What happened to 'priests can expect to do more damage after combat changes'?

Coranth · 09-23-2005, 01:29 AM

I am a level 50 Templar with 85 INT ...

Currently I am doing about 40% less damage (DPS) solo then I did pre-patch (which was too little then to begin with) The first reason for the drop is the "Warring faith" line is now roughly 1/2 as powerful as it was before. Pre patch Warring faith was 250 damage with 100 per tick DOT now its 110 damage with 60 per tick DOT. The Second reason for my huge drop in solo DPS is the interupts and stuns/stiffles. (Mostly the interrupts)

I have noticed they seem to have made healing spells a bit harder to interrupt (but they still fizzle) On the other hand, trying to cast damage spells under attack by more then one monster in VERY hard. I was fighting 3 double down creatures 4 levels below me. I had to cast the same attack spell 8 times (no exageration)

I have basically 4 spells, one group spell for 250 to encounter (VERY long casting time, gets interupted every time), Two normal nukes, both for 200 damage, and lastly the Warring Faith line that now only hits for 110 with a DOT for 60 a tick.

THIS IS SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE DAMAGE FOR ANY CLASS LEVEL 50.

I realize most templars dont care about solo play. We, as templars were always very bad at it. But we were told by the devs we could expect to do more damage as priests... Which for Templars at least, was a lie.

I took me nearly 5 minutes to solo a single up enemy 4 levels below me. When I try to do even the simplest SS faction quest it takes me much longer then the 30 minute reset on getting a new faction quest to finish the task... and it is very frustrating that it takes 14 spells and a few HOs to kill a creature that a mage can two-hit, not to mention the self healing I have to do or all the spells that get interrupted.

With my heavy armour on my avoidance is 9%... WHAT IS THE POINT OF HEAVY ARMOUR FOR A PRIEST? Just means I will be hit and interupted more.

THE COMBAT CHANGES HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT STRIP TEMPLARS OF ABILITIES.

We lost our STR debuff, we can not take hits even in heavy armour because we are interrupted constantly, and thus, have trouble healing ourself, healing is harder then before (Which is fine by me, but coupled with the other changes makes me furious) and solo play is impractical.

Having two other level 50 chars puts what was done to my templar in even starker contrast. In general, I quite happy with the combat changes for my mage and fighter and in general and I like LU #13 EXCEPT for what was done to templars. We still have no real group utility. (No a fake 12 second Mez is not utility) Sooth is okay, but given the choice wouldnt you rather have a group invis or an EVAC that other priests get? SOMETHING?

Sorry if my post rambled, this is all just train-of-thought. (and for those who wondered why I care so much about my templar or templars in general, my Templar was my first characture, and I still consider her my 'main' characture)

Sincerly,

One very angry SOE customer

(edit: changed single down to single up monster, no it doesnt take 5 minutes for single down.)

Message Edited by Coranthia on 09-24-2005 01:58 PM

NosmokIng · 09-23-2005, 01:54 AM

Well said bro!!

Kendricke · 09-23-2005, 02:03 AM

Again, you're looking at one aspect at the expense of others. Warring Faith is only one spell. However, also keep in mind that health values have been lowered across the board - not merely for players.

Other factors to take into account include con level of what it is you are fighting, the WIS of the encounter you may be fighting, your own INT, what spells you are using, whether or not you're using Heroic Opportunities correctly (which scale now with the spells you use), whether or not you are actively meleeing, and what other spells you may be casting.

I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem.

Timaarit · 09-23-2005, 11:15 AM

Kendricke wrote:
I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem.

Other classes can 'blow thought' those mobs within a minute or less. I am glad you actually have met the problem even though you dont understand it. So roll a fighter or mage alt and see how much more enjoyable soloing is. But I must warn you, when you do this, there will be no turning back to soloing templar.

rollando · 09-23-2005, 01:54 PM

The problem is not that it's impossible to solo a templar. Actually it is possible to kill a mid yellow solo mob without much sweat.

The problem is that any solo kill is very long and tedious, removing the fun from the game.

