odd....necromancers most usless mage-groupplay class :(

Penp · 03-28-2005, 03:28 AM

not only that i am playing a necro myself but im watching other summoners , good and evil ones, for a while what can i say,..i cant rely on them damagewise of all mages we are the worst damagedealers IF HAVE TO ACT AS ONLY DAMAGEDEALER IN GRP our pet is nothing more than mana battery, and act as a small-medium dot damage while engaged, we are not talking about soloing its groupplay what i want to discuss. so whats our problem..... problem is before we can stack our 3-4 dots on an enemy the enemy is already dead. of course we would give a nice choice for epic and raid monsters , we can stack dots on them and have nearly endless damage but im just tired of not seeing any damage on an enemy , i stack my dots , send in my pet and before i can stack lets say 3 dots or renew a dot the enemy is slained anyway by my group. i cant "speed up" the fight and in my opinion damagedealers are all about speed up a fight, i just can support in damage a bit. if a mage or scout goes afk during a fight i FEEL A DIFFERENCE* if i, the necro, go afk in a fight my party doesnt feel anyt change, seems klike my damage is just nice if the fights are LONG and in random exp partys you just do blues , whites and yellow ++ monsters that can be killed quite quickly im just lacking direct damage NUKES, and it makes me sick. know what? maybe i will upgrade dust blast or another direct nuke to adept 3 and just spam it and keep pet just to leech mana from and btw it make me sick to manually attack each and every enemy again after 1 enemy died. if i wouldnt send my pet manually in combat to the next enemy again , it would stop fighting and come back to me. oh i forgot, we can give essence shift crystakls to players....ooooh 0.2 more power with using that on adept 1 , really not worth talkig about. im just using it to fill the inventory of my mates so that they are always having a full inventory and im the person who gets the drops SMILEY

GottFau · 03-28-2005, 05:29 AM

What lvl is your necromancer? We are relatively weak untill we hit lvl 29, after that we start gaining momentum and become the second most powerful dps class in the game. We used to be the best, but Warlocs out-dps us now due to the patch on the 10th.

Hidohebhi · 03-28-2005, 07:52 AM

I agree. I really started to feel effective after level 30. Until then it was pretty mediocre. If you want some fun DPS, get the dogs at 30 and cast em every other fight.

backya · 03-28-2005, 08:28 AM

im a lvl 45 necro going on 46, in group not only do i out dps everyone i almost always get aggro, on my server there times when i log on and am swarmed with tells for groups. If you know what you are doing no other mage class can out damage you, not even the over hyped petty wizzards. Dont let anyone tell you necromancers are useless, because it is far from the truth.

See · 03-28-2005, 09:24 AM

Heh - we took down the raid spider Agelidaes today in a 13-man raid group. The fight took 10:13 to complete and I (45 Necro) dealt 54,434 points of damage and my RT did another 12,385 for a total DPS of 109.

Oh, and Horrific Mark and Nevagon's Pestilential Mark kept it powerless at 50% of it's health...

Penp · 03-28-2005, 03:28 PM

yeah im just hitting lvl 29 soon but i agree that we outdamge people at raid mobs but whats with blue ++ and white ++ and yellow ++ those creatures are simply too fast dead before we can stack our dots and just 1 dot doesnt outdamages anything here

Penp · 03-28-2005, 07:34 PM

omg again with my inquisitor in a party, there is a qeynos summoner and he just sends in his pet, his mana is always full and well a badly played summoner is worst class ever seen

