LU31, pet changes

Krilinye · 01-20-2007, 06:01 AM

"and caster pets have learned to stand back and cast instead of running into melee range"

Seems like Conjurors are now degraded to slacker_class_01..

Sorry, but, imo, i dont like that change. It makes something that is already rather easy, even more easy! *sigh*

tamikasipke · 01-20-2007, 06:15 AM

I dont agree. Less button clicking (macroing, key pressing, etc) with commanding pet back because it doesnt have spells to cast and has to run to mob = more time to make bigger dps.

Fortai · 01-20-2007, 06:49 AM

I thought pets running in was not a bug. I thought it was put in with DoF to keep our DPS down a little ("magic leash" AA used to actually keep the pet from running in, hence the name, in DOF beta, before it was changed to a hate reduction). This is a good overall change though, as it gets rid of a very big annoyance. Unfortunately I think this change could draw out the usual complainers, when some summoners see a slight DPS increase on raids, because they no longer have to joust, and time intervention, gem. In any case, the mage pet should have never used melee attack unless it is out of power. That was a huge annoyance and I'm glad it's being fixed.

Message Edited by liquidsol on 01-19-2007 05:51 PM

Daeloq · 01-20-2007, 07:34 AM

I do believe the mage pet ran in on purpose - as mentioned above, Magic Leash was purposely changed during testing so that the pet would run in. I presume enough people have complained and requested this change, that the devs have relented and made it happen.

Caliga · 01-20-2007, 08:55 AM

I like the change. I think its silly for mage pets to run in and melee. Real mages don't do that.

Nefeticaz · 01-20-2007, 10:26 AM

Dont like that change at all. it was nice ta actually hav ta watch wat the pet was doin an hav ta actually work hard ta keep him alive and keep dps up. But with the new changes its gonna make it jus too easy tbh. An no, real mages dont charge in, but this is a pet not a real mage. if u say attack he will attack with watever he can till he is dead or u say stop :>

Message Edited by Nefeticus on 01-19-2007 09:26 PM

Supernova17 · 01-20-2007, 11:24 AM

I support this change completely.I stand back and nuke to do my dps, Sorcerors and Enchanters stand back to do their damage. My *Mage* pet should act like a Mage and know it's place in the world and stay back nuking!!!

Traxor789 · 01-20-2007, 12:58 PM

Love this change.

SoEAnd we've been working on pet behavior! Pets will attack more reliably on stairs, and caster pets have learned to stand back and cast instead of running into melee range. Plus, adjusting the behavior of your pet will now properly persist though zoning.

wow i mean wowThank you soeI think this was directly in view of the conjuror seeing how we have the better mage pet. SoE started to make this an AA in kos beta i heared but never put it in. Will it make me lazy to back off my pet ??? lol no , he doesnt do any more dps, when he runs in if a spell comes up he will stop to cast it , he only runs in because there are no spells up. well.....so what if he is standing back with us. IT MAKES BUBBLE USEFULL . The pet doesnt do more dps. Its not over powerd. plus its less hastle of keeping a very weak pet alive. <3 you sony

Themaginator · 01-20-2007, 01:11 PM

errrr i like i dont see a reason not to...stupid whiners

K3mik4l · 01-20-2007, 03:44 PM

I like it, can't wait for it, hope it works too when it hits SMILEY

Renpatsu · 01-20-2007, 05:06 PM

I don't really like this change either.Right now there is a remarkable DPS distance between the players who just send the pet, players who always pull the pet back and those who actually are able to handle the pet very well (1k+ DPS distance). This distance will be gone (not completely, but only a small margin will be left) and allows every player gain high DPS with mage pet - pet handling skill is a variable taken out.I think that this will definetely lead to our damage being toned down with one of the updates after LU31. Simply because our mage pet won't die to AEs that often anymore and because of that there won't be any conjurors who tone the average damage made by conjys down. There are summoners out there who do 400 DPS on raids because they can't handle the mage pet - which often forces them to take scout pet, which does less damage. And from my point of view, only due to those summoners we're allowed to hit #1 spot on raid parses with mage pet.

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-20-2007 04:21 AM

Krilinye · 01-20-2007, 06:06 PM

Themaginator wrote:
errrr i like i dont see a reason not to...stupid whiners

Very contructive i must admit..