I am lucky enough to have friends to play with. However, since the combat update, I have the strange feeling of just being useless in many game situations :smileysad:

SenorPhrog · 09-23-2005, 05:16 PM

Kendricke wrote:

Again, you're looking at one aspect at the expense of others. Warring Faith is only one spell. However, also keep in mind that health values have been lowered across the board - not merely for players.

Other factors to take into account include con level of what it is you are fighting, the WIS of the encounter you may be fighting, your own INT, what spells you are using, whether or not you're using Heroic Opportunities correctly (which scale now with the spells you use), whether or not you are actively meleeing, and what other spells you may be casting.

I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem.

I have to agree. I'm only level 44 and with no Adept III or Master I's and it takes me 2 minutes at most to kill a yellow con that is at least lvl 46. If you are level 50 and you can't solo a level 46 down arrow you really need to adjust your strategy or check your equipment.

Kendricke · 09-23-2005, 05:32 PM

Timaarit wrote:

Kendricke wrote:
I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem.

Other classes can 'blow thought' those mobs within a minute or less. I am glad you actually have met the problem even though you dont understand it.

So roll a fighter or mage alt and see how much more enjoyable soloing is. But I must warn you, when you do this, there will be no turning back to soloing templar.

I'm currently running at least two classes from each Archetype, as well as a couple extras. A few are higher level, but I still consider Kendricke the most fun (though my conjuror has taken on new life recently, I'll admit).

The fact remains that I've NEVER been able to solo as effectively as other classes. Name the "magic time" that we could. When were Templars able to solo as well as fighters or mages? When? At what point since Beta - or even in Beta - could we solo as well as those classes?

I was never promised a game that would enable every class to solo equally. I was promised a game where every class could solo. I could not solo in Everquest as a cleric. I can in Everquest 2.

Coranth · 09-25-2005, 12:46 AM

To be clear,

All my spells are adept 1 and there is nothing wrong with my attack pattern. I debuff then then Use my attack spells and Ho's just like evryone else. No class should ever have to suffer such slow soloing as templars do. Killing things with my templar with dozens of spells that my mage can kill in 2 spells doesnt strike me as either fun or balanced.

I have 3 level 50 chars, Templar, Necro and SK. When you see things from this perspective, it is more clear how slow templars solo. Why is this nessisary? Would a 50% power upgrade on templar attack spells do anything but improve game balance? We are the least damaging class out there and with 50% more damage from spells we would still solo quite slowly by compairison. We would still do better off in groups for exp so there is no worry we wouldnt group.

I know many templars are pleased, and feel they solo better after the patch but I think many of them simply do not realize how badly they have it relative to other classes.

We heal in the same range as other healers now, but we have far less damage then most of them (and no, I am not just talking abou tnukes here, I include reactive damage shields and the like) and no utility spells to speak of. (Evac, runbuff, group invis) I cant help but seriously question how SOE can call this balance.

Message Edited by Coranthia on 09-24-2005 01:49 PM

Skydude · 09-25-2005, 01:10 AM

My God sniff sniff, you guys learn how to play. Check MoK for the divine mit reduction and learn to play the toon. We were never supposed to be an offensive powerhouse. I kick more butt than most classes on our server, why? Because I learned the new system and had a good grasp of old. The Templar is just as kick booty as it has ever been and you guys only complain of your own deficiencies. Man this makes me sick to my stomach that some of you even play the class.

I'm sick of all the different classes whining because they have no idea how to cope with the changes. Am I a fanboy for SOE, no. I think they need to get their head out of their butt as much as most of you, but geez its mostly the same people coming here and crying about the same crude every day.

Wah, I have to work for what I get.

Wah, I have no damage.

Wah, I don't have group cures. (that never worked to begin with)

Wah, I don't have parry.

Wah, I can't stack reactives.

etc...etc...etc...etc.........

Good lord its a group game now and none of you see this. So end your anti-social behavior and get in the right groups or guild.

I can go for days in a solo environment that no other class can match. Your speaking of kill time on a single mob, but what you fail to realize is we are the most durable class, kill the same mobs with your SK for 2 hours and then try your templar. If it doesn't even out well then you need to re-evaluate your strategy. I rocked before and I rock now. SOE can try to hold me back, but they will fail. Now get some balls and go kill like you should be doing instead of crying here.

