Ranger, and they are all WAY MORE FUN than my level 53 Templar. I feel the templar is fine in a group, but solo isn't worth the time of day. Remember we don't all have easy access to groups or want them, I live in the UK and play on a USA server as the UK servers were not live from day one. I can see the day in the not too distant future where one of my alts beats my main to 60.

12-09-2005, 11:31 PM	#5
toxe14567 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	Yeah, same with me. I am a level 57 Templer and I only play it in groups. If you take a look at my sig you can see that I am a big quester - but at the moment I only do old quests if I can get them. Quests where I have to kill level 40+ mobs are just plain boring. It just takes way too much time to kill those +++ mobs. Started a wizard recently (lvl 17 ATM) and having much fun with him. But my Templar is my main in this game. No fun to solo with him any more so this really makes me sad. __________________ Toxe - ~~Templer~~ Inquistor 90 Rizz - Brigand 79 Server Valor - Gemeinschaft der Suchenden

12-10-2005, 07:08 AM	#6
RipFlex Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	Doing the same now, my Main 58th level Templar just harvesting for my alts to be tweaked. I have a 46th level Ratonga Monk with 50+ legendaries already premade waiting for him, then I'll do a Main switch-a-roo. I can provide more Guild XP with my Monk than my Templar since I can kill stuff heckuva lot faster in writs, and I can complete HQs with this toon as well. My Templar will be Semi-Retired - used for Raids or Big difficult grouping events/HQs. I won't delete him, just wait a whole year like the Furies had to until something happens I guess? Message Edited by RipFlex on 12-09-2005 09:09 PM __________________ RipEscence Tourniquet - HalfElf Templar/Prov (70/70) RipLee TigerTail - Ratonga Monk/Wood Worker (70/54) RipJack Monterey- Ratonga Guardian (70) Riplyre Dredwind - Fae Dirge/Alch (70/30)

12-09-2005, 09:56 PM	#2
AzraelAzgard Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 511	Id rather existing spells were fixed before any of that.

12-11-2005, 11:28 AM	#7
Takeo1 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 107	Mak - Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno. I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha! Lates.

12-12-2005, 11:17 AM	#8
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Takeo101 wrote: Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno. The night after the release of Live Update 17 couldn't have anything to do with it, right boyo? I mean, it's not like guilds were picking up over 100 Master I's and 400 rares in a six hour period. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened on many servers. :smileywink: Seriously, even with the emergency patch that tuned down the rare drop rates, Master chests are still dropping like mad. In the past week alone, my guildmates have looted 2 dozen Master I's just from Tier V and VI. That's not even counting raid drops. Don't get started on how ridicuously easy it is to get a ruby or pearl now. Prices have dropped across the board since the rarity was reduced. Here's a portion of a guild window that a friend sent me to illustrate what I'm talking about (this is non-raid): Message Edited by Kendricke on 12-11-2005 10:24 PM __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

12-12-2005, 11:55 PM	#9
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Takeo101 wrote: Mak - Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno. I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha! Lates. You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells. __________________

12-13-2005, 01:13 AM	#10
Copperha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 78	I am fortunate to belong to a guild that has level 60 Alchemists and Sages. I simply buy the rare and they take care of the rest for me. So I pay about 1p50gp for a pearl or 60-65gp for a ruby (current prices on my server), wait a day or two and voila Adept III.

12-13-2005, 03:20 AM	#11
Takeo1 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 107	Radar-X wrote: Takeo101 wrote: Mak - Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno. I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha! Lates. You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells. You might wanna ask Kendrick why his theory on supply doesnt seem to be applying to your server....oh, thats because even with the supply high, those spells are in particular demand on servers that have maintained at least a semblence of population in Templars. And besides, even IF your pop is low AND even with high supply the farmers are gonna hoard and piece it out, IF they can get the prices. Just look at the diamond market as a real world example. Edit: Ken - Back your play with something resembling common sense. The "LU17 is attention, and the patch to save drop rates" line doesnt hold water. Thank you - come again. Lates. Message Edited by Takeo101 on 12-12-2005 02:23 PM

12-13-2005, 03:42 AM	#12
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Takeo, You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion. It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries. What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month? __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

12-13-2005, 01:15 PM	#13
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_. Edit: Also from what I have seen, master I's are coming now more common than right after LU17. Also our guild has gained a lot more master I's after that fix than during the night of gift drops. As for rares, their price is dropping since all the harvesters are now in full adept III's and legendary gear and are now selling the excess. The price will drop even more in the future even if SoE doesn't bug the game once again (unless it is a bug that totally nerfs the drops...). Message Edited by Timaarit on 12-13-2005 10:19 AM

12-13-2005, 05:03 PM	#14
Bhee General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 76	Ok, I fail to understand the arguments going here. Why is rice drop bad? I am not in a "leet" guild and I would benefit if the prices drop. __________________

12-13-2005, 05:17 PM	#15
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	SadMouse wrote:Ok, I fail to understand the arguments going here. Why is rice drop bad? I am not in a "leet" guild and I would benefit if the prices drop. It is bad from sages/jewelers/alchemists point of view (but this was partly negated and worsened by giving massive bonus xp for tradeskillers) as people dont want app4's nor adept III's since adept I's are good enough till they get master I's. For armorers and tailors it has been great since I rarely see people who are not in full legendary armor. But the main thing is that once you get all that good drops, what does the game offer you then? For example once you are in full legendary/fabled and full adept III's/master I's, why would you log on?

