Shocked and Dismayed on DoF Launch Day

Suite · 09-13-2005, 11:57 PM

I play EQ2 with most of my household for a total of seven accounts. We played EQ1 for almost six years, and I have played a troubador (bard) and a cleric or templar in both EQ1 and EQ2 (as well as in every other MMORPG I've played). I normally welcome well thought-out changes and had no reason to doubt that SOE would take care of the templar community when they made their combat changes or launched the DoF expansion. I was never unhappy with what they did to us in EQ1 and so I figured this would be good for us, too.

Today I logged on and started looking at my templar spells. I play a lvl 50 templar on the Blackburrow server. The bread-and-butter of my healing line is Crucial Intercession. YESTERDAY, my Adept III Crucial Intercession provided a 477 heal and a +212 mitigation against crushing and piercing damage, and cast Intercession upon termination if the healing power wasn't used up.

TODAY, my Adept III Crucial Intercession provides only a 207-253 heal. Period. If I use it as my Master II upgrade, it will provide only a 244-299 heal.

I played EQ2 beta and play on the test server also. I thought I was prepared for these changes, but seeing this terrible nerf made me sick to my stomach. I've logged out of the game and will think about returning later... but in the meantime, I'd like to hear from other templars about your first reaction to what SOE has done to the templar now? I'm especially interested in hearing from other lvl 50+ templars who come from raiding guilds, or those who have played healers for many years in MMORPGs. Maybe I'm over-reacting and maybe I'm missing something.

Please, I'm not looking to flame anyone or to be flamed... but until today I really loved this game and my templar. Now I am just discouraged. In /ooc people were shouting about what bad things had been done to their classes, while some of the mages and other priests were gloating. This just doesn't seem right... so give me a better perspective. Surely I'll have one after I go back and compare what's changes spell by spell, right?

.... right?

Suite / Eliana

SenorPhrog · 09-14-2005, 12:05 AM

Granted I haven't logged in yet or even starting patching but these changes were long in coming. I mean if you played test then you had to be aware of the shift they were making from the reactives to the single heals. I can't say you are wrong to be upset or hurt. I can just look at the positive. The rare harvest drop rate is increasing so Adept III's should be getting cheaper. Just find the spell you need.

rtoub · 09-14-2005, 12:18 AM

I wouldn't base your opinion on the amount your best heal does. The combat changes were game wide and included NPC mobs. Give it a while to adjust to the changes and see if you can still heal a group and keep them alive or not. That is the true test and not the amount because the amount of damage mobs do has changed as well.

Topi · 09-14-2005, 12:55 AM

If npcs are scaled down i must suck something fierce. I just went into Harclaves and the very first gnoll killed me after a fight that lasted over 5 minutes. i reviewed my new spells and understand what they do. The thing kicked my butt. Im level 42 templar and i did everything i could just to stay alive . and those little cutsey new pacify spells dont make up for the fact that our reactives are garbage now. I did bot even get the thing to half health before it killed me. this was the first first gnoll you encounter in harclaves. Solo intanced zone.

Bookbunny · 09-14-2005, 01:16 AM

Lots of the numeric values of our spells has changed. What we need to remember as we try things out is that the numeric value of AC, Mitigation and DPS has changed as well. Hopefully we will find that our lesser heals are more than sufficient to heal the lesser damage being done to our tanks. (Speculation and hope, don't flame me)

As I reorganized my spellbook I was relieved to see that most things are staying the same as far as what they do. My biggest disappointment was when I realized our single target Vitaes are all on the same recast timer, so no spamming to vitaes one after another.

Any idea how to properly make use of the revised Sign line - Sign of Weakness on up. It is now a pacify. What exactly is that?!?

Anark · 09-14-2005, 01:41 AM

I agree you totally and I'm sure the 98 % of the Templars will do also. Soe one more time crashed the game like they did in Luclin,LoY,PoP,GoD,bla bla bla.....Verant please come on back!! There are yet thousands of people loving the manners you used to do. I'm playing a Lvl 50 Templar In CrushBone Server and I had exactly the same sensations as you....I know Templars used to be the best healers before the big nerf from far but now....pff now we're just scum. Worst changes we got.... Crucial Intercession ( It used to heal 477 and +212 to the mitigations x9 and tank got any of the agro derived from the Reactive Heal ) Now it heals 244-299 with no mitigation and grats you wining all the agro. Resolve ( Great Spell Used to Absorb 3 next attacks totally ) Now it dispels 75 Counters of Magic,Mental,Piercing bla bla bla ( Less Heat or Cold anything pff... ) Sign of Infirmity ( I've it in Master I and used to debuff 33 str AE ) Now it just pacifies for 12 seconds with a recast of 20 So you can't pacify your way down to no where,concluding it will never work as good as Harmony did in Everquest 1. Shielding Faith ( Used to give a great power pool +- 300¿? ) Now it just give AE resists and a war of 873 hps that lasts 36 seconds but only useful to magic,mental and divines....concluding,just another useless spell. Any AE Cure Trait We're templars but we don't have anymore an AE cure. Rest of Heals Rest of Heals are closely exactly like before,some of em heal more but they also cost more power.Recast Time is now bigger in direct ones,and in the Single Target Reactive one. By the way now any reactive stands max for 30 seconds when they used to do for 45. At the other hand SoE awarded us overpowering the spell Praetorate that nows don't use any concentration slot and it lasts till you decide cancel it....Enjoy !! Others priests are all better than they were before....wardens got root now,all heal spells are better,regen from all Healing over Time line stacks now...nukes,resists buffs,sow....furys got nukes over 1k ,yet have their heals,AE Cures,....bla bla bla. Grats Soe on the sad update,I hope at least the 70 % of people understand it like a we've the servers overcrowdeds,enjoy your playing in D&L ( For exemple ) but not here. Edited with more thingys SMILEY

I'm turning crazy.

Message Edited by Anarkia on 09-13-2005 02:51 PM

Angelece21 · 09-14-2005, 01:56 AM

there aren't any words to say how i feel right now, its along the lines of [Removed for Content], but its not quite that. I also went into Harclave, which used to be decent for me, i could take out mobs in less then a minute, have half life and half power still. Go to kill the first mob, got me down to 0 mana and about 20% life before i finally killed it. got the next two mobs, and then died trying to make the jump.. but ok, that was my fault and i was doing decently, didnt die before that so i wasnt quite mad yet. decided to group with a guildy. then i started to get angry, i cant heal him worth crap, all my spells being on the same timer makes it so i cant cast decently. I can understand some of the vitaes being on the same timer, makes it so you cant chaint hose, but every single one of the other heals except for my one restoration, thats pretty harsh. I feel pretty much useless now..

DartheDi · 09-14-2005, 03:01 AM

Suite, I have to agree with you. Although I am not a level 50 Temp, only level 39, I have spent the last 4 weeks xp grinding obviously for no reason. I have remained optimistic about the changes even though they didnt sound too appealing. Logging in today and going to EL only to find grey mobs were no longer grey but green was rather shocking. Then trying to solo a 35 blue con and practically having my butt handed to me is not a very good start. I could barely keep myself alive. The encounter ended with me at 20% health and 10% mana. With my heals and vitaes on the same timer, it makes it very difficult to heal effectivly. Throwing in there 6 interuptions and 2 fizzles, its a wonder I even made it our alive. I was grouped with a fury also, he had absolutely no problems keeping the grop alive. Me on the hand, I struggled. This is not the role of a Templar. Templars/Clerics are healers and have/will always be healers. It is our job to keep the group alive as effectivly as we can. Not a druids job. At this present time, I am wondering if it is even worth dishing out money and time for this game.