You do realise that people have different opinions and not everyone thinks what you think? Just because you believe your opinion is the right one doesnt mean that everyone else believes that. I know that im not whining, im stating my opinion.

flagg · 01-21-2007, 05:16 AM

Renpatsu , you don't like this change?

I have used mage pet and will do. But I'm doubt that you do raiding.

..............................Why Conjurors need have a cramp when wizards' falling into a doze?

Renpatsu · 01-21-2007, 05:41 AM

flagges wrote:

Renpatsu , you don't like this change?

I have used mage pet and will do. But I'm doubt that you do raiding.

..............................Why Conjurors need have a cramp when wizards' falling into a doze?

I do raid frequently.With this change, playing with the mage pet will lose a skill component. I doubt that playing my conjy after LU31 will make as much fun as before. With LU31 every - excuse the expression - idiot can keep the mage pet alive.

Supernova17 · 01-21-2007, 06:57 AM

Those crappy Conjuror's that can't keep their pet alive? I wouldn't be too worried about them, because if they truely are that bad that they still won't get alot out of their dps. I've met bad Conj's that don't cast spells for the life of them, cast in a bad or random order that makes no sense or use certian spells too late to increase their dps (ie Aq Horde at 20% on a heroic that dies 6 seconds later). The only threat from Conj's to the dps of Wizards and Warlocks is the player's skill, thier masters, group, gear and aa setups. This is nothing new.I like this change.

Fortai · 01-21-2007, 04:35 PM

UPDATE from Lyndro:"Its a toggle, so it'll only affect your pet if you want it to. There are two new commands /pet ranged and /pet melee. /pet range makes the pet opt to stay out of melee range, /pet melee is the default behavior the pet currently has."Now everybody's happy..... I think...

Draco the Grey · 01-21-2007, 05:14 PM

liquidsol wrote:
UPDATE from Lyndro:

"Its a toggle, so it'll only affect your pet if you want it to. There are two new commands /pet ranged and /pet melee. /pet range makes the pet opt to stay out of melee range, /pet melee is the default behavior the pet currently has."

Now everybody's happy..... I think...

No doubt those that were unhappy with this change will now just continue to joust to their heart's content. :smileywink:

de lori · 01-21-2007, 06:37 PM

As far as i can see....keeping out of Melee range is not the same as keeping out of AE range.....I think there may still be an element of skill involved in keeping the mage pet alive.....at least i hope so.... i have always considered pet control one of the abilities that make a good conj

InsertNeko · 01-21-2007, 07:46 PM

Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat. SMILEY

Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM

Renpatsu · 01-21-2007, 11:13 PM

InsertNeko wrote:
Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat.
Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM

So everyone who doesn't like a change is automatically whining ? This is a forum which is about discussing topics, so there are people in favor and people opposed to changes/topics. Is everyone in favor of changes automatically a fangirl/fanboy ? Pretty weak argument.I brought up reasons why I don't like the change and for me they're pretty valid. For me and some others, a mage pet running to melee was there to balance DPS, to make the mage pet harder to play than scout pet, since the mage pet got higher damage potential. There is a skill variable taken out, which basically makes the conjy a wizard from playability standpoint, if you don't have to care about the pet anymore. I personally think, that it is great to have player skill presented that obviously as conjy, like it is currently. Of course there will be still a difference, but it'll be much lower.From my point of view, as I wrote before, we're allowed to do #1 DPS (and yes we do several times), because you have to be very skilled in both casting order (which e.g. wizards have to do as well) and skilled in pet handling to reach this (and no, pulling the pet back everytime to always keep the pet beside you is not skilled pet handling). Our hate is split between pet and conjy and the only threat to a conjy is a pet dieing. With this change I suspect no conjy having problems to keep the mage pet up and thus making it trivial not to die.Edit to clarify: I am obviously speaking from a raiders point of view.

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-21-2007 10:26 AM

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-21-2007 10:33 AM

DobyMT · 01-22-2007, 07:02 AM

To be honest though, expect a HUGE nerf on the mage pet. SoE devs will not allow us an easy button, no matter what. I expect a drastic drop in Mage pet dmg spells and a HUGE increase in pet casting times. They aren't just going to give us a pet stay back option.

Squall Leonhea · 01-22-2007, 08:31 AM

DobyMT wrote:
To be honest though, expect a HUGE nerf on the mage pet. SoE devs will not allow us an easy button, no matter what. I expect a drastic drop in Mage pet dmg spells and a HUGE increase in pet casting times. They aren't just going to give us a pet stay back option.