12-13-2005, 06:56 PM	#16
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Timaarit wrote: Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_. Blackguard stated that the current drop rate on Master I's and rares is still higher than it was prior to Live Update 17. In addition, it's only been two weeks since the "Night of a Million Fabled" and it's unrealistic at best to think that all of those drops have somehow already been removed from the market. NOTE: Your own statements indicate that you're seeing higher drop rates on Master I's. This supports my theory, that the market is simply seeing higher supply. HIgher supply without any change in demand would still result in lower prices. Higher supply with even lower demand (such as might happen in an oversaturation situation - which is what I believe occured on the 30th of November) and you'll see even lower prices. Message Edited by Kendricke on 12-13-2005 05:58 AM __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

12-13-2005, 07:02 PM	#17
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Kendricke wrote: Timaarit wrote: Kend, your statement holds no water since the huge amount of fabled drops with LU17 was a bug and it was fixed. There has been no scaling back after that _FIX_. <>Blackguard stated that the current drop rate on Master I's and rares is still higher than it was prior to Live Update 17. In addition, it's only been two weeks since the "Night of a Million Fabled" and it's unrealistic at best to think that all of those drops have somehow already been removed from the market. <> Umm, did you actually did my whole post? If you didn't, go read it. If you did, why did you cut out the part where I said closely to what you did? As for those fableds to be off market, I'd say most are or at least they didn't have much impact on pricing. They are either already sold or then waiting in some guild banks. Why I say this? Because within 3 days of that night, there were several fableds on broker. Now there are even more and the amount is increasing every day. Why prices fall is due to LU17, but as I said, prices will fall still despite the fact that the bug in LU17 was fixed. So the bug is not the reason why prices are falling.

12-13-2005, 07:27 PM	#18
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Takeo101 wrote: Radar-X wrote: Takeo101 wrote: Mak - Let the market tell you whats happening on your server....I have watched Ad3s and M1s drop at least 50% value in the last month alone. Its looking bad for the Templar boyo - and alot of folks know it. Do I personally think they are working on it? I dunno. I certainly hope so - but I have no parses to support what they say. Just their words and observations, oh and a few small token bones thrown our way...haha! Lates. You can't possibly be on my server then. I refuse to pay 4-5pp for an Adept3. I would love to see lower prices on my spells. You might wanna ask Kendrick why his theory on supply doesnt seem to be applying to your server....oh, thats because even with the supply high, those spells are in particular demand on servers that have maintained at least a semblence of population in Templars. And besides, even IF your pop is low AND even with high supply the farmers are gonna hoard and piece it out, IF they can get the prices. Just look at the diamond market as a real world example. Edit: Ken - Back your play with something resembling common sense. The "LU17 is attention, and the patch to save drop rates" line doesnt hold water. Thank you - come again. Lates. Message Edited by Takeo101 on 12-12-2005 02:23 PM Neriak is low pop and all the Adept 3's are pretty much made by 2 people. What's really funny is those things have been up for like 2 weeks and about every week I see the price drop about 30gp. I'm not sure why they made some of these (one of them is Sanctuary) but I'm waiting until the price is right. The hillarious one is a Grand Intercession Master 1 for 17pp. It's obvious that person has no idea what our Master 2 choices are. __________________

12-13-2005, 07:41 PM	#19
Caethre Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,167	OOC. I really don't understand the prices I hear of on some servers. I am really the only Sage on Antonia (on the Qeynos side anyway) who has a whole lot of Tier 6 Templar and Fury Adept III spells pre-made and on the broker for sale (usually every single spell of the levels above my current character levels in each case). They are all priced at 2p50g, and that makes me enough profit to make it worthwhile tieing up almost all my coin in my room vault. T6 rares are typically priced at (very variable) 1p to 2p on the broker, averaging about 1.7p at this moment but it changes weekly. I feel charging much more than this would be unreasonable. So hearing of people asking 17p for any Adept III makes me choke. Felishanna [53 Templar / 60 Sage] Annaelisa [52 Fury] __________________ Countess Felishanna Silorielenwe [92/320 Templar\|92 Sage](Koada`Dal) Lady Lorianna Ardinwena [92/320 Monk\|92 Carpenter](Koada`Dal) Lady Suzanna Narinyaare [92/320 Conjuror\|92 Woodworker](Koada`Dal) Lady Annaelisa Lorinfinlinde [92/320 Fury\|92 Tailor](Koada`Dal) Lady Silvianna [92/320 Illusionist\|92 Jeweler](Koada`Dal) Jennianna [92/320 Dirge\|92 Weaponsmith](Koada`Dal) Aurielle [92/320 Wizard\|92 Alchemist](Koada`Dal) Valerianna [92/320 Guardian\|92 Armourer](Koada`Dal) Sarahanna [92/320 Swashbuckler\|92 Provisioner](Koada`Dal) Katherianna [92/286 Beserker\|92 Sage](Koada`Dal) Guildleader of The True Path - A roleplay-based guild (level 77) on Antonia Bayle

