Pre cast reactives ???

[BenEm]

I personally am not having luck with this and am looking for suggestions .

Some claim they do it all the time others like I claim they get lots of aggro .

This is what I do know from my own testing :

 

Casting both my ST reactive and my AE Reactive before a pull is a big no .. no

 

Casting just my ST @ master 2 wins me aggro immeadiately on things that con white or above apon pull from a Pally 2 levs higher pulling with an adept 3 taunt . It dosent take long for it to be pulled off in this case but not how I like to start a battle .

 

Casting my AE @ adept 3 also wins me aggro and takes longer to pull it off of me than the ST but not a ton more just more .

 

Casting a ST  With A Guardian 10 levs higher than me I was still winning aggro but the Guardian could pull it off so fast sometimes it wouldnt even make it to me . He claims he was pulling with a hate generator .

[Stjarna Kvar]

I often pre-buff both reactives when tank is getting ready to pull, but I always make him wait till I am back at full mana before he brings targets... I rarely get aggro on inc... but then may be situational. There is always the Harmony line to dump aggro and reduce mob dps while tank gets things in order. Wish it was 10 min instead of 15 min recast.

[Spite]

If the tank is pulling via damage or proxi pulling it is a no almost always. If he is pulling a single target with a taunt almost always a yes to do it (if the taunt is resisted you might live longer than the wimp next to you in VLA). If he is pulling a group with a taunt can be dicy but usually ok.

Basic guidelines i use. Hope they help.

[BenEm]

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Stjarna Kvarco wrote:
I often pre-buff both reactives when tank is getting ready to pull, but I always make him wait till I am back at full mana before he brings targets... I rarely get aggro on inc... but then may be situational. There is always the Harmony line to dump aggro and reduce mob dps while tank gets things in order. Wish it was 10 min instead of 15 min recast.

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Interesting I may need to throw it a bit earlier I used to be adament about the tank waiting for me to get back to full mana before he pulled . As I think of things here that is one I will try . A little more delay before his pull :smileywink: that could do it .

[BenEm]

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FiftyK wrote:

If the tank is pulling via damage or proxi pulling it is a no almost always. If he is pulling a single target with a taunt almost always a yes to do it (if the taunt is resisted you might live longer than the wimp next to you in VLA). If he is pulling a group with a taunt can be dicy but usually ok.

Basic guidelines i use. Hope they help.

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Thats pretty much what I  am seeing . Some claim their landing the AE and the ST and I just dont seem to be able to get away with that . Even when the MT is pulling with a hate generator .  Thanks for the reply .

[Xerxess]

What I do is right when the tank goes to pull cast the group reactive and when the mob gets to him cast the single reactive. If your tank is good he should keep aggro enough where it won't hit you. The only problem with reactives is when adds are coming. Thats why I throw up a Group reactive first, if adds come and hit the tank and they come straight for you atleast you have some sort of reactive keeping you alive for a few hits.

 

It also boils down to your group, the MT should be keeping aggro on adds also if they break off not just staying on one. Plus the first few hits the tank will take will be absorbed by the 2 reactives so you focus more on debuffing right off the bat then blasting heals to keep the tank alive...

 

 

[Ragamor]

Hmm.. I got a bit more careful in pre-casting reactives after Combat Update. Now I only prebuff the tank with single target reactive (master 2). If the tank pulls with taunt I almost never get the agro (only if the taunt is resisted). The tank in that case is a guardian, same level as me (55). She pulls mobs up to 5 levels above her and I get agro very seldom.

 

However prebuffing with both single target and group reactive is a bit more dangerous

 

Cheers,

Raga

[Buckelnase]

I cast my single reactive (lv 54, "Grand Intercession", Master2) before nearly every fight. If I am in a setting where other group members tend to get aggro, too, I cast my group reactive (lvl 42, "Crucial Intercession", Adept3) prior to buff, too. If it's a difficult mob (a named for instance) I cast "Shielding Faith" (lvl 43, Adept1), too. That's as much as 3 buffs prior to pull - I did this during Zalak raid yesterday, I did this during Scornfeather yesterday. And I didn't get aggro a single time. Timing is very important, though - you really have to have your buffs finished before pull (because of lag this sometimes is more difficult to recognize then it seems). But not too early - because "Shielding Faith" only lasts 30 sec and has a long recast timer. Most of our guild tanks have a macro, saying something like "10 sec until pull", which they use before more difficult pulls.