Selene1 · 09-14-2005, 03:23 AM

i was very worried in the beginning, but as i played today i found that: i now solo better. I handle whites with no arrows far easier then before, low yellows as well. In groups, i still heal pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good as well, and my power seems to last far far far longer then it used to (not to mention that i kicked the [Removed for Content] of my 50 monk and 50 zerker friends while stilll having 80+% power left. The ranger totally handed me my behind on a silver platter though) so all in all, my first impressions are quite good. What i have found however, is that now the arrows seem much more important then they did before. I do definitly not want to attack something with arrows up, even if its lower level. Whereas i can without to much trouble take yellows with nor arrows and even a lot easier if they have arrows down.

Truffor · 09-14-2005, 03:25 AM

Just worried a bit, what is your avoidance? Mine is only 12.4%... bug? templar 50 almost full ebon

Message Edited by Truffor on 09-13-2005 04:26 PM

Suite · 09-14-2005, 03:32 AM

Topika wrote:

If npcs are scaled down i must suck something fierce. I just went into Harclaves and the very first gnoll killed me after a fight that lasted over 5 minutes. i reviewed my new spells and understand what they do. The thing kicked my butt. Im level 42 templar and i did everything i could just to stay alive . and those little cutsey new pacify spells dont make up for the fact that our reactives are garbage now. I did bot even get the thing to half health before it killed me. this was the first first gnoll you encounter in harclaves. Solo intanced zone.

This is what I'm experiencing and hearing, also. I'm glad I play several classes and that other classes are happy... but my templar was my main and this is far worse than I had imagined for the high end of the game.

To answer the first two people... you make good points. I'll take this philosophically and see how it goes this week. Yes, I saw changes on test that weren't too overwhelming, but that's because I don't play a toon lvl 40-50 on test, probably. Had I experienced this a month or so ago, I would have hung up my templar and leveled a class that is happy today--like my swashy or maybe warden or guardian.

I wonder if SOE was just trying to get all the templars to ditch their templars and level up alts... to keep them in the game through some evil ruse like that? :smileywink:

Eliana

Suite · 09-14-2005, 03:42 AM

Angelece21 wrote:

there aren't any words to say how i feel right now, its along the lines of [Removed for Content], but its not quite that. [...] decided to group with a guildy. then i started to get angry, i cant heal him worth crap, all my spells being on the same timer makes it so i cant cast decently. I can understand some of the vitaes being on the same timer, makes it so you cant chaint hose, but every single one of the other heals except for my one restoration, thats pretty harsh. I feel pretty much useless now..

DartheDiva wrote:
Suite, I have to agree with you. Although I am not a level 50 Temp, only level 39, I have spent the last 4 weeks xp grinding obviously for no reason. I have remained optimistic about the changes even though they didnt sound too appealing. [...] With my heals and vitaes on the same timer, it makes it very difficult to heal effectivly. Throwing in there 6 interuptions and 2 fizzles, its a wonder I even made it our alive.

I was grouped with a fury also, he had absolutely no problems keeping the grop alive. Me on the hand, I struggled. This is not the role of a Templar. Templars/Clerics are healers and have/will always be healers. It is our job to keep the group alive as effectivly as we can. Not a druids job. At this present time, I am wondering if it is even worth dishing out money and time for this game.

Angel said it very well when she said there aren't any words to say how she is feeling right now. I feel a combination of grief, disbelief, and dismay. EQ has been a family friend for so many years. I never really thought about leaving the game... but with healing as my true love in the gaming world, I find that I have been handed my pink slip as a healer today. I feel very much like someone who has just lost a job that I truly loved. It sounds sappy writing this (yes, yes, I know... "get a life, girl!" you may be thinking), but there you have it. This was what my family did together many evenings rather than just watching TV. I don't know if I want to level up my warden or remake a shammy when in six months SOE may slam those priests as well.

I am very glad that there are still viable healers in the game. My mystic friend is gloating today over being the best healer in our guild. While I never gloated as a templar, I know that she feels satisfied today for the first time since she started her mystic. As for your fury friend, Darthe, and your comments about druids... well, it's fine with me if druids and shammies heal just as well as we do. No problem, there. But did they have to improve them and nerf us? Why not just give them equal healing ability to ours, if that was the problem? AND give us some frigging utility, like druids and shammies have?

SOE took the fun out of the game for me today by totally nerfing a character I have invested many hours and a lot of fondness into.

Eliana

Suite · 09-14-2005, 03:43 AM

Selene1 wrote:
i was very worried in the beginning, but as i played today i found that:

i now solo better. I handle whites with no arrows far easier then before, low yellows as well.
In groups, i still heal pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good as well, and my power seems to last far far far longer then it used to
(not to mention that i kicked the [Removed for Content] of my 50 monk and 50 zerker friends while stilll having 80+% power left. The ranger totally handed me my behind on a silver platter though)

so all in all, my first impressions are quite good. What i have found however, is that now the arrows seem much more important then they did before. I do definitly not want to attack something with arrows up, even if its lower level. Whereas i can without to much trouble take yellows with nor arrows and even a lot easier if they have arrows down.

Selene, this is good news. Maybe I will feel better after playing a day or so. Thanks for the fresh air!

Eliana

Suite · 09-14-2005, 03:45 AM

Truffor wrote:
Just worried a bit, what is your avoidance? Mine is only 12.4%... bug?

templar 50 almost full ebon

Message Edited by Truffor on 09-13-2005 04:26 PM

My avoidance is now only 12.3% unbuffed. I am in full ebon from head to toe, with excellent jewelry etc.

No, I don't think it's a bug. They nerfed our armor too, a few days ago. It was all over the test server forums.

But, by God, at least they didn't take my PONY TAIL!!!!

Eliana

P.S. Unhappy templars, do the templar community a favor and start using that /feedback option EVERY TIME you find another nerf you hate.

Nindor2 · 09-14-2005, 03:51 AM

In Harclave (Difficult) i can pretty much solo the same mobs i could before. I end up at the same HP/Mana approximately, but it takes about twice as long. Spell DPS has been seriously cut, the HO does about a 3rd of the damage than before, if ended with the best nuke i have, less else. Spell stacking has been totally cut. Spell DPS is way down. Avoidance is non-existing. Mitigation is down. HP and Power have significantly gone up. We now have a big and inefficient direct heal. There is now group waterbreathing that doesn't have to be refreshed and gives a bis swimming boost. I have 2 more concentration slots left. Melee damage seems up, but its hard to judge in Harclave. So far i'm... unimpressed. If the target was to make the game more challenging, they failed. It got a lot more tedious and annoying, though. I might press on to 60, as i hate unfinished stuff, but if this is not tuned a bit, i will either seek another class or another game i guess.

Ravenmi · 09-14-2005, 03:53 AM

I'll tell you guys the same thing I'm telling the Wardens that are freeking our right now. Give it some time, you understand what a spell says it does but learning to use your spells effeciently takes time and a lot of adjusting. You have to unlearn everything and relearn all over again and its very rough and frustrating. Keep at it, you'll find things are as bad as they initially appear, tho you may still not be happy overall.