12-13-2005, 07:52 PM	#20
Nari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 356	On Everfrost, I have not seen adept III's at any price for levels 32-42 for at least a month. shakes fist at Everfrost sages then shrugs

12-13-2005, 08:22 PM	#21
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Caethre wrote: OOC. I really don't understand the prices I hear of on some servers. I am really the only Sage on Antonia (on the Qeynos side anyway) who has a whole lot of Tier 6 Templar and Fury Adept III spells pre-made and on the broker for sale (usually every single spell of the levels above my current character levels in each case). They are all priced at 2p50g, and that makes me enough profit to make it worthwhile tieing up almost all my coin in my room vault. T6 rares are typically priced at (very variable) 1p to 2p on the broker, averaging about 1.7p at this moment but it changes weekly. I feel charging much more than this would be unreasonable. So hearing of people asking 17p for any Adept III makes me choke. Felishanna [53 Templar / 60 Sage] Annaelisa [52 Fury] Well the 17pp was for a Master 1, it was just funny that it's Grand Intercession which most of us take for our Master 2 choice. I forsee them having a hard time unloading that one. 2.5pp sounds like a very reasonable price and I'd readily pay that for an Adept III I can use. The rares on my server go for about 1pp and I understand there are other costs involved plus time but when you want between 3.75pp (for stuff like Harmony) and 5pp (for stuff like Faithful Intercession) I think it's getting out of hand. By comparison I have never paid more than 25 gp for an Adept 1 so if you look at price to usage is an Adept III of Faithful Intercession really 2000% better than the Adept 1? __________________

12-13-2005, 09:20 PM	#22
BenEm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 188	Kendricke wrote: Takeo, You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion. It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries. What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month? Its a fact that they are making all healing classes heal with as close as possible capacity without giving everybody the same spells but you constantly refute this so now because the Devs say something you want to hear its suddenly "back -up" ....Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ! Your one funny little feller

12-14-2005, 05:38 AM	#23
Takeo1 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 107	Kendricke wrote: Takeo, You say my arguments hold no water, and that I should back up my statements. I present that Master I drop rates are increased (per Update notes) and that November 30th rates were FAR above what they should have been (presented a screenshot as testimony to the fact). I've also produced several random polls in the "We are so few" discussion. It's FACT that Master chest rates were increased with Live Update 17. It's FACT that the rates had to be scaled back within 24 hours (per patch notes) due to excessive drop rates in several zones. It's FACT that some guilds pulled in hundreds of rares and fables on November 30. It's FACT that polls produced by Templars in these forums so far indicate that Templars are still the most popular priest class, per "/who all" queries. What have you provided to prove your claim? Your word that Templar prices have dropped this month? That's it? What server? Did Paladin prices drop over the past month? What do I provide to support my claim? Common sense. Wake up, drink some coffee and recognize....people are greedy....well not all on AB, but most. If they can hoard for guild, or better yet, for self, then piece out spells for high prices, they WILL. Its very simple. Let me say it again....common sense and greed. You can point out anything else you want...it wont refute the price changes. Your /who checks are just Temps that are still being played aye? High level Temps that have what they need? Why would they need a T4 Ad3 or M1? Come on now...they fixxed the drop rates, the drops were hoarded, for guild or self, or are being pieced out. Thats it. Why make it more complex than it has to be? Do you recognize and understand my example of diamonds aye? Have they fixxed the drop rates in Alaska with a patch? No? Then why cant I get my wife a 4k Yellow for under 1k even in the Diamond District? Greed. /yawn Look - this wont go anywhere. They reason you are blasting this is totally made up in my opinion. You never have struck me as a fool, why not apply common sense now? People are quitting, retiring, alting, what-have-you. So the demand isnt there. On AB the prices have dropped because MANY Temps have bailed to alts or quit altogether. So even though some may WANT to gouge the other guy, they cant do it, with SPELLS. This is due mainly to people like Fel, who keeps the prices reasonable based on rares, which according to your supply theory should be coming in at about 20g a pop now....but still holding at 1p+. They KNOW they can still gouge there....so they do. They hoard and piece out....like diamonds. Anyways - I have some house repairs to do. I am having some issues with the exterior trim...hopefully my common sense wont fail me.... Lates.