LU31, pet changes - Page 3

Draco the Grey · 01-24-2007, 04:12 PM

I'm going to have to agree with Summona here. Experienced raid conjurors will see a modest increase in their DPS at best. It's the poor-mediocre raid conjurors that will see a drastic increase in their dps parse, and that seems to be what a lot of people who don't like the change have a problem with.

DobyMT wrote:

Traxor789 wrote:I just stated that i see necromancers pulling more aggro then wizards but im not dicussing which is better just that the pet fix really ~~wont~~ will drastically raise the dps parses of exprearienced conjurors.someone else did that

Draco the Grey · 01-24-2007, 04:50 PM

InsertNeko wrote:
Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining.
Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM

In the meantime, before the change goes live, a word of advice: Call Servant is your friend. :smileywink:

Renpatsu · 01-24-2007, 04:55 PM

Draco the Grey wrote:
I'm going to have to agree with Summona here. Experienced raid conjurors will see a modest increase in their DPS at best. It's the poor-mediocre raid conjurors that will see a drastic increase in their dps parse, and that seems to be what a lot of people who don't like the change have a problem with.
...

I agree, that those who are skilled in pet usage will see only a modest increase in DPS with LU31, simply, because some time you have to pull the pet back - e.g. because of a damage shield or because a damage/death preventer is not up in an AE fight.The main problem for me is, that it'll be very easy DPS with the mage pet staying ranged, easier than any wizard or warlock is able to earn it. And this will lead to class balancing from my point of view (mage pet damage adjusting). Aggro is simply a non issue for conjurors in a good raid setup, if the mage pet stays alive. And this will be trivialized.When the scout pet damage had been tuned down a couple of LUs before, the developers stated, that the mage pet got higher damage potential, because it's harder to handle and more fragile. And now with LU31 ? Mage pet doing more damage than scout pet and easier to handle as well ? I don't think this will last long.Which arguments do we have to stay on top of the parse after LU31 ?

Draco the Grey · 01-24-2007, 05:33 PM

Come to think of it, if you're outside AOE range, properly positioned behind the mob so that ripostes aren't an issue, and have the AOE's properly timed then jousting amounts to:/pet backoff + Call Servant + /pet attack (after the AOE fires)And this is the m4D Sk1Lzz that you all have your panties in a bunch over???

Renpatsu · 01-24-2007, 05:45 PM

Draco the Grey wrote:Come to think of it, if you're outside AOE range, properly positioned behind the mob so that ripostes aren't an issue, and have the AOE's properly timed then jousting amounts to:/pet backoff + Call Servant + /pet attack (after the AOE fires)And this is the m4D Sk1Lzz that you all have your panties in a bunch over???

At least it's enough skill needed to make average conjurors parse very low with mage pet or even force them to switch to scout pet because they can't handle. Not to worry about the pet is one less thing to have to think about, so it's getting easier, you can't argue that.Class DPS is balanced across all board, across all playstyles, across all player capabilities. The DPS spectrum of conjurors is very broad and I think that's the sole reason why the best conjurors in raids are able to battle for #1 parse spot. Because in the end, across all board it's balanced. After LU31, the average damage dealt by conjurors will go up thus causing imbalance.

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-24-2007 04:49 AM

Draco the Grey · 01-24-2007, 06:00 PM

Renpatsu wrote:
When the scout pet damage had been tuned down a couple of LUs before, the developers stated, that the mage pet got higher damage potential, because it's harder to handle and more fragile. And now with LU31 ? Mage pet doing more damage than scout pet and easier to handle as well ? I don't think this will last long.Which arguments do we have to stay on top of the parse after LU31 ?

If that was their reasoning at the time, then I can see how that might be a cause for concern. I guess since I started playing back in the days when our DPS pets were useless and the tank pet was terrible at holding aggro against linked mobs, I have trouble getting all that worked up about the various adjustments the devs have made since fixing us in LU13.

Eniwyn · 01-24-2007, 06:17 PM

Indeed this is changes, but do anyone have a link for this change

Anyone got an idea when its going to hit test or Live?

dnice74 · 01-25-2007, 09:48 AM

Traxor789 wrote:
Im at my peace btw with the necro vs conj diffrence , this benifits both classes but more so on the conjuror side. so thats why

Yes, you have been much better lately. Thank you.

Pleiades · 01-25-2007, 10:48 PM

In the Testing Update Notes all I can see is...

*** Pets ***

Name and Chat Bubble settings for pets are now inherited from their owners and will not behave like NPC’s.
Pets no longer have problems attacking while on the stairs.
Adjusting the behavior of your pet will now persist through zoning.

What about the change that started this thread? A fix such that the mage pet does run into melee range?

Sony, this fix is an essential and needed improvement; please ensure this makes it into the game...