If thats their intention, than they should leave the pet as it is. I very much prefer a pet that can do nice damage but I have to work for it than a pet that just stands their and does crap damage. But we were tuned down quite a lot in the past. I think we are where we belong. The nerfs in the past were necessary, our damage was quite insane but at the moment we are even with other dd classes (with even spells, aa, equipment, skill...). In my Guild I'm often nr. 1, but our assassin and our swashi can give a hard time. Everyone shines at a different encounter.

dnice74 · 01-22-2007, 11:58 AM

InsertNeko wrote:
Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about.

Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining.

It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat.

Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-200709:47 AM

Casting shards, pulling people with Coh, mashing buttons to max DPS, saccing pet for mana or as an emergency to save people and then rebuffing....Hisenflaye is 100% correct. If you are bored as a raiding mage because of this, you are lazy.

Appalling. How can you people complain about this? This has been broken since EQ1, for God's sake.

DobyMT · 01-22-2007, 12:29 PM

dnice74 wrote:

InsertNeko wrote:
Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about.

Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining.

It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat.

Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-200709:47 AM

Casting shards, pulling people with Coh, mashing buttons to max DPS, saccing pet for mana or as an emergency to save people and then rebuffing....Hisenflaye is 100% correct. If you are bored as a raiding mage because of this, you are lazy.

Appalling. How can you people complain about this? This has been broken since EQ1, for God's sake.

Then you don't understand what raiders want. We don't WANT an easy button. My mage pet does equal damage to most other classes, and that's WHEN I HAVE TO CONTROL HIM. Take that away, no AEs, which means that overall, a TON more dps, and anyone looking forward to this change is looking for an easier way to play.

Zarlaan · 01-22-2007, 01:52 PM

I don't think jousting the mage pet is much indication of any "skill" so much as it is an indicator of what conjuror is just paying attention. I'll welcome the change as it just means my fingers won't get as sore switching between my hotkey bars as often. The mage pet was never really intended to even been in melee range in the first place. Thats why at one point they even considered giving us an AA to do it. I don't think anybody here would be complaining saying, "Hey, I'm not buying that AA because its easy mode i have too much skill!" if they put it in. People would probably be arguing saying they shouldn't have to pay for an AA for mage pet to have the ability to stay at range.I'm not trying to say to anybody don't complain about it etc. It wouldn't bother me either way they decide to adjust it. I'm just simply trying to say imho its not that big of an indicator of "skill" to playing the class. I think organizing your spells/timers and effects to maxamize efficiency and optimizing your gear/resists holds heavier weight.I most certainly do agree that if they do go forward with the change that they don't nerf the mage pet in any manner. If they are going to nerf then just leave the range issue as is.

Thmy · 01-22-2007, 02:53 PM

NO hi level raiding guild is going to let a Conj be LAZY on a raid.

Renpatsu · 01-22-2007, 03:19 PM

Zarlaan wrote:... I think organizing your spells/timers and effects to maxamize efficiency and optimizing your gear/resists holds heavier weight. ...

Losing the pet to an AE got the heaviest weight to your DPS.Are you all really surprised, that there are many conjurors who aren't able to joust correctly or use pet damage/death preventer correctly (at the right time) ? Watching the pet is a demanding job, as you have to watch your spell cast as well (e.g. EV, because of not to waste any proc) and to keep an eye to other surroundings (e.g. chat for essence call). If you always do push the 'back off' button to keep the mage pet always at your side, then you're losing quite some damage there. Yes it is skill required to control the mage pet at best.The change will probably increase the damage dealt by conjurors by a ton on average. Those who use scout pet because they're too lazy for the mage pet handling or just aren't able to keep the mage pet alive will now be able to switch back to mage pet. The mage pet will probably be easier to play and do more damage than the scout pet ? Lets open a fortune cookie to see what it tells about mage pet balancing in the future.

Zarlaan wrote:... I most certainly do agree that if they do go forward with the change that they don't nerf the mage pet in any manner. If they are going to nerf then just leave the range issue as is. ...

If SoE isn't already thinking of this, the attention we get on the boards will be enough to get SoE thinking about this.

Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-22-2007 02:39 AM

Eniwyn · 01-22-2007, 04:16 PM

IMO, i really like the change to make the Pet stay in one place. It is a casterpet, not melee pet.

Finally SOE give some love to the Conjys.

