Top 3 broken spells of Templar: feedback please...

[Xran]

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If you have a high level character, please let me know what your top 3 most broken spells and/or combat arts are. This would include spells that are not functioning as intended, not spells that you feel are too weak or don't meet your expectations (that feedback is desirable as well, but I'm just looking to make a list of the most broken spells/arts from each class).

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Directly from BG ... I figured I would ask you guys for a better collective feedback.This is what Kendricke has submitted to BG for us:

Prostrate.  I've often wondered what's the point of having a high level stun that takes forever to cast, uses a significant amount of power, only lasts 3 seconds (when it actually hits), and is based on a skill that hasn't been used at all until you're at level 39 (leading to a very long and unforgiving skill-up period).  The ONLY situational use I can find for this spell is as a pull spell (nail the encounter's caster right off the bat?).  I know of no Templar who keeps this spell up and running ever.

Arcane Aid:  Cures beneficial buffs.  Per Xrande:  Spells with an AC bonus when hit (Intercession and SP for example) show the buff as a detrimental arcane spell on the target and using the Arcane Aid cure will remove the added AC bonus.

Salvation:  From its description it is supposed to be a version of Everquest I's divine intervention - basically a buff that fires off only if someone hits zero hit points in a last ditch effort to save them.  As is, its current value is questionable to say the least.  If you CAN get it to fire off, it almost never heals for any appreciable effect.  In addition, the spell description is off.sources from:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=4618

Message Edited by Xrande on 06-24-2005 01:59 AM

[kaoriknigh]

Um personally I feel those are horrible submissions except for Prostrate.

The problem isn't with arcane aid, its that those spells like the AC portions of Intercession and Involuntar Curate reprise are flagged as detrimental.

Salvation isn't broken either-- I've had it fire on a consistent basis for 1k HP. I've had it save our MT from dying from their Death's Door buff-- its only 60% at Adept 3, thats still a large margin to fail, nothing broken with it though, thats what its supposed to do. Its not supposed to be a replicate of the EQ1 incarnation because it was overpowered. This being on the list falls into the "spells that you feel are too weak or don't meet your expectations" category.

I would put Cure Trauma / Tonmerk's Mending Aura on the list. This is our only cure that doesnt' scale indefinitely-- it greys out and only reaches a max cure of 68 levels of Trauma. Obviously while Trauma effects aren't running rampant through the game, its not scaling properly like the other cures.

I would also put either Glory of Combat due to its recast time although being toggleable or Praetorate-- our 15 minute concentration buff because that doesn't seem logical, although that could fall into the "meet expectations" category.

Edit: I submitted Cure Trauma, Glory of Combat and Praetorate as our broken spells all for the reasons listed above. I can't agree with Salvation because its working for what it says it will do. Prostrate actually does what it says it will do and Cure Arcane isn't the issue with removing "beneficial" effects, its that they are flagged wrong, and they actually fixed Intercession being cured.

 

 

Message Edited by kaoriknights on 06-23-2005 11:16 PM

[Xran]

Thanks for the feedback. I hope we can get more input to pin down main 3. As said by BG, try to provide spells 3 most important spells that seem outright broken or badly need looking into. cos we don't want "spells that you feel are too weak or don't meet your expectations (that feedback is desirable as well, but I'm just looking to make a list of the most broken spells/arts from each class)." For me is probably:

1. Prostrate
2. Glory of Combat or the "aggro-reducer" spells
3. FB

[kaoriknigh]

If we aren't looking at a completely non functioning/bugged standpoint I would agree with prostrate and FB being considered. My choices were spells I actually feel are broken mechanically. I didn't wanna fall into the "meet your expectations" category which I feel FB for example would fall into... although "badly needs looking into" would apply.

 

I guess its a fine line because people will have their opinions on certain things-- I'm sure we can get a good selection though to submit provided we remain objective about it. Its one thing to submit GOC for the toggleable recast timer, but another to submit it because it got nerfed to 1 person.

 

Anyway-- this seems to be very positive that they are asking for this feedback, regardless of what is submitted in the end it appears we will get some fixes.

[Xran]

SOE would love nothing more than very constructive feedback about spells. But many times voices get lost in the forums. I agree FB and GoC would probably fall into "badly needs looking into". I intentionally add FB and GoC because other than Prostrate, we don't really have spells that would serve us too well even it be fixed or marginally improved? Am I right in saying this? Again of course FB and GoC is crossing into area of "our expectation of spell being too weak". so if we can get more spells other than Cure Arcane or Salvation? since Kaori mentioned both is more or less working.  

Message Edited by Xrande on 06-24-2005 02:38 AM

[Imri]

I'd definately say that our detaunt heals are broken in the sense the recast time makes them pretty useless except as an oh crap button. Prostrate for obvious reasons. Finally our smite line doesn't scale properly with it's previous version.

So in summary:

1) Distract/Placate/Harmony - to long a recast

2) Prostrate - Casting time and power cost is way to high for the duration it stuns.

3) Reproving/Condemning Smite - Admonishing smite does about 5 damage per power, while its upgrades do 3 on average.