Banditman · 01-26-2007, 12:09 AM

No it isn't.It is a widely desired improvement, provided there are not DPS damaging repercussions following it's implimentation.It is certainly not essential or needed.Is there anyone here not able to get to the top of the parse right now? . . . . class? . . . . . anyone? . . . . . Bueller?*crickets*

leannel · 01-26-2007, 01:14 AM

I always considered the mage pet running in close to mobs a "bug", since mages are supposed to cast and fight from a distance, end of story. Think about it, if you saw a wizard in a group/raid running in to hit a mob with a dagger everyone would think he's nuts and didn't know how to play his class. It's about time they fixed this; Please SOE make this change!

DobyMT · 01-26-2007, 02:44 AM

leannel wrote:
I always considered the mage pet running in close to mobs a "bug", since mages are supposed to cast and fight from a distance, end of story. Think about it, if you saw a wizard in a group/raid running in to hit a mob with a dagger everyone would think he's nuts and didn't know how to play his class. It's about time they fixed this; Please SOE make this change!

Hmmm I always see our mages running in and meleeing, especially Wizards on long recast waits. Plus they have a spell or 2 the requires them in melee range, so why not smack it a little bit?

The Mage pet was perfect where it was, and changing it is going to bring Hellfire and Brimstone down on our class from EVERY other class.

K3mik4l · 01-26-2007, 11:58 AM

Even if they only fix the pet not being able to attack issue with terrain elevation I can hardly wait for the next GU SMILEY

Oh, and without a troub, it's not uncommon that I'm not at the top of the parse. With troub however... mana/lifeburn still get wizards and necros to the top.

Ickky · 01-26-2007, 04:53 PM

This change to the pet is going to be a toggle, u can have it on or off, up to each individual. You wanna joust then u can, u dont wanna joust then dont.

If they nerf the Mage pets damage because of this then I do not want this to go live.

However if it is a toggle and the damage goes up if u turn it off and the damage goes down if u turn it on then noone is going to use it so it becomes useless as everyone will keep it turned off to get max damage.

I'm hoping that SoE will not nerf the damage as we need a little love and this is it.

I would think that SoE would inform us if a nerf goes thru because it will become apparent very quickly to us Conjurors that they have nerfed the Mage pet, Ye Gods we waited a long time for this to happen, and yes I always considerd this a bug as well.

The Mage pet only runs in when his timers are down as soon as they are up he starts casting again. So what is the difference, apart from it dieing. If its stood next to the mob it will cast when its timers are up, if its standing next to u it will still only cast if its timers are up. The only difference wil be jousting to avoid dying.

Renpatsu · 01-26-2007, 05:35 PM

Ickky wrote:

This change to the pet is going to be a toggle, u can have it on or off, up to each individual. You wanna joust then u can, u dont wanna joust then dont.

If they nerf the Mage pets damage because of this then I do not want this to go live.

However if it is a toggle and the damage goes up if u turn it off and the damage goes down if u turn it on then noone is going to use it so it becomes useless as everyone will keep it turned off to get max damage.

I'm hoping that SoE will not nerf the damage as we need a little love and this is it.

I would think that SoE would inform us if a nerf goes thru because it will become apparent very quickly to us Conjurors that they have nerfed the Mage pet, Ye Gods we waited a long time for this to happen, and yes I always considerd this a bug as well.

The Mage pet only runs in when his timers are down as soon as they are up he starts casting again. So what is the difference, apart from it dieing. If its stood next to the mob it will cast when its timers are up, if its standing next to u it will still only cast if its timers are up. The only difference wil be jousting to avoid dying.

Well, making something artifically harder for myself compared to one who doesn't, with roundabout the same outcome, is pretty useless. I am happy to invest skill to get an outcome in damage or so. If the difference doesn't show, what's the point in investing jousting skill ?According to SoE not informing us: Perhaps they don't even plan to decrease the damage now, but the other classes will urge SoE to do so. Imagine a Necro with Lifeburn/Undead Tide running, in FD (whereas FD is not even necessary with a guardian as tank) with mage pet out happily casting without it dieing - that's just the extreme example of summoners getting a high benefit of this.And concerning your last lines ... well, the pet dieing is the biggest downside to our DPS. The 'fear' to lose your pet and knowing that the mob will come right for you if it does, is an essential part of being a summoner for me. Sometimes it's a gamble: will the mob AE go off or not - shall I risk the mage pet being close or not ? Especially for those rare AEs. Furthermore, every pull back of the pet costs DPS, it's not much, but it is a bit.

