Exactly when does Glory of Combat trigger?

toxe14567 · 09-27-2005, 07:02 PM

Greetings fellow Templars! I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack? The reason I am asking is: I somehow got the feeling that it does not trigger as often as I'd expect it to. I mean I have often been in groups and cast two GoC's on two scouts, both armed with two weapons. But at least to me it seems that GoC triggers pretty rarely. Granted, 5% isn't that much of a big chance but still I'd except it to heal more often. Espescially when casted on two group members at once. Does it only trigger on auto attacks? Or does it trigger on combat arts / spells as well? Or is there any other trick to it?

Kendricke · 09-27-2005, 07:18 PM

I'd be interested in seeing some parses on just this spell. Let me check my own log when I get home. Let's see what the actual percentage is.

Ansar7 · 09-27-2005, 07:31 PM

Hmm, I'm still used to it only being castable on one person. I keep forgetting that it takes a concentration slot now. I usually put it on the guardian I group with and he uses a 1hander and shield. As a casual obeservation, I see it go off 1 or 2 times per encounter. I would love to see some more information on the proc rate of this spell as well. I will have to keep a closer tab on my log files.

xyriel · 09-27-2005, 07:54 PM

One thing to be careful with multiple castings, the healing is credited to templar. So if it procs 5 times, all the hate will be attributed to templar. Too much casting may result ending up with the aggro, espcially on adds.

Kendricke · 09-27-2005, 08:17 PM

xyriel wrote:

One thing to be careful with multiple castings, the healing is credited to templar. So if it procs 5 times, all the hate will be attributed to templar. Too much casting may result ending up with the aggro, espcially on adds.

Drop an emergency Harmony when that happens.

Rela · 09-27-2005, 09:23 PM

toxe14567 wrote:Greetings fellow Templars! I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack?

toxe, On any successful attack. I've run it on mages and it will proc with their spells also. In my solid guildie group, I run it on both the Swashy and the Assassin. They attack the fastest and most often and I can see this thing proc 10+ times (on a good day, 5 or so normally) on a yellow or orange triple up... with 382 heal (at Ad3) to everyone in the group for no mana... this thing owns.

Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 12:24 PM

Blast2hell · 09-27-2005, 09:59 PM

Relaeh wrote:

toxe14567 wrote:
Greetings fellow Templars!

I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack?

toxe,

On any successful attack. I've run it on mages and it will proc with their spells also. In my solid guildie group, I run it on both the Swashy and the Assassin. They attack the fastest and most often and I can see this thing proc 10+ times (on a good day, 5 or so normally) on a yellow or orange triple up... with 382 heal (at Ad3) to everyone in the group for no mana... this thing owns.

Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 12:24 PM

Well that's good to know, because I was wondering what was the better scout to cast this on. I've been running a 3 man group the past few nights killing 54-55 triple ups in Living Tombs. 52 Monk, 52 templar(met) and 51 ranger or 53 dirge. And It seemed the dirge triggered the GoC a lot more then the ranger, but maybe it was just a level issue, because at first I thought it was that the dirge was just duel wielding toe to toe, while the ranger was bow fighting from range. But if mages can trigger it with there spells, then I guess a ranger should be triggering it fine with his bow.

Rela · 09-28-2005, 12:09 AM

Blast2hell wrote:
Well that's good to know, because I was wondering what was the better scout to cast this on. I've been running a 3 man group the past few nights killing 54-55 triple ups in Living Tombs. 52 Monk, 52 templar(met) and 51 ranger or 53 dirge. And It seemed the dirge triggered the GoC a lot more then the ranger, but maybe it was just a level issue, because at first I thought it was that the dirge was just duel wielding toe to toe, while the ranger was bow fighting from range. But if mages can trigger it with there spells, then I guess a ranger should be triggering it fine with his bow.

Blast, I always go with the highest level guy if I have a choice and we have a chance of doing orange mobs. We did a test with a 51 Zerker tank... we had his Crushing, Piercing and Slashing buffed to where he acted like a lvl 60 Zerker (300+ skill) and he still only hit about 30% of the time on mobs that were orange to him. On yellow and lower he almost never missed. If the mob is orange to the MT or DPS, prepare for some issues. I'd suggest Templars always run it on the scout unless the mob is orange to them and then run it on someone else that the mob is not orange to them.

Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 03:10 PM

Donte · 09-28-2005, 02:13 AM

Dirge has crush, pierce, slashing buff. ranger does not. 51 ranger vs 53(more like 55/56) Dirge. GOC would proc more off the dirge.

Anyone have Adept III stats in this spell?

javis · 09-28-2005, 04:13 AM

I always put it on a melee dps if available, they usually dual weild which means more chance to proc. -Iz

Kayle · 09-28-2005, 06:04 AM

Adept III GoC heals for 381 across the group now.

It has a 5% chance to proc.

I put it on dual-wielders and people with very good haste items.