[Spite]

I would go FB, Prostrate and GoC.

I really hate FB. Also what about our resurrection spells bringing people up with one hit worth of points. Character stals aggro, character dies on one hit, We stand um back up, character sneezes, character dies.

I would love it if they change Prostrate to a buff with a 5% chance to stun or the like for what it costs to cast thins would make it more functional. Way off target but a nice thought none the less.

 

Even though when the expansion hits we may need a higher than 68 cure trauma, with the current nerf friendly enviroment if we point out our cure group is the only one that grays we will end up with 4 grays group cures instead of one. 

[CasieStarfi]

Focused Benefaction is sad.  This is our level 50 heal spell.  We understood it needed to be fixed so that the stun could not be clicked off, but adding the huge recast timer and slashing it down to 5 reactive heals was brutal and overkill.

Resurrect is also pretty sad.  Again a spell we get at level 50.  It resurrects target with 1% health and heals target for 126 (126!?).  Plus it has that nasty 5 minute recast timer.  I would love to see this given some real attention.  It is still worse than our lower level rez, and like FB it was a real dissapointment.  I'm not asking for a pally-like spell, but we should do better than heal 126 with that kind of recast timer at level 50.

Praetorate needs help.  Take up a conc slot or be a 15 min buff.  Pick one.  Like someone else here said, its not so amazing that it needs to be both.

Thats the 3 that bug me most!  =p

[AzraelAzgard]

For broken Prostrate is just ridiculous, stuns are supposed to be quick cast not much mana, not 5 sec cast near 400 mana and only lasts a few seconds if it does land

 

In terms of seriously needs looking at:

 

Protectorate/Preatorate - 15 min duration or 12 hrs and use a concentration slot please not both of them, thats unfair.

 

FB in it current for 4 heal and 2 min recast its worthless, either 4 heals and 30 sec recast or 15 heals and 2 min recast would be acceptable and make this a great lvl 50 class spell.

 

Salvation while I agree 60% is fine for pchance to save death and the 1k heal is fine, it would be nice if it lasted a bit longer, everytime Ive used it in a raid so far when the tank hit red and I was worried they just get healed back up and then its wasted for 15mins, which is also very annoying as you can only cast it on your group, no healers from outside your group can cats it for example which is very annoying too. Longer duration and ability to cast on other groups in a raid would be great for all Divine Intervention spells for all priests.

 

Glory of Combat the 9 sec recast is very annoying as its a 15min toggleable spell, I doubt its supposed to be like this.

 

Ressurect - the level 50 Templar rezz, similar story to all other lvl 50 priest rezzes, its worse than the Pally Dirge rezz, its got a 5 min recast timer, theirs rezzes with 50% mana hp and has a 15 sec recast timer. It was supposidly fixed a bit ago which actually nerfed it to be worse than our lvl 22 rezz...

[kaoriknigh]

Quick side track-- Use Salvation in conjunction with a tanks Heal then suicide 30 sec later abillity. Whenever your tank tells you that their Deaths Door or w/e their skill is called fired off, pop up your Salvation-- it can save them from the suicide effect of the spell and is alot more effective since you KNOW they are going to die no matter what in 30 seconds.

 

Seems Prostrate, FB, Praetorate, GOC, and Res are the prevalent important bugged / needs attention spells. Since Res is a universal priest issue I'm not sure if it should be on our *Templar* issues list.

[Xran]

As Kaori has said... Ressurect should be looked across the whole board as a Priest class probably.So would it be right if we mention this as top 3:- Prostrate- FB- Praetorate- GoChmmm, we have 4.Below is what Tamat from EQ2 warcry submitted.

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Greater Restoration - Level 56 Big Heal - This spell at adept III only heals 955 which compared to other heals are I think fairly average. I personally think that templars should get the best and biggest heals as it is our primary job while others like shamans and druids can do other things. The additional effect on this is cure Disease/Point and only 58 counters at that. We get group cure spells that heal over 100 counters so this additional effect is worthless. Inquisitors get the same kind of spell only there additional effect is a 40%+ haste .... much more useful. Something alittle more potient and a cool additional effect would be great.Sacred Redoubt - Level 44 HP buff - This single target HP buff that takes up a Conc slot only buffs like 373hp at its adept 3 form. In addition it increases crushing, slashing, piercing skill by 2. This spell needs either a buff in the ammount of HP it gives or some more useful additonal effects.

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[bigmak20]

FB - just another reactive heal why the 2 min recast?  Definitely needs to be it's original form less the bug. Prostrate - takes longer to cast then it lasts and costs a ton.... so why bother, ever? Ressurect Spells  - i don't remember the names.  All of ours suck.  Take forever to cast or have no power/health with long recast timers.  We're clerics? Very sad yet hilarious that FB as at or near the top of everyone's list.  SOE's infamous nerf bat instead of fixing a bug they completely ruin what was once a templar defining L50 spell.  So sad.  Now we have NO 'templar defining' L50 spell .... What skill do we have that's unique to us?  Not invis; not evac; not tracking; ... what "utility" do we have?  None.  We heal and we should be the best at it.  I'm happy with that; give it back. I think players are turning to Wardens now.  No need for templars.  The wardens have insane amounts of power they can keep a perpetual HoT up and literally never oop.  Must be nice... yes; I'm envious.  If templar had that kind of skill/power they'd nerf us in a second.