Just don't freak out and quit or loose it, give it a week and keep trying. Try changing things up on a regular basis until you find whats working well. If you still hate it after a few weeks, then go nuts by all means. SMILEY

Know I'm not a Templar, but Wardens aren't what they use to be at all anymore either. Templars and Wardens where the best, who was the best was debateable. Now we have to share that spotlight with everyone else and we're defiantely weaker overall then we use to be. I knew several very happy Templars on Beta tho that adjusted well to the changes and where still having fun, so maybe its not as grim as it appears right away.

Best of luck to you all, know this is a shock for everyone that wasn't in Beta.

Bhee · 09-14-2005, 03:55 AM

Well, the purpose of these changes is tio make levelling slower so that we don't hit level 60 anytime soon, thereby staying in the game longer and giving more money to SoE. SoE does not give a crap about our enjoyment. All they want is money. Anyway, it is too early for me to see if these changes will kill my enjoyment. If they do, I am gone. If not, I am here to stay. I will know in couple of weeks.

DartheDi · 09-14-2005, 04:23 AM

I just conducted an experiment of sorts. A level 35 fury and me, 39 temp both killed the same thing and both got totally different results. He killed a 35 blue rather fast (under 60 seconds) and came out with 57% mana left and 65% health healing himself only once. I killed the same mob and came out with 22% mana 35% health healing myself 1 time with restoration and 3 reactives. If this is SOEs version of balancing, they need to go back to school and learn the meaning. There is in no way a balance here.

Lumens · 09-14-2005, 04:49 AM

Just a waste of space in the game now. Worst healer & nothing else to offer. Account cancelled, think I have one more day to 'play' Got a Templar to level 50, early days. Had none of the group cures, no idea at the time. Rolled another to 46 ATM, have them all now, or did I shoild say. 96 Levels of playing a Templar destroyed

Bhee · 09-14-2005, 05:11 AM

Well, I want to like EQ2 (seriously). So, I hope that some day in near future these nerfs will be reversed. In the meantime I will try to play another character. This is not the end of world. In every MMORPG (EVERY), devs try to show their "brains" and balance a working class, only to make it useless. Then they will eat their foot and fix the class again. And the cycle continues. Hopefully, we will get fixes in 3-4 months time.

DartheDi · 09-14-2005, 05:48 AM

Well thats it, when I have to run from 3 green mobs 6 levels below me, its time to give it up. Thanks SOE for making me waste the last 4 weeks of my life as well as 160.00 for 2 accounts. This is total BS. Since when do druids out heal a CLERIC?? Do you guys even know what a cleric is?? Do you people in developement even know the differences between a cleric and a druid in fantasy RP? I dont care if druids or any other healing class can heal as well as I do, but when they can solo evens and yellows without a problem and I have to run from a couple of greenies, there is a huge problem. You took everything away from us and gave us absolutely NOTHING. We are useless. Thanks very much. If SOE cant balance characters any better then this, they need to take their heads out their patooties and give it to someone who actually knows what the heck they are doing. I have 2 weeks left of game time on my account. If things arent any better im canceling and will never ever buy another sony product again. /rant off Disgruntled Templar

Zathrys · 09-14-2005, 05:59 AM

SadMouse wrote:Well, the purpose of these changes is tio make levelling slower so that we don't hit level 60 anytime soon, thereby staying in the game longer and giving more money to SoE. SoE does not give a crap about our enjoyment. All they want is money. Anyway, it is too early for me to see if these changes will kill my enjoyment. If they do, I am gone. If not, I am here to stay. I will know in couple of weeks.

Umm, have you even tried an xp group? With a few guildies I got 25% in about 2 hours and that's at lvl 50. As for the templars, what can I say.....I played a broken class for almost a year before it was fixed...currently templars are better than defilers were. Don't look at your spell numbers, they don't mean diddly next to the pre patch numbers. My main ward dropped 600 points and my group ward dropped 1,000...but with the damage the mobs are doing now those huge heals aren't necessary. ALso keep in mind the spell quality means a lot more...if your are lvl 40+ with adept1 spells you need to get your stuff upgraded. You will also have to relearn how to play the class. It may not be fair but thems the breaks. I dropped from 3 dots to 2 and a 12 second debuff/nuke that does a whopping 150 dmg. My soloing takes considerably longer too. Keep your chin up, it will get better.

eirei · 09-14-2005, 06:44 AM

DartheDiva wrote:
Well thats it, when I have to run from 3 green mobs 6 levels below me, its time to give it up. Thanks SOE for making me waste the last 4 weeks of my life as well as 160.00 for 2 accounts. This is total BS.

Since when do druids out heal a CLERIC?? Do you guys even know what a cleric is?? Do you people in developement even know the differences between a cleric and a druid in fantasy RP? I dont care if druids or any other healing class can heal as well as I do, but when they can solo evens and yellows without a problem and I have to run from a couple of greenies, there is a huge problem. You took everything away from us and gave us absolutely NOTHING. We are useless. Thanks very much.

If SOE cant balance characters any better then this, they need to take their heads out their patooties and give it to someone who actually knows what the heck they are doing. I have 2 weeks left of game time on my account. If things arent any better im canceling and will never ever buy another sony product again.

/rant off

Disgruntled Templar

After spending some time looking over my spells and respeccing, I entered the Arena to see how bad things really were. I have played the Arena many times (have many piggies to prove it lol) so I figured it would be a good guage of where I stood now, at least solo.

I found I took the ones I got to fight over and over (server has gone down a few times now) went down faster and with less power usage. I was quite pleasantly surprised, especially after hearing others "horror stories" here. I am a little unclear on how this poster is unable to take a yellow now, was the yellow heroic? I fought an assortment of blues, whites and yellows, yellows came in a group of 3. Had a little trouble, but was a little distracted by my spell line-up, as it is slightly different than before.

Another poster stated we no longer have any group heals? I am also unclear this one, we have 2 still, they are just AE's now. In my way of thinking, this just means the groups need to stay a little tighter around the Templar. Am I missing something on this one?

Anyway, me personally, I will learn and adapt and continue to play the character I love, Good Hunting all no matter what you choose yourselves.

Whitemane · 09-14-2005, 07:15 AM

It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable. [ not that I would go raiding atm till the finish balancing those] The only complaints that I have with the changes are that I dont think shielding faith is all the useful so far ( maybe vs mage mobs ..) and 2 I miss all the group cures With the revamp there are 2 things that are VERY important. First upgrade your equipment and spells. Anything below Adept I ( aside from smites) should be upgraded ASAP. That Rollasian BP your still wearing .. replace it. Nightblood armour in 40's is just wrong. -- Gemma 50 Templar Legion Najena

SnowKnight · 09-14-2005, 07:31 AM

I play a lvl 48 templar, and I am quite happy with the changes. Just need to work on that recast timer for sign of weakness line.

Notrevice · 09-14-2005, 08:53 AM

Know what! I love my templar...i did raids every night and whole ka BANG...i still love him

/tell eq2.Antonia_Bayle.Forgivin

Ciao

Message Edited by Notrevice on 09-13-2005 10:06 PM

Suite · 09-14-2005, 09:38 AM

Whitemane wrote:
It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable.