Jida · 09-28-2005, 05:26 PM

on a side note... i usually group as the 2nd templar in the group, therefore i turn off valor and the other group buff and cast another 2 glory of combat... thats 4 totall and if there is only 2 melee (tank and 1 scout type) i usually cast on the 2 healers and have them melle between casts. Just some advice,

NighthawkX · 10-06-2005, 02:33 PM

To make it so it was more fair for melee and balance it out between duel weilders, one handers, two hand users and even really slow two handers like bows etc. The developers set the proc based on 3 seconds. So you have a 5% chance to proc every 3 seconds assuming that person is making contact in that 3 seconds it won't matter who you put it on it will proc about the same. Best bet is to put it on the highest level melee in group Even if they have a big giant slow 2 hander it will still go off for them just as much if they are not missing.

Lot of melees learned this a long time ago when they found it odd that they would duel wield superfast weapons and would count how often it proced and the percentage for procs never ever came close. Finally a Dev posted on the boards how procs were set up unfortunately I am not sure where that post is anymore I am sure someone can find it if they want.

Unfortunately or fortunately depend on how you look at it, it is not a true 5% proc per hit but 5% per 3 seconds. Although at this time not positive if it gets effected by haste with the new combat system.

Basically like this if a weapon has a 3.0 second delay it has 5% chance to proc per hit, if it has 1.5 second delay than it only has 2.5% chance to proc per hit. Thus keeping people from being punished for chooseing a big slow two hander.

The above was for weapon procs and this spell I am not sure may act like a troubadors proc that goes off on any successfull spell attack which includes debuffs on targets anything negative agains the enemy. So if that is the case it would be best to place it on scouts as they have the fastest cast and recast timers on their offensive spells, dirges would be great for this. Tanks have fast cast and several offensive but slow recast timers making them not quite as good, and casters are slower casters which is also not as good. So if this is how they made it yeah dirges probably your best target than move to other scouts, just avoid other healers and probably mages.

My oppinion if this is the case first choice would be bards, than rogues, than predators than go to tanks. Also obviously make sure the person is not to low where they miss their ca's alot.

Message Edited by NighthawkX on 10-06-2005 03:46 AM

NighthawkX · 10-06-2005, 03:08 PM

This part I am not sure on I would love it if a cleric would test since I am thinking it would work like the troubadors aria line in how it procs.

Take a Guardian and have him put the maddening defense line on that procs taunts when he is hit, go to an area that is gray or low green something like the deer that swarm ya in mass and put the buff on him, make sure its something that will hit him activating his reactive proc. See if it will go off from the proc, if its 5% per offensive(which the reactive would be when it fired). This would give a nice bonus to put it on the Guardian if this worked.

Donte · 10-06-2005, 10:17 PM

In recent testing I've found GOC procs more off 2 handed group members. I have always thought something was off with duel weild procs. Doth my dirge weapons are imbued and I hit more than my zerker counter part, yet his 2 handed weapon procs more during fights than my duels combined. I have talked with other people mentioning similar experiences.

In a group with ranger, wizard, monk(tanking), and myself. I had room for one GOC. Of course I put it on the duel weild ranger(hightest dps of the two melee). I kept and ee out and rarely did GOC trigger. Fight after fight. So I switched the spell to the monk. Bamn, it proced on the first attack! Monk wasnt even damaged yet! Therearfter I saw proc ofter proc much more frequently.

To add, I consistantly see our 2 handed members weapons procing quite often.

nickels worth.

toxe14567 · 10-07-2005, 08:25 PM

Interresting point about the monk: I usually cast GoC on my scouts but once I casted it on a monk and it somehow seemed to trigger a lot more often than on those scouts. Maybe GoC likes monks. :smileywink:

NighthawkX · 10-07-2005, 10:06 PM

Not really giving info though of what it procs off of, I don't have a 47 templar so I can not test. Is it a weapon proc? If so than your best target would probably be main assist or a scout, main tank is in front and would get parried blocked more often reducing effectiveness. It won't matter if they duel wield or use a slow two hander. And on weapon procs fighter classes are slightly better because they have to use there regular melee more than scouts because of longer recast timers on there abilities.

But if this spell works more like the new procs they added with revamp where it goes off on any hostile spell or Ca either or than your best targets would be those who are using them more often which is scouts, again assuming levels are reasonable. Also monks have a proc effect on their regular attack that does a taunt this may be helping trigger it if it falls in this line and why your seeing more times for it go off. Not positive of this but guardians also have an effect like this that is reactive and why would kind of love to know as it would be a nice combination. No one really has stated though how it procs just who they choose to put it on.

Easiest way to test is put it on your self and go melee a gray don't cast nothing just swing and see if it goes off, if it does than its a weapon proc. Now if it only goes off sometimes when you cast hostile spells on the enemy like smite etc than it can proc like the new lines they added with the CU.