[kaoriknigh]

Xrande, where exactly are people submitting these suggestions? Are they just PMing BG or whoever?

I personally don't agree with some of these submissions because they are completely off base of what was originally asked: Spells that were broken or in dire need of attention-- not spells that didn't meet our expectations.

[Xran]

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kaoriknights wrote:

Xrande, where exactly are people submitting these suggestions? Are they just PMing BG or whoever?

I personally don't agree with some of these submissions because they are completely off base of what was originally asked: Spells that were broken or in dire need of attention-- not spells that didn't meet our expectations.

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People are submitting this in a forum where we post suggestions and feedbacks without being too cluttered by other forum posts. Yeah, a couple of the suggestions were more what were not in line with our expectations.

Message Edited by Xrande on 06-30-2005 12:22 AM

[kaoriknigh]

Well its just disappointing we have a somewhat common consensus, although small, but nonetheless-- and then the other guy you mentioned submitted stuff that no one else has even listed here.

I will trust your representation Xrande but I've never even heard of this other person,... I think its a little unfair for someone like that to be representing our templar concerns.

[Xran]

Tamat is a L50 Templar ... I believe. So he would have more experience than I do. A lot of his suggestions are probably stuff that fall into the "not meet our expectations" list. I am glad you trust my representation... when I am really not even L50 yet. I just rely my info and feedback from people like you guys.

[bigmak20]

Thanks for bringing these issues to devs attention.  I would like to bring up something that I think is on target but not thought of in this context even though I think it should be: GROUP CURES (all of them) They are "broken" because they are given as "training options" not the necessary indeed mandatory "spell" that they are.  Group cures should be part of the NORMAL SPELL PROGRESSION not a "training option" -- and are therefore broken due to being completely misrepresented in the character's progression. So... in the context of "spells to fix" add all group cures to normal spell progression.

[randomto]

Ok, here is one that might actually be broken, and how to do it.  Please keep in mind that I have not done this since the latest update, so please try it and see if still works this way, or if it is already fixed.

What you need to do this - a templar, an inquisitor, and a necromancer.

Have the Templar cast a group reactive while the Necro has his pet up.  Then have the Necro cast that spell that eats health off of the pet to regen his power.  The Templar group reactives will proc, healing the pet for the 50 or so damage a tick it would take, and wasting reactive heals better spent on the group.

Have the Inquisitor cast a group reactive while the Necro has his pet up.  Then have the Necro cast that spell that eats health off of the pet to regen his power.  The Inquisitor group reactives will NOT proc, leaving the pet with the 50 damage a tick he takes and saving the reactives for the group.

Not sure if it is the Templar or the Inquisitor that is broken here, but it seemed odd to me that the two group reactives would respond differently.

-Bliss 46 Templar, Nektulos

[Wossname]

I'm only a 41 Templar so probably don't count towards "high-level" but the spell that narks me most is Protectorate/Praetorate. Compare this to low level (less than 25) shaman spell that gives similar type of benefit to Protectorate but to the whole group at the cost of 1 conc slot. A little parity here (i.e. give us Protectorate line as group buffs, 12 hours, conc slot) would be good. Heck, my Wizard alt has an Int/Sta buff that is 12 hours for the group... Prostrate doesn't even make my hotbars it is so useless. The PBAoE hate-reduction spells actually *cause* agro if there are non-agro mobs within radius, again, these don't have a place on my hotbars. Thanks to Xrande for keeping Templar issues in front of the devs Edit: PS I know this is technically over the list of 3 but the water breathing spell duplication and the low level summon food is a waste of spell space IMO.

Message Edited by Wossname on 06-30-2005 04:25 PM

[Xran]

Here's some of my response to our issues:

• Group cures: this was brought up in Fan Faire. Devs say it is being looked into... but not sure about group cures being replaced as our default cures, but maybe perhaps thru future expansions. Though come combat revamp, we WILL get another chance to respec. So everyone can choose group cures again.
• Hmm, the templar and inquisitor group reactive firing off differently with necro pets is interesting. I will add it in our already very long issues list.
• Water breathing spells: I personally mentioned this at the fan faire. "We have nothing planned at this moment". Though the devs did took note of it.
• Protectorate/Praetorate - I believe these 2 are already in issues list. Nothing on this yet.
• the PBAoE hate-reducer is also on our list...nothing on that from the devs...

[Bjerde]

Quick comment....Adept I to Adept III upgrades for Shielding Faith (handful more power points) and Sacred Redoubt (10 more hp) are a waste of a good Ruby. As for fixes, I agree with Cassie: Praetorate - as a 15 min buff with no concentration slot. Is this a bug that it is both? Other classes have great buffs than that and aren't a concentration slot (Fury has Savagery for example, great Agi buff, no conc slot) Focused Benefaction - not very good spell right now Resurrect - I never use this....Pally or Dirge does the rezzing. SO much better than the healers, LOL