Gemma, I'm in ebon armor with Adept 3 to Master 1 spells for all my heals and reactives; tonight I was in an excellent group of experienced guild players, with a 50 guardian, 50 zerker, 50 wizard, 50 swashy, and two 50 templars. All the plate wearers were in ebon and have excellent weapons and equipment. We wiped three times fighting level 52 heroic. Yes, that's right, three times.

We got mad and came back and finally beat it (was a named), but yesterday we could have taken that mob with one templar, no problem, or one mystic. I have talked to many other healers tonight by doing a /who for all the 50 priests on my server and talking to about half from each type of class. Most have said they hate what they got; less healing for more power. Most were so stressed from their groups dying that they were not having fun.

I am an excellent healer so I can't even imagine what I was doing wrong. I am using all my heals and tricks. True, it did get better by the end of the night, but this is the first expansion in EQ I can remember where I had NO fun at all the first day. I am glad that you're doing so great, and maybe I am learning disabled (tho I don't think so)... I just don't see how you were killing 57^^^ as easily as you say you were. The ones we were fighting were not hitting for 200, either.

:smileysad:

Suite / Eliana

Ashenshug · 09-14-2005, 09:42 AM

Well, here's my take from a lowly level 26 Templar....

This evening, my wife and I went to start on our AQ3 quests in Stormhold. I'm 26, she's a 24 Conjurer. We fight our first Defiled Knight, green con'd 20 Heroic mob.

We died.

Her pet got the crap stomped out of it, and I couldn't keep up the healing. Now, I may only be level 26, but, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that she couldn't take the hits, her pet couldn't take the hits, and I couldn't keep the healing up. Before, we'd be able to take 3 of the same mob on with little trouble. Now, we are running from 1 mob that's 6 levels lower than me.

Something stinks, and it's not my armpits. Sadly, after singing praises to SOE the past few weeks of getting the game, I'm back in the same boat I was in when I played WoW.

The "Unhappy" boat.

Oh yea, one last thing....

Why on earth are level 17 mobs conning green to me at 26?

Message Edited by Ashenshuger on 09-13-2005 10:43 PM

Whitemane · 09-14-2005, 10:10 AM

Suite wrote:

Whitemane wrote:
It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable.

Gemma, I'm in ebon armor with Adept 3 to Master 1 spells for all my heals and reactives; tonight I was in an excellent group of experienced guild players, with a 50 guardian, 50 zerker, 50 wizard, 50 swashy, and two 50 templars. All the plate wearers were in ebon and have excellent weapons and equipment. We wiped three times fighting level 52 heroic. Yes, that's right, three times.

We got mad and came back and finally beat it (was a named), but yesterday we could have taken that mob with one templar, no problem, or one mystic. I have talked to many other healers tonight by doing a /who for all the 50 priests on my server and talking to about half from each type of class. Most have said they hate what they got; less healing for more power. Most were so stressed from their groups dying that they were not having fun.

I am an excellent healer so I can't even imagine what I was doing wrong. I am using all my heals and tricks. True, it did get better by the end of the night, but this is the first expansion in EQ I can remember where I had NO fun at all the first day. I am glad that you're doing so great, and maybe I am learning disabled (tho I don't think so)... I just don't see how you were killing 57^^^ as easily as you say you were. The ones we were fighting were not hitting for 200, either.

:smileysad:

Suite / Eliana

Hi there:

Named I have discovered pretty much mandate your Tank use his defensive stances otherwise ... ewww not nice. Seriously though I had no problems at all tonight with the following group : myself , 50 mystic, 50 Gaurdain, 50 swashy and 50 wizard all fully ebon slightly Fabled all adept III's / Masters. We only lost the wizzie once in to a named in the Clef instance ( barrage insta dead). The 57 ^^^ were no problem, the 54 ^^^ named in there though put a serious beating on the tank and we likely would have wiped if he hadn't switched to defensive stance. I can post screenies if you want of the 57's ^^^^. The other named were not nearly as rough. Perhaps he was using defensive stance on each of them. You can take a look at my eq2players profile for my gear its not all the fabulous at all ( did get an upgrade to my cedar dinner plate finally tonight yay!). The mystic and I did take turns with some of the 57 ^^ ( or are they ^^^) giants in pillar of flames to see how we did and we didnt loose anyone at all.

The game is now harder without a doubt but not near as hard I think as most people are making it out to be. It feels about as rough as keeping a monk up in old live =D So far keeping the group alive seems very doable but not as easy as it was. All in all Im satisified with the feel of it so far. This could change though as we move through the content but from about 5 hours of testing it seems about right. Raiding I think is likely another story ... My only real complaint is with the group cures and Sheilding Faith. Jury is still out on Shielding faith for me. At first I was really unhappy, I sorta see how it maybe useful ...

Perhaps its the addition of the mystic in my group that made my job much easier. I really have to test more before I can say for sure.

The major change for me is not being able to prep the tank. Ive found myself using single target heals alot more. Basically my casting cycle on a pull is now: rebuke / MoK / Atoning Fate / Heal tank as needed / Involuntary / stun adds pacify roamers / .

Along that vien Ive found the extra conc useful to drop more GoC's / Scared Redoubts around the group handy.

-- Gemma 50 Templar Legion

Message Edited by Whitemane on 09-13-2005 11:22 PM

Message Edited by Whitemane on 09-13-2005 11:23 PM

Xerxess · 09-14-2005, 10:11 AM

Well the reason why our avoidance is so low is due to the Armor Class we are wearing. If you wear Heavy plate then avoidance will be lower then someone that wears Leather armor because lets face it, plate is harder to move around in then Leather it.

Am I pisst about some of these changes, oh yeah. I mean they nerfed our reactive heals to almost nothing, our shielding faith totally sux, and debuffs are pretty lame. I got killed by greens and blues today. Also I found out if you rez someone near an aggro mob it aggros on you and run straight for you. Soothe spells are a joke, I don't even understand why they gave those to us and plus Glory of Combat now takes a Con. spot.

Though now with all these nerfs I found new ways to adapt. I use to throw Crucial Intercession on the group before we pulled and it kept them healed for the first hits and then kept using reactive heals to keep them alive. Well now we can't do that anymore. Now I use Crucial Intercession after they pull, then pray the tank holds aggro and use Greater Intercession with a few Greater Restoration thrown in. Yes we got nerf'd but we are still valuable to the group, we are not valuable in new ways. We no longer can just reactive heal anymore, we have to use Direct heals more often. Yes it sux but it seems we are being pushed to the way of an EQLive cleric.

Do these changes, Yes I think they do...but will I live with them, most likely. Today I paired up with a ranger, we had a rough time duo'ing...hps and AC suck but OMG they have awesome DPS. Anyway we were duo'ing and it took me a while to adapt, after a few deaths I figured out what I was doing wrong and decided to switch it up and am now healing just as good as before. I might be taking up a lil more power doing it but I can still keep a group alive.

Stick it out for a few more weeks, they are gonna revamp some more classes after this patch.

