Targeting 101

[namax]

I could use advice on targeting my dps in group situations where there is a main tank (this would probably also apply to the MA in raids).  I'm new to casting classes so bear with my ignorance please....

 

Currently, I right click the tank and assist.  So when the tank engages a mob, after they establish aggro I send in my pet (mage or aery) and begin casting.  Now here's where I need advice.  The tank's target dies and my pet runs back to my side.  The tank targets the next mob, but when I try to send in my pet and/or cast a spell, neither will happen because I don't have a target.  So I have to find the tank and click assist again.  If he's surrounded by mobs, I use the group window to highlight his name, select assist etc. and begin again.  That seems very laborious, and I'm sure there is a faster way.  For tough heroic encounters that last a while it's no big deal, but when your clearing trash mobs quickly I feel like I miss half the battle making sure I'm assisting instead of outright targeting the mobs.

 

So my questions are - for trash mobs do you just kill anything anyway and not worry so much about assisting?  That wouldn't seem right.  Do you use macros?  Does it have anything to do with whether auto attack is on or off?  Thanks in advance.

[de lori]

I have a macro I use with our MT

first line   /target [main tanks name here]

second line /assist

you could add a third line /petattack but imo this is asking for trouble and you are better off making this decision yourself manually

I like to add the assist part because knowing what the mob is targeting helps u know if pet has ganked aggro.

this way u have a hotbar key that will pick MTs target for u. each time a mob dies just reclick it. even using while a mob is going down in case MT has swapped targets.

The easier way is to just target the MT. All your dmg will be directed to his target. The only thing I dislike about this is not knowing exactly when pet has pulled aggro...can mean the difference between landing stoneskin on him or not.

Also depending on what your fighting it may actually be better to target a mob that the MT is not focused on. On easier mobs you can find your target being dropped b4 u can land anything decent in the way of dmg. by focusing on a seperate mob you'll have time to land all your dots b4 your target dies. This will obviously lead to situations where you or your pet pull aggro so you need to be aware of this and how to combat it. As well as this, plenty of Tanks wont appreciate it, however those that understand what your doing and have confidence in you doing it correctly usually like this style of play.

[Thoc]

I never, ever use /assist. EQ2 has implied targeting. When you select another player, your offensive abilities go toward his/her target, and your defensive abilities go toward your targeted friend.When grouping with a MT only, I'll select him and go to work. No need to change targets 99.9% of the time. (Might change targets for buffing, or if you're doing something special like off-tank with pet or some such.)If your group has a MA, just repeat above, except target the MA instead of the MT.The only benefit I can think of for changing targets would be to see what the enemy has targeted. (As stated by  de lorian)Here is my concern on that though:If the MT switches targets, you won't know. Your chances of gaining agro will go up in a large way. This is because you're not being a team player. IMO, let the MT dictate who/what the group is killing.(Reasons why the MT might change targets mid-battle: 1) agro control if something goes bad  2) He notices a healer mob in the encounter and chooses to kill it first 3) etc...)So, I believe that using /assist as a conjuror causes more problems than it solves.

[Banditman]

My standard procedure on a raid:Observe upcoming encounter.  Is it a group of mobs or one mob?  If it's one mob only, target MT and never leave.Against a group of mobs, I look deeper.Is it just a bunch of relatively equal strength mobs?  If so, find one that the MT is *not* targeting and cast Pyromancy on that mob after the first AE taunt goes off, then switch to the MT as my target for the rest of the fight.Is there one mob in there that is much stronger than the rest?  If so, target that one and cast Pyromancy and Shattered before switching to MT as target.The key for me and Jabober is to *never* send him against a target that the MT is not directly attacking.  I don't care if he's Air or Fire, Jabober only gets to chew on mobs the MT is targeting.I also mash my "Pet Attack" button relatively often (maybe every 8-10 seconds) during the fight to be absolutely sure the MT hasn't switched targets on me and I didn't notice.  You might even consider creating a macro like:  /pet attack; /usea pet deaggro.  Tapping that pet attack macro then does two jobs for you

[Daghammerskold]

You can make an assist hotkey.There is no hotkey assigned to /assist by default but somewhere in the options button menu you can assign a hotkey. I use .In a fight I use the f-key to target the tank and if there is some reason why I think it would be better to directly target the mob I just hit , no need to tinker with macro everytime you work with a different tank.One reason why I sometimes 'assist' rather than 'target thru' (a distinction many are not aware exists) is that the tank may change targets to pull a mob off the healer, or to pick up an add, or to make sure that all the mobs in the encounter hate him more than AE users, or ... whatever reason, anyway this will leave a low health mob continuing to do full damage to the tank. By assisting (and so not changing targets when tank does) I can finish the mob off, ending the damage it does, then f-key the tank again and repeat.  Done right, I kill the mob before it starts hating me more than the tank, so I don't start the fight using /assist, only when the mob's health is down and I want to make sure it dies no matter what the tank does.  Since I'm usually the only one attacking that particular mob at those times I also have the leisure to cast slow spells like AEs.  I do try to be careful and so far I haven't had any tanks complain, if they've even noticed.

[tbotus]

Any raid worth being at will have an MA.Never target your MT. Unless you're in a guild full of imbeciles. In which case you're probably screwed anyways.As for targeting, in groups it can vary. You may want to switch and stun a heavy caster, then fly back to the main target. Roll with it. Most of the time, assist who is MT in a group, or MA on a raid.Main Tank = MTMain Assist = MAOne thing that will help you is ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker). If you see your DPS going crazy, back down a little. Always make sure you know your pet target. Targetting your tank doesn't help much as a summoner, unfortunately. It's like just targetting your tank as a healer... not always applicable. Just make [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure that your pet is on the right target, by switching around.Fidget digets, my friend.If you have any further questions, let me know. You can PM me or reach me at Mistmoore.Raygo.--Raygo

[Banditman]

I think statements like that are a great disservice.I target my MT nearly exclusively, with exceptions and such I noted above.  Even when we use an MA, I personally don't use him very often.Not all guilds use an MA and many have very valid reasons for doing so and this works for them.Reasoned thought and informed decision making wins over rote procedure every single time.

[tbotus]

There are reasons that there is an MT and MA.Think of it this way: Your Main Tank is your shield.Your Main Assist is the hand holding the hilt. In this case, the blade attached to the hilt is you.If you target your MT and he has to switch to a new target to secure aggro, you make matters worse by fluctuating the aggro table. If that's your play style and "reasoned thought" go for it. I agree that is never a strict procedure, especially with raiding, but let your MT do his thing and kill what the MA is killing. Healers/Illusionists fluctuate in who they heal/attack... no real reason conjurors should.As for using an MA, many time times they are not necessary. But more often, they are and their exclusion winds up giving the entire raid the feeling that they're tripping over their shoe-laces.If by shoe-laces I mean getting destroyed mercilessly by any number of creatures.Anyways, there will always be that "you're doing a great disservice, i'm so pristine" poster that sits rather high on their horse. As for guilds that don't use an MA, ever... list a few and lets see how much sucess they've REALLY had.--Raygo

Message Edited by tbotus on 06-06-2006 03:12 PM

[namax]

OK - um...thanks for the replies....didn't mean to set off a debate on the theory so to speak.  In my guild, when raiding, we use a MA most of the time.  That person directs the DPS.  The MT holds the aggro and takes the beating while the MA circles the room mowing things down as the conduit for all the DPS.  My main toon is a plate tank, so I've never had to worry about targeting vs. assisting.  And since I'm aggro focused, it's simple enough to TAB through my targets if necessary.

But since I'm new to casting (and summoning) my question was more about the mechanics - IE whether it is the MT in a group, or the MA in a raid, how to target them so my pet attack doesn't cease with each dying mob and run back to me.  From what I gather, since I'm not using my tank pet who taunts mobs,  there is no way for the pet to aquire the next target without my intervention.  Am I correct on that?

It sounds like the best way is to create an /assist macro and a /target macro as well (leaving the debate of whether to assist or target aside), use either key to acquire the new target and mash the pet attack key again.   So the pet will still be briefly idle and running back to me, but using macros will keep that time to a minimum.

[Banditman]

Your pet damage is going to stop every time a mob dies, there is really no help for that.Off targeting your AE spells (Dumbfires, DD, DoT) all help prop up your damage.  There is nothing that will deep six your DPS like having a target die JUST before that long cast time on Deluge goes off.