Traxor789 · 01-26-2007, 09:38 PM

ok , i was wrong , screen shot this for future points where ive been wrong.Conjurors will still joust sometimes , and they can range like they should have been the whole time. class balance , **conjuror - necro**

Message Edited by Traxor789 on 01-26-2007 02:38 PM

Renpatsu · 01-26-2007, 10:29 PM

Traxor789 wrote:
there is an awesome benefit to having a mage pet joust or stay back, Lets face it.

Fights like matron, where your doing your job, casting all out, standing in mid range or where ever you stand on the range based ae, Your pet doesnt need to joust , you cant joust that ae. other fights you have to joust , and its wise you dont stand in ae range and he needs to run in to hit all of his spells

FYI

NO CONJURORS WONT BE ABLE TO SIT AT MAX RANGE AND THEIR PET CAST ALL SPELLS

to clearifly, some spells are 35m , some are like 20 *****increased by troub buff that increases group member spell range by 5, this makes it 25 the closest range making jousting still effective

3 or 4 -35 m spells

3 - 20 m spells

read FYI

=) [haxXoreD by Summona Purple'gorilla]

<3 bring back the humptic w/e thing in ferrott pet that was soooo kewl

All pet spells are 30 metres.

djbox75 · 01-27-2007, 08:00 PM

Meleeing mage pet is just dumb. They have no melee dps, they have no hit points and them going in to melee is just dumb. Im glad they won't run in anymore. Now maybe they wont die as soon as you cast them on raids.

Hathorym · 01-27-2007, 09:23 PM

This just in: all people who play Conjurors in EQ2 may now cut to the front of the line in any store that sells EQ2."OMG, what? That takes the skill away from standing there and being patient for the check writer in front of us!"You realize, people, that you're complaining about not having to smash buttons. No matter which way you look at it, your "skill" is all about the fact that you smash buttons better than "non-raiders" - effectively bragging that you're better at smashing buttons than "the casuals." Seems to me that you're more angry about the fact that your leet button smashing skills may be challenged by people who aren't as good at smashing buttons. And quite frankly, to complain about something that helps casuals simply because you have raider arrogance is inappropriate.But of course, seeing as it is only my opinion on the subject, I really don't care if you disagree with my assessment of the situation.

Supernova17 · 01-28-2007, 02:40 AM

A: You want button mashing, go play a Wizard or Warlock. There's actually thought and strategy involved with the Summoner class, learning how to manipulate your pet as well as your own "button mashing"B: This isn't about raiders vs casuals. As you can clearly see there are a few raiding people who dislike the change and other raiders who are in favor of the change, right alongside the quote on quote "casuals". However, the overwhelming majority of posters that PLAY A SUMMONER (<< key words here) are in favor of the change.C: No one takes your comments seriously when you post anonymously, because who are we to know whether you actually play a Summoner, well it's really more a change favoring the Conjuror's, or are out for our blood because you feel threatened by our current dps ability.

Traxor789 · 01-28-2007, 02:07 PM

The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy

Renpatsu · 01-28-2007, 05:32 PM

Traxor789 wrote:The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy

Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ...It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink:

Daeloq · 01-28-2007, 08:50 PM

I don't love the change, because it's another way of making the game easier than it already is. I did like the fact that I had to learn when to joust the pet back and forth, time when I was going to use Vehement and Intercede...

When I try to analyze this, I don't see that conj dps will increase, but that it will be easier for more conjs to reach our top potential, giving marginal players the most benefit.

The mage pet doesn't run in until its recast timers are down. When we pull it back while it's timers are down and it's not casting, we're not wasting much casting time so the dps loss isn't great. There is some recast timer overlap where dps is lost - and this is where dps will be increased.

On the other hand, for those who didn't want to take the time to learn to joust, and just dealt with the scout pet or dead mage pets, this change will help immeasureably. They'll be able to set the pet at max range and let it auto-attack to its full potential.

Essentially, half our dps now is auto-attack mode - set the pet and forget it.

The more I think about it, the more OK I am with the principles of the change. I mean, EQ2 is not EQ - it's geared to the more casual gamer and I can understand making the game more accessible to more players. I am concerned that as more conjs are seen doing top end T1 damage, the cries for nerf will come from the rest of the community.

Traxor789 · 01-28-2007, 09:54 PM

Id be in for letting them leave it the same if i could get back that cool ability I had in the original game or in t5 where i could target something and send my pet at it no matter what :smileysad:pet pull ftw

flagg · 01-29-2007, 04:39 AM

/agree Summona :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

dnice74 · 01-29-2007, 08:37 PM

Renpatsu wrote:

Traxor789 wrote:
The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_range

so everyone is happy

Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ...

You would do wise to take your own advice on this. Just because you and a few others are violently opposed to this because you're deathly afraid of a nerf (which is pretty paranoid imo), don't think everyone shares your disdain.

It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink:

It's not easy mode. This entire game is easy mode. But it wil save people the headache of pet-jousting, in addition to all the things they should be doing and paying attention. If you are so bored during raids that this will make it unbearable for you, then bring a book along or something. I don't know why people want to stand in the way of a tedious activity (jousting) being removed. Well actually I do - this chicken-little stuff about the nerf wagon coming through town.

Why don't we see some parses before we are all supposedly buried in clouds, ok?

dnice74 · 01-29-2007, 08:41 PM

Supernova17 wrote:
A: You want button mashing, go play a Wizard or Warlock. There's actually thought and strategy involved with the Summoner class, learning how to manipulate your pet as well as your own "button mashing"

It all boils down to button mashing, dude. Press the buttons in the proper sequence as fast as you can. This isn't playing the piano or anything.

B: This isn't about raiders vs casuals. As you can clearly see there are a few raiding people who dislike the change and other raiders who are in favor of the change, right alongside the quote on quote "casuals". However, the overwhelming majority of posters that PLAY A SUMMONER (<< key words here) are in favor of the change.

Hath had an excellent point, and he is on your side. Why are you arguing with him?

C: No one takes your comments seriously when you post anonymously, because who are we to know whether you actually play a Summoner, well it's really more a change favoring the Conjuror's, or are out for our blood because you feel threatened by our current dps ability.

I don't have time to make up a sig. Does this mean that I write all these posts as a wizard or something?

Renpatsu · 01-30-2007, 07:35 AM

dnice74 wrote:

Renpatsu wrote:

Traxor789 wrote:The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy

Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ...

You would do wise to take your own advice on this. Just because you and a few others are violently opposed to this because you're deathly afraid of a nerf (which is pretty paranoid imo), don't think everyone shares your disdain. It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink:

It's not easy mode. This entire game is easy mode. But it wil save people the headache of pet-jousting, in addition to all the things they should be doing and paying attention. If you are so bored during raids that this will make it unbearable for you, then bring a book along or something. I don't know why people want to stand in the way of a tedious activity (jousting) being removed. Well actually I do - this chicken-little stuff about the nerf wagon coming through town.

Why don't we see some parses before we are all supposedly buried in clouds, ok?

In comparison to Summona who states 'everyone is happy', I am not saying 'none is happy'. Those absolute statements are just worthless, it's a discussion with pro and contra. So your advise is just as much worth.After the change, the raiding conjy exactly plays like a wizard ... exciting, eh ? If I wanted to play a wizard, I would've rolled one. For me personally, with such a change, playing a conjy will be more boring, yes. And yes, I am of the opinion that the mage pet damage will be tuned down, as the mage pet is easier to play as scout pet then and more conjurors will reach top DPS. And this isn't exactly far fetched, because of the very reason that the mage pet is harder to play, the scout pet damage was tuned down quite a bit, while the mage pet damage wasn't touched.

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-29-2007 07:11 PM

big perm · 01-30-2007, 01:19 PM

I think the people not liking this change should look at it like this:

In a group/ raid you want your mages to stay out of melee/ AE range, right? What would it be like in a raid to have to say 'Stay Back' everytime all of your mages ran in to melee the mob? EVERY time, and not just once per mob, but maybe 5 times or so per mob? The tanks, healers, scouts, wouldn't be very happy with all of the mages in the raid i'm guessing. So to be able to say at the beginning of the raid 'Hey, all you mages stay out of melee/ AE range', and have them do it, seems like a good idea to me.

Why this is even an issue, i don't know. The mage pet doesn't run in to melee and die one AE later, taking your conj out of the raid for at least 20 seconds to recast and buff the pet....sounds to me like something everyone in the raid can benefit from.

DobyMT · 01-30-2007, 06:55 PM

big perm wrote:

I think the people not liking this change should look at it like this:

In a group/ raid you want your mages to stay out of melee/ AE range, right? What would it be like in a raid to have to say 'Stay Back' everytime all of your mages ran in to melee the mob? EVERY time, and not just once per mob, but maybe 5 times or so per mob? The tanks, healers, scouts, wouldn't be very happy with all of the mages in the raid i'm guessing. So to be able to say at the beginning of the raid 'Hey, all you mages stay out of melee/ AE range', and have them do it, seems like a good idea to me.

Why this is even an issue, i don't know. The mage pet doesn't run in to melee and die one AE later, taking your conj out of the raid for at least 20 seconds to recast and buff the pet....sounds to me like something everyone in the raid can benefit from.

That 20 seconds is supposed to be our check against insane DPS. Especially in unavoidable AEs and such. Now, as it looks, we might not have that check, which means nerf inc on the Conjuror. Hope everyone is happy for what they wish for....

01-24-2007, 04:12 PM	#61
Draco the Grey Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 258	I'm going to have to agree with Summona here. Experienced raid conjurors will see a modest increase in their DPS at best. It's the poor-mediocre raid conjurors that will see a drastic increase in their dps parse, and that seems to be what a lot of people who don't like the change have a problem with. DobyMT wrote: Traxor789 wrote:I just stated that i see necromancers pulling more aggro then wizards but im not dicussing which is better just that the pet fix really ~~wont~~ will drastically raise the dps parses of exprearienced conjurors.someone else did that

01-24-2007, 04:50 PM	#62
Draco the Grey Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 258	InsertNeko wrote: Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM In the meantime, before the change goes live, a word of advice: Call Servant is your friend. :smileywink:

01-24-2007, 04:55 PM	#63
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Draco the Grey wrote: I'm going to have to agree with Summona here. Experienced raid conjurors will see a modest increase in their DPS at best. It's the poor-mediocre raid conjurors that will see a drastic increase in their dps parse, and that seems to be what a lot of people who don't like the change have a problem with. ... I agree, that those who are skilled in pet usage will see only a modest increase in DPS with LU31, simply, because some time you have to pull the pet back - e.g. because of a damage shield or because a damage/death preventer is not up in an AE fight.The main problem for me is, that it'll be very easy DPS with the mage pet staying ranged, easier than any wizard or warlock is able to earn it. And this will lead to class balancing from my point of view (mage pet damage adjusting). Aggro is simply a non issue for conjurors in a good raid setup, if the mage pet stays alive. And this will be trivialized.When the scout pet damage had been tuned down a couple of LUs before, the developers stated, that the mage pet got higher damage potential, because it's harder to handle and more fragile. And now with LU31 ? Mage pet doing more damage than scout pet and easier to handle as well ? I don't think this will last long.Which arguments do we have to stay on top of the parse after LU31 ? __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-24-2007, 05:45 PM	#65
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Draco the Grey wrote:Come to think of it, if you're outside AOE range, properly positioned behind the mob so that ripostes aren't an issue, and have the AOE's properly timed then jousting amounts to:/pet backoff + Call Servant + /pet attack (after the AOE fires)And this is the m4D Sk1Lzz that you all have your panties in a bunch over??? At least it's enough skill needed to make average conjurors parse very low with mage pet or even force them to switch to scout pet because they can't handle. Not to worry about the pet is one less thing to have to think about, so it's getting easier, you can't argue that.Class DPS is balanced across all board, across all playstyles, across all player capabilities. The DPS spectrum of conjurors is very broad and I think that's the sole reason why the best conjurors in raids are able to battle for #1 parse spot. Because in the end, across all board it's balanced. After LU31, the average damage dealt by conjurors will go up thus causing imbalance. Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-24-2007 04:49 AM __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-24-2007, 06:00 PM	#66
Draco the Grey Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 258	Renpatsu wrote: When the scout pet damage had been tuned down a couple of LUs before, the developers stated, that the mage pet got higher damage potential, because it's harder to handle and more fragile. And now with LU31 ? Mage pet doing more damage than scout pet and easier to handle as well ? I don't think this will last long.Which arguments do we have to stay on top of the parse after LU31 ? If that was their reasoning at the time, then I can see how that might be a cause for concern. I guess since I started playing back in the days when our DPS pets were useless and the tank pet was terrible at holding aggro against linked mobs, I have trouble getting all that worked up about the various adjustments the devs have made since fixing us in LU13.

01-24-2007, 05:33 PM	#64
Draco the Grey Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 258	Come to think of it, if you're outside AOE range, properly positioned behind the mob so that ripostes aren't an issue, and have the AOE's properly timed then jousting amounts to:/pet backoff + Call Servant + /pet attack (after the AOE fires)And this is the m4D Sk1Lzz that you all have your panties in a bunch over???

01-24-2007, 06:17 PM	#67
Eniwyn Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 71	Indeed this is changes, but do anyone have a link for this change Anyone got an idea when its going to hit test or Live?

01-25-2007, 09:48 AM	#68
dnice74 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 336	Traxor789 wrote: Im at my peace btw with the necro vs conj diffrence , this benifits both classes but more so on the conjuror side. so thats why Yes, you have been much better lately. Thank you.

01-25-2007, 10:48 PM	#69
Pleiades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	In the Testing Update Notes all I can see is... * Pets * Name and Chat Bubble settings for pets are now inherited from their owners and will not behave like NPC’s. Pets no longer have problems attacking while on the stairs. Adjusting the behavior of your pet will now persist through zoning. What about the change that started this thread? A fix such that the mage pet does run into melee range? Sony, this fix is an essential and needed improvement; please ensure this makes it into the game...

01-26-2007, 12:09 AM	#70
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	No it isn't.It is a widely desired improvement, provided there are not DPS damaging repercussions following it's implimentation.It is certainly not essential or needed.Is there anyone here not able to get to the top of the parse right now? . . . . class? . . . . . anyone? . . . . . Bueller?crickets __________________

01-26-2007, 01:14 AM	#71
leannel Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 121	I always considered the mage pet running in close to mobs a "bug", since mages are supposed to cast and fight from a distance, end of story. Think about it, if you saw a wizard in a group/raid running in to hit a mob with a dagger everyone would think he's nuts and didn't know how to play his class. It's about time they fixed this; Please SOE make this change!

01-26-2007, 02:44 AM	#72
DobyMT Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 568	leannel wrote: I always considered the mage pet running in close to mobs a "bug", since mages are supposed to cast and fight from a distance, end of story. Think about it, if you saw a wizard in a group/raid running in to hit a mob with a dagger everyone would think he's nuts and didn't know how to play his class. It's about time they fixed this; Please SOE make this change! Hmmm I always see our mages running in and meleeing, especially Wizards on long recast waits. Plus they have a spell or 2 the requires them in melee range, so why not smack it a little bit? The Mage pet was perfect where it was, and changing it is going to bring Hellfire and Brimstone down on our class from EVERY other class.

01-26-2007, 11:58 AM	#73
K3mik4l Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 213	Even if they only fix the pet not being able to attack issue with terrain elevation I can hardly wait for the next GU Oh, and without a troub, it's not uncommon that I'm not at the top of the parse. With troub however... mana/lifeburn still get wizards and necros to the top.

01-26-2007, 04:53 PM	#74
Ickky Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 60	This change to the pet is going to be a toggle, u can have it on or off, up to each individual. You wanna joust then u can, u dont wanna joust then dont. If they nerf the Mage pets damage because of this then I do not want this to go live. However if it is a toggle and the damage goes up if u turn it off and the damage goes down if u turn it on then noone is going to use it so it becomes useless as everyone will keep it turned off to get max damage. I'm hoping that SoE will not nerf the damage as we need a little love and this is it. I would think that SoE would inform us if a nerf goes thru because it will become apparent very quickly to us Conjurors that they have nerfed the Mage pet, Ye Gods we waited a long time for this to happen, and yes I always considerd this a bug as well. The Mage pet only runs in when his timers are down as soon as they are up he starts casting again. So what is the difference, apart from it dieing. If its stood next to the mob it will cast when its timers are up, if its standing next to u it will still only cast if its timers are up. The only difference wil be jousting to avoid dying.

01-26-2007, 05:35 PM	#75
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Ickky wrote: This change to the pet is going to be a toggle, u can have it on or off, up to each individual. You wanna joust then u can, u dont wanna joust then dont. If they nerf the Mage pets damage because of this then I do not want this to go live. However if it is a toggle and the damage goes up if u turn it off and the damage goes down if u turn it on then noone is going to use it so it becomes useless as everyone will keep it turned off to get max damage. I'm hoping that SoE will not nerf the damage as we need a little love and this is it. I would think that SoE would inform us if a nerf goes thru because it will become apparent very quickly to us Conjurors that they have nerfed the Mage pet, Ye Gods we waited a long time for this to happen, and yes I always considerd this a bug as well. The Mage pet only runs in when his timers are down as soon as they are up he starts casting again. So what is the difference, apart from it dieing. If its stood next to the mob it will cast when its timers are up, if its standing next to u it will still only cast if its timers are up. The only difference wil be jousting to avoid dying. Well, making something artifically harder for myself compared to one who doesn't, with roundabout the same outcome, is pretty useless. I am happy to invest skill to get an outcome in damage or so. If the difference doesn't show, what's the point in investing jousting skill ?According to SoE not informing us: Perhaps they don't even plan to decrease the damage now, but the other classes will urge SoE to do so. Imagine a Necro with Lifeburn/Undead Tide running, in FD (whereas FD is not even necessary with a guardian as tank) with mage pet out happily casting without it dieing - that's just the extreme example of summoners getting a high benefit of this.And concerning your last lines ... well, the pet dieing is the biggest downside to our DPS. The 'fear' to lose your pet and knowing that the mob will come right for you if it does, is an essential part of being a summoner for me. Sometimes it's a gamble: will the mob AE go off or not - shall I risk the mage pet being close or not ? Especially for those rare AEs. Furthermore, every pull back of the pet costs DPS, it's not much, but it is a bit. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-26-2007, 09:38 PM	#76
Traxor789 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 214	ok , i was wrong , screen shot this for future points where ive been wrong.Conjurors will still joust sometimes , and they can range like they should have been the whole time. class balance , conjuror - necro Message Edited by Traxor789 on 01-26-2007 02:38 PM __________________

01-26-2007, 10:29 PM	#77
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Traxor789 wrote: there is an awesome benefit to having a mage pet joust or stay back, Lets face it. Fights like matron, where your doing your job, casting all out, standing in mid range or where ever you stand on the range based ae, Your pet doesnt need to joust , you cant joust that ae. other fights you have to joust , and its wise you dont stand in ae range and he needs to run in to hit all of his spells FYI NO CONJURORS WONT BE ABLE TO SIT AT MAX RANGE AND THEIR PET CAST ALL SPELLS to clearifly, some spells are 35m , some are like 20 *****increased by troub buff that increases group member spell range by 5, this makes it 25 the closest range making jousting still effective 3 or 4 -35 m spells 3 - 20 m spells read FYI =) [haxXoreD by Summona Purple'gorilla] <3 bring back the humptic w/e thing in ferrott pet that was soooo kewl All pet spells are 30 metres. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-27-2007, 08:00 PM	#78
djbox75 Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1	Meleeing mage pet is just dumb. They have no melee dps, they have no hit points and them going in to melee is just dumb. Im glad they won't run in anymore. Now maybe they wont die as soon as you cast them on raids. __________________

01-27-2007, 09:23 PM	#79
Hathorym Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 19	This just in: all people who play Conjurors in EQ2 may now cut to the front of the line in any store that sells EQ2."OMG, what? That takes the skill away from standing there and being patient for the check writer in front of us!"You realize, people, that you're complaining about not having to smash buttons. No matter which way you look at it, your "skill" is all about the fact that you smash buttons better than "non-raiders" - effectively bragging that you're better at smashing buttons than "the casuals." Seems to me that you're more angry about the fact that your leet button smashing skills may be challenged by people who aren't as good at smashing buttons. And quite frankly, to complain about something that helps casuals simply because you have raider arrogance is inappropriate.But of course, seeing as it is only my opinion on the subject, I really don't care if you disagree with my assessment of the situation.

01-28-2007, 02:40 AM	#80
Supernova17 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,317	A: You want button mashing, go play a Wizard or Warlock. There's actually thought and strategy involved with the Summoner class, learning how to manipulate your pet as well as your own "button mashing"B: This isn't about raiders vs casuals. As you can clearly see there are a few raiding people who dislike the change and other raiders who are in favor of the change, right alongside the quote on quote "casuals". However, the overwhelming majority of posters that PLAY A SUMMONER (<< key words here) are in favor of the change.C: No one takes your comments seriously when you post anonymously, because who are we to know whether you actually play a Summoner, well it's really more a change favoring the Conjuror's, or are out for our blood because you feel threatened by our current dps ability.

01-28-2007, 02:07 PM	#81
Traxor789 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 214	The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy __________________

01-28-2007, 05:32 PM	#82
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Traxor789 wrote:The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ...It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink: __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-28-2007, 08:50 PM	#83
Daeloq Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	I don't love the change, because it's another way of making the game easier than it already is. I did like the fact that I had to learn when to joust the pet back and forth, time when I was going to use Vehement and Intercede... When I try to analyze this, I don't see that conj dps will increase, but that it will be easier for more conjs to reach our top potential, giving marginal players the most benefit. The mage pet doesn't run in until its recast timers are down. When we pull it back while it's timers are down and it's not casting, we're not wasting much casting time so the dps loss isn't great. There is some recast timer overlap where dps is lost - and this is where dps will be increased. On the other hand, for those who didn't want to take the time to learn to joust, and just dealt with the scout pet or dead mage pets, this change will help immeasureably. They'll be able to set the pet at max range and let it auto-attack to its full potential. Essentially, half our dps now is auto-attack mode - set the pet and forget it. The more I think about it, the more OK I am with the principles of the change. I mean, EQ2 is not EQ - it's geared to the more casual gamer and I can understand making the game more accessible to more players. I am concerned that as more conjs are seen doing top end T1 damage, the cries for nerf will come from the rest of the community.

01-28-2007, 09:54 PM	#84
Traxor789 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 214	Id be in for letting them leave it the same if i could get back that cool ability I had in the original game or in t5 where i could target something and send my pet at it no matter what :smileysad:pet pull ftw __________________

01-29-2007, 04:39 AM	#85
flagg General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7	/agree Summona :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

01-29-2007, 08:37 PM	#86
dnice74 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 336	Renpatsu wrote: Traxor789 wrote: The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_range so everyone is happy Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ... You would do wise to take your own advice on this. Just because you and a few others are violently opposed to this because you're deathly afraid of a nerf (which is pretty paranoid imo), don't think everyone shares your disdain. It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink: It's not easy mode. This entire game is easy mode. But it wil save people the headache of pet-jousting, in addition to all the things they should be doing and paying attention. If you are so bored during raids that this will make it unbearable for you, then bring a book along or something. I don't know why people want to stand in the way of a tedious activity (jousting) being removed. Well actually I do - this chicken-little stuff about the nerf wagon coming through town. Why don't we see some parses before we are all supposedly buried in clouds, ok?