When a guardian or zerker fails at 4 lvl 54 truth guards that i can solo, [Removed for Content] do you call that? I challenge any of you to play your toon to its fullest potential instead of coming here and freaking whining.

Coranthia, you take your other toons and pit them against me on the same mobs and I bet I'm there left standing while you run here to whine.

Dillin · 09-25-2005, 01:29 AM

I think I have to agree with the OP. I grouped with a lvl 40 Warden and he was out damaging me (Both of our spell sets are at either App4 or Adept1). So much for a combat healer. The only reason I out heal him is because I have Crucial Intercession at Master 2. Granted, I take a little less damage then him but I don't know if it's because I am 5 lvls higher.

Umfortunately, the Templar class since the LU #13 has totally failed my ideal of what a Templar is. A lot of direct healing, able to take some pounding, and dish out some nice damage. As for utilities, I've never felt that a Templar should have any, but we should be the best healers and combat wise should be close to a Fighter class. Let the Shamans have their wards, cures, and debuffs as their primary focus and the Druids have their DPS as well as cures and some debuffs, of course they should have some good healing, but no one should top the Templar, by far, in pure healing ability. That's our focus.

And for God's sake... can we PLEASe get the Kite Shield??? If anyone wants to check their history on Templars, they didn't use Bucklers, they used Kite type shields and a SWORD.

Not that SOE has ever been accurate in their depictions of anything (Played SWG for almost 2 years).

Croa · 09-27-2005, 09:18 PM

Cybst0rm wrote:

And for God's sake... can we PLEASe get the Kite Shield??? If anyone wants to check their history on Templars, they didn't use Bucklers, they used Kite type shields and a SWORD.

Hmm.. so like say... a Paladin? Since a Paladin is a kite shield and sword-wielding defender, I'd say that Paladins are EQ2's version of a historical Templar. From what I've read on history, Paladins were more of a Knight than a healing protector. It's clear that a Paladin in this game is closest to what real Templar was.

For that matter, what's an Inquisitor? Looking at that word, I would guess their damage style to be mainly DOT but I don't see where the healing fits in.

Besides, I doubt that Templars in history used magic power to revive people over and over and over each time they die, so trying to use history to justify anything in a game isn't worth it in my opinion.

Message Edited by Croake on 09-27-2005 10:19 AM

xyriel · 09-29-2005, 12:21 AM

Coranthia wrote:

I am a level 50 Templar with 85 INT ...

Currently I am doing about 40% less damage (DPS) solo then I did pre-patch (which was too little then to begin with)

You have to compare apples with apples. Most mob have reduced HP after patch. I would expect a reduction in DPS in accordance with this change.

I checked my logs and looked at how much elapse time it took to take down a no arrow even con mob before lu13 and after lu13. It's roughly the same.

Sometimes, we're so into stats we forget what we're measuring. Did you parse the same type of data and see the impact? Remember the 1up solo did not exist prior to lu13. This new type of solo mob gives you extra xp for you trouble so I would expect it takes a bit more time to take down.

Also, remember that the devine debuf has move from the rebuke line to the mark line. I don't even cast the rebuke line anymore as it only lowers migitation which has no impact on DD.

Finaly, you have to factor in down time. Some classes kill mobs much faster but have to wait for health regen to pull another. I have very very little downtime when soloing. Only the 1ups give me about 30 seconds down time. All others, I'm ready within a couple of ticks to pull ( I always have crafted drinks and totem of the hawk).

Heiro · 10-01-2005, 01:16 PM

Since the combat change I can do more damage... with my auto attacks.

Melee dps has increased ...and I can tell the difference.

Our magic attacks (dd's and DoT's) are still quite weak.. but Soloing is still possible. It does take longer, and takes more power.

Not saying I am either happy or unhappy with the combat changes, but just responding to this threads topic.

Terabithi · 10-05-2005, 05:36 AM

errrr.

no offense to the original poster....but it seems to me you aren't too bright. literally.

A level 50 with an int of 85 (!!!) and you expect to be doing dmg with your spells?