[Amey]

hmm sometimes i precast, sometimes i cast mid fight depending usually on mobs we are fighting and whether i am in middle of sending tells or something

Have never got aggro as far as I remember with either strategy - guess just got lucky or got good taunting tank friends?

I don't think i ever land reactives as mob inc - will play and see if i can draw aggro

Aggro management seems to me to be nothing like as necessary in eq1.

[Stjarna Kvar]

One more thing to remember is the range of your buffs. If the tank goes out of range of your buffs then comes back into range dragging mobs, to the mobs it looks like you just cast all your buffs at the same time, and therefore adds significant hate. Makes it really difficult to taunt the mobs off of you.

[BenEm]

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Stjarna Kvarco wrote:
One more thing to remember is the range of your buffs. If the tank goes out of range of your buffs then comes back into range dragging mobs, to the mobs it looks like you just cast all your buffs at the same time, and therefore adds significant hate. Makes it really difficult to taunt the mobs off of you.

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Wow never considered that ! thanks !

[Donte]

I rarely pre cast.  Only for named single encounters and I tell the tank to taunt pull.  Even GOC is getting me agro occasionaly as it likes to go off on pulls. 

 

watch the MT for a bit and see how he pulls.  bow pullers are the worst as the mobs will blow past them to you.  I prefer my tanks to AE taunt pull. 

 

Heck 4 rangers, a bard and a Brusier/Monk is all you need.  No need for a healer then.  Mobs go down(even names)so fast that your MT wont get hurt.  (no joke)

 

DPS in the middle to upper 50's

MT   300-400

Rangers  300-500  (wizzies work too)

Bard 200-300

 

= 2200 DPS per sec.  !!!!!!

 

Message Edited by Donte on 11-15-2005 09:20 AM

[Nindor2]

I always precast both reactives on any named and rarely to never grab aggro. I stand quite some ways away from the tank though, maybe range is an issue here. Grabbing aggro only plays a role if the named has multiple adds, but the adds are rarely enough of a menace in group situations to think about aggro much.

[Suite]

Ask the tank what level taunt they have. If they have an adept 3 taunt, you shouldn't draw aggro with a single target reactive. However, an adept 1 taunt will get you some healer aggro even with a single target reactive.

There is a night and day difference between adept 1 and adept 3. In my opinion, any class worth his or her salt maintains adept 3 spells in all crucial abilities (such as heals and special heals for priests, taunts and stances for fighters, etc.).

Hugs,

Suite

[Bishojo]

Pre cast before pull ........ big NO. Pre cast on last mob yes! What I mean?

 

Lets say we are in battle. You have the tank targetted so u should see also how is the HP of the last mob your are killing to finish the battle. Time your reactive casting right before the mob dies. Why?

 

1. If you cast reactive before pull u generate huge agro so mob might run directly to you.

2. If you cast the reactive right before the last mob is about to die:

 

                           a) you loose the agro since th elast mob will die and the next pull will not know about your precasted heal

                           b) since reactive has relatively long timer to be on you will have your reactive timer up at about 90pct when

                               tank is pulled the next grp of mobs

 

I never had an agro problem  like this.

 

 

[BozEuge]

It really depends how many mobs you are facing

In a general way, if tank can survive long enough to let you cast reactive after impact, do not pre-cast, it's far simpler. If not, use theses rules, it could help you :

- If you fight a single mob, there is usually no problem to pre-cast reactives, even in raid. Hate generated by tank is far enough to avoid you to draw aggro

- If you fight lots of mobs (4+), pre-cast reactive = you tank and it may hurt, especially in raid... In raid, I play usually in MT group so I only use group reactive/direct heal (other templar/inquisitor outside group use single reactive). My trick is to time well the group reactive cast (6 sec casting as a remind). Ideally, it should land 3 sec after encounter touch the main tank (3 sec is enough for tank to generate enough hate to cover it, even if all reactive trigger instant, less = you'll tank and die, more = MT lack of heal and die). So, estimate when encounter will touch the tank and start casting 2 or 3 sec before impact. Tricky but doable, need some learning

- If you fight average number of mob (2/3), it really depends on your tank aggro. A tank with adept 3 spells usually generates enough hate to let you pre-cast but it's not garanty. You have to test

 

A last advice : in fight where aggro is very instable (mental resistant mob with guardian tanking, aggro-reset mob, orange/red mob highly resistant to taunt, ...), remind that other spells can give you some high cumulative aggro, and then you could have to avoid them :

. Glory of Combat : the proc is helpfull as a secondaty heal but hate is awarded to the templar.