SenorPhrog · 10-10-2005, 04:57 PM

I only recently got the spell this weekend so I didn't have too much time to fool around with it. I put it on a pet belonging to the Necro I was hunting with and saw a few procs so its definetly at least melee but I'm very interested to see if it works with offensive spells to. If I'm reading this correctly also the hate is attributed to the Templar correct? Also has anyone tested the AE range on this?

Message Edited by Radar-X on 10-10-2005 09:04 AM

Blast2hell · 10-10-2005, 09:31 PM

yeah, the hate attributes to templar. I noticed last night the range was rather large.... I was outside of heal range still running toward MT and he proced it off and it still reached me.

-Aonein- · 10-10-2005, 10:17 PM

Kendricke wrote:

I'd be interested in seeing some parses on just this spell. Let me check my own log when I get home. Let's see what the actual percentage is.

My wife and i tried parsing it, and Combatstats isnt picking it up because all it says is " you healed for x " amount. It has no description on the proc, if it did it might pick it up.

If anyone has a parser that picks on healing and healing procs, id love to get a link to it please because im really looking forward to giving this art a good parsing.

-Aonein- · 10-10-2005, 10:21 PM

Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on.

As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy.

Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it.

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM

Supernova17 · 10-11-2005, 02:22 AM

Most exp groups I have 4 GoC's up =O Valor, Divine Praetorate and then 4 GoC's are maintainted. My order of placing them: Bard (they can buff their crush/slash/pierce the best and have the best chance to always hit a mob) Brawler (lets face it, these guys hit freakishly fast) Predators (especially on Rangers, I got 3 procs off our Ranger when he spammed all his ranged CA's) Berserker (Glory of Combat + Rampage, HOLY ****) Rouges If none or not enough are present to fill out the 4 GoC's, I put up the Redoubt lines.

Dragonreal · 10-11-2005, 03:54 AM

-Aonein- wrote:
Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on.

As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy.

Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it.

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM

If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine.

-Aonein- · 10-11-2005, 08:18 AM

Dragonrealms wrote:

-Aonein- wrote:
Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on.

As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy.

Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it.

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM

If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine.

Does it register the proc from Imbued BP also? Because this could potentially throw it off seeing all im going to see is a total HP healed for, ya know where im talking about, in fight statistics?

Ill play around with it anyways. Thanks.

NighthawkX · 10-11-2005, 09:57 AM

It appears this procs like the dirges except there's is damage instead of healing, the people to put it on are people with a lot of procs and a lot of CA's specially aoe CA's. I still haven't heard anybody if they tested it on a guardian using his maddening defense line would like to know. But this would explain partially why brawlers also get pretty good marks as they have a proc going off quite often when they swing. If this is the case honestly best person to put it on is actually not bards as about half of there abilities are considered spells not CA's, specially there aoe's are considered spells. Berserkers sound awesome for it, and like I say if it goes off the proc on guardians not a bad choice either the more enemies hitting him just heal him up. Than brawlers with there single target proc.

Weapon speed really plays no effect on this type of spell, don't worry about what weapons they have, they can use a rusted axe and it will proc about the same. Also it is not a matter of how much damage they put out but how many CA's they use and how many targets it has, the more targets they have the better. Also the CA's have to land so MT is not the best choice unless like I say it will proc off of Guardians maddening defense if not than he is a poor choice, MT's will get there CA's parried blocked etc lot more since they are in front of the mob instead of behind.

Donte · 10-11-2005, 07:50 PM

When I solo with my templar(as little as elvenly possible believe me) I auto attack and its procs a decent amount. I do not notice it go off with spell casting however. Dirge and ranger are bad choices for GOC since it doesnt seem to go off with bow shots and songs. It seems totally melee based. swashys, monks, zerks, MA's all good choices the more I use this. I keep a redoubt or two on MT and any low melee clas in the group. Helps them dps on the orange mobs.

-Aonein- · 10-11-2005, 09:17 PM

-Aonein- wrote:

Dragonrealms wrote:

-Aonein- wrote:
Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on.

As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy.

Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it.

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM

If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine.

Does it register the proc from Imbued BP also? Because this could potentially throw it off seeing all im going to see is a total HP healed for, ya know where im talking about, in fight statistics?

Ill play around with it anyways. Thanks.

As i feared its only giving me a total amount healed and not how many times it procs.

Guardians Maddening Defense doesnt do damage, its just a pure taunt where Berserkers on the other hand with there Offending Defense does do damage on the proc but less taunt then Guards. Guardians because theres is a pure taunt only is a 50% chance to proc but Berserkers is only a 20% chance to proc because it has damage tied into the art. Therefore Guardians AoE taunt wont proc this ability because its not inflicting no melee damage on the opponents.

Berserkers Offensive stance is also a AoE proc, so your best bet is to put it on a Berserker for maximum proc ratio because a Berserker with slow delay weapons will get a very high proc ratio, for example a 3.8 delay weapon all though most say 12% chance to proc on these weps they are really a 15% chance when you run them through the formula. So you have 5 mobs in a group, Berserkers specialise in AoE melee combat, you have a very high chance at this skill procing alot.