85 is pathetic for a level 50 character. They have made crystal clear that INT is the modfier for spell damage...and 85 is not going to cut it. Get your INT up there hun....and your damage issue goes away. Well....at least it gets a heck of alot better. Your wis gets you a nice chunk of power to cast from.....but without int you're not meeting the potential of your spells.

Zabumt · 10-05-2005, 01:55 PM

An important point to note here is that Templars never ever soloed that quickly. Solo well? Yes. Rampage through hordes of mobs as fast as a mage? No. Pre-patch, I soloed mobs at the same speed that I do post-patch. Slowly. heh... We're a grouping class. If you want to solo most of the time, either eat the time expense or do like I do and log on a mage alt. SMILEY

Big Da · 10-05-2005, 02:44 PM

Our strength in soloing is not speed but control, we cannot power through mobs but we can manage the fight very well. Especially a single encounter

For a single encounter..

I for one start of by stacking all my debuffs after putting down a sign of infirmity you have to make a choice here of if you are going to use auto-attack and damage over time as condemning smite has that little mez that is broken if we do damage. So I find running through HOs without DoT makes for a smoother easy to manage fight. On a side note symbol of corruption has a Wis debuff that I suppose I could put in the every little helps camp.

For a group encounter...

I find this a lot harder. I pretty much just chain nuke while throwing my reactives and spot heals out while praying I won’t suffer a constant stream of interrupts. (There is a new group buff that prevents stuns/mez etc that could help a lot here)

We do have our strengths, our resists get very good and we can choose to try and win through attrition (which is obviously not very fun).

Damage post 50 is adequate I suppose, I don’t really know about the sub 50 revamp damage as I was 50 when the implemented the changes.

MrDiz · 10-05-2005, 02:55 PM

Templars solo better than guardians. Ill repeat that. Templars solo better than guardians.Fights take about the same time, but templars can solo slightly harder mobs.Just though id add that for your consideration.

09-23-2005, 01:54 AM	#2
NosmokIng Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Nottingham UK Posts: 42	Well said bro!! __________________

09-23-2005, 02:03 AM	#3
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Again, you're looking at one aspect at the expense of others. Warring Faith is only one spell. However, also keep in mind that health values have been lowered across the board - not merely for players. Other factors to take into account include con level of what it is you are fighting, the WIS of the encounter you may be fighting, your own INT, what spells you are using, whether or not you're using Heroic Opportunities correctly (which scale now with the spells you use), whether or not you are actively meleeing, and what other spells you may be casting. I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

09-23-2005, 11:15 AM	#4
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Kendricke wrote: I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem. Other classes can 'blow thought' those mobs within a minute or less. I am glad you actually have met the problem even though you dont understand it. So roll a fighter or mage alt and see how much more enjoyable soloing is. But I must warn you, when you do this, there will be no turning back to soloing templar.

09-23-2005, 05:16 PM	#6
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Kendricke wrote: Again, you're looking at one aspect at the expense of others. Warring Faith is only one spell. However, also keep in mind that health values have been lowered across the board - not merely for players. Other factors to take into account include con level of what it is you are fighting, the WIS of the encounter you may be fighting, your own INT, what spells you are using, whether or not you're using Heroic Opportunities correctly (which scale now with the spells you use), whether or not you are actively meleeing, and what other spells you may be casting. I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem. I have to agree. I'm only level 44 and with no Adept III or Master I's and it takes me 2 minutes at most to kill a yellow con that is at least lvl 46. If you are level 50 and you can't solo a level 46 down arrow you really need to adjust your strategy or check your equipment. __________________

09-23-2005, 05:32 PM	#7
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Timaarit wrote: Kendricke wrote: I know you listed some of these, but if you're level 50 and it's taking you 5 minutes to solo a level 46 down arrow, I'm absolutely stunned. I'm using all handcrafted and quested gear and hardly any Adept III or Master I's and I'm having NO problems with say, croc caves, diggers, or prowlers...all of which are about the same as the target you claimed is taking you five minutes. I'm blowing through most in a couple minutes on the outside, and without much problem. Other classes can 'blow thought' those mobs within a minute or less. I am glad you actually have met the problem even though you dont understand it. So roll a fighter or mage alt and see how much more enjoyable soloing is. But I must warn you, when you do this, there will be no turning back to soloing templar. I'm currently running at least two classes from each Archetype, as well as a couple extras. A few are higher level, but I still consider Kendricke the most fun (though my conjuror has taken on new life recently, I'll admit). The fact remains that I've NEVER been able to solo as effectively as other classes. Name the "magic time" that we could. When were Templars able to solo as well as fighters or mages? When? At what point since Beta - or even in Beta - could we solo as well as those classes? I was never promised a game that would enable every class to solo equally. I was promised a game where every class could solo. I could not solo in Everquest as a cleric. I can in Everquest 2. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