We have enough work as it is. CoH, Shards, Sacrificing pets for power, resummoning and Dps, among other things.

Wizards have only themselves to take care of. They are purely dps' ers. Cant say they do so more than us, other than Dps. Just my oppinion.

Anyway, it would be nice to have an option to turn melee off or on, tho.

Cant wait till the change is Live.

Ooooh, and the pets attack in the stairs again...and i really thought my pet was allergic to mobs in stairs.

Renpatsu · 01-22-2007, 04:25 PM

Eniwyn wrote:
IMO, i really like the change to make the Pet stay in one place. It is a casterpet, not melee pet.

Finally SOE give some love to the Conjys.

We have enough work as it is. CoH, Shards, Sacrificing pets for power, resummoning and Dps, among other things.

Wizards have only themselves to take care of. They are purely dps' ers. Cant say they do so more than us, other than Dps. Just my oppinion.

Anyway, it would be nice to have an option to turn melee off or on, tho.

Cant wait till the change is Live.

Ooooh, and the pets attack in the stairs again...and i really thought my pet was allergic to mobs in stairs.

So from your point of view we have more utility than a wizard and yet we're doing more DPS than a wizard ? And now with less effort involved ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see an upcoming problem there.

Eniwyn · 01-22-2007, 04:32 PM

So from your point of view we have more utility than a wizard and yet we're doing more DPS than a wizard ? And now with less effort involved ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see an upcoming problem there.

Would like to see how this change really turns out. Conj beeing top of parses, if you know how to play your class, making it even better, hmm...

01-20-2007, 06:15 AM	#2
tamikasipke Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16	I dont agree. Less button clicking (macroing, key pressing, etc) with commanding pet back because it doesnt have spells to cast and has to run to mob = more time to make bigger dps. __________________

01-20-2007, 06:49 AM	#3
Fortai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 151	I thought pets running in was not a bug. I thought it was put in with DoF to keep our DPS down a little ("magic leash" AA used to actually keep the pet from running in, hence the name, in DOF beta, before it was changed to a hate reduction). This is a good overall change though, as it gets rid of a very big annoyance. Unfortunately I think this change could draw out the usual complainers, when some summoners see a slight DPS increase on raids, because they no longer have to joust, and time intervention, gem. In any case, the mage pet should have never used melee attack unless it is out of power. That was a huge annoyance and I'm glad it's being fixed. Message Edited by liquidsol on 01-19-2007 05:51 PM __________________

01-20-2007, 08:55 AM	#5
Caliga Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 355	I like the change. I think its silly for mage pets to run in and melee. Real mages don't do that. __________________

01-20-2007, 12:58 PM	#8
Traxor789 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 214	Love this change. SoEAnd we've been working on pet behavior! Pets will attack more reliably on stairs, and caster pets have learned to stand back and cast instead of running into melee range. Plus, adjusting the behavior of your pet will now properly persist though zoning. wow i mean wowThank you soeI think this was directly in view of the conjuror seeing how we have the better mage pet. SoE started to make this an AA in kos beta i heared but never put it in. Will it make me lazy to back off my pet ??? lol no , he doesnt do any more dps, when he runs in if a spell comes up he will stop to cast it , he only runs in because there are no spells up. well.....so what if he is standing back with us. IT MAKES BUBBLE USEFULL . The pet doesnt do more dps. Its not over powerd. plus its less hastle of keeping a very weak pet alive. <3 you sony __________________

01-20-2007, 05:06 PM	#11
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	I don't really like this change either.Right now there is a remarkable DPS distance between the players who just send the pet, players who always pull the pet back and those who actually are able to handle the pet very well (1k+ DPS distance). This distance will be gone (not completely, but only a small margin will be left) and allows every player gain high DPS with mage pet - pet handling skill is a variable taken out.I think that this will definetely lead to our damage being toned down with one of the updates after LU31. Simply because our mage pet won't die to AEs that often anymore and because of that there won't be any conjurors who tone the average damage made by conjys down. There are summoners out there who do 400 DPS on raids because they can't handle the mage pet - which often forces them to take scout pet, which does less damage. And from my point of view, only due to those summoners we're allowed to hit #1 spot on raid parses with mage pet. Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-20-2007 04:21 AM __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-20-2007, 06:01 AM	#1
Krilinye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 274	"and caster pets have learned to stand back and cast instead of running into melee range" Seems like Conjurors are now degraded to slacker_class_01.. Sorry, but, imo, i dont like that change. It makes something that is already rather easy, even more easy! sigh __________________ To alcohol! The cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems!