PS on another note, I just can't believe all the crying furies and wardens are doing. I thought they got the better in the stick IMO....guess you can't make everyone happy =P

Lillyspring

49 Templar of Mistmoore

Order Of The Rose

09-13-2005, 11:57 PM	#1
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	I play EQ2 with most of my household for a total of seven accounts. We played EQ1 for almost six years, and I have played a troubador (bard) and a cleric or templar in both EQ1 and EQ2 (as well as in every other MMORPG I've played). I normally welcome well thought-out changes and had no reason to doubt that SOE would take care of the templar community when they made their combat changes or launched the DoF expansion. I was never unhappy with what they did to us in EQ1 and so I figured this would be good for us, too. Today I logged on and started looking at my templar spells. I play a lvl 50 templar on the Blackburrow server. The bread-and-butter of my healing line is Crucial Intercession. YESTERDAY, my Adept III Crucial Intercession provided a 477 heal and a +212 mitigation against crushing and piercing damage, and cast Intercession upon termination if the healing power wasn't used up. TODAY, my Adept III Crucial Intercession provides only a 207-253 heal. Period. If I use it as my Master II upgrade, it will provide only a 244-299 heal. I played EQ2 beta and play on the test server also. I thought I was prepared for these changes, but seeing this terrible nerf made me sick to my stomach. I've logged out of the game and will think about returning later... but in the meantime, I'd like to hear from other templars about your first reaction to what SOE has done to the templar now? I'm especially interested in hearing from other lvl 50+ templars who come from raiding guilds, or those who have played healers for many years in MMORPGs. Maybe I'm over-reacting and maybe I'm missing something. Please, I'm not looking to flame anyone or to be flamed... but until today I really loved this game and my templar. Now I am just discouraged. In /ooc people were shouting about what bad things had been done to their classes, while some of the mages and other priests were gloating. This just doesn't seem right... so give me a better perspective. Surely I'll have one after I go back and compare what's changes spell by spell, right? .... right? Suite / Eliana __________________

09-14-2005, 12:05 AM	#2
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	Granted I haven't logged in yet or even starting patching but these changes were long in coming. I mean if you played test then you had to be aware of the shift they were making from the reactives to the single heals. I can't say you are wrong to be upset or hurt. I can just look at the positive. The rare harvest drop rate is increasing so Adept III's should be getting cheaper. Just find the spell you need. __________________

09-14-2005, 12:18 AM	#3
rtoub Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	I wouldn't base your opinion on the amount your best heal does. The combat changes were game wide and included NPC mobs. Give it a while to adjust to the changes and see if you can still heal a group and keep them alive or not. That is the true test and not the amount because the amount of damage mobs do has changed as well. __________________

09-14-2005, 01:16 AM	#5
Bookbunny Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	Lots of the numeric values of our spells has changed. What we need to remember as we try things out is that the numeric value of AC, Mitigation and DPS has changed as well. Hopefully we will find that our lesser heals are more than sufficient to heal the lesser damage being done to our tanks. (Speculation and hope, don't flame me) As I reorganized my spellbook I was relieved to see that most things are staying the same as far as what they do. My biggest disappointment was when I realized our single target Vitaes are all on the same recast timer, so no spamming to vitaes one after another. Any idea how to properly make use of the revised Sign line - Sign of Weakness on up. It is now a pacify. What exactly is that?!? __________________

09-14-2005, 01:41 AM	#6
Anark Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2	I agree you totally and I'm sure the 98 % of the Templars will do also. Soe one more time crashed the game like they did in Luclin,LoY,PoP,GoD,bla bla bla.....Verant please come on back!! There are yet thousands of people loving the manners you used to do. I'm playing a Lvl 50 Templar In CrushBone Server and I had exactly the same sensations as you....I know Templars used to be the best healers before the big nerf from far but now....pff now we're just scum. Worst changes we got.... Crucial Intercession ( It used to heal 477 and +212 to the mitigations x9 and tank got any of the agro derived from the Reactive Heal ) Now it heals 244-299 with no mitigation and grats you wining all the agro. Resolve ( Great Spell Used to Absorb 3 next attacks totally ) Now it dispels 75 Counters of Magic,Mental,Piercing bla bla bla ( Less Heat or Cold anything pff... ) Sign of Infirmity ( I've it in Master I and used to debuff 33 str AE ) Now it just pacifies for 12 seconds with a recast of 20 So you can't pacify your way down to no where,concluding it will never work as good as Harmony did in Everquest 1. Shielding Faith ( Used to give a great power pool +- 300¿? ) Now it just give AE resists and a war of 873 hps that lasts 36 seconds but only useful to magic,mental and divines....concluding,just another useless spell. Any AE Cure Trait We're templars but we don't have anymore an AE cure. Rest of Heals Rest of Heals are closely exactly like before,some of em heal more but they also cost more power.Recast Time is now bigger in direct ones,and in the Single Target Reactive one. By the way now any reactive stands max for 30 seconds when they used to do for 45. At the other hand SoE awarded us overpowering the spell Praetorate that nows don't use any concentration slot and it lasts till you decide cancel it....Enjoy !! Others priests are all better than they were before....wardens got root now,all heal spells are better,regen from all Healing over Time line stacks now...nukes,resists buffs,sow....furys got nukes over 1k ,yet have their heals,AE Cures,....bla bla bla. Grats Soe on the sad update,I hope at least the 70 % of people understand it like a we've the servers overcrowdeds,enjoy your playing in D&L ( For exemple ) but not here. Edited with more thingys I'm turning crazy. Message Edited by Anarkia on 09-13-2005 02:51 PM __________________ ____________ LvL 50 Templar Crushbone Server ( Well not a templar anymore,just scum now,thanks Soe on making people feel useless after 8 months of playing )

09-14-2005, 12:55 AM	#4
Topi Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 8	If npcs are scaled down i must suck something fierce. I just went into Harclaves and the very first gnoll killed me after a fight that lasted over 5 minutes. i reviewed my new spells and understand what they do. The thing kicked my butt. Im level 42 templar and i did everything i could just to stay alive . and those little cutsey new pacify spells dont make up for the fact that our reactives are garbage now. I did bot even get the thing to half health before it killed me. this was the first first gnoll you encounter in harclaves. Solo intanced zone.

09-14-2005, 01:56 AM	#7
Angelece21 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	there aren't any words to say how i feel right now, its along the lines of [Removed for Content], but its not quite that. I also went into Harclave, which used to be decent for me, i could take out mobs in less then a minute, have half life and half power still. Go to kill the first mob, got me down to 0 mana and about 20% life before i finally killed it. got the next two mobs, and then died trying to make the jump.. but ok, that was my fault and i was doing decently, didnt die before that so i wasnt quite mad yet. decided to group with a guildy. then i started to get angry, i cant heal him worth crap, all my spells being on the same timer makes it so i cant cast decently. I can understand some of the vitaes being on the same timer, makes it so you cant chaint hose, but every single one of the other heals except for my one restoration, thats pretty harsh. I feel pretty much useless now..

09-14-2005, 03:01 AM	#8
DartheDi Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 8	Suite, I have to agree with you. Although I am not a level 50 Temp, only level 39, I have spent the last 4 weeks xp grinding obviously for no reason. I have remained optimistic about the changes even though they didnt sound too appealing. Logging in today and going to EL only to find grey mobs were no longer grey but green was rather shocking. Then trying to solo a 35 blue con and practically having my butt handed to me is not a very good start. I could barely keep myself alive. The encounter ended with me at 20% health and 10% mana. With my heals and vitaes on the same timer, it makes it very difficult to heal effectivly. Throwing in there 6 interuptions and 2 fizzles, its a wonder I even made it our alive. I was grouped with a fury also, he had absolutely no problems keeping the grop alive. Me on the hand, I struggled. This is not the role of a Templar. Templars/Clerics are healers and have/will always be healers. It is our job to keep the group alive as effectivly as we can. Not a druids job. At this present time, I am wondering if it is even worth dishing out money and time for this game.