Faster weapons do not always mean better with CA's like this and its is totally melee based just like the description on the Spell states :

Glory of Combat - On a succesful melee attack this spell has a 5% chance to cast combat glory on target.

Simple test for it is this, get a Berserker and take him to mobs that are 5 lvls below you, group mobs is what you want for this test and a Berserker with a very slow weapon delay ie 2.7, 2.9 or 3.8, tell the Berserker to stand there with Offending Defense up and running but dont attack the mobs and watch how much it procs, then tell him to start fighting the mobs like he normally would fight groups of mobs which is using his AoE skills, now take the Berserker and do the same with very fast dual weild weapons ie: 1.2, 1.5 and 1.7 and do the same again, do the tests a few times and compair the difference.

Now take the Berserker and go up against a single ^^^ up mob, use the same tactic, slow weps vs fast dual weild weps while using Offending Defense.

Now after you have done all this, get the Berserker to play a DPS role in the group and get another fighter class to tank the mobs, and get the Berserker to put on his Unbridled Fury buff while using a slow weapon again, then use the same tactics again with fast dual weilds. Do the same in reguards to group and single target ^^^'s.

Ill let you guys build your conclusions from your results. :smileywink:

NighthawkX · 10-11-2005, 09:31 PM

Actually aonin if it works like dirge CA ability or the troubadors magic(theres is on magic arts not combat arts) ability it doesn not have to do damage, all it has to do is effect a mob, it can be a debuff it can be mez etc, fear you name it, it does not have to do damage. There abilities are worded just like the wording on this spell, but no damage is required, aoe debuff has a chance to proc off each target as well so aoe's are better than single target.

So don't automatically dismiss maddening defense since it doesn't do damage. The only reason I wasn't sure if it would or not is because of the delay involved your not actually casting it at the time and making an effect, but procing a reactive and not sure if it works off reactive procs. But I can say that it would work on an aoe taunt with no damage required.

I have a troubador so have tested there ability enough, just assuming it works similar but have not tested the templars

-Aonein- · 10-13-2005, 06:08 AM

NighthawkX wrote:

Actually aonin if it works like dirge CA ability or the troubadors magic(theres is on magic arts not combat arts) ability it doesn not have to do damage, all it has to do is effect a mob, it can be a debuff it can be mez etc, fear you name it, it does not have to do damage. There abilities are worded just like the wording on this spell, but no damage is required, aoe debuff has a chance to proc off each target as well so aoe's are better than single target.

So don't automatically dismiss maddening defense since it doesn't do damage. The only reason I wasn't sure if it would or not is because of the delay involved your not actually casting it at the time and making an effect, but procing a reactive and not sure if it works off reactive procs. But I can say that it would work on an aoe taunt with no damage required.

I have a troubador so have tested there ability enough, just assuming it works similar but have not tested the templars

It depends if its a debuff that requires you to do melee damage to execute the debuff, because all of the fighter CA's that do offensive based damage are classed as Melee hits with debuffs tied into them.

Guardians AoE taunt is just a taunt, its not based of melee damage, test it out, i bet it doesnt proc off it. Seeing as he has a 50% chance to proc it, its easier to test it on a Guard, but in doing this test, you need the guard to be facing away from the mobs so he doesnt riposte, which is also classed as melee damage.

NighthawkX · 10-13-2005, 06:53 AM

aonein all I can say is for bards damage version like this it can proc off an offensive CA for dirge, or spell for troubador. I have tested it on them. I don't have the ability to test this on a templar since I don't have a 47 templar. For the bards it will proc off of a mez, a fear, debuff, stun, taunt of any sort even if there is absolutely no damage already applied to it, it does not actually have to cause damage just be offensive attack. Dirges works off aoe taunts without damage needed, the damage component is not required for theres, the only require is that it is offensive, meaning heals on the group won't work, or buffs on the group etc won't work, has to be on the mobs. Also the bards version have a chance to proc for each creature hit as well.

Granted would like to hear from a high level Templar to confirm things.

09-27-2005, 07:02 PM	#1
toxe14567 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	Greetings fellow Templars! I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack? The reason I am asking is: I somehow got the feeling that it does not trigger as often as I'd expect it to. I mean I have often been in groups and cast two GoC's on two scouts, both armed with two weapons. But at least to me it seems that GoC triggers pretty rarely. Granted, 5% isn't that much of a big chance but still I'd except it to heal more often. Espescially when casted on two group members at once. Does it only trigger on auto attacks? Or does it trigger on combat arts / spells as well? Or is there any other trick to it? __________________ Toxe - ~~Templer~~ Inquistor 90 Rizz - Brigand 79 Server Valor - Gemeinschaft der Suchenden

09-27-2005, 07:18 PM	#2
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	I'd be interested in seeing some parses on just this spell. Let me check my own log when I get home. Let's see what the actual percentage is. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