09-23-2005, 01:29 AM	#1
Coranth Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	I am a level 50 Templar with 85 INT ... Currently I am doing about 40% less damage (DPS) solo then I did pre-patch (which was too little then to begin with) The first reason for the drop is the "Warring faith" line is now roughly 1/2 as powerful as it was before. Pre patch Warring faith was 250 damage with 100 per tick DOT now its 110 damage with 60 per tick DOT. The Second reason for my huge drop in solo DPS is the interupts and stuns/stiffles. (Mostly the interrupts) I have noticed they seem to have made healing spells a bit harder to interrupt (but they still fizzle) On the other hand, trying to cast damage spells under attack by more then one monster in VERY hard. I was fighting 3 double down creatures 4 levels below me. I had to cast the same attack spell 8 times (no exageration) I have basically 4 spells, one group spell for 250 to encounter (VERY long casting time, gets interupted every time), Two normal nukes, both for 200 damage, and lastly the Warring Faith line that now only hits for 110 with a DOT for 60 a tick. THIS IS SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE DAMAGE FOR ANY CLASS LEVEL 50. I realize most templars dont care about solo play. We, as templars were always very bad at it. But we were told by the devs we could expect to do more damage as priests... Which for Templars at least, was a lie. I took me nearly 5 minutes to solo a single up enemy 4 levels below me. When I try to do even the simplest SS faction quest it takes me much longer then the 30 minute reset on getting a new faction quest to finish the task... and it is very frustrating that it takes 14 spells and a few HOs to kill a creature that a mage can two-hit, not to mention the self healing I have to do or all the spells that get interrupted. With my heavy armour on my avoidance is 9%... WHAT IS THE POINT OF HEAVY ARMOUR FOR A PRIEST? Just means I will be hit and interupted more. THE COMBAT CHANGES HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT STRIP TEMPLARS OF ABILITIES. We lost our STR debuff, we can not take hits even in heavy armour because we are interrupted constantly, and thus, have trouble healing ourself, healing is harder then before (Which is fine by me, but coupled with the other changes makes me furious) and solo play is impractical. Having two other level 50 chars puts what was done to my templar in even starker contrast. In general, I quite happy with the combat changes for my mage and fighter and in general and I like LU #13 EXCEPT for what was done to templars. We still have no real group utility. (No a fake 12 second Mez is not utility) Sooth is okay, but given the choice wouldnt you rather have a group invis or an EVAC that other priests get? SOMETHING? Sorry if my post rambled, this is all just train-of-thought. (and for those who wondered why I care so much about my templar or templars in general, my Templar was my first characture, and I still consider her my 'main' characture) Sincerly, One very angry SOE customer (edit: changed single down to single up monster, no it doesnt take 5 minutes for single down.) Message Edited by Coranthia on 09-24-2005 01:58 PM

09-23-2005, 01:54 PM	#5
rollando Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 123	The problem is not that it's impossible to solo a templar. Actually it is possible to kill a mid yellow solo mob without much sweat. The problem is that any solo kill is very long and tedious, removing the fun from the game. I am lucky enough to have friends to play with. However, since the combat update, I have the strange feeling of just being useless in many game situations :smileysad:

09-25-2005, 12:46 AM	#8
Coranth Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	To be clear, All my spells are adept 1 and there is nothing wrong with my attack pattern. I debuff then then Use my attack spells and Ho's just like evryone else. No class should ever have to suffer such slow soloing as templars do. Killing things with my templar with dozens of spells that my mage can kill in 2 spells doesnt strike me as either fun or balanced. I have 3 level 50 chars, Templar, Necro and SK. When you see things from this perspective, it is more clear how slow templars solo. Why is this nessisary? Would a 50% power upgrade on templar attack spells do anything but improve game balance? We are the least damaging class out there and with 50% more damage from spells we would still solo quite slowly by compairison. We would still do better off in groups for exp so there is no worry we wouldnt group. I know many templars are pleased, and feel they solo better after the patch but I think many of them simply do not realize how badly they have it relative to other classes. We heal in the same range as other healers now, but we have far less damage then most of them (and no, I am not just talking abou tnukes here, I include reactive damage shields and the like) and no utility spells to speak of. (Evac, runbuff, group invis) I cant help but seriously question how SOE can call this balance. Message Edited by Coranthia on 09-24-2005 01:49 PM

09-25-2005, 01:10 AM	#9
Skydude Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 44	My God sniff sniff, you guys learn how to play. Check MoK for the divine mit reduction and learn to play the toon. We were never supposed to be an offensive powerhouse. I kick more butt than most classes on our server, why? Because I learned the new system and had a good grasp of old. The Templar is just as kick booty as it has ever been and you guys only complain of your own deficiencies. Man this makes me sick to my stomach that some of you even play the class. I'm sick of all the different classes whining because they have no idea how to cope with the changes. Am I a fanboy for SOE, no. I think they need to get their head out of their butt as much as most of you, but geez its mostly the same people coming here and crying about the same crude every day. Wah, I have to work for what I get. Wah, I have no damage. Wah, I don't have group cures. (that never worked to begin with) Wah, I don't have parry. Wah, I can't stack reactives. etc...etc...etc...etc......... Good lord its a group game now and none of you see this. So end your anti-social behavior and get in the right groups or guild. I can go for days in a solo environment that no other class can match. Your speaking of kill time on a single mob, but what you fail to realize is we are the most durable class, kill the same mobs with your SK for 2 hours and then try your templar. If it doesn't even out well then you need to re-evaluate your strategy. I rocked before and I rock now. SOE can try to hold me back, but they will fail. Now get some balls and go kill like you should be doing instead of crying here. When a guardian or zerker fails at 4 lvl 54 truth guards that i can solo, [Removed for Content] do you call that? I challenge any of you to play your toon to its fullest potential instead of coming here and freaking whining. Coranthia, you take your other toons and pit them against me on the same mobs and I bet I'm there left standing while you run here to whine.

09-25-2005, 01:29 AM	#10
Dillin Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 401	I think I have to agree with the OP. I grouped with a lvl 40 Warden and he was out damaging me (Both of our spell sets are at either App4 or Adept1). So much for a combat healer. The only reason I out heal him is because I have Crucial Intercession at Master 2. Granted, I take a little less damage then him but I don't know if it's because I am 5 lvls higher. Umfortunately, the Templar class since the LU #13 has totally failed my ideal of what a Templar is. A lot of direct healing, able to take some pounding, and dish out some nice damage. As for utilities, I've never felt that a Templar should have any, but we should be the best healers and combat wise should be close to a Fighter class. Let the Shamans have their wards, cures, and debuffs as their primary focus and the Druids have their DPS as well as cures and some debuffs, of course they should have some good healing, but no one should top the Templar, by far, in pure healing ability. That's our focus. And for God's sake... can we PLEASe get the Kite Shield??? If anyone wants to check their history on Templars, they didn't use Bucklers, they used Kite type shields and a SWORD. Not that SOE has ever been accurate in their depictions of anything (Played SWG for almost 2 years). __________________ Aeonn 90 Dirge Karthes 90 Templar All around bad azz

09-27-2005, 09:18 PM	#11
Croa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	Cybst0rm wrote: And for God's sake... can we PLEASe get the Kite Shield??? If anyone wants to check their history on Templars, they didn't use Bucklers, they used Kite type shields and a SWORD. Hmm.. so like say... a Paladin? Since a Paladin is a kite shield and sword-wielding defender, I'd say that Paladins are EQ2's version of a historical Templar. From what I've read on history, Paladins were more of a Knight than a healing protector. It's clear that a Paladin in this game is closest to what real Templar was. For that matter, what's an Inquisitor? Looking at that word, I would guess their damage style to be mainly DOT but I don't see where the healing fits in. Besides, I doubt that Templars in history used magic power to revive people over and over and over each time they die, so trying to use history to justify anything in a game isn't worth it in my opinion. Message Edited by Croake on 09-27-2005 10:19 AM