09-14-2005, 03:23 AM	#9
Selene1 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 74	i was very worried in the beginning, but as i played today i found that: i now solo better. I handle whites with no arrows far easier then before, low yellows as well. In groups, i still heal pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good as well, and my power seems to last far far far longer then it used to (not to mention that i kicked the [Removed for Content] of my 50 monk and 50 zerker friends while stilll having 80+% power left. The ranger totally handed me my behind on a silver platter though) so all in all, my first impressions are quite good. What i have found however, is that now the arrows seem much more important then they did before. I do definitly not want to attack something with arrows up, even if its lower level. Whereas i can without to much trouble take yellows with nor arrows and even a lot easier if they have arrows down. __________________

09-14-2005, 03:25 AM	#10
Truffor Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 115	Just worried a bit, what is your avoidance? Mine is only 12.4%... bug? templar 50 almost full ebon Message Edited by Truffor on 09-13-2005 04:26 PM

09-14-2005, 03:32 AM	#11
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Topika wrote: If npcs are scaled down i must suck something fierce. I just went into Harclaves and the very first gnoll killed me after a fight that lasted over 5 minutes. i reviewed my new spells and understand what they do. The thing kicked my butt. Im level 42 templar and i did everything i could just to stay alive . and those little cutsey new pacify spells dont make up for the fact that our reactives are garbage now. I did bot even get the thing to half health before it killed me. this was the first first gnoll you encounter in harclaves. Solo intanced zone. This is what I'm experiencing and hearing, also. I'm glad I play several classes and that other classes are happy... but my templar was my main and this is far worse than I had imagined for the high end of the game. To answer the first two people... you make good points. I'll take this philosophically and see how it goes this week. Yes, I saw changes on test that weren't too overwhelming, but that's because I don't play a toon lvl 40-50 on test, probably. Had I experienced this a month or so ago, I would have hung up my templar and leveled a class that is happy today--like my swashy or maybe warden or guardian. I wonder if SOE was just trying to get all the templars to ditch their templars and level up alts... to keep them in the game through some evil ruse like that? :smileywink: Eliana __________________

09-14-2005, 03:42 AM	#12
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Angelece21 wrote: there aren't any words to say how i feel right now, its along the lines of [Removed for Content], but its not quite that. [...] decided to group with a guildy. then i started to get angry, i cant heal him worth crap, all my spells being on the same timer makes it so i cant cast decently. I can understand some of the vitaes being on the same timer, makes it so you cant chaint hose, but every single one of the other heals except for my one restoration, thats pretty harsh. I feel pretty much useless now.. DartheDiva wrote: Suite, I have to agree with you. Although I am not a level 50 Temp, only level 39, I have spent the last 4 weeks xp grinding obviously for no reason. I have remained optimistic about the changes even though they didnt sound too appealing. [...] With my heals and vitaes on the same timer, it makes it very difficult to heal effectivly. Throwing in there 6 interuptions and 2 fizzles, its a wonder I even made it our alive. I was grouped with a fury also, he had absolutely no problems keeping the grop alive. Me on the hand, I struggled. This is not the role of a Templar. Templars/Clerics are healers and have/will always be healers. It is our job to keep the group alive as effectivly as we can. Not a druids job. At this present time, I am wondering if it is even worth dishing out money and time for this game. Angel said it very well when she said there aren't any words to say how she is feeling right now. I feel a combination of grief, disbelief, and dismay. EQ has been a family friend for so many years. I never really thought about leaving the game... but with healing as my true love in the gaming world, I find that I have been handed my pink slip as a healer today. I feel very much like someone who has just lost a job that I truly loved. It sounds sappy writing this (yes, yes, I know... "get a life, girl!" you may be thinking), but there you have it. This was what my family did together many evenings rather than just watching TV. I don't know if I want to level up my warden or remake a shammy when in six months SOE may slam those priests as well. I am very glad that there are still viable healers in the game. My mystic friend is gloating today over being the best healer in our guild. While I never gloated as a templar, I know that she feels satisfied today for the first time since she started her mystic. As for your fury friend, Darthe, and your comments about druids... well, it's fine with me if druids and shammies heal just as well as we do. No problem, there. But did they have to improve them and nerf us? Why not just give them equal healing ability to ours, if that was the problem? AND give us some frigging utility, like druids and shammies have? SOE took the fun out of the game for me today by totally nerfing a character I have invested many hours and a lot of fondness into. Eliana __________________

09-14-2005, 03:43 AM	#13
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Selene1 wrote: i was very worried in the beginning, but as i played today i found that: i now solo better. I handle whites with no arrows far easier then before, low yellows as well. In groups, i still heal pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good as well, and my power seems to last far far far longer then it used to (not to mention that i kicked the [Removed for Content] of my 50 monk and 50 zerker friends while stilll having 80+% power left. The ranger totally handed me my behind on a silver platter though) so all in all, my first impressions are quite good. What i have found however, is that now the arrows seem much more important then they did before. I do definitly not want to attack something with arrows up, even if its lower level. Whereas i can without to much trouble take yellows with nor arrows and even a lot easier if they have arrows down. Selene, this is good news. Maybe I will feel better after playing a day or so. Thanks for the fresh air! Eliana __________________

09-14-2005, 03:45 AM	#14
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Truffor wrote: Just worried a bit, what is your avoidance? Mine is only 12.4%... bug? templar 50 almost full ebon Message Edited by Truffor on 09-13-2005 04:26 PM My avoidance is now only 12.3% unbuffed. I am in full ebon from head to toe, with excellent jewelry etc. No, I don't think it's a bug. They nerfed our armor too, a few days ago. It was all over the test server forums. But, by God, at least they didn't take my PONY TAIL!!!! Eliana P.S. Unhappy templars, do the templar community a favor and start using that /feedback option EVERY TIME you find another nerf you hate. __________________

09-14-2005, 03:51 AM	#15
Nindor2 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 41	In Harclave (Difficult) i can pretty much solo the same mobs i could before. I end up at the same HP/Mana approximately, but it takes about twice as long. Spell DPS has been seriously cut, the HO does about a 3rd of the damage than before, if ended with the best nuke i have, less else. Spell stacking has been totally cut. Spell DPS is way down. Avoidance is non-existing. Mitigation is down. HP and Power have significantly gone up. We now have a big and inefficient direct heal. There is now group waterbreathing that doesn't have to be refreshed and gives a bis swimming boost. I have 2 more concentration slots left. Melee damage seems up, but its hard to judge in Harclave. So far i'm... unimpressed. If the target was to make the game more challenging, they failed. It got a lot more tedious and annoying, though. I might press on to 60, as i hate unfinished stuff, but if this is not tuned a bit, i will either seek another class or another game i guess.

09-14-2005, 03:53 AM	#16
Ravenmi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 402	I'll tell you guys the same thing I'm telling the Wardens that are freeking our right now. Give it some time, you understand what a spell says it does but learning to use your spells effeciently takes time and a lot of adjusting. You have to unlearn everything and relearn all over again and its very rough and frustrating. Keep at it, you'll find things are as bad as they initially appear, tho you may still not be happy overall. Just don't freak out and quit or loose it, give it a week and keep trying. Try changing things up on a regular basis until you find whats working well. If you still hate it after a few weeks, then go nuts by all means. Know I'm not a Templar, but Wardens aren't what they use to be at all anymore either. Templars and Wardens where the best, who was the best was debateable. Now we have to share that spotlight with everyone else and we're defiantely weaker overall then we use to be. I knew several very happy Templars on Beta tho that adjusted well to the changes and where still having fun, so maybe its not as grim as it appears right away. Best of luck to you all, know this is a shock for everyone that wasn't in Beta.