09-27-2005, 07:31 PM	#3
Ansar7 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 27	Hmm, I'm still used to it only being castable on one person. I keep forgetting that it takes a concentration slot now. I usually put it on the guardian I group with and he uses a 1hander and shield. As a casual obeservation, I see it go off 1 or 2 times per encounter. I would love to see some more information on the proc rate of this spell as well. I will have to keep a closer tab on my log files. __________________

09-27-2005, 07:54 PM	#4
xyriel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 48	One thing to be careful with multiple castings, the healing is credited to templar. So if it procs 5 times, all the hate will be attributed to templar. Too much casting may result ending up with the aggro, espcially on adds. __________________

09-27-2005, 08:17 PM	#5
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	xyriel wrote: One thing to be careful with multiple castings, the healing is credited to templar. So if it procs 5 times, all the hate will be attributed to templar. Too much casting may result ending up with the aggro, espcially on adds. Drop an emergency Harmony when that happens. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

09-27-2005, 09:23 PM	#6
Rela General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	toxe14567 wrote:Greetings fellow Templars! I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack? toxe, On any successful attack. I've run it on mages and it will proc with their spells also. In my solid guildie group, I run it on both the Swashy and the Assassin. They attack the fastest and most often and I can see this thing proc 10+ times (on a good day, 5 or so normally) on a yellow or orange triple up... with 382 heal (at Ad3) to everyone in the group for no mana... this thing owns. Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 12:24 PM __________________ Iriax - 60 Swashy - Permafrost Relaeh - 60 Templar - Permafrost

09-27-2005, 09:59 PM	#7
Blast2hell Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 472	Relaeh wrote: toxe14567 wrote: Greetings fellow Templars! I got a question about Glory of Combat. Exactly when does it trigger? If I am reading the spell description right then it should trigger its group heal when the person I cast it on does a succesful melee attack? toxe, On any successful attack. I've run it on mages and it will proc with their spells also. In my solid guildie group, I run it on both the Swashy and the Assassin. They attack the fastest and most often and I can see this thing proc 10+ times (on a good day, 5 or so normally) on a yellow or orange triple up... with 382 heal (at Ad3) to everyone in the group for no mana... this thing owns. Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 12:24 PM Well that's good to know, because I was wondering what was the better scout to cast this on. I've been running a 3 man group the past few nights killing 54-55 triple ups in Living Tombs. 52 Monk, 52 templar(met) and 51 ranger or 53 dirge. And It seemed the dirge triggered the GoC a lot more then the ranger, but maybe it was just a level issue, because at first I thought it was that the dirge was just duel wielding toe to toe, while the ranger was bow fighting from range. But if mages can trigger it with there spells, then I guess a ranger should be triggering it fine with his bow. __________________ Athian Miere 70 Barbarian Templar Paradigm-Unrest EQ2 Utility Programs Written By me: Priest Healing Parser EQ2MusicModder

09-28-2005, 12:09 AM	#8
Rela General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Blast2hell wrote: Well that's good to know, because I was wondering what was the better scout to cast this on. I've been running a 3 man group the past few nights killing 54-55 triple ups in Living Tombs. 52 Monk, 52 templar(met) and 51 ranger or 53 dirge. And It seemed the dirge triggered the GoC a lot more then the ranger, but maybe it was just a level issue, because at first I thought it was that the dirge was just duel wielding toe to toe, while the ranger was bow fighting from range. But if mages can trigger it with there spells, then I guess a ranger should be triggering it fine with his bow. Blast, I always go with the highest level guy if I have a choice and we have a chance of doing orange mobs. We did a test with a 51 Zerker tank... we had his Crushing, Piercing and Slashing buffed to where he acted like a lvl 60 Zerker (300+ skill) and he still only hit about 30% of the time on mobs that were orange to him. On yellow and lower he almost never missed. If the mob is orange to the MT or DPS, prepare for some issues. I'd suggest Templars always run it on the scout unless the mob is orange to them and then run it on someone else that the mob is not orange to them. Message Edited by Relaeh on 09-27-2005 03:10 PM __________________ Iriax - 60 Swashy - Permafrost Relaeh - 60 Templar - Permafrost

09-28-2005, 02:13 AM	#9
Donte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 204	Dirge has crush, pierce, slashing buff. ranger does not. 51 ranger vs 53(more like 55/56) Dirge. GOC would proc more off the dirge. Anyone have Adept III stats in this spell? __________________ Jacaou

09-28-2005, 04:13 AM	#10
javis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	I always put it on a melee dps if available, they usually dual weild which means more chance to proc. -Iz __________________

09-28-2005, 06:04 AM	#11
Kayle Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 195	Adept III GoC heals for 381 across the group now. It has a 5% chance to proc. I put it on dual-wielders and people with very good haste items. __________________ Kalei 60 Templar (Retired) Steamfont Last Video: Solusek Fist