vro · 03-28-2005, 08:21 PM

Man, people need to read these forms before they post. Before I made it to EL I liked my necro, lvl 28, I felt I wasnt really a necro because of all my spells from being a summoner. I got to EL and was able to solo Oranges without any problems then I hit 29, scribed ad3 PB and never stopped running, the dmg diff was crazy, send pet, stack a few dots, complete a HO and oranges were dead, went from 29 - 32 in a few days solo'n oranges and the loot was very nice. Groups in RE made great XP and i was always 1st or 2nd in DPS. Got close to 40 goto RV same thing, in groups fighting white^^ yellow^^'s, whatever, I'm always doing 1st or 2nd highest DPS and man, ad3 RT kicks total [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Now with ad3 swarm of bats my dps has gone up even more. The latest round of issues with the pet cause some headaches but u gotta do what u gotta do. People who whine and complaine need to read more in our forms... they are a GREAT source of info for newbs and seasoned vets. Just some off numbers from what i can remember. 29-34 averaged about 70-90 dps 35-38.6 average about 80-110dps 38.6-41 average about 120-140dps 172dps my has been my personal best. was a mess, RT, Hounds, Bats, stuff flying everywhere hah. :smileyvery-happy: Every necro should run combatstats (www.combatstats.com) or change the colors of your dmg output so you can actuailly SEE ALL THE DMG YOU DO! Sony kinda messed up in this reguard making nearly everything WHITE text. Simple color changes to the DMG Text helps a TON if you dont wanna run a parcer. Just my 2 cents, Necro's kick @$$ quit badmouthing us. --- Salvia - 41 Necro - Highkeep

Message Edited by vroxx on 03-28-2005 07:41 AM

thisMoriMo · 03-29-2005, 09:08 PM

Actually, the guy has a good point. Our damage, while over over time, isn't that great in fast fights. It takes alot of casting to stack all our slow damage on a target. I've been through evenings where it barely feels like I can get a spell off before the target is dead. Our spells do cast slowly, and if you think you need to debuff first, you might miss the fight. It's annoying to string together four "Target already Dead"s in an encounter. I actually don't enjoy high DPS groups too much--they don't appreciate it when you tell them to stop killing everything so quickly! It can much more theraputic to NOT assist the tank and pick my own target in multicritter encounters. Then I can finish my AEs in peace. As far as group play goes, we're definitely situational, but we LOST a few group attributes in the last patch. We can't invis more than one person anymore, or ward more than one, and we have distinct downtime betwen pet buffs (and pet resummonings--grrrr). This stuff didn't make us all that fab, but it was something that we occasionally could contribute...turns out nobody knew we could do stuff like that anyway.

Rhug · 03-29-2005, 10:18 PM

I dont really see the problem. Increasing our burst DPS will solve nothing in the senerios that have been described. If the mob is dying in 10 seconds just nuke a couple times and be done with it if you want to contribute. Obviously the group is fighting stuff way to easy and doesnt need any more DPS if solo/group mobs are dying so fast. At 32 I have never been in a group that was killing so fast that I wasnt able to get a full salvo of dots off that didnt run to completion. Most of the time I have to apply a second set or nuke a couple times untill dead.

If they did increase our burst DPS that would overpower us when we are soloing. Fighting Yellow/OJ mobs in EL I can kill a solo mob with adept3 UA ,1 cast of 2 dots (adept 1), and 1 HO using adept3 PB. Fights last no more than 45 seconds. Any faster would be rediculous.

thisMoriMo · 03-29-2005, 10:33 PM

I don't need more damage. I'd just like to be able to complete my casts. I think that reducing the cast time of AEs and DoTs while increasing their refresh time a corresponding amount would add to group utility without being overpowering. As far as my group killing things too easy if they die too fast, yeah, but. You can't always pick what you choose to fight. If your group goes after a group encounter, it may have 1^^ up to 4 or more mobs with no ^s. These are the ones that can die too quickly to get off many AEs and/or DoTs if you are on the same target as the group. Necros in groups excel at things with arrows. Not so much with the low HP targets. I really didn't notice it too much until the mid 40s.

Rhug · 03-29-2005, 10:45 PM

In the case with 1 ^ and a 4 no arrow mobs I would cast a ae dot or 2 so the whole group is taking damage and then stack some single target ones on the ^ arrow. At level 32 we have two ae dots to use. I hear what you are saying but I just dont think it needs changing based on your reasoning. Your welcome to your opinon though and thats mine.

Treelurk · 03-30-2005, 06:40 AM

Actually, the guy has a good point. Our damage, while over over time, isn't that great in fast fights.

Who cares? If the fight is over that fast, they don't need us. I personally don't think it's an issue at all. This isn't something that needs to be fixed, it's the way Necros are. You're not a wizard, get over it. If you want to be a wizard, roll a wizard.