09-14-2005, 03:55 AM	#17
Bhee General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 76	Well, the purpose of these changes is tio make levelling slower so that we don't hit level 60 anytime soon, thereby staying in the game longer and giving more money to SoE. SoE does not give a crap about our enjoyment. All they want is money. Anyway, it is too early for me to see if these changes will kill my enjoyment. If they do, I am gone. If not, I am here to stay. I will know in couple of weeks. __________________

09-14-2005, 04:23 AM	#18
DartheDi Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 8	I just conducted an experiment of sorts. A level 35 fury and me, 39 temp both killed the same thing and both got totally different results. He killed a 35 blue rather fast (under 60 seconds) and came out with 57% mana left and 65% health healing himself only once. I killed the same mob and came out with 22% mana 35% health healing myself 1 time with restoration and 3 reactives. If this is SOEs version of balancing, they need to go back to school and learn the meaning. There is in no way a balance here.

09-14-2005, 04:49 AM	#19
Lumens Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Just a waste of space in the game now. Worst healer & nothing else to offer. Account cancelled, think I have one more day to 'play' Got a Templar to level 50, early days. Had none of the group cures, no idea at the time. Rolled another to 46 ATM, have them all now, or did I shoild say. 96 Levels of playing a Templar destroyed

09-14-2005, 05:11 AM	#20
Bhee General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 76	Well, I want to like EQ2 (seriously). So, I hope that some day in near future these nerfs will be reversed. In the meantime I will try to play another character. This is not the end of world. In every MMORPG (EVERY), devs try to show their "brains" and balance a working class, only to make it useless. Then they will eat their foot and fix the class again. And the cycle continues. Hopefully, we will get fixes in 3-4 months time. __________________

09-14-2005, 05:48 AM	#21
DartheDi Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 8	Well thats it, when I have to run from 3 green mobs 6 levels below me, its time to give it up. Thanks SOE for making me waste the last 4 weeks of my life as well as 160.00 for 2 accounts. This is total BS. Since when do druids out heal a CLERIC?? Do you guys even know what a cleric is?? Do you people in developement even know the differences between a cleric and a druid in fantasy RP? I dont care if druids or any other healing class can heal as well as I do, but when they can solo evens and yellows without a problem and I have to run from a couple of greenies, there is a huge problem. You took everything away from us and gave us absolutely NOTHING. We are useless. Thanks very much. If SOE cant balance characters any better then this, they need to take their heads out their patooties and give it to someone who actually knows what the heck they are doing. I have 2 weeks left of game time on my account. If things arent any better im canceling and will never ever buy another sony product again. /rant off Disgruntled Templar

09-14-2005, 05:59 AM	#22
Zathrys Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 71	SadMouse wrote:Well, the purpose of these changes is tio make levelling slower so that we don't hit level 60 anytime soon, thereby staying in the game longer and giving more money to SoE. SoE does not give a crap about our enjoyment. All they want is money. Anyway, it is too early for me to see if these changes will kill my enjoyment. If they do, I am gone. If not, I am here to stay. I will know in couple of weeks. Umm, have you even tried an xp group? With a few guildies I got 25% in about 2 hours and that's at lvl 50. As for the templars, what can I say.....I played a broken class for almost a year before it was fixed...currently templars are better than defilers were. Don't look at your spell numbers, they don't mean diddly next to the pre patch numbers. My main ward dropped 600 points and my group ward dropped 1,000...but with the damage the mobs are doing now those huge heals aren't necessary. ALso keep in mind the spell quality means a lot more...if your are lvl 40+ with adept1 spells you need to get your stuff upgraded. You will also have to relearn how to play the class. It may not be fair but thems the breaks. I dropped from 3 dots to 2 and a 12 second debuff/nuke that does a whopping 150 dmg. My soloing takes considerably longer too. Keep your chin up, it will get better.

09-14-2005, 06:44 AM	#23
eirei Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	DartheDiva wrote: Well thats it, when I have to run from 3 green mobs 6 levels below me, its time to give it up. Thanks SOE for making me waste the last 4 weeks of my life as well as 160.00 for 2 accounts. This is total BS. Since when do druids out heal a CLERIC?? Do you guys even know what a cleric is?? Do you people in developement even know the differences between a cleric and a druid in fantasy RP? I dont care if druids or any other healing class can heal as well as I do, but when they can solo evens and yellows without a problem and I have to run from a couple of greenies, there is a huge problem. You took everything away from us and gave us absolutely NOTHING. We are useless. Thanks very much. If SOE cant balance characters any better then this, they need to take their heads out their patooties and give it to someone who actually knows what the heck they are doing. I have 2 weeks left of game time on my account. If things arent any better im canceling and will never ever buy another sony product again. /rant off Disgruntled Templar After spending some time looking over my spells and respeccing, I entered the Arena to see how bad things really were. I have played the Arena many times (have many piggies to prove it lol) so I figured it would be a good guage of where I stood now, at least solo. I found I took the ones I got to fight over and over (server has gone down a few times now) went down faster and with less power usage. I was quite pleasantly surprised, especially after hearing others "horror stories" here. I am a little unclear on how this poster is unable to take a yellow now, was the yellow heroic? I fought an assortment of blues, whites and yellows, yellows came in a group of 3. Had a little trouble, but was a little distracted by my spell line-up, as it is slightly different than before. Another poster stated we no longer have any group heals? I am also unclear this one, we have 2 still, they are just AE's now. In my way of thinking, this just means the groups need to stay a little tighter around the Templar. Am I missing something on this one? Anyway, me personally, I will learn and adapt and continue to play the character I love, Good Hunting all no matter what you choose yourselves.

09-14-2005, 07:15 AM	#24
Whitemane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 195	It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable. [ not that I would go raiding atm till the finish balancing those] The only complaints that I have with the changes are that I dont think shielding faith is all the useful so far ( maybe vs mage mobs ..) and 2 I miss all the group cures With the revamp there are 2 things that are VERY important. First upgrade your equipment and spells. Anything below Adept I ( aside from smites) should be upgraded ASAP. That Rollasian BP your still wearing .. replace it. Nightblood armour in 40's is just wrong. -- Gemma 50 Templar Legion Najena

09-14-2005, 07:31 AM	#25
SnowKnight Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 212	I play a lvl 48 templar, and I am quite happy with the changes. Just need to work on that recast timer for sign of weakness line.