01-29-2007, 08:41 PM	#87
dnice74 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 336	Supernova17 wrote: A: You want button mashing, go play a Wizard or Warlock. There's actually thought and strategy involved with the Summoner class, learning how to manipulate your pet as well as your own "button mashing" It all boils down to button mashing, dude. Press the buttons in the proper sequence as fast as you can. This isn't playing the piano or anything. B: This isn't about raiders vs casuals. As you can clearly see there are a few raiding people who dislike the change and other raiders who are in favor of the change, right alongside the quote on quote "casuals". However, the overwhelming majority of posters that PLAY A SUMMONER (<< key words here) are in favor of the change. Hath had an excellent point, and he is on your side. Why are you arguing with him? C: No one takes your comments seriously when you post anonymously, because who are we to know whether you actually play a Summoner, well it's really more a change favoring the Conjuror's, or are out for our blood because you feel threatened by our current dps ability. I don't have time to make up a sig. Does this mean that I write all these posts as a wizard or something?

01-30-2007, 07:35 AM	#88
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	dnice74 wrote: Renpatsu wrote: Traxor789 wrote:The way I understand it , they are making it where you can leave your pet how it is or /pet_melee or ranged /pet_rangeso everyone is happy Before you post something like 'so everyone is happy' be sure, that you read the posts in this thread ... You would do wise to take your own advice on this. Just because you and a few others are violently opposed to this because you're deathly afraid of a nerf (which is pretty paranoid imo), don't think everyone shares your disdain. It's easy mode for conjy and my bet is on mage pet balancing if this goes live: 'so everyone is happy' :smileywink: It's not easy mode. This entire game is easy mode. But it wil save people the headache of pet-jousting, in addition to all the things they should be doing and paying attention. If you are so bored during raids that this will make it unbearable for you, then bring a book along or something. I don't know why people want to stand in the way of a tedious activity (jousting) being removed. Well actually I do - this chicken-little stuff about the nerf wagon coming through town. Why don't we see some parses before we are all supposedly buried in clouds, ok? In comparison to Summona who states 'everyone is happy', I am not saying 'none is happy'. Those absolute statements are just worthless, it's a discussion with pro and contra. So your advise is just as much worth.After the change, the raiding conjy exactly plays like a wizard ... exciting, eh ? If I wanted to play a wizard, I would've rolled one. For me personally, with such a change, playing a conjy will be more boring, yes. And yes, I am of the opinion that the mage pet damage will be tuned down, as the mage pet is easier to play as scout pet then and more conjurors will reach top DPS. And this isn't exactly far fetched, because of the very reason that the mage pet is harder to play, the scout pet damage was tuned down quite a bit, while the mage pet damage wasn't touched. Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-29-2007 07:11 PM __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-30-2007, 01:19 PM	#89
big perm Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 60	I think the people not liking this change should look at it like this: In a group/ raid you want your mages to stay out of melee/ AE range, right? What would it be like in a raid to have to say 'Stay Back' everytime all of your mages ran in to melee the mob? EVERY time, and not just once per mob, but maybe 5 times or so per mob? The tanks, healers, scouts, wouldn't be very happy with all of the mages in the raid i'm guessing. So to be able to say at the beginning of the raid 'Hey, all you mages stay out of melee/ AE range', and have them do it, seems like a good idea to me. Why this is even an issue, i don't know. The mage pet doesn't run in to melee and die one AE later, taking your conj out of the raid for at least 20 seconds to recast and buff the pet....sounds to me like something everyone in the raid can benefit from. __________________

01-30-2007, 06:55 PM	#90
DobyMT Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 568	big perm wrote: I think the people not liking this change should look at it like this: In a group/ raid you want your mages to stay out of melee/ AE range, right? What would it be like in a raid to have to say 'Stay Back' everytime all of your mages ran in to melee the mob? EVERY time, and not just once per mob, but maybe 5 times or so per mob? The tanks, healers, scouts, wouldn't be very happy with all of the mages in the raid i'm guessing. So to be able to say at the beginning of the raid 'Hey, all you mages stay out of melee/ AE range', and have them do it, seems like a good idea to me. Why this is even an issue, i don't know. The mage pet doesn't run in to melee and die one AE later, taking your conj out of the raid for at least 20 seconds to recast and buff the pet....sounds to me like something everyone in the raid can benefit from. That 20 seconds is supposed to be our check against insane DPS. Especially in unavoidable AEs and such. Now, as it looks, we might not have that check, which means nerf inc on the Conjuror. Hope everyone is happy for what they wish for....