01-20-2007, 07:34 AM	#4
Daeloq Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	I do believe the mage pet ran in on purpose - as mentioned above, Magic Leash was purposely changed during testing so that the pet would run in. I presume enough people have complained and requested this change, that the devs have relented and made it happen.

01-20-2007, 10:26 AM	#6
Nefeticaz Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8	Dont like that change at all. it was nice ta actually hav ta watch wat the pet was doin an hav ta actually work hard ta keep him alive and keep dps up. But with the new changes its gonna make it jus too easy tbh. An no, real mages dont charge in, but this is a pet not a real mage. if u say attack he will attack with watever he can till he is dead or u say stop :> Message Edited by Nefeticus on 01-19-2007 09:26 PM

01-20-2007, 11:24 AM	#7
Supernova17 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,317	I support this change completely.I stand back and nuke to do my dps, Sorcerors and Enchanters stand back to do their damage. My Mage pet should act like a Mage and know it's place in the world and stay back nuking!!!

01-20-2007, 01:11 PM	#9
Themaginator Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 833	errrr i like i dont see a reason not to...stupid whiners

01-20-2007, 03:44 PM	#10
K3mik4l Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 213	I like it, can't wait for it, hope it works too when it hits

01-20-2007, 06:06 PM	#12
Krilinye Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 274	Themaginator wrote: errrr i like i dont see a reason not to...stupid whiners Very contructive i must admit.. You do realise that people have different opinions and not everyone thinks what you think? Just because you believe your opinion is the right one doesnt mean that everyone else believes that. I know that im not whining, im stating my opinion. __________________ To alcohol! The cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems!

01-21-2007, 05:16 AM	#13
flagg General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7	Renpatsu , you don't like this change? I have used mage pet and will do. But I'm doubt that you do raiding. ..............................Why Conjurors need have a cramp when wizards' falling into a doze?

01-21-2007, 05:41 AM	#14
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	flagges wrote: Renpatsu , you don't like this change? I have used mage pet and will do. But I'm doubt that you do raiding. ..............................Why Conjurors need have a cramp when wizards' falling into a doze? I do raid frequently.With this change, playing with the mage pet will lose a skill component. I doubt that playing my conjy after LU31 will make as much fun as before. With LU31 every - excuse the expression - idiot can keep the mage pet alive. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-21-2007, 06:57 AM	#15
Supernova17 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,317	Those crappy Conjuror's that can't keep their pet alive? I wouldn't be too worried about them, because if they truely are that bad that they still won't get alot out of their dps. I've met bad Conj's that don't cast spells for the life of them, cast in a bad or random order that makes no sense or use certian spells too late to increase their dps (ie Aq Horde at 20% on a heroic that dies 6 seconds later). The only threat from Conj's to the dps of Wizards and Warlocks is the player's skill, thier masters, group, gear and aa setups. This is nothing new.I like this change.

01-21-2007, 04:35 PM	#16
Fortai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 151	UPDATE from Lyndro:"Its a toggle, so it'll only affect your pet if you want it to. There are two new commands /pet ranged and /pet melee. /pet range makes the pet opt to stay out of melee range, /pet melee is the default behavior the pet currently has."Now everybody's happy..... I think... __________________

01-21-2007, 05:14 PM	#17
Draco the Grey Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 258	liquidsol wrote: UPDATE from Lyndro: "Its a toggle, so it'll only affect your pet if you want it to. There are two new commands /pet ranged and /pet melee. /pet range makes the pet opt to stay out of melee range, /pet melee is the default behavior the pet currently has." Now everybody's happy..... I think... No doubt those that were unhappy with this change will now just continue to joust to their heart's content. :smileywink:

01-21-2007, 06:37 PM	#18
de lori General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 208	As far as i can see....keeping out of Melee range is not the same as keeping out of AE range.....I think there may still be an element of skill involved in keeping the mage pet alive.....at least i hope so.... i have always considered pet control one of the abilities that make a good conj __________________ Charayne 90/250 Conjuror / Tranquil Rage / Kithicor

01-21-2007, 07:46 PM	#19
InsertNeko Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 227	Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat. Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM __________________