09-14-2005, 08:53 AM	#26
Notrevice Newbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Know what! I love my templar...i did raids every night and whole ka BANG...i still love him /tell eq2.Antonia_Bayle.Forgivin Ciao Message Edited by Notrevice on 09-13-2005 10:06 PM __________________

09-14-2005, 09:38 AM	#27
Suite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 198	Whitemane wrote: It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable. Gemma, I'm in ebon armor with Adept 3 to Master 1 spells for all my heals and reactives; tonight I was in an excellent group of experienced guild players, with a 50 guardian, 50 zerker, 50 wizard, 50 swashy, and two 50 templars. All the plate wearers were in ebon and have excellent weapons and equipment. We wiped three times fighting level 52 heroic. Yes, that's right, three times. We got mad and came back and finally beat it (was a named), but yesterday we could have taken that mob with one templar, no problem, or one mystic. I have talked to many other healers tonight by doing a /who for all the 50 priests on my server and talking to about half from each type of class. Most have said they hate what they got; less healing for more power. Most were so stressed from their groups dying that they were not having fun. I am an excellent healer so I can't even imagine what I was doing wrong. I am using all my heals and tricks. True, it did get better by the end of the night, but this is the first expansion in EQ I can remember where I had NO fun at all the first day. I am glad that you're doing so great, and maybe I am learning disabled (tho I don't think so)... I just don't see how you were killing 57^^^ as easily as you say you were. The ones we were fighting were not hitting for 200, either. :smileysad: Suite / Eliana __________________

09-14-2005, 09:42 AM	#28
Ashenshug Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 17	Well, here's my take from a lowly level 26 Templar.... This evening, my wife and I went to start on our AQ3 quests in Stormhold. I'm 26, she's a 24 Conjurer. We fight our first Defiled Knight, green con'd 20 Heroic mob. We died. Her pet got the crap stomped out of it, and I couldn't keep up the healing. Now, I may only be level 26, but, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that she couldn't take the hits, her pet couldn't take the hits, and I couldn't keep the healing up. Before, we'd be able to take 3 of the same mob on with little trouble. Now, we are running from 1 mob that's 6 levels lower than me. Something stinks, and it's not my armpits. Sadly, after singing praises to SOE the past few weeks of getting the game, I'm back in the same boat I was in when I played WoW. The "Unhappy" boat. Oh yea, one last thing.... Why on earth are level 17 mobs conning green to me at 26? Message Edited by Ashenshuger on 09-13-2005 10:43 PM

09-14-2005, 10:10 AM	#29
Whitemane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 195	Suite wrote: Whitemane wrote: It isnt Nearly as bad as it seems. Dont look at the numbers but rather how you can keep your tank up. Im now at 50% into level 50 and I am having no issues at all keeping my group alive. Up to and including multiple level 57 Triple ups. There is no use looking at your heals and going OMG Ive been nerfed. EVERYTHING has been slid down the scales this includes NPC's rather than smacking your MT for 1k a shot they are hiting for 200 a shot very managable. Gemma, I'm in ebon armor with Adept 3 to Master 1 spells for all my heals and reactives; tonight I was in an excellent group of experienced guild players, with a 50 guardian, 50 zerker, 50 wizard, 50 swashy, and two 50 templars. All the plate wearers were in ebon and have excellent weapons and equipment. We wiped three times fighting level 52 heroic. Yes, that's right, three times. We got mad and came back and finally beat it (was a named), but yesterday we could have taken that mob with one templar, no problem, or one mystic. I have talked to many other healers tonight by doing a /who for all the 50 priests on my server and talking to about half from each type of class. Most have said they hate what they got; less healing for more power. Most were so stressed from their groups dying that they were not having fun. I am an excellent healer so I can't even imagine what I was doing wrong. I am using all my heals and tricks. True, it did get better by the end of the night, but this is the first expansion in EQ I can remember where I had NO fun at all the first day. I am glad that you're doing so great, and maybe I am learning disabled (tho I don't think so)... I just don't see how you were killing 57^^^ as easily as you say you were. The ones we were fighting were not hitting for 200, either. :smileysad: Suite / Eliana Hi there: Named I have discovered pretty much mandate your Tank use his defensive stances otherwise ... ewww not nice. Seriously though I had no problems at all tonight with the following group : myself , 50 mystic, 50 Gaurdain, 50 swashy and 50 wizard all fully ebon slightly Fabled all adept III's / Masters. We only lost the wizzie once in to a named in the Clef instance ( barrage insta dead). The 57 ^^^ were no problem, the 54 ^^^ named in there though put a serious beating on the tank and we likely would have wiped if he hadn't switched to defensive stance. I can post screenies if you want of the 57's ^^^^. The other named were not nearly as rough. Perhaps he was using defensive stance on each of them. You can take a look at my eq2players profile for my gear its not all the fabulous at all ( did get an upgrade to my cedar dinner plate finally tonight yay!). The mystic and I did take turns with some of the 57 ^^ ( or are they ^^^) giants in pillar of flames to see how we did and we didnt loose anyone at all. The game is now harder without a doubt but not near as hard I think as most people are making it out to be. It feels about as rough as keeping a monk up in old live =D So far keeping the group alive seems very doable but not as easy as it was. All in all Im satisified with the feel of it so far. This could change though as we move through the content but from about 5 hours of testing it seems about right. Raiding I think is likely another story ... My only real complaint is with the group cures and Sheilding Faith. Jury is still out on Shielding faith for me. At first I was really unhappy, I sorta see how it maybe useful ... Perhaps its the addition of the mystic in my group that made my job much easier. I really have to test more before I can say for sure. The major change for me is not being able to prep the tank. Ive found myself using single target heals alot more. Basically my casting cycle on a pull is now: rebuke / MoK / Atoning Fate / Heal tank as needed / Involuntary / stun adds pacify roamers / . Along that vien Ive found the extra conc useful to drop more GoC's / Scared Redoubts around the group handy. -- Gemma 50 Templar Legion Message Edited by Whitemane on 09-13-2005 11:22 PM Message Edited by Whitemane on 09-13-2005 11:23 PM

09-14-2005, 10:11 AM	#30
Xerxess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 168	Well the reason why our avoidance is so low is due to the Armor Class we are wearing. If you wear Heavy plate then avoidance will be lower then someone that wears Leather armor because lets face it, plate is harder to move around in then Leather it. Am I pisst about some of these changes, oh yeah. I mean they nerfed our reactive heals to almost nothing, our shielding faith totally sux, and debuffs are pretty lame. I got killed by greens and blues today. Also I found out if you rez someone near an aggro mob it aggros on you and run straight for you. Soothe spells are a joke, I don't even understand why they gave those to us and plus Glory of Combat now takes a Con. spot. Though now with all these nerfs I found new ways to adapt. I use to throw Crucial Intercession on the group before we pulled and it kept them healed for the first hits and then kept using reactive heals to keep them alive. Well now we can't do that anymore. Now I use Crucial Intercession after they pull, then pray the tank holds aggro and use Greater Intercession with a few Greater Restoration thrown in. Yes we got nerf'd but we are still valuable to the group, we are not valuable in new ways. We no longer can just reactive heal anymore, we have to use Direct heals more often. Yes it sux but it seems we are being pushed to the way of an EQLive cleric. Do these changes, Yes I think they do...but will I live with them, most likely. Today I paired up with a ranger, we had a rough time duo'ing...hps and AC suck but OMG they have awesome DPS. Anyway we were duo'ing and it took me a while to adapt, after a few deaths I figured out what I was doing wrong and decided to switch it up and am now healing just as good as before. I might be taking up a lil more power doing it but I can still keep a group alive. Stick it out for a few more weeks, they are gonna revamp some more classes after this patch. PS on another note, I just can't believe all the crying furies and wardens are doing. I thought they got the better in the stick IMO....guess you can't make everyone happy =P Lillyspring 49 Templar of Mistmoore Order Of The Rose __________________ Pepi Necessary Evil 80 Swashy Max of 400 DPS!!