HollowMan11 · 03-30-2005, 08:55 AM

We also debuff and all that great stuff! :smileyhappy:

Ayar · 03-30-2005, 11:34 AM

Well I can't say much about lower levels as I don't really remember too much about it since it was all over in about a weeks time.

However I can say that at 35+ I was the highest DPS in my groups and I still am when raiding. Remember necromancers are the best constant DPS meaning slow hard fights. The sorcery line of mages are the best spike DPS possible due to their longer recast times, our spells were in my opinion meant to be low damage and low recast time to enable spam casting and no hate pulling (I wish I pull hate all the time. . .)

As for our Pets I must say that our pets do decent damage if you can keep up with the power drain. I've done a lot of Parsing on my pets soloing grey double-ups with my pet soloing testing everything. It seems to me that Rotting Thrall and Shadowy Assassin are the two best for DPS due to the Pet buffs giving them procs. I have yet to see Grim Terror do a proc, and doubt I will since he is a spell caster and doesn't melee. All of my pets are Adept III and buffs are Adept III so there is no issue concerning balance through that.

As for the debuffs we can cast, Defilers have us beat there I wouldn't be able to touch them in that area.

Ayarel - 50 Necromancer on Grobb

nhdjoseywales · 03-30-2005, 08:22 PM

perhaps you are focusing too much on just the dps aspect of the class. we cannot be the perfect dps class in all situations, get over it. necros get a ton of useful spells that can be as valuable if not more valuable than our dps contributions. In those fast killing groups where mobs die almost as fast as our spell cast times we can do more of those utility functions. things like making sure the tank/main healer always has dark hearts and shards for power (after all pulling that fast has to take the most toll on the tank and healers power pool) are always helpful and add to your group contribution. If you do want to do DPS and the mobs are dying so fast you can barely cast on them, then DONT assist the tank and cast your ae's on one of the mobs then start chain nuking whatever the tank is on and as stated above, if there is a ^^ mob then toss the rat pets and a couple debuffs/dots on it while the group eats thru the trash. in the end tho, if you play by the parser you will not have as much fun or be as useful than if you just play and adapt to whatever role the group NEEDS and not just what you want to be.

Te Ko · 03-30-2005, 08:57 PM

Nothing new to add but since the same question shows up all the time and everybody seems high level her…

I’m a 31 necro and I like my damage output very much. I use my 30 training caster pet and an adept version of PB….I share the same experience as everybody else, mentioned a lot in the forum. Before 29 we suck in DD because dust blast is our nuke but only after the change to 29 PB and the 30 pet/spell it’s a completely different story. My pet out damages me with some nukes and I will replace it with the hounds as soon as I get the RT…happy necro…useful necro….end of story.

Maybe another story for the upper levels but reading the forum does indicate that there are some happy high level necros.

thisMoriMo · 03-30-2005, 09:09 PM

I think that our DPS overall is adequate (although pets could be tweaked some) but our DPS is best in sustained situations and not so fab in groups killing things quickly. (There ARE group mobs that are appropriate level for a group even if they die quickly.) It IS an issue and it CAN be annoying, but it just means we're better in some situations than others and people can miss that. (Funny how whenever someone points out that it's hard to apply alot of slow casting spells to things that die fast, someone else has to claim that they do the best DPS in their raid groups, as though that refutes the point instead of merely supporting it. Raids do not tend to be fast fights. Well, not successful raids...)

Rhug · 03-30-2005, 10:11 PM

The reason that Raids are always brought up is you can not change one with out the change affecting the other. If you were to make dots have a shorter recast, shorter recharge, and tick for higher damage for a shorter duration you effectivly raise DPS. The person posting about raids was just saying that allot of necros with the proper spells already DPS in the top 5 in raids. I for one feel my DPS is fine because we have other utility spells as compensation. It seems that we already have a hard time avoiding aggro as it is. Throw a UA, 2 dots, Hounds, and a bunch of PB at a mob 1 right after the other and see how long it takes the mob to turn on you.

See · 03-30-2005, 11:04 PM

Rhugan wrote:

Throw a UA, 2 dots, Hounds, and a bunch of PB at a mob 1 right after the other and see how long it takes the mob to turn on you.

Exactly! In the raid on Ageliedaes that I mentioned above I was by far the highest DPS output. But I also held back on casting to make sure that I didn't pull aggro since I knew that one barrage from her was higher than my total HP. I also knew that she casts a group AE for 1150+ per tick so getting aggro meant certain death for my entire group. In parsing, Plague of Rats and Ghastly Stench were both over 10K damage each so those 2 DoTs alone were 40% of my output - and those 2 DoTs alone were more damage than many others did in total.

thisMoriMo · 03-31-2005, 12:16 AM

I think I suggested that any faster cast rate for DoTs be linked to an INCREASE in recast time. I don't need more DPS. The slow cast rate is mostly an annoyance (and a HO killer). I'm sure we all agree that necros are good in some spots and not as good in others. Situations vary considerably, and if one is refering to FAST fights, it's not especially good logic to disagree based on RAID fights. Necro DPS style is slow and steady. The original poster has found that to not always be the best style of DPS in every group. I agree that in many situations it isn't the best DPS style for maximum group efficiency. I could just tell him he's wrong because he'll be good in a raid, but I don't think that's much of an answer. All classes have certain situations in which they excel. I would not presume to know how well it's balanced across the classes, but there are certainly places where necromancers are pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good in a group as well as places where almost any other class would be preferable. Deny it if you must. But instead of telling the original poster he's wrong about what he has experienced, why not tell him when he can be good in a group, or how to deal with being in a not-so-necro-friendly environment?

Quitar · 03-31-2005, 03:10 AM

Hi all, 37 Ogre Necro here :smileytongue: Its true, as most of us know, in short fights we are pretty useless in groups. I cast Grisly Brace on the tank ...send pet and nuke...sometimes I will through ghastly stench if the mob is not too low on health to quick. However, short fights are not our strong point. In along fight I have not met a warlock/wizard/ranger/assasin..or anyone else for that matter that can out dps me at a comparable level. As I am sure from some of the above posts other Necros can attest to also. We are the DPS class up to 45 (from what I hear)...from that point on I have some reservations. I will let you know when I get there. I have pulled aggro from tanks that are 6 levels higher to their astonishment. Necros, in my opinion, in groups have 3 things to do (in short fights) 1) debuff, 2)nuke/dot as required 3) pickup adds. I constantly use my pet to hold off an add while the group takes down the initial target. In a harder fight I send pet, dogs and dots galore and watch the numbers fly. No one can keep up with us. One of the worst things I have found is that we cannot group effectively with other necros but that is a rant for another day. Just my 2 cents...

Te Ko · 03-31-2005, 01:32 PM

I agree with you Mori and I think Penpal has some good points in the original post but...

im just lacking direct damage NUKES, and it makes me sick.
know what? maybe i will upgrade dust blast or another direct nuke to adept 3 and just spam it and keep pet just to leech mana from

...sounded like he is not (yet) using PB. There is not much of a point to compare our DD with other classes without having our first nuke on an adept level.

Why we have to rely on a sumoner spell until we reach 29, the whole DoT efficiency and long/short fight discussions are different story.

Skyhawk · 03-31-2005, 04:17 PM

50 necro here, and honestly i don't see us as useless or weak at all hehe i agree - below 30ish we are not the best class to group with, but we are strong soloers from the start, so it should not be a problem of getting up to 30 SMILEY

i think our 38 tank pet is pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good DPS, specialy if you get it to adept 3 or master, and even in a well balanced group i found i can do a good amount of damage on a mob before it dies while grinding from 40 to 50. and even if you don't get to refresh the DoTs all the time - be happy about that SMILEY

if your group is killing so fast it's partialy down to you as well: your buffs, your pet and your initial DoTs. on named or epic encounters i tend to do a lot of HOs and mage started HOs rule. for raiding we are one of the most needed classes IMO. i have not seen any other class at a raid that is as busy as the necro: - debuffing - mana draining - handing out hearts - doing damage - HOing i feel the necromancer is very well balanced at the moment and is a well liked and appreciated, if not essential, class in any group.

03-28-2005, 07:52 AM	#3
Hidohebhi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Permafrost Posts: 81	I agree. I really started to feel effective after level 30. Until then it was pretty mediocre. If you want some fun DPS, get the dogs at 30 and cast em every other fight. __________________

03-28-2005, 09:24 AM	#5
See Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 419	Heh - we took down the raid spider Agelidaes today in a 13-man raid group. The fight took 10:13 to complete and I (45 Necro) dealt 54,434 points of damage and my RT did another 12,385 for a total DPS of 109. Oh, and Horrific Mark and Nevagon's Pestilential Mark kept it powerless at 50% of it's health... __________________

03-28-2005, 08:21 PM	#8
vro Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 47	Man, people need to read these forms before they post. Before I made it to EL I liked my necro, lvl 28, I felt I wasnt really a necro because of all my spells from being a summoner. I got to EL and was able to solo Oranges without any problems then I hit 29, scribed ad3 PB and never stopped running, the dmg diff was crazy, send pet, stack a few dots, complete a HO and oranges were dead, went from 29 - 32 in a few days solo'n oranges and the loot was very nice. Groups in RE made great XP and i was always 1st or 2nd in DPS. Got close to 40 goto RV same thing, in groups fighting white^^ yellow^^'s, whatever, I'm always doing 1st or 2nd highest DPS and man, ad3 RT kicks total [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Now with ad3 swarm of bats my dps has gone up even more. The latest round of issues with the pet cause some headaches but u gotta do what u gotta do. People who whine and complaine need to read more in our forms... they are a GREAT source of info for newbs and seasoned vets. Just some off numbers from what i can remember. 29-34 averaged about 70-90 dps 35-38.6 average about 80-110dps 38.6-41 average about 120-140dps 172dps my has been my personal best. was a mess, RT, Hounds, Bats, stuff flying everywhere hah. :smileyvery-happy: Every necro should run combatstats (www.combatstats.com) or change the colors of your dmg output so you can actuailly SEE ALL THE DMG YOU DO! Sony kinda messed up in this reguard making nearly everything WHITE text. Simple color changes to the DMG Text helps a TON if you dont wanna run a parcer. Just my 2 cents, Necro's kick @$$ quit badmouthing us. --- Salvia - 41 Necro - Highkeep Message Edited by vroxx on 03-28-2005 07:41 AM __________________ --- Dev's dont click me!

03-30-2005, 06:40 AM	#13
Treelurk General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Actually, the guy has a good point. Our damage, while over over time, isn't that great in fast fights. Who cares? If the fight is over that fast, they don't need us. I personally don't think it's an issue at all. This isn't something that needs to be fixed, it's the way Necros are. You're not a wizard, get over it. If you want to be a wizard, roll a wizard. __________________ "Distance is your friend when your armor is a bathrobe." - Sotaudi

03-30-2005, 08:55 AM	#14
HollowMan11 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 58	We also debuff and all that great stuff! :smileyhappy: __________________ Kubol 43 Fury Deathscale 70 Necromancer Permafrost Kubol 70 Fury Nagafen

03-28-2005, 03:28 AM	#1
Penp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	not only that i am playing a necro myself but im watching other summoners , good and evil ones, for a while what can i say,..i cant rely on them damagewise of all mages we are the worst damagedealers IF HAVE TO ACT AS ONLY DAMAGEDEALER IN GRP our pet is nothing more than mana battery, and act as a small-medium dot damage while engaged, we are not talking about soloing its groupplay what i want to discuss. so whats our problem..... problem is before we can stack our 3-4 dots on an enemy the enemy is already dead. of course we would give a nice choice for epic and raid monsters , we can stack dots on them and have nearly endless damage but im just tired of not seeing any damage on an enemy , i stack my dots , send in my pet and before i can stack lets say 3 dots or renew a dot the enemy is slained anyway by my group. i cant "speed up" the fight and in my opinion damagedealers are all about speed up a fight, i just can support in damage a bit. if a mage or scout goes afk during a fight i FEEL A DIFFERENCE* if i, the necro, go afk in a fight my party doesnt feel anyt change, seems klike my damage is just nice if the fights are LONG and in random exp partys you just do blues , whites and yellow ++ monsters that can be killed quite quickly im just lacking direct damage NUKES, and it makes me sick. know what? maybe i will upgrade dust blast or another direct nuke to adept 3 and just spam it and keep pet just to leech mana from and btw it make me sick to manually attack each and every enemy again after 1 enemy died. if i wouldnt send my pet manually in combat to the next enemy again , it would stop fighting and come back to me. oh i forgot, we can give essence shift crystakls to players....ooooh 0.2 more power with using that on adept 1 , really not worth talkig about. im just using it to fill the inventory of my mates so that they are always having a full inventory and im the person who gets the drops

03-28-2005, 05:29 AM	#2
GottFau General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8	What lvl is your necromancer? We are relatively weak untill we hit lvl 29, after that we start gaining momentum and become the second most powerful dps class in the game. We used to be the best, but Warlocs out-dps us now due to the patch on the 10th.

03-28-2005, 08:28 AM	#4
backya Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 105	im a lvl 45 necro going on 46, in group not only do i out dps everyone i almost always get aggro, on my server there times when i log on and am swarmed with tells for groups. If you know what you are doing no other mage class can out damage you, not even the over hyped petty wizzards. Dont let anyone tell you necromancers are useless, because it is far from the truth.

03-28-2005, 03:28 PM	#6
Penp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	yeah im just hitting lvl 29 soon but i agree that we outdamge people at raid mobs but whats with blue ++ and white ++ and yellow ++ those creatures are simply too fast dead before we can stack our dots and just 1 dot doesnt outdamages anything here

03-28-2005, 07:34 PM	#7
Penp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	omg again with my inquisitor in a party, there is a qeynos summoner and he just sends in his pet, his mana is always full and well a badly played summoner is worst class ever seen

03-29-2005, 09:08 PM	#9
thisMoriMo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 197	Actually, the guy has a good point. Our damage, while over over time, isn't that great in fast fights. It takes alot of casting to stack all our slow damage on a target. I've been through evenings where it barely feels like I can get a spell off before the target is dead. Our spells do cast slowly, and if you think you need to debuff first, you might miss the fight. It's annoying to string together four "Target already Dead"s in an encounter. I actually don't enjoy high DPS groups too much--they don't appreciate it when you tell them to stop killing everything so quickly! It can much more theraputic to NOT assist the tank and pick my own target in multicritter encounters. Then I can finish my AEs in peace. As far as group play goes, we're definitely situational, but we LOST a few group attributes in the last patch. We can't invis more than one person anymore, or ward more than one, and we have distinct downtime betwen pet buffs (and pet resummonings--grrrr). This stuff didn't make us all that fab, but it was something that we occasionally could contribute...turns out nobody knew we could do stuff like that anyway.

03-29-2005, 10:18 PM	#10
Rhug General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	I dont really see the problem. Increasing our burst DPS will solve nothing in the senerios that have been described. If the mob is dying in 10 seconds just nuke a couple times and be done with it if you want to contribute. Obviously the group is fighting stuff way to easy and doesnt need any more DPS if solo/group mobs are dying so fast. At 32 I have never been in a group that was killing so fast that I wasnt able to get a full salvo of dots off that didnt run to completion. Most of the time I have to apply a second set or nuke a couple times untill dead. If they did increase our burst DPS that would overpower us when we are soloing. Fighting Yellow/OJ mobs in EL I can kill a solo mob with adept3 UA ,1 cast of 2 dots (adept 1), and 1 HO using adept3 PB. Fights last no more than 45 seconds. Any faster would be rediculous.

03-29-2005, 10:33 PM	#11
thisMoriMo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 197	I don't need more damage. I'd just like to be able to complete my casts. I think that reducing the cast time of AEs and DoTs while increasing their refresh time a corresponding amount would add to group utility without being overpowering. As far as my group killing things too easy if they die too fast, yeah, but. You can't always pick what you choose to fight. If your group goes after a group encounter, it may have 1^^ up to 4 or more mobs with no ^s. These are the ones that can die too quickly to get off many AEs and/or DoTs if you are on the same target as the group. Necros in groups excel at things with arrows. Not so much with the low HP targets. I really didn't notice it too much until the mid 40s.

03-29-2005, 10:45 PM	#12
Rhug General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	In the case with 1 ^ and a 4 no arrow mobs I would cast a ae dot or 2 so the whole group is taking damage and then stack some single target ones on the ^ arrow. At level 32 we have two ae dots to use. I hear what you are saying but I just dont think it needs changing based on your reasoning. Your welcome to your opinon though and thats mine.

03-30-2005, 11:34 AM	#15
Ayar Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	Well I can't say much about lower levels as I don't really remember too much about it since it was all over in about a weeks time. However I can say that at 35+ I was the highest DPS in my groups and I still am when raiding. Remember necromancers are the best constant DPS meaning slow hard fights. The sorcery line of mages are the best spike DPS possible due to their longer recast times, our spells were in my opinion meant to be low damage and low recast time to enable spam casting and no hate pulling (I wish I pull hate all the time. . .) As for our Pets I must say that our pets do decent damage if you can keep up with the power drain. I've done a lot of Parsing on my pets soloing grey double-ups with my pet soloing testing everything. It seems to me that Rotting Thrall and Shadowy Assassin are the two best for DPS due to the Pet buffs giving them procs. I have yet to see Grim Terror do a proc, and doubt I will since he is a spell caster and doesn't melee. All of my pets are Adept III and buffs are Adept III so there is no issue concerning balance through that. As for the debuffs we can cast, Defilers have us beat there I wouldn't be able to touch them in that area. Ayarel - 50 Necromancer on Grobb __________________ Ayarel - 50 Necromancer on Grobb

03-30-2005, 08:22 PM	#16
nhdjoseywales Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: memphis, tn Posts: 42	perhaps you are focusing too much on just the dps aspect of the class. we cannot be the perfect dps class in all situations, get over it. necros get a ton of useful spells that can be as valuable if not more valuable than our dps contributions. In those fast killing groups where mobs die almost as fast as our spell cast times we can do more of those utility functions. things like making sure the tank/main healer always has dark hearts and shards for power (after all pulling that fast has to take the most toll on the tank and healers power pool) are always helpful and add to your group contribution. If you do want to do DPS and the mobs are dying so fast you can barely cast on them, then DONT assist the tank and cast your ae's on one of the mobs then start chain nuking whatever the tank is on and as stated above, if there is a ^^ mob then toss the rat pets and a couple debuffs/dots on it while the group eats thru the trash. in the end tho, if you play by the parser you will not have as much fun or be as useful than if you just play and adapt to whatever role the group NEEDS and not just what you want to be. __________________ Mizri Luvscompany 80 Necromancer Crushbone server

03-30-2005, 08:57 PM	#17
Te Ko Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 65	Nothing new to add but since the same question shows up all the time and everybody seems high level her… I’m a 31 necro and I like my damage output very much. I use my 30 training caster pet and an adept version of PB….I share the same experience as everybody else, mentioned a lot in the forum. Before 29 we suck in DD because dust blast is our nuke but only after the change to 29 PB and the 30 pet/spell it’s a completely different story. My pet out damages me with some nukes and I will replace it with the hounds as soon as I get the RT…happy necro…useful necro….end of story. Maybe another story for the upper levels but reading the forum does indicate that there are some happy high level necros.

03-30-2005, 09:09 PM	#18
thisMoriMo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 197	I think that our DPS overall is adequate (although pets could be tweaked some) but our DPS is best in sustained situations and not so fab in groups killing things quickly. (There ARE group mobs that are appropriate level for a group even if they die quickly.) It IS an issue and it CAN be annoying, but it just means we're better in some situations than others and people can miss that. (Funny how whenever someone points out that it's hard to apply alot of slow casting spells to things that die fast, someone else has to claim that they do the best DPS in their raid groups, as though that refutes the point instead of merely supporting it. Raids do not tend to be fast fights. Well, not successful raids...)

03-30-2005, 10:11 PM	#19
Rhug General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	The reason that Raids are always brought up is you can not change one with out the change affecting the other. If you were to make dots have a shorter recast, shorter recharge, and tick for higher damage for a shorter duration you effectivly raise DPS. The person posting about raids was just saying that allot of necros with the proper spells already DPS in the top 5 in raids. I for one feel my DPS is fine because we have other utility spells as compensation. It seems that we already have a hard time avoiding aggro as it is. Throw a UA, 2 dots, Hounds, and a bunch of PB at a mob 1 right after the other and see how long it takes the mob to turn on you.

03-30-2005, 11:04 PM	#20
See Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 419	Rhugan wrote: Throw a UA, 2 dots, Hounds, and a bunch of PB at a mob 1 right after the other and see how long it takes the mob to turn on you. Exactly! In the raid on Ageliedaes that I mentioned above I was by far the highest DPS output. But I also held back on casting to make sure that I didn't pull aggro since I knew that one barrage from her was higher than my total HP. I also knew that she casts a group AE for 1150+ per tick so getting aggro meant certain death for my entire group. In parsing, Plague of Rats and Ghastly Stench were both over 10K damage each so those 2 DoTs alone were 40% of my output - and those 2 DoTs alone were more damage than many others did in total. __________________

03-31-2005, 12:16 AM	#21
thisMoriMo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 197	I think I suggested that any faster cast rate for DoTs be linked to an INCREASE in recast time. I don't need more DPS. The slow cast rate is mostly an annoyance (and a HO killer). I'm sure we all agree that necros are good in some spots and not as good in others. Situations vary considerably, and if one is refering to FAST fights, it's not especially good logic to disagree based on RAID fights. Necro DPS style is slow and steady. The original poster has found that to not always be the best style of DPS in every group. I agree that in many situations it isn't the best DPS style for maximum group efficiency. I could just tell him he's wrong because he'll be good in a raid, but I don't think that's much of an answer. All classes have certain situations in which they excel. I would not presume to know how well it's balanced across the classes, but there are certainly places where necromancers are pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good in a group as well as places where almost any other class would be preferable. Deny it if you must. But instead of telling the original poster he's wrong about what he has experienced, why not tell him when he can be good in a group, or how to deal with being in a not-so-necro-friendly environment?

03-31-2005, 03:10 AM	#22
Quitar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	Hi all, 37 Ogre Necro here :smileytongue: Its true, as most of us know, in short fights we are pretty useless in groups. I cast Grisly Brace on the tank ...send pet and nuke...sometimes I will through ghastly stench if the mob is not too low on health to quick. However, short fights are not our strong point. In along fight I have not met a warlock/wizard/ranger/assasin..or anyone else for that matter that can out dps me at a comparable level. As I am sure from some of the above posts other Necros can attest to also. We are the DPS class up to 45 (from what I hear)...from that point on I have some reservations. I will let you know when I get there. I have pulled aggro from tanks that are 6 levels higher to their astonishment. Necros, in my opinion, in groups have 3 things to do (in short fights) 1) debuff, 2)nuke/dot as required 3) pickup adds. I constantly use my pet to hold off an add while the group takes down the initial target. In a harder fight I send pet, dogs and dots galore and watch the numbers fly. No one can keep up with us. One of the worst things I have found is that we cannot group effectively with other necros but that is a rant for another day. Just my 2 cents...

03-31-2005, 01:32 PM	#23
Te Ko Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 65	I agree with you Mori and I think Penpal has some good points in the original post but... im just lacking direct damage NUKES, and it makes me sick. know what? maybe i will upgrade dust blast or another direct nuke to adept 3 and just spam it and keep pet just to leech mana from ...sounded like he is not (yet) using PB. There is not much of a point to compare our DD with other classes without having our first nuke on an adept level. Why we have to rely on a sumoner spell until we reach 29, the whole DoT efficiency and long/short fight discussions are different story.

03-31-2005, 04:17 PM	#24
Skyhawk Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	50 necro here, and honestly i don't see us as useless or weak at all hehe i agree - below 30ish we are not the best class to group with, but we are strong soloers from the start, so it should not be a problem of getting up to 30 i think our 38 tank pet is pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good DPS, specialy if you get it to adept 3 or master, and even in a well balanced group i found i can do a good amount of damage on a mob before it dies while grinding from 40 to 50. and even if you don't get to refresh the DoTs all the time - be happy about that if your group is killing so fast it's partialy down to you as well: your buffs, your pet and your initial DoTs. on named or epic encounters i tend to do a lot of HOs and mage started HOs rule. for raiding we are one of the most needed classes IMO. i have not seen any other class at a raid that is as busy as the necro: - debuffing - mana draining - handing out hearts - doing damage - HOing i feel the necromancer is very well balanced at the moment and is a well liked and appreciated, if not essential, class in any group.