09-29-2005, 12:21 AM	#12
xyriel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 48	Coranthia wrote: I am a level 50 Templar with 85 INT ... Currently I am doing about 40% less damage (DPS) solo then I did pre-patch (which was too little then to begin with) You have to compare apples with apples. Most mob have reduced HP after patch. I would expect a reduction in DPS in accordance with this change. I checked my logs and looked at how much elapse time it took to take down a no arrow even con mob before lu13 and after lu13. It's roughly the same. Sometimes, we're so into stats we forget what we're measuring. Did you parse the same type of data and see the impact? Remember the 1up solo did not exist prior to lu13. This new type of solo mob gives you extra xp for you trouble so I would expect it takes a bit more time to take down. Also, remember that the devine debuf has move from the rebuke line to the mark line. I don't even cast the rebuke line anymore as it only lowers migitation which has no impact on DD. Finaly, you have to factor in down time. Some classes kill mobs much faster but have to wait for health regen to pull another. I have very very little downtime when soloing. Only the 1ups give me about 30 seconds down time. All others, I'm ready within a couple of ticks to pull ( I always have crafted drinks and totem of the hawk). __________________

10-01-2005, 01:16 PM	#13
Heiro Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 146	Since the combat change I can do more damage... with my auto attacks. Melee dps has increased ...and I can tell the difference. Our magic attacks (dd's and DoT's) are still quite weak.. but Soloing is still possible. It does take longer, and takes more power. Not saying I am either happy or unhappy with the combat changes, but just responding to this threads topic.

10-05-2005, 05:36 AM	#14
Terabithi General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 67	errrr. no offense to the original poster....but it seems to me you aren't too bright. literally. A level 50 with an int of 85 (!!!) and you expect to be doing dmg with your spells? 85 is pathetic for a level 50 character. They have made crystal clear that INT is the modfier for spell damage...and 85 is not going to cut it. Get your INT up there hun....and your damage issue goes away. Well....at least it gets a heck of alot better. Your wis gets you a nice chunk of power to cast from.....but without int you're not meeting the potential of your spells. __________________

10-05-2005, 01:55 PM	#15
Zabumt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 489	An important point to note here is that Templars never ever soloed that quickly. Solo well? Yes. Rampage through hordes of mobs as fast as a mage? No. Pre-patch, I soloed mobs at the same speed that I do post-patch. Slowly. heh... We're a grouping class. If you want to solo most of the time, either eat the time expense or do like I do and log on a mage alt. __________________ Halthar 70 Dwarf Templar - Unrest Zabumtik 60 Gnome Wizard - Unrest

10-05-2005, 02:44 PM	#16
Big Da Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 201	Our strength in soloing is not speed but control, we cannot power through mobs but we can manage the fight very well. Especially a single encounter For a single encounter.. I for one start of by stacking all my debuffs after putting down a sign of infirmity you have to make a choice here of if you are going to use auto-attack and damage over time as condemning smite has that little mez that is broken if we do damage. So I find running through HOs without DoT makes for a smoother easy to manage fight. On a side note symbol of corruption has a Wis debuff that I suppose I could put in the every little helps camp. For a group encounter... I find this a lot harder. I pretty much just chain nuke while throwing my reactives and spot heals out while praying I won’t suffer a constant stream of interrupts. (There is a new group buff that prevents stuns/mez etc that could help a lot here) We do have our strengths, our resists get very good and we can choose to try and win through attrition (which is obviously not very fun). Damage post 50 is adequate I suppose, I don’t really know about the sub 50 revamp damage as I was 50 when the implemented the changes.

10-05-2005, 02:55 PM	#17
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Templars solo better than guardians. Ill repeat that. Templars solo better than guardians.Fights take about the same time, but templars can solo slightly harder mobs.Just though id add that for your consideration. __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )