Is this a sick joke? - Page 2

PcJUNKE · 07-09-2006, 10:18 AM

Furies do get some insane Nukes one spell does like 5k i think...... in response to the starter of the thread 1 rename your pet 2 if your pet is already your name roll a fury if u want their DPS =)

ShreddedWhe · 07-09-2006, 10:49 PM

Threads like this confuse me...the nerf to conjuror dps wasn't bad at all. My RL friend is a conj and his reduction was maybe a few hundred dps, but he's still outdpsing assassins/wizards in our raids. And parsers are kind of fun, and do show if a person is actually playing their toon correctly. Our guild has a dps channel that we post after every raid fight...for trash I would agree its pointless and just for bragging rights, but for named fights its interesting to see what kind of classes do what kind of dps, and pooling the encounters at the end of the raid and seeing overall dps is interesting as well.

juli · 07-10-2006, 06:16 PM

SilverSlayer wrote:

Nope, no one in my guild uses parsers they are pointless.. the point in playing the game is to have FUN not to do math.

And do you have fun when you wipe repeatedly? Or can't kill a mob? Don't you think that having better information to kill a mob rather than have to go away saying "oh well... we can try again next time" would be more fun? Not to mention the uber drops you are missing out on? I am not saying live and die by the parse, I am saying better yourself.

Message Edited by juliev on 07-10-2006 08:16 AM

Divine Pow · 07-10-2006, 10:51 PM

his guild probably doesnt do raids is why they don't use parsers.

This thread did teach me something though - gonna start naming my pets after someone else in my raids probably another necro/conj SMILEY OR even better get them to rename their pets after me

Loranthala · 07-12-2006, 06:48 PM

lol, done that a few times

hahn_ba · 07-23-2006, 07:12 PM

Ishboozor wrote:

SilverSlayer wrote:

How about you people that geek out over math in a video game just quit or better yet, throw out the damned parsers and enjoy the freakiing game and realize that like in life, nothing is fair and balanced and that to do some things you might depend on another class to get you through it.

I don't use parsers and I think they should put all of them on the 3rd party software ban list.

The only time I hear people complaining about damage etc are usually the same people calling for nerfs of other classes and then when it happens they decide to play that class and then complain that the other classes are then overpowered etc.. and the complaining goes on and on forever. I swear I think some of you people are paid by a company to do nothing but moan and complain on game forums to try and ruin a game.

Ok so you dont like parsing and dont mind if you suck or not because you never want to see how your stacking against other players. I like to see where I stand and what I am capable of.

For all you know your the best conjuror world wide or the worst. If your having fun with the way you play being uninformed about wich it is, thats your chioce. I want to try and help my guild out as much as I can so i will continue to parse.

Its always nice to see someone belittling people who want to better themselves and others though.
Message Edited by Ishboozor on 07-07-2006 07:13 AM

Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick.

Renpatsu · 07-24-2006, 12:03 PM

hahn_bard wrote:

...

Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick.

Well, and what do you bring to the raid as summoner ? DPS and utility. If you want to improve in playing a summoner, a damage parser is a very nice tool to optimize the casting order and pet handling. There are many fights which require high DPS values to be successful. If you do less damage than you're able to and the raid failed, how did you contribute to a 'successful' raid again ? When I am able to play better, I contribute to a raid in a better way and this will result in raid success and more fun for me.

Damage parsers only got a bad standing in some part of the community, because people, who probably do not even know how important raid / group setup are for DPS values, come to the forum, posting random parses and want some classes improved or nerfed.

If you don't want to use a parser, feel free to do so, but don't condemn those parsing in general.

LoreLady · 07-28-2006, 08:50 PM

Sokolov wrote:Pre-LU24 in my raids it was Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro in parses... Post-LU24 it is still Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro... For the record.

Odd.. I have yet to see my guilds conj outdamage our necro.. Necro is on the top parsers when our wizards arent on.

Tro · 07-28-2006, 09:53 PM

DobyMT wrote:

perkinsowns wrote:
I call BS to..... i could send my pets in and go afk and pretty much out dps any healer.

Then your healers suck. Druids especially need to be around 600-800 and healing. My pet ain't hitting no 800 anymore.

The OP is exaggerating, but is on a point. Yeah, there are a handful of us that are coming close to where we were, but alot of us aren't. I'm only about 200ish or so tops away from where I was on single target encounters. I haven't had a chance to raid the REAL AE encounters yet though. Mage pet bug once its fixed will REALLY help our dps get back up. Hopefully they will restore Elemental Vestment and then we'll be perfectly right where we should be.

That's the key phrase right there.. If even one Conjuror can come close then the class is working as intended and is inline where the Dev's wanted us. There are alot of variables involved in total DPS.. Some of you are forgetting we are all not geared (Armor, Spell level and INT for example) the same so yea it's gonna be different for everyone. Some will partse higher and some will parse lower.

TBH the nerf was barely noticable for me. My pets still do some real nice damage. My AE's still do some nice damage. Yea I don't like the reduced Root duration but I can live with that.. Keeps me on my toes.

Devasq · 07-30-2006, 03:53 AM

I play a 52 Conj and a 70 Fury and assure you that even with my big nukes I'm not going to out damage a conj. A 70 Fury's master 2 AE with decent int and crits about 2.5k and a master of the single target nuke does about 3k on crit; problem is they have long cast times and long recast times. During a raid I might be lucky if I can get 1 or 2 nukes off and thats at the risk of letting the Main Tank or my group of DPS classes die. Now my Conjuror's scout pet at 52 with Blazing Presence does insane amounts of damage; I can only imagine what a scout pet with Blazing Avatar could do. So please learn from what mistakes your making either upgrade spells, actually cast spells, and don't use your tank pet (even if it the last pet spell you get; doesn't mean its for grp/raid DPS)

Message Edited by Devasqua on 07-29-2006 07:54 PM

Relmord · 07-31-2006, 08:12 AM

Renpatsu wrote:

hahn_bard wrote:

...

Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick.

Damage parsers only got a bad standing in some part of the community, because people, who probably do not even know how important raid / group setup are for DPS values, come to the forum, posting random parses and want some classes improved or nerfed.

If you don't want to use a parser, feel free to do so, but don't condemn those parsing in general.

Not exactly. Here on this thread alone we have had people "hooked on parsing" intimate that people they know absolutely nothing about are "slacking", or "don't know how to play their 'toon correctly"., Now, if I as Conjuror X parsed amount Y in a given encounter, raid, whatever, and you believe I should be parsing Z, is it because...

A: I'm a slacker

B: I don't know how to play my 'toon

C: Because I'm a 50 year old, with commeasurate reflexes

And more importantly, how would you know?

No, the grief that parsing sometimes gets isn't because of the forums, although you have a point that it has occurred. It comes from people sending other people nasty tells, booting from parties, and yes, even from guilds based solely on some abstract numbers when those numbers may not be telling the *whole* story. Real feelings have been hurt, real friendships damaged, and real guilds have had problems due to indiscriminate parsing, and many have become leery of it, and in my opinion, rightly so. (BTW, the answer to the question posed above *would* have a heavy dose of answer C, as I will be 51 in two weeks...)

Renpatsu · 07-31-2006, 11:56 AM

Relmord wrote:

...

No, the grief that parsing sometimes gets isn't because of the forums, although you have a point that it has occurred. It comes from people sending other people nasty tells, booting from parties, and yes, even from guilds based solely on some abstract numbers when those numbers may not be telling the *whole* story. Real feelings have been hurt, real friendships damaged, and real guilds have had problems due to indiscriminate parsing, and many have become leery of it, and in my opinion, rightly so. (BTW, the answer to the question posed above *would* have a heavy dose of answer C, as I will be 51 in two weeks...)

The examples you gave never occured to me nor any of my friends - at least not even one mentioned such a behaviour. I would agree, that booting someone from group / raid / guild is not the way I would go. There are certain raid guilds which do watch parses closely and if I would be a member of one of those guilds and would do half the damage my class is capable of, I wouldn't be surprised to get comments on my damage or to get booted finally.

There are several things which could go wrong with parsing data. E.g. finger pointing like you and me mentioned (either on the forum or directly in game) or the occasional wizard who tries to beat the parse and gets aggro right from the start :smileyvery-happy:.

Best counter for the finger pointing is to choose a guild / group based on friendship. If a group leader boots me or any of my friends from a group because she / he thinks there is some 'slacking' going on, then I certainly don't want to be part of that group and will leave gladly. Same applies to a guild or raid. People doing so will most likely be a part of my ignore list. They are certainly not worth getting angry about.

I use parses to optimize my very own potential and to help our raids to figure out a strategy. This is not the only way to go, but it's definetely a way preserving fun. I know several people which don't uses parses and I am fine with that.

Relmord · 08-01-2006, 11:08 PM

I believe we are both on the same page, here. I myself never said parsers should be banned, and I don't believe that they should be. It's all in the understanding that parser numbers are raw data, and that alone, and not in any complete to boot. Those who fail, or worse, refuse to recognize that fact are the ones that give the very idea of parsing a bad name.

Used properly as a tool to improve one's *own* performance, and to develop tactics for a given raid scenario, they have great utility. It is when one aims one's parser at another player where the problems really start beginning...

Laiina · 08-02-2006, 06:37 PM

Sokolov wrote:
Pre-LU24 in my raids it was Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro in parses...

Post-LU24 it is still Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro...

For the record.

On most raids and groups I have been in, Assasin usually tops the list. 2nd and 3rd place usually alternates between necro, wizzy, and conjuror. Ranger is nearly always in the top 5 also, but dps per encounter shifts a lot, depending on mob, buffs, crits, and other factors. Also burst dps is often much higher than sustained since some spells and abilities take some time to recast.

istedgademanden · 08-25-2006, 01:47 PM

i have a 70 fury and 66 conjurer

all furys dps spells as master1 and even got nuke crit aa and hight int and i must say fury dps sucks its nothing compared to conjurers well if you have a huge group of very small mobs fury can get ok dps on parser if lucky to get the starfire of (group aoe that hits around 2k) but long recast on it..

i love my fury as healer good at healing but often there realy isnt a point in trying to doo dps with her ghee its just soo bad i might bee able to get on parser if trash mobs and im fast on the tricker but no big deal mob would die 2 sec after anyway when a dps class get their spells off

and yes my 66 conjurer totaly out dps my 70 fury and that does make good sense since fury is not a dps class try make a fury or look at a parser when your figting some real mobs ( fights that last longer than 2 sec) and you will see furys in the bottom of the dps parse

Sekkong · 08-25-2006, 08:27 PM

Juliev,

Using a parse isnt going to make you wipe repeatedly. Losing your tank to no heals, Mobs critical attacking tank, Bad pulls, Mobs you just cant handle make you wipe.

A DPS parse only shows valid use IF AND WHEN its clear you didnt have enough dps to kill the mob.

IE Long fights. Healers running out of mana. Splat raid wipes out.

A DPS parse really only good to show who may be slacking off in the middle of a fight. You know some classes will always be on top. After a couple 100 parses you know who to expect in that top 5 and about how much DPS you expect to see them doing. Your logic you posted there makes no sense. There are alot of poeple who can wipe repeatedly and have fun. Its a good part of growing as a guild with new content or trying new strats.

If parses the only thing your using to decide who you need to nerf next. Id look again. Because personnally all your guys ninja nerfs to pets and other slight changes are starting to become sicking.

Also. Better information to kill a mob. Try changing a strat. Not saying. "OMG are dps was only 10k if we raise it to 12k we can kill this mob"

In other games. That would be called "Zerging". Can kill plenty of mobs with lower amounts of dps if you improve your strat and keep everyone on the same page with what is going on.

Sekkong Heartseeker

70 Conjuror

tass · 09-04-2006, 11:31 AM

in reply to op. if a fury is out dpsing u, well.. im sry to say but you dont belong in a raid with a dps class lol. Its just sad, I mean a dumbfire pet could probably rival the lower dmg of a fury much less a nuking mage pet. Unless ur 1 of those people who uses there tank pet in offencive stance. But still even then it could probably beat on a fury.

Chips · 09-06-2006, 05:11 PM

i must say, that any damage reducing nerf in game to ANY class is bad, i particularly hated lu16 and lu 24 , lu 24 being near useless,.i picked the conj class despite the lame skins of the pets, due to soloability since i solo 90 percent of the time, i was and still am satisfied , though as stated i dont like damage nerfs in game at all, so as long as i can solo with them i am cool with them , the minute i cant, i dump the class.

i see alot of comparison posts here and in other forums on dps , i personally dont care who does the most dps , or what class is better than mine in dps etc. , as long as the target dies and we get the loot is fine by me , and if you are raiders , and in the same guild , there should be no rivalry there , it should be ....cook MOB move to next , etc. get your stuff and roll out ....posting feedbacks and petitions on why this class or another did more dps than he should etc. etc. basicly ruins the game , cause that initiates a nerf , jealousy inspired nerfs killed the guard, the sk, the paladin, and now the conj and necro.

agree?...don't agree?.i don't care ..just posting my thoughts on the matter.

JackBurtonBTLC · 09-06-2006, 11:34 PM

First I want to say I love the name "Super cool guy with a bag of chips" that made me laugh SMILEY

I also happen to agree with "Super cool guy with a bag of chips", now that I have said some can I have some? (holds hand out for chips).

Supp · 09-12-2006, 12:40 AM

My oh my, how do I even get started here?

Let's start with the 800-1200 dps of Furies. And let's assume they're not healing. My Fury has 500 Int and max crit AA's and the ritcheous scepter, so she has a 35% chance to crit dmg. Best I can do OVER THE COURSE OF ENTIRE RAID ZONE is about 450 dps. I am endlessly amazed with all these dps exaggerations and best case single target scenarios. Our rangers/assassins do about 1100 over the course of the night. And we are all very well equipped. Raid DPS on one encounter is 14K to 15K. Yes, we have hit over 15K, and I've not heard of anyone else doing that. I've been in two quality raiding guilds, and no other healer can match my dps.

Now, my best hit was Starnova Master2 critted for 4K each (green AE). So let's say I go up in PoF and find one of those 28 mob encounter ashen disciples groups that are in training. Another group, without encounter locking, knocks them all down evenly to say 500 health each. Then I nuke from out of group to finish them off. On my best hit, that calculates to 112K DPS solo! Wow, right!!

When you're calculating dps, you have to take reality into account. This means multiple different types of encounters spread over a long period of time. We can all do amazing dps if given the right situation. Even a true DPS'r in a raid is not always doing straight up dps every second.

When youre talking T1 dps, you're talking about it in relation to a raid. If instead youre talking about instances or standard grouping, each encounter is short, as is the overall experience. T1/2/3 lines start to blur at that point, so it doesnt matter nearly so much. Heck, some T1 DPS'ers dont even recognize their full potentional unless it's in a raid because it's take so long to get revved up.

Message Edited by Supple on 09-11-2006 01:48 PM

Livi · 09-15-2006, 12:10 AM

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding SMILEY

greenmantle · 09-15-2006, 02:02 AM

DobyMT wrote:

Then your healers suck. Druids especially need to be around 600-800

Tank: ok pulling named, taunting

Fury casting starfire

Tank getting beat up here

Fury casting ring of fire

Tank can i get some healing here?

Fury But Dobymt says i suck if i dont do lots of damage so im like so beyond all that healing stuff u know, casting call of storms

Message Edited by greenmantle on 09-14-2006 03:04 PM

Loranthala · 09-15-2006, 07:24 PM

Liviee wrote:

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

I did that with our inquisitor, but then he saw his high hit and had to ask about it since his high hit came from my mage pet....

Busted!!!!

Traxor789 · 09-15-2006, 07:49 PM

Liviee wrote:

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

[Removed for Content] , so we are doing lyceum "one of my higher parsing zones" and me and the necro decide in tells - that we are going to name our pets after the Inquisitor because he is trying to hit an all time high -- right after the fight we planned to instantly kill our pets.

So I planeshift on and ae incountter while the necro purposly doesnt assist and he undead tides on on thats not getting dpsed a lot.

Long story short -- you have a 5k parsing inquisitor in the guild =)

Livi · 09-16-2006, 12:16 AM

Traxor789 wrote:

Liviee wrote:

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

[Removed for Content] , so we are doing lyceum "one of my higher parsing zones" and me and the necro decide in tells - that we are going to name our pets after the Inquisitor because he is trying to hit an all time high -- right after the fight we planned to instantly kill our pets.

So I planeshift on and ae incountter while the necro purposly doesnt assist and he undead tides on on thats not getting dpsed a lot.

Long story short -- you have a 5k parsing inquisitor in the guild =)

[Removed for Content]

Supp · 09-18-2006, 06:52 PM

Liviee wrote:

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

If it's me youre referring to Liviee, it would'nt make me mad. Any healer getting ticked off because theyre getting out dps'd by a summoner pet, which is essentially a dps bot, has got a screw loose. They're healers, not dps. My main is the monk. Fury is an old main that Ive kept up with. And as you can see, or should have seen, my necro is 60, or 59 at the time of my prior post. She hasnt raided yet, obviously. But I'm mighty looking forward to it.

Rowdi · 09-20-2006, 07:17 PM

hahn_bard wrote:

Ishboozor wrote:

SilverSlayer wrote:

How about you people that geek out over math in a video game just quit or better yet, throw out the damned parsers and enjoy the freakiing game and realize that like in life, nothing is fair and balanced and that to do some things you might depend on another class to get you through it.

I don't use parsers and I think they should put all of them on the 3rd party software ban list.

The only time I hear people complaining about damage etc are usually the same people calling for nerfs of other classes and then when it happens they decide to play that class and then complain that the other classes are then overpowered etc.. and the complaining goes on and on forever. I swear I think some of you people are paid by a company to do nothing but moan and complain on game forums to try and ruin a game.

Ok so you dont like parsing and dont mind if you suck or not because you never want to see how your stacking against other players. I like to see where I stand and what I am capable of.

For all you know your the best conjuror world wide or the worst. If your having fun with the way you play being uninformed about wich it is, thats your chioce. I want to try and help my guild out as much as I can so i will continue to parse.

Its always nice to see someone belittling people who want to better themselves and others though.
Message Edited by Ishboozor on 07-07-2006 07:13 AM

Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick.

ROFL!!! That was awesome =)

Livi · 09-21-2006, 12:23 AM

Supple wrote:

Liviee wrote:

Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

If it's me youre referring to Liviee, it would'nt make me mad. Any healer getting ticked off because theyre getting out dps'd by a summoner pet, which is essentially a dps bot, has got a screw loose. They're healers, not dps. My main is the monk. Fury is an old main that Ive kept up with. And as you can see, or should have seen, my necro is 60, or 59 at the time of my prior post. She hasnt raided yet, obviously. But I'm mighty looking forward to it.

Was talking about the original poster SMILEY

Elektra34 · 09-21-2006, 04:26 AM

Hi, I was the original poster of this thread and am glad to report I am back in the top 2 for DPS on our raids now. It seems it was a temporary blip that allowed the Fury to do decent dps, they have slipped out of the top 10 again.Maybe I needed to adjust to the changes to our class, I dont know, but I do know even with 10 aa points missing I am now top 2 on most fights. Lyceum is a conjurors dream SMILEY

I miss what the old scout pet could do, and the nerf means I never use it on raids anymore as the mage is so much better which is a shame as variety would be nice.But I'm a relatively happy conj again SMILEY

07-09-2006, 10:18 AM	#31
PcJUNKE Lord Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 40	Furies do get some insane Nukes one spell does like 5k i think...... in response to the starter of the thread 1 rename your pet 2 if your pet is already your name roll a fury if u want their DPS =) __________________ Iboo 70 Conj Of Antonicas Nameless on the Unrest Server

07-10-2006, 06:16 PM	#33
juli General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 132	SilverSlayer wrote: Nope, no one in my guild uses parsers they are pointless.. the point in playing the game is to have FUN not to do math. And do you have fun when you wipe repeatedly? Or can't kill a mob? Don't you think that having better information to kill a mob rather than have to go away saying "oh well... we can try again next time" would be more fun? Not to mention the uber drops you are missing out on? I am not saying live and die by the parse, I am saying better yourself. Message Edited by juliev on 07-10-2006 08:16 AM

07-10-2006, 10:51 PM	#34
Divine Pow Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	his guild probably doesnt do raids is why they don't use parsers. This thread did teach me something though - gonna start naming my pets after someone else in my raids probably another necro/conj OR even better get them to rename their pets after me

07-12-2006, 06:48 PM	#35
Loranthala Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: WA Posts: 341	lol, done that a few times __________________ Aka Simonsays from Nektulos and Lavastorm represent!!

07-23-2006, 07:12 PM	#36
hahn_ba Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 38	Ishboozor wrote: SilverSlayer wrote: How about you people that geek out over math in a video game just quit or better yet, throw out the damned parsers and enjoy the freakiing game and realize that like in life, nothing is fair and balanced and that to do some things you might depend on another class to get you through it. I don't use parsers and I think they should put all of them on the 3rd party software ban list. The only time I hear people complaining about damage etc are usually the same people calling for nerfs of other classes and then when it happens they decide to play that class and then complain that the other classes are then overpowered etc.. and the complaining goes on and on forever. I swear I think some of you people are paid by a company to do nothing but moan and complain on game forums to try and ruin a game. Ok so you dont like parsing and dont mind if you suck or not because you never want to see how your stacking against other players. I like to see where I stand and what I am capable of. For all you know your the best conjuror world wide or the worst. If your having fun with the way you play being uninformed about wich it is, thats your chioce. I want to try and help my guild out as much as I can so i will continue to parse. Its always nice to see someone belittling people who want to better themselves and others though. Message Edited by Ishboozor on 07-07-2006 07:13 AM Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick.

07-09-2006, 10:49 PM	#32
ShreddedWhe General Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 33	Threads like this confuse me...the nerf to conjuror dps wasn't bad at all. My RL friend is a conj and his reduction was maybe a few hundred dps, but he's still outdpsing assassins/wizards in our raids. And parsers are kind of fun, and do show if a person is actually playing their toon correctly. Our guild has a dps channel that we post after every raid fight...for trash I would agree its pointless and just for bragging rights, but for named fights its interesting to see what kind of classes do what kind of dps, and pooling the encounters at the end of the raid and seeing overall dps is interesting as well.

07-24-2006, 12:03 PM	#37
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	hahn_bard wrote: ... Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick. Well, and what do you bring to the raid as summoner ? DPS and utility. If you want to improve in playing a summoner, a damage parser is a very nice tool to optimize the casting order and pet handling. There are many fights which require high DPS values to be successful. If you do less damage than you're able to and the raid failed, how did you contribute to a 'successful' raid again ? When I am able to play better, I contribute to a raid in a better way and this will result in raid success and more fun for me. Damage parsers only got a bad standing in some part of the community, because people, who probably do not even know how important raid / group setup are for DPS values, come to the forum, posting random parses and want some classes improved or nerfed. If you don't want to use a parser, feel free to do so, but don't condemn those parsing in general. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

07-28-2006, 08:50 PM	#38
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Sokolov wrote:Pre-LU24 in my raids it was Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro in parses... Post-LU24 it is still Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro... For the record. Odd.. I have yet to see my guilds conj outdamage our necro.. Necro is on the top parsers when our wizards arent on. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

07-28-2006, 09:53 PM	#39
Tro General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 698	DobyMT wrote: perkinsowns wrote: I call BS to..... i could send my pets in and go afk and pretty much out dps any healer. Then your healers suck. Druids especially need to be around 600-800 and healing. My pet ain't hitting no 800 anymore. The OP is exaggerating, but is on a point. Yeah, there are a handful of us that are coming close to where we were, but alot of us aren't. I'm only about 200ish or so tops away from where I was on single target encounters. I haven't had a chance to raid the REAL AE encounters yet though. Mage pet bug once its fixed will REALLY help our dps get back up. Hopefully they will restore Elemental Vestment and then we'll be perfectly right where we should be. That's the key phrase right there.. If even one Conjuror can come close then the class is working as intended and is inline where the Dev's wanted us. There are alot of variables involved in total DPS.. Some of you are forgetting we are all not geared (Armor, Spell level and INT for example) the same so yea it's gonna be different for everyone. Some will partse higher and some will parse lower. TBH the nerf was barely noticable for me. My pets still do some real nice damage. My AE's still do some nice damage. Yea I don't like the reduced Root duration but I can live with that.. Keeps me on my toes.

07-30-2006, 03:53 AM	#40
Devasq General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 45	I play a 52 Conj and a 70 Fury and assure you that even with my big nukes I'm not going to out damage a conj. A 70 Fury's master 2 AE with decent int and crits about 2.5k and a master of the single target nuke does about 3k on crit; problem is they have long cast times and long recast times. During a raid I might be lucky if I can get 1 or 2 nukes off and thats at the risk of letting the Main Tank or my group of DPS classes die. Now my Conjuror's scout pet at 52 with Blazing Presence does insane amounts of damage; I can only imagine what a scout pet with Blazing Avatar could do. So please learn from what mistakes your making either upgrade spells, actually cast spells, and don't use your tank pet (even if it the last pet spell you get; doesn't mean its for grp/raid DPS) Message Edited by Devasqua on 07-29-2006 07:54 PM __________________

07-31-2006, 08:12 AM	#41
Relmord Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11	Renpatsu wrote: hahn_bard wrote: ... Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick. Damage parsers only got a bad standing in some part of the community, because people, who probably do not even know how important raid / group setup are for DPS values, come to the forum, posting random parses and want some classes improved or nerfed. If you don't want to use a parser, feel free to do so, but don't condemn those parsing in general. Not exactly. Here on this thread alone we have had people "hooked on parsing" intimate that people they know absolutely nothing about are "slacking", or "don't know how to play their 'toon correctly"., Now, if I as Conjuror X parsed amount Y in a given encounter, raid, whatever, and you believe I should be parsing Z, is it because... A: I'm a slacker B: I don't know how to play my 'toon C: Because I'm a 50 year old, with commeasurate reflexes And more importantly, how would you know? No, the grief that parsing sometimes gets isn't because of the forums, although you have a point that it has occurred. It comes from people sending other people nasty tells, booting from parties, and yes, even from guilds based solely on some abstract numbers when those numbers may not be telling the whole story. Real feelings have been hurt, real friendships damaged, and real guilds have had problems due to indiscriminate parsing, and many have become leery of it, and in my opinion, rightly so. (BTW, the answer to the question posed above would have a heavy dose of answer C, as I will be 51 in two weeks...)

07-31-2006, 11:56 AM	#42
Renpatsu Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 188	Relmord wrote: ... No, the grief that parsing sometimes gets isn't because of the forums, although you have a point that it has occurred. It comes from people sending other people nasty tells, booting from parties, and yes, even from guilds based solely on some abstract numbers when those numbers may not be telling the whole story. Real feelings have been hurt, real friendships damaged, and real guilds have had problems due to indiscriminate parsing, and many have become leery of it, and in my opinion, rightly so. (BTW, the answer to the question posed above would have a heavy dose of answer C, as I will be 51 in two weeks...) The examples you gave never occured to me nor any of my friends - at least not even one mentioned such a behaviour. I would agree, that booting someone from group / raid / guild is not the way I would go. There are certain raid guilds which do watch parses closely and if I would be a member of one of those guilds and would do half the damage my class is capable of, I wouldn't be surprised to get comments on my damage or to get booted finally. There are several things which could go wrong with parsing data. E.g. finger pointing like you and me mentioned (either on the forum or directly in game) or the occasional wizard who tries to beat the parse and gets aggro right from the start :smileyvery-happy:. Best counter for the finger pointing is to choose a guild / group based on friendship. If a group leader boots me or any of my friends from a group because she / he thinks there is some 'slacking' going on, then I certainly don't want to be part of that group and will leave gladly. Same applies to a guild or raid. People doing so will most likely be a part of my ignore list. They are certainly not worth getting angry about. I use parses to optimize my very own potential and to help our raids to figure out a strategy. This is not the only way to go, but it's definetely a way preserving fun. I know several people which don't uses parses and I am fine with that. __________________ Ceneen, Warden of Elysium on Lucan D'Lere

08-01-2006, 11:08 PM	#43
Relmord Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11	I believe we are both on the same page, here. I myself never said parsers should be banned, and I don't believe that they should be. It's all in the understanding that parser numbers are raw data, and that alone, and not in any complete to boot. Those who fail, or worse, refuse to recognize that fact are the ones that give the very idea of parsing a bad name. Used properly as a tool to improve one's own performance, and to develop tactics for a given raid scenario, they have great utility. It is when one aims one's parser at another player where the problems really start beginning...

08-02-2006, 06:37 PM	#44
Laiina Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 622	Sokolov wrote: Pre-LU24 in my raids it was Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro in parses... Post-LU24 it is still Wizard > Conj > Ranger > Necro... For the record. On most raids and groups I have been in, Assasin usually tops the list. 2nd and 3rd place usually alternates between necro, wizzy, and conjuror. Ranger is nearly always in the top 5 also, but dps per encounter shifts a lot, depending on mob, buffs, crits, and other factors. Also burst dps is often much higher than sustained since some spells and abilities take some time to recast. __________________

08-25-2006, 01:47 PM	#45
istedgademanden Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4	i have a 70 fury and 66 conjurer all furys dps spells as master1 and even got nuke crit aa and hight int and i must say fury dps sucks its nothing compared to conjurers well if you have a huge group of very small mobs fury can get ok dps on parser if lucky to get the starfire of (group aoe that hits around 2k) but long recast on it.. i love my fury as healer good at healing but often there realy isnt a point in trying to doo dps with her ghee its just soo bad i might bee able to get on parser if trash mobs and im fast on the tricker but no big deal mob would die 2 sec after anyway when a dps class get their spells off and yes my 66 conjurer totaly out dps my 70 fury and that does make good sense since fury is not a dps class try make a fury or look at a parser when your figting some real mobs ( fights that last longer than 2 sec) and you will see furys in the bottom of the dps parse

08-25-2006, 08:27 PM	#46
Sekkong Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 46	Juliev, Using a parse isnt going to make you wipe repeatedly. Losing your tank to no heals, Mobs critical attacking tank, Bad pulls, Mobs you just cant handle make you wipe. A DPS parse only shows valid use IF AND WHEN its clear you didnt have enough dps to kill the mob. IE Long fights. Healers running out of mana. Splat raid wipes out. A DPS parse really only good to show who may be slacking off in the middle of a fight. You know some classes will always be on top. After a couple 100 parses you know who to expect in that top 5 and about how much DPS you expect to see them doing. Your logic you posted there makes no sense. There are alot of poeple who can wipe repeatedly and have fun. Its a good part of growing as a guild with new content or trying new strats. If parses the only thing your using to decide who you need to nerf next. Id look again. Because personnally all your guys ninja nerfs to pets and other slight changes are starting to become sicking. Also. Better information to kill a mob. Try changing a strat. Not saying. "OMG are dps was only 10k if we raise it to 12k we can kill this mob" In other games. That would be called "Zerging". Can kill plenty of mobs with lower amounts of dps if you improve your strat and keep everyone on the same page with what is going on. Sekkong Heartseeker 70 Conjuror

09-04-2006, 11:31 AM	#47
tass Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,097	in reply to op. if a fury is out dpsing u, well.. im sry to say but you dont belong in a raid with a dps class lol. Its just sad, I mean a dumbfire pet could probably rival the lower dmg of a fury much less a nuking mage pet. Unless ur 1 of those people who uses there tank pet in offencive stance. But still even then it could probably beat on a fury.

09-06-2006, 05:11 PM	#48
Chips Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 150	i must say, that any damage reducing nerf in game to ANY class is bad, i particularly hated lu16 and lu 24 , lu 24 being near useless,.i picked the conj class despite the lame skins of the pets, due to soloability since i solo 90 percent of the time, i was and still am satisfied , though as stated i dont like damage nerfs in game at all, so as long as i can solo with them i am cool with them , the minute i cant, i dump the class. i see alot of comparison posts here and in other forums on dps , i personally dont care who does the most dps , or what class is better than mine in dps etc. , as long as the target dies and we get the loot is fine by me , and if you are raiders , and in the same guild , there should be no rivalry there , it should be ....cook MOB move to next , etc. get your stuff and roll out ....posting feedbacks and petitions on why this class or another did more dps than he should etc. etc. basicly ruins the game , cause that initiates a nerf , jealousy inspired nerfs killed the guard, the sk, the paladin, and now the conj and necro. agree?...don't agree?.i don't care ..just posting my thoughts on the matter.

09-06-2006, 11:34 PM	#49
JackBurtonBTLC Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 207	First I want to say I love the name "Super cool guy with a bag of chips" that made me laugh I also happen to agree with "Super cool guy with a bag of chips", now that I have said some can I have some? (holds hand out for chips).

09-12-2006, 12:40 AM	#50
Supp General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 687	My oh my, how do I even get started here? Let's start with the 800-1200 dps of Furies. And let's assume they're not healing. My Fury has 500 Int and max crit AA's and the ritcheous scepter, so she has a 35% chance to crit dmg. Best I can do OVER THE COURSE OF ENTIRE RAID ZONE is about 450 dps. I am endlessly amazed with all these dps exaggerations and best case single target scenarios. Our rangers/assassins do about 1100 over the course of the night. And we are all very well equipped. Raid DPS on one encounter is 14K to 15K. Yes, we have hit over 15K, and I've not heard of anyone else doing that. I've been in two quality raiding guilds, and no other healer can match my dps. Now, my best hit was Starnova Master2 critted for 4K each (green AE). So let's say I go up in PoF and find one of those 28 mob encounter ashen disciples groups that are in training. Another group, without encounter locking, knocks them all down evenly to say 500 health each. Then I nuke from out of group to finish them off. On my best hit, that calculates to 112K DPS solo! Wow, right!! When you're calculating dps, you have to take reality into account. This means multiple different types of encounters spread over a long period of time. We can all do amazing dps if given the right situation. Even a true DPS'r in a raid is not always doing straight up dps every second. When youre talking T1 dps, you're talking about it in relation to a raid. If instead youre talking about instances or standard grouping, each encounter is short, as is the overall experience. T1/2/3 lines start to blur at that point, so it doesnt matter nearly so much. Heck, some T1 DPS'ers dont even recognize their full potentional unless it's in a raid because it's take so long to get revved up. Message Edited by Supple on 09-11-2006 01:48 PM __________________ 80 Barbarian Necromancer \| 139 AA \| 380 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Fae Warlock \| 135 AA \| 400 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Teir'Dal Bruiser \| 132 AA \| 76 Carpenter \| 350 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Arasai Mystic \| 132 AA \| 370 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 71 Barbarian Guardian \| 108 AA \| 350 Muter of Antonia Bayle 70 Teir'Dal Fury \| 81 AA \| 80 Sage \| 400 Transmuter of Antonia Bayle 61 Sarnak Ranger \| 75 AA of Antonia Bayle Betrayals: Bruiser (2) \| Fury (1) \| Warlock (2) \| Mystic (1) \| Guardian (1) \| Ranger (1) \| Others (3)

09-15-2006, 12:10 AM	#51
Livi General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 89	Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding

09-15-2006, 02:02 AM	#52
greenmantle Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 769	DobyMT wrote: Then your healers suck. Druids especially need to be around 600-800 Tank: ok pulling named, taunting Fury casting starfire Tank getting beat up here Fury casting ring of fire Tank can i get some healing here? Fury But Dobymt says i suck if i dont do lots of damage so im like so beyond all that healing stuff u know, casting call of storms Message Edited by greenmantle on 09-14-2006 03:04 PM

09-15-2006, 07:24 PM	#53
Loranthala Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: WA Posts: 341	Liviee wrote: Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding I did that with our inquisitor, but then he saw his high hit and had to ask about it since his high hit came from my mage pet.... Busted!!!! __________________ Aka Simonsays from Nektulos and Lavastorm represent!!

09-15-2006, 07:49 PM	#54
Traxor789 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 214	Liviee wrote: Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding [Removed for Content] , so we are doing lyceum "one of my higher parsing zones" and me and the necro decide in tells - that we are going to name our pets after the Inquisitor because he is trying to hit an all time high -- right after the fight we planned to instantly kill our pets. So I planeshift on and ae incountter while the necro purposly doesnt assist and he undead tides on on thats not getting dpsed a lot. Long story short -- you have a 5k parsing inquisitor in the guild =) __________________

09-16-2006, 12:16 AM	#55
Livi General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 89	Traxor789 wrote: Liviee wrote: Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding [Removed for Content] , so we are doing lyceum "one of my higher parsing zones" and me and the necro decide in tells - that we are going to name our pets after the Inquisitor because he is trying to hit an all time high -- right after the fight we planned to instantly kill our pets. So I planeshift on and ae incountter while the necro purposly doesnt assist and he undead tides on on thats not getting dpsed a lot. Long story short -- you have a 5k parsing inquisitor in the guild =) [Removed for Content]

09-18-2006, 06:52 PM	#56
Supp General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 687	Liviee wrote: Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding If it's me youre referring to Liviee, it would'nt make me mad. Any healer getting ticked off because theyre getting out dps'd by a summoner pet, which is essentially a dps bot, has got a screw loose. They're healers, not dps. My main is the monk. Fury is an old main that Ive kept up with. And as you can see, or should have seen, my necro is 60, or 59 at the time of my prior post. She hasnt raided yet, obviously. But I'm mighty looking forward to it. __________________ 80 Barbarian Necromancer \| 139 AA \| 380 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Fae Warlock \| 135 AA \| 400 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Teir'Dal Bruiser \| 132 AA \| 76 Carpenter \| 350 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 80 Arasai Mystic \| 132 AA \| 370 Tinkerer of Antonia Bayle 71 Barbarian Guardian \| 108 AA \| 350 Muter of Antonia Bayle 70 Teir'Dal Fury \| 81 AA \| 80 Sage \| 400 Transmuter of Antonia Bayle 61 Sarnak Ranger \| 75 AA of Antonia Bayle Betrayals: Bruiser (2) \| Fury (1) \| Warlock (2) \| Mystic (1) \| Guardian (1) \| Ranger (1) \| Others (3)

09-20-2006, 07:17 PM	#57
Rowdi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	hahn_bard wrote: Ishboozor wrote: SilverSlayer wrote: How about you people that geek out over math in a video game just quit or better yet, throw out the damned parsers and enjoy the freakiing game and realize that like in life, nothing is fair and balanced and that to do some things you might depend on another class to get you through it. I don't use parsers and I think they should put all of them on the 3rd party software ban list. The only time I hear people complaining about damage etc are usually the same people calling for nerfs of other classes and then when it happens they decide to play that class and then complain that the other classes are then overpowered etc.. and the complaining goes on and on forever. I swear I think some of you people are paid by a company to do nothing but moan and complain on game forums to try and ruin a game. Ok so you dont like parsing and dont mind if you suck or not because you never want to see how your stacking against other players. I like to see where I stand and what I am capable of. For all you know your the best conjuror world wide or the worst. If your having fun with the way you play being uninformed about wich it is, thats your chioce. I want to try and help my guild out as much as I can so i will continue to parse. Its always nice to see someone belittling people who want to better themselves and others though. Message Edited by Ishboozor on 07-07-2006 07:13 AM Maybe he doesn't care about his [Removed for Content] size. Isn't the only difference between a good Conjuror and a bad one, the ability to contribute to a successful raid? If mobs are dying - does it matter that you're getting 42.6 more dps than Timmy McSummons the casual conjuror? Not really - but if you're looking to flash the [Removed for Content], boy it sure helps to have a measuring stick. ROFL!!! That was awesome =)

09-21-2006, 12:23 AM	#58
Livi General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 89	Supple wrote: Liviee wrote: Are you the only conjuror/necro on your raid force? Cause I would be laughing my butt off if 1 of the other conjuror/necros named their pet the same name as the Fury just to make you mad. Just a thought lol But I would know nothing of these kinds of things cause I am a just a templar searching for ways to help my guild with raiding If it's me youre referring to Liviee, it would'nt make me mad. Any healer getting ticked off because theyre getting out dps'd by a summoner pet, which is essentially a dps bot, has got a screw loose. They're healers, not dps. My main is the monk. Fury is an old main that Ive kept up with. And as you can see, or should have seen, my necro is 60, or 59 at the time of my prior post. She hasnt raided yet, obviously. But I'm mighty looking forward to it. Was talking about the original poster

09-21-2006, 04:26 AM	#59
Elektra34 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 19	Hi, I was the original poster of this thread and am glad to report I am back in the top 2 for DPS on our raids now. It seems it was a temporary blip that allowed the Fury to do decent dps, they have slipped out of the top 10 again.Maybe I needed to adjust to the changes to our class, I dont know, but I do know even with 10 aa points missing I am now top 2 on most fights. Lyceum is a conjurors dream I miss what the old scout pet could do, and the nerf means I never use it on raids anymore as the mage is so much better which is a shame as variety would be nice.But I'm a relatively happy conj again