01-21-2007, 11:13 PM	#20
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	InsertNeko wrote: Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat. Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-2007 09:47 AM So everyone who doesn't like a change is automatically whining ? This is a forum which is about discussing topics, so there are people in favor and people opposed to changes/topics. Is everyone in favor of changes automatically a fangirl/fanboy ? Pretty weak argument.I brought up reasons why I don't like the change and for me they're pretty valid. For me and some others, a mage pet running to melee was there to balance DPS, to make the mage pet harder to play than scout pet, since the mage pet got higher damage potential. There is a skill variable taken out, which basically makes the conjy a wizard from playability standpoint, if you don't have to care about the pet anymore. I personally think, that it is great to have player skill presented that obviously as conjy, like it is currently. Of course there will be still a difference, but it'll be much lower.From my point of view, as I wrote before, we're allowed to do #1 DPS (and yes we do several times), because you have to be very skilled in both casting order (which e.g. wizards have to do as well) and skilled in pet handling to reach this (and no, pulling the pet back everytime to always keep the pet beside you is not skilled pet handling). Our hate is split between pet and conjy and the only threat to a conjy is a pet dieing. With this change I suspect no conjy having problems to keep the mage pet up and thus making it trivial not to die.Edit to clarify: I am obviously speaking from a raiders point of view. Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-21-2007 10:26 AM Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-21-2007 10:33 AM __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-22-2007, 07:02 AM	#21
DobyMT Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 568	To be honest though, expect a HUGE nerf on the mage pet. SoE devs will not allow us an easy button, no matter what. I expect a drastic drop in Mage pet dmg spells and a HUGE increase in pet casting times. They aren't just going to give us a pet stay back option.

01-22-2007, 08:31 AM	#22
Squall Leonhea General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 130	DobyMT wrote: To be honest though, expect a HUGE nerf on the mage pet. SoE devs will not allow us an easy button, no matter what. I expect a drastic drop in Mage pet dmg spells and a HUGE increase in pet casting times. They aren't just going to give us a pet stay back option. If thats their intention, than they should leave the pet as it is. I very much prefer a pet that can do nice damage but I have to work for it than a pet that just stands their and does crap damage. But we were tuned down quite a lot in the past. I think we are where we belong. The nerfs in the past were necessary, our damage was quite insane but at the moment we are even with other dd classes (with even spells, aa, equipment, skill...). In my Guild I'm often nr. 1, but our assassin and our swashi can give a hard time. Everyone shines at a different encounter.

01-22-2007, 11:58 AM	#23
dnice74 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 336	InsertNeko wrote: Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat. Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-200709:47 AM Casting shards, pulling people with Coh, mashing buttons to max DPS, saccing pet for mana or as an emergency to save people and then rebuffing....Hisenflaye is 100% correct. If you are bored as a raiding mage because of this, you are lazy. Appalling. How can you people complain about this? This has been broken since EQ1, for God's sake.

01-22-2007, 12:29 PM	#24
DobyMT Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 568	dnice74 wrote: InsertNeko wrote: Sadly, I'm reminded why we as a class get nerfed so much. This is the first time conj as a class have been helped since the disasterous Lu24 destroyed our dps pets. We're getting help fixing what imo was a debilitating bug on our mage pets. Suddenly, with this fix we're the easiest class in the game? Oh man, do you guys even read what you're typing? I also notice it's more non-conj coming into our forums, in hopes of getting us nerfed than actual conj saying anything. Should i come into your forums next time you get a new skill/buff and whine and cry to get you nerfed? you people have no idea what you're talking about. Having to joust a laggy pet that takes 5-10 seconds to stop running into melee range ... having it stand there for 3-4 seconds to put its weapon away. Another 3 seconds to run back to me, and then hit attack and spend another 2 seconds to reattack, only to start the whole scene over in 10-15 seconds. If you're in a raid with a conj after Lu31, you'll be thankful, not whining. It's always something with you guys. I'm always annoyed with sony and their bugs ... but after all these years playing, I'm beginning to think it's you, the whiney [Removed for Content] crybaby players that are eq2's major problem, not soe's nerf bat. Message Edited by InsertNeko on 01-21-200709:47 AM Casting shards, pulling people with Coh, mashing buttons to max DPS, saccing pet for mana or as an emergency to save people and then rebuffing....Hisenflaye is 100% correct. If you are bored as a raiding mage because of this, you are lazy. Appalling. How can you people complain about this? This has been broken since EQ1, for God's sake. Then you don't understand what raiders want. We don't WANT an easy button. My mage pet does equal damage to most other classes, and that's WHEN I HAVE TO CONTROL HIM. Take that away, no AEs, which means that overall, a TON more dps, and anyone looking forward to this change is looking for an easier way to play.