09-28-2005, 05:26 PM	#12
Jida Fansite Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 849	on a side note... i usually group as the 2nd templar in the group, therefore i turn off valor and the other group buff and cast another 2 glory of combat... thats 4 totall and if there is only 2 melee (tank and 1 scout type) i usually cast on the 2 healers and have them melle between casts. Just some advice, __________________

10-06-2005, 02:33 PM	#13
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	To make it so it was more fair for melee and balance it out between duel weilders, one handers, two hand users and even really slow two handers like bows etc. The developers set the proc based on 3 seconds. So you have a 5% chance to proc every 3 seconds assuming that person is making contact in that 3 seconds it won't matter who you put it on it will proc about the same. Best bet is to put it on the highest level melee in group Even if they have a big giant slow 2 hander it will still go off for them just as much if they are not missing. Lot of melees learned this a long time ago when they found it odd that they would duel wield superfast weapons and would count how often it proced and the percentage for procs never ever came close. Finally a Dev posted on the boards how procs were set up unfortunately I am not sure where that post is anymore I am sure someone can find it if they want. Unfortunately or fortunately depend on how you look at it, it is not a true 5% proc per hit but 5% per 3 seconds. Although at this time not positive if it gets effected by haste with the new combat system. Basically like this if a weapon has a 3.0 second delay it has 5% chance to proc per hit, if it has 1.5 second delay than it only has 2.5% chance to proc per hit. Thus keeping people from being punished for chooseing a big slow two hander. The above was for weapon procs and this spell I am not sure may act like a troubadors proc that goes off on any successfull spell attack which includes debuffs on targets anything negative agains the enemy. So if that is the case it would be best to place it on scouts as they have the fastest cast and recast timers on their offensive spells, dirges would be great for this. Tanks have fast cast and several offensive but slow recast timers making them not quite as good, and casters are slower casters which is also not as good. So if this is how they made it yeah dirges probably your best target than move to other scouts, just avoid other healers and probably mages. My oppinion if this is the case first choice would be bards, than rogues, than predators than go to tanks. Also obviously make sure the person is not to low where they miss their ca's alot. Message Edited by NighthawkX on 10-06-2005 03:46 AM

10-06-2005, 03:08 PM	#14
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	This part I am not sure on I would love it if a cleric would test since I am thinking it would work like the troubadors aria line in how it procs. Take a Guardian and have him put the maddening defense line on that procs taunts when he is hit, go to an area that is gray or low green something like the deer that swarm ya in mass and put the buff on him, make sure its something that will hit him activating his reactive proc. See if it will go off from the proc, if its 5% per offensive(which the reactive would be when it fired). This would give a nice bonus to put it on the Guardian if this worked.

10-06-2005, 10:17 PM	#15
Donte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 204	In recent testing I've found GOC procs more off 2 handed group members. I have always thought something was off with duel weild procs. Doth my dirge weapons are imbued and I hit more than my zerker counter part, yet his 2 handed weapon procs more during fights than my duels combined. I have talked with other people mentioning similar experiences. In a group with ranger, wizard, monk(tanking), and myself. I had room for one GOC. Of course I put it on the duel weild ranger(hightest dps of the two melee). I kept and ee out and rarely did GOC trigger. Fight after fight. So I switched the spell to the monk. Bamn, it proced on the first attack! Monk wasnt even damaged yet! Therearfter I saw proc ofter proc much more frequently. To add, I consistantly see our 2 handed members weapons procing quite often. nickels worth. __________________ Jacaou

10-07-2005, 08:25 PM	#16
toxe14567 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	Interresting point about the monk: I usually cast GoC on my scouts but once I casted it on a monk and it somehow seemed to trigger a lot more often than on those scouts. Maybe GoC likes monks. :smileywink: __________________ Toxe - ~~Templer~~ Inquistor 90 Rizz - Brigand 79 Server Valor - Gemeinschaft der Suchenden

10-07-2005, 10:06 PM	#17
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	Not really giving info though of what it procs off of, I don't have a 47 templar so I can not test. Is it a weapon proc? If so than your best target would probably be main assist or a scout, main tank is in front and would get parried blocked more often reducing effectiveness. It won't matter if they duel wield or use a slow two hander. And on weapon procs fighter classes are slightly better because they have to use there regular melee more than scouts because of longer recast timers on there abilities. But if this spell works more like the new procs they added with revamp where it goes off on any hostile spell or Ca either or than your best targets would be those who are using them more often which is scouts, again assuming levels are reasonable. Also monks have a proc effect on their regular attack that does a taunt this may be helping trigger it if it falls in this line and why your seeing more times for it go off. Not positive of this but guardians also have an effect like this that is reactive and why would kind of love to know as it would be a nice combination. No one really has stated though how it procs just who they choose to put it on. Easiest way to test is put it on your self and go melee a gray don't cast nothing just swing and see if it goes off, if it does than its a weapon proc. Now if it only goes off sometimes when you cast hostile spells on the enemy like smite etc than it can proc like the new lines they added with the CU.