. Mark of ... (King, Celestial, etc) : healing can be really massive on a raid mob with lots of melee hitting the same mob. Hate is also awarded to the templar

 

Saphir, templar 60, leader of Fizzleblood, Kithicor

Bisoux, inquisitor 42/alchemist 60

Splotch, warlock 54

edit : fixed some spelling...

Message Edited by BozEugene on 11-22-2005 05:30 AM

[Arielle Nightshade]

Not sure if it's my casting timing..but I usually cast a group and single reactive on the MT (Group in case the mob AE's right off the bat...has really come in handy quite a few times).   I have not once gotten aggro from this.    I do have an exceptionally good tank with Adept 3 taunts...and did spend my first 50 levels as an aggro-magnet Warden.  It might just be an instinctive timing thing from having gotten my butt kicked thoroughly as a new druid. 

 

From having played both subclasses, though, I don't think the new Templar aggro is too bad.   The difference is someone who has played only a cleric as a healer is actually getting aggro now.  If I had not gotten used to it early on (as a druid) ..I'd be pretty annoyed at getting it post level 50 (as a Templar).    

 

The same mob with each character, same tank..has very different results.   Warden can do no precasting (except buffs that aren't already on)...or the mob will make a beeline (but this is not new for us).    Templar still has a bit more leeway to do some proactive casting.

[Vylo]

Pre LU13... i ALWAYS precast 3 reactives on my tank, Post LU13, i never cast a single reactive until AFTER the tank has their first taunt off.  one of the little learning curve things i had to learn the hard way about the "new way" to play a templar...

 

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Stjarna Kvarco wrote:

One more thing to remember is the range of your buffs. If the tank goes out of range of your buffs then comes back into range dragging mobs, to the mobs it looks like you just cast all your buffs at the same time, and therefore adds significant hate. Makes it really difficult to taunt the mobs off of you.

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i was always trying to figure out why sometimes i was getting agro on pulls!  i hadnt cast anything... my tank is my hubby, so i watched him and he was doing the same thing (taunts etc), there was no rhyme or reason why it was happening!  now i know! )  thanks!   same thing happened to the Illusionist we play with... and he was always razzin my hubby "nice taunt dumb [Removed for Content]" etc...  now we know   thanks!

[Timaarit]

I always pre cast reactives on MT and group. Why? Because otherwise I need to use my direct heals more. If I get aggro, I have group reactive on and it heals me while MT grabs aggro back. If he can't, I'll use my aggro reducer when it looks like I wont make it otherwise. But since our reactives work as they do, I really need to pre cast them.

[Antryg Mistrose]

I play paladin and templar, and in this case I think its the paladin's fault As a templar I always pre-cast with the ST reactive, frequently the group reactive too, for the tank to survive the pull if its long, and as posted above, to regen the power before combat starts. The exception is when a proximity pull is necessary, where the tank needs to say "nobody do anything" until ... First HO completion perhaps. As a paladin there are multiple hate generating things you can do on the pull, before you get back to the group.  One taunt isn't enough. Personally I normally pull with:

1. Long range damage spell or taunt
2. Ward (fast to cast, but can't do this moving any more, so only start running back after this)
3. Group taunt & Damage spell (Smite prayer line)
4. Single target taunt if back up,
5. Should be close to group now, so stun and or  interrupt as turn and set up mob
6. Sometimes a single HO too on the end.
7. When back in the group and the area is clear - both AoE attacks asap

1. and 2. Are in a macro along with a group message, and setting autoattack on, so they are fast 3. and 4. You can cast on the move as you run back The paladin should also be maintaining their hate transfer line - redemption or its upgrades on someone in the group.  If it's you who keep getting aggro, then it should be on you.  This spell they should have at adept 3 too. On named hard mob fights, or if I'm substantially lower than dps types in the group, I use Rescue early in the fight too.  Its NOT just for emergencies.  Group heal also is a nice aggro generator for a paladin, and helps healers out on hard mobs. I've had very little trouble getting and keeping aggro post LU13 as a paladin.  People not assisting (pickup groups) is the most common way of loosing it.  Paladins do work hard for aggro compared to guardians with their AggroWhenHit line, but still have all the tools to do well.

[Dillin]

I'd say talk with your tank.  If it's someone you group with all the time, might want to help them get maxed.  A really good tank makes all the difference in the world.