01-22-2007, 01:52 PM	#25
Zarlaan Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15	I don't think jousting the mage pet is much indication of any "skill" so much as it is an indicator of what conjuror is just paying attention. I'll welcome the change as it just means my fingers won't get as sore switching between my hotkey bars as often. The mage pet was never really intended to even been in melee range in the first place. Thats why at one point they even considered giving us an AA to do it. I don't think anybody here would be complaining saying, "Hey, I'm not buying that AA because its easy mode i have too much skill!" if they put it in. People would probably be arguing saying they shouldn't have to pay for an AA for mage pet to have the ability to stay at range.I'm not trying to say to anybody don't complain about it etc. It wouldn't bother me either way they decide to adjust it. I'm just simply trying to say imho its not that big of an indicator of "skill" to playing the class. I think organizing your spells/timers and effects to maxamize efficiency and optimizing your gear/resists holds heavier weight.I most certainly do agree that if they do go forward with the change that they don't nerf the mage pet in any manner. If they are going to nerf then just leave the range issue as is.

01-22-2007, 02:53 PM	#26
Thmy Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 258	NO hi level raiding guild is going to let a Conj be LAZY on a raid.

01-22-2007, 03:19 PM	#27
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Zarlaan wrote:... I think organizing your spells/timers and effects to maxamize efficiency and optimizing your gear/resists holds heavier weight. ... Losing the pet to an AE got the heaviest weight to your DPS.Are you all really surprised, that there are many conjurors who aren't able to joust correctly or use pet damage/death preventer correctly (at the right time) ? Watching the pet is a demanding job, as you have to watch your spell cast as well (e.g. EV, because of not to waste any proc) and to keep an eye to other surroundings (e.g. chat for essence call). If you always do push the 'back off' button to keep the mage pet always at your side, then you're losing quite some damage there. Yes it is skill required to control the mage pet at best.The change will probably increase the damage dealt by conjurors by a ton on average. Those who use scout pet because they're too lazy for the mage pet handling or just aren't able to keep the mage pet alive will now be able to switch back to mage pet. The mage pet will probably be easier to play and do more damage than the scout pet ? Lets open a fortune cookie to see what it tells about mage pet balancing in the future. Zarlaan wrote:... I most certainly do agree that if they do go forward with the change that they don't nerf the mage pet in any manner. If they are going to nerf then just leave the range issue as is. ... If SoE isn't already thinking of this, the attention we get on the boards will be enough to get SoE thinking about this. Message Edited by Renpatsu on 01-22-2007 02:39 AM __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-22-2007, 04:16 PM	#28
Eniwyn Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 71	IMO, i really like the change to make the Pet stay in one place. It is a casterpet, not melee pet. Finally SOE give some love to the Conjys. We have enough work as it is. CoH, Shards, Sacrificing pets for power, resummoning and Dps, among other things. Wizards have only themselves to take care of. They are purely dps' ers. Cant say they do so more than us, other than Dps. Just my oppinion. Anyway, it would be nice to have an option to turn melee off or on, tho. Cant wait till the change is Live. Ooooh, and the pets attack in the stairs again...and i really thought my pet was allergic to mobs in stairs.

01-22-2007, 04:25 PM	#29
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Eniwyn wrote: IMO, i really like the change to make the Pet stay in one place. It is a casterpet, not melee pet. Finally SOE give some love to the Conjys. We have enough work as it is. CoH, Shards, Sacrificing pets for power, resummoning and Dps, among other things. Wizards have only themselves to take care of. They are purely dps' ers. Cant say they do so more than us, other than Dps. Just my oppinion. Anyway, it would be nice to have an option to turn melee off or on, tho. Cant wait till the change is Live. Ooooh, and the pets attack in the stairs again...and i really thought my pet was allergic to mobs in stairs. So from your point of view we have more utility than a wizard and yet we're doing more DPS than a wizard ? And now with less effort involved ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see an upcoming problem there. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

01-22-2007, 04:32 PM	#30
Eniwyn Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 71	So from your point of view we have more utility than a wizard and yet we're doing more DPS than a wizard ? And now with less effort involved ? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see an upcoming problem there. Would like to see how this change really turns out. Conj beeing top of parses, if you know how to play your class, making it even better, hmm...