10-10-2005, 04:57 PM	#18
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	I only recently got the spell this weekend so I didn't have too much time to fool around with it. I put it on a pet belonging to the Necro I was hunting with and saw a few procs so its definetly at least melee but I'm very interested to see if it works with offensive spells to. If I'm reading this correctly also the hate is attributed to the Templar correct? Also has anyone tested the AE range on this? Message Edited by Radar-X on 10-10-2005 09:04 AM __________________

10-10-2005, 09:31 PM	#19
Blast2hell Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 472	yeah, the hate attributes to templar. I noticed last night the range was rather large.... I was outside of heal range still running toward MT and he proced it off and it still reached me. __________________ Athian Miere 70 Barbarian Templar Paradigm-Unrest EQ2 Utility Programs Written By me: Priest Healing Parser EQ2MusicModder

10-10-2005, 10:17 PM	#20
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Kendricke wrote: I'd be interested in seeing some parses on just this spell. Let me check my own log when I get home. Let's see what the actual percentage is. My wife and i tried parsing it, and Combatstats isnt picking it up because all it says is " you healed for x " amount. It has no description on the proc, if it did it might pick it up. If anyone has a parser that picks on healing and healing procs, id love to get a link to it please because im really looking forward to giving this art a good parsing. __________________

10-10-2005, 10:21 PM	#21
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on. As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy. Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM __________________

10-11-2005, 02:22 AM	#22
Supernova17 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,317	Most exp groups I have 4 GoC's up =O Valor, Divine Praetorate and then 4 GoC's are maintainted. My order of placing them: Bard (they can buff their crush/slash/pierce the best and have the best chance to always hit a mob) Brawler (lets face it, these guys hit freakishly fast) Predators (especially on Rangers, I got 3 procs off our Ranger when he spammed all his ranged CA's) Berserker (Glory of Combat + Rampage, HOLY ****) Rouges If none or not enough are present to fill out the 4 GoC's, I put up the Redoubt lines.

10-11-2005, 03:54 AM	#23
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	-Aonein- wrote: Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on. As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy. Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine.

10-11-2005, 08:18 AM	#24
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Dragonrealms wrote: -Aonein- wrote: Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on. As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy. Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine. Does it register the proc from Imbued BP also? Because this could potentially throw it off seeing all im going to see is a total HP healed for, ya know where im talking about, in fight statistics? Ill play around with it anyways. Thanks. __________________

10-11-2005, 09:57 AM	#25
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	It appears this procs like the dirges except there's is damage instead of healing, the people to put it on are people with a lot of procs and a lot of CA's specially aoe CA's. I still haven't heard anybody if they tested it on a guardian using his maddening defense line would like to know. But this would explain partially why brawlers also get pretty good marks as they have a proc going off quite often when they swing. If this is the case honestly best person to put it on is actually not bards as about half of there abilities are considered spells not CA's, specially there aoe's are considered spells. Berserkers sound awesome for it, and like I say if it goes off the proc on guardians not a bad choice either the more enemies hitting him just heal him up. Than brawlers with there single target proc. Weapon speed really plays no effect on this type of spell, don't worry about what weapons they have, they can use a rusted axe and it will proc about the same. Also it is not a matter of how much damage they put out but how many CA's they use and how many targets it has, the more targets they have the better. Also the CA's have to land so MT is not the best choice unless like I say it will proc off of Guardians maddening defense if not than he is a poor choice, MT's will get there CA's parried blocked etc lot more since they are in front of the mob instead of behind.

10-11-2005, 07:50 PM	#26
Donte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 204	When I solo with my templar(as little as elvenly possible believe me) I auto attack and its procs a decent amount. I do not notice it go off with spell casting however. Dirge and ranger are bad choices for GOC since it doesnt seem to go off with bow shots and songs. It seems totally melee based. swashys, monks, zerks, MA's all good choices the more I use this. I keep a redoubt or two on MT and any low melee clas in the group. Helps them dps on the orange mobs. __________________ Jacaou

10-11-2005, 09:17 PM	#27
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	-Aonein- wrote: Dragonrealms wrote: -Aonein- wrote: Also its procs off melee attacks only. So any Fighter or Scout is the best bet to put it on. As it stands with the game now, your weapon delay plays a massive factor on your proc ratio not only from weapon procs, but also CA / Spell procs just like this one. So in general, for a Berserker this is because of our AoE damage abilites which is all classed as Melee attacks, give us a very slow 2 hander or the slowest dual weild weapons we can get ie: Leafblades and watch the spell glow like crazy. Im still after a parser that will register heals as i cant get Combat stats to parse heals or procs from healing. Once i find one that will or learn how to make Combat stats do it for me, ill post the results based on numerous weapon setups to show you guys how it works for those who dont fully understand it. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 10-11-2005 05:22 AM If you just tack on %phph% at the end of the players line of combatstats, it'll pick up heals just fine. Does it register the proc from Imbued BP also? Because this could potentially throw it off seeing all im going to see is a total HP healed for, ya know where im talking about, in fight statistics? Ill play around with it anyways. Thanks. As i feared its only giving me a total amount healed and not how many times it procs. Guardians Maddening Defense doesnt do damage, its just a pure taunt where Berserkers on the other hand with there Offending Defense does do damage on the proc but less taunt then Guards. Guardians because theres is a pure taunt only is a 50% chance to proc but Berserkers is only a 20% chance to proc because it has damage tied into the art. Therefore Guardians AoE taunt wont proc this ability because its not inflicting no melee damage on the opponents. Berserkers Offensive stance is also a AoE proc, so your best bet is to put it on a Berserker for maximum proc ratio because a Berserker with slow delay weapons will get a very high proc ratio, for example a 3.8 delay weapon all though most say 12% chance to proc on these weps they are really a 15% chance when you run them through the formula. So you have 5 mobs in a group, Berserkers specialise in AoE melee combat, you have a very high chance at this skill procing alot. Faster weapons do not always mean better with CA's like this and its is totally melee based just like the description on the Spell states : Glory of Combat - On a succesful melee attack this spell has a 5% chance to cast combat glory on target. Simple test for it is this, get a Berserker and take him to mobs that are 5 lvls below you, group mobs is what you want for this test and a Berserker with a very slow weapon delay ie 2.7, 2.9 or 3.8, tell the Berserker to stand there with Offending Defense up and running but dont attack the mobs and watch how much it procs, then tell him to start fighting the mobs like he normally would fight groups of mobs which is using his AoE skills, now take the Berserker and do the same with very fast dual weild weapons ie: 1.2, 1.5 and 1.7 and do the same again, do the tests a few times and compair the difference. Now take the Berserker and go up against a single ^^^ up mob, use the same tactic, slow weps vs fast dual weild weps while using Offending Defense. Now after you have done all this, get the Berserker to play a DPS role in the group and get another fighter class to tank the mobs, and get the Berserker to put on his Unbridled Fury buff while using a slow weapon again, then use the same tactics again with fast dual weilds. Do the same in reguards to group and single target ^^^'s. Ill let you guys build your conclusions from your results. :smileywink: __________________

10-11-2005, 09:31 PM	#28
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	Actually aonin if it works like dirge CA ability or the troubadors magic(theres is on magic arts not combat arts) ability it doesn not have to do damage, all it has to do is effect a mob, it can be a debuff it can be mez etc, fear you name it, it does not have to do damage. There abilities are worded just like the wording on this spell, but no damage is required, aoe debuff has a chance to proc off each target as well so aoe's are better than single target. So don't automatically dismiss maddening defense since it doesn't do damage. The only reason I wasn't sure if it would or not is because of the delay involved your not actually casting it at the time and making an effect, but procing a reactive and not sure if it works off reactive procs. But I can say that it would work on an aoe taunt with no damage required. I have a troubador so have tested there ability enough, just assuming it works similar but have not tested the templars

10-13-2005, 06:08 AM	#29
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	NighthawkX wrote: Actually aonin if it works like dirge CA ability or the troubadors magic(theres is on magic arts not combat arts) ability it doesn not have to do damage, all it has to do is effect a mob, it can be a debuff it can be mez etc, fear you name it, it does not have to do damage. There abilities are worded just like the wording on this spell, but no damage is required, aoe debuff has a chance to proc off each target as well so aoe's are better than single target. So don't automatically dismiss maddening defense since it doesn't do damage. The only reason I wasn't sure if it would or not is because of the delay involved your not actually casting it at the time and making an effect, but procing a reactive and not sure if it works off reactive procs. But I can say that it would work on an aoe taunt with no damage required. I have a troubador so have tested there ability enough, just assuming it works similar but have not tested the templars It depends if its a debuff that requires you to do melee damage to execute the debuff, because all of the fighter CA's that do offensive based damage are classed as Melee hits with debuffs tied into them. Guardians AoE taunt is just a taunt, its not based of melee damage, test it out, i bet it doesnt proc off it. Seeing as he has a 50% chance to proc it, its easier to test it on a Guard, but in doing this test, you need the guard to be facing away from the mobs so he doesnt riposte, which is also classed as melee damage. __________________

10-13-2005, 06:53 AM	#30
NighthawkX Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	aonein all I can say is for bards damage version like this it can proc off an offensive CA for dirge, or spell for troubador. I have tested it on them. I don't have the ability to test this on a templar since I don't have a 47 templar. For the bards it will proc off of a mez, a fear, debuff, stun, taunt of any sort even if there is absolutely no damage already applied to it, it does not actually have to cause damage just be offensive attack. Dirges works off aoe taunts without damage needed, the damage component is not required for theres, the only require is that it is offensive, meaning heals on the group won't work, or buffs on the group etc won't work, has to be on the mobs. Also the bards version have a chance to proc for each creature hit as well. Granted would like to hear from a high level Templar to confirm things.