Tier 7 Raiding Tips

[mcavellero]

Hey all.  I am about to hit level 70 with my coercer and am part of a guild that raids from time to time.  My guild has been operating without the use of an enchanter taking on full Lab Runs, Tarinax, the Lyceum and so on...  Therefore, generally, they are not too familar with how a coercer can benefit these raids. 

 

 Now I know that not all raid mobs are epics(therefore charmable/mezzable) and I have major utility such mem wipe but where can I apply these to dragons such as Tarinax?  When should I use mem wipes..on which mobs, etc...  Anything tips/tricks would help out.

 

 

Thanks in advance...

 

Edit:  Also, can anyone recommend useful macros

Message Edited by mcavellero on 10-29-2006 11:05 PM

[StElNino]

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mcavellero wrote:

 

Edit:  Also, can anyone recommend useful macros

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/afk

[mcavellero]

muahahaha

[mutschml]

Looks like you have the same situation as me. I often DC my main wizard and a coercer on our raids. Sometimes I play only coercer (lyceum).My coercer is in MT group for the buffs. put hate + DPS buff on a guardian/berserker, they really like that. And the heal crit for the 2-3 healers in the MT group is great as well.I put the coercer AF (not afk!) on a healer, and target my wizzy.During the fight, I keep up Marred Psyche (the all magical debuff), cast the hex doll, and put auspex.With this setup I can happily nuke with my wizard. And the occasional Mana Flow is very nice too.

[Aoi]

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mcavellero wrote:

Hey all.  I am about to hit level 70 with my coercer and am part of a guild that raids from time to time.  My guild has been operating without the use of an enchanter taking on full Lab Runs, Tarinax, the Lyceum and so on...  Therefore, generally, they are not too familar with how a coercer can benefit these raids. 

 

 Now I know that not all raid mobs are epics(therefore charmable/mezzable) and I have major utility such mem wipe but where can I apply these to dragons such as Tarinax?  When should I use mem wipes..on which mobs, etc...  Anything tips/tricks would help out.

 

 

Thanks in advance...

 

Edit:  Also, can anyone recommend useful macros

Message Edited by mcavellero on 10-29-2006 11:05 PM

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You might want to try some more specific quesitons, as "Hi, I'm a new Coercer, what do I do on raids?" is somwhat a huge, open-ended question.

I will say, however, that if you are talking about Amnesia when you say mem-blur, you need to read how the spell works carefully before using it.  There is a good chance it will kill you anytime you use it since it wipes the hate list and puts back on alone.  Safer to say, don't ever use Amnesia unless told to do so, as you risk wiping the entire raid.

Also, get familiar with raid mechanics, such as the immunity times for stun, mes, daze, and stifle.

Much of becoming a knowledgeable raider is from actually raiding and listening closely to those folks leading your raids.

Also, you may find many folks are hesitant to give away raid strategies unless you have very specifi questions about a given encounter.

And last, but not least, forum search is your friend!!

Cyene

[Tanatus]

Minimum what expected from raiding coercer in MT group

Hate to MT, Crack for group, Crit Heal for healers, Amends on brigands and warlocks - on the pull TOE on cleric or ranger (if de-agro pull used)

In more advanced scenario you expected to pull around 800DPS (give or take 100), refuel self from 0 mana to full under 30s and split mana (if [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit fan), play sacroficial lamb (possesion or amnesia), keep mana flow up and running all the time

Thats pretty much it - simple

[Korpo]

/agree TantatusMake sure you're mana flowing someone as soon as it's up. Whether that's a healer, the MT, a wizzie, whatever. It should be going no matter what. Make sure you keep Beholder's up all the time and cast Gorging every time you can. Pass around your Harm Link deagro to the usual offenders. Your DPS buff is nice if you're in the right group setup, assassins are the only scouts that don't really benefit from it. If you're in the MT group you'll be hate buffing the tank, DPS on the tank, and then passing around a bunch of deaggros. Unless you have a swash in the MT group feeding hate to the tank, then he gets DPS too. A pally MT amendsing a brig would also mean DPS on the brig, etc. Adjust as necessary for your raid setup. Bottom line is I usually drop the int/agi buff and resist/power buff on raids, since those conc slots are better used on single buffs.You'll probably be expected to memwipe Vyemm (unless you guys don't do that), which will make you dead. Such is life. You can also save some people some armor with a memwipe when the fight is obviously hopeless, like all your tanks are down and the mob is beating on healers and it's at 75% life. People used to memwipe Godking or something back in the day, but I was playing my warlock at the time and didn't really pay attention to what the chanters were doing. It's not like anybody really raids him anymore anyway.I also spend a good chunk of time stunning, stifling, or dazing the mob on nameds and such. People look at a 2s stun on an epic and laugh, but that's 2s that the tank isn't taking any damage, and with a pile of healers on him it lets them "catch up". Stifle and daze have less of an effect, but if you space them out a bit it definitely helps. I also get tasked to mezing adds on fights that have a named plus a bunch of (non-epic) adds. Elemental Warder, Gnorbl, Tarinax, Hurricanus, Princes, Matron, and some lizardman guy in LoA all come to mind.

[Aoi]

"Bottom line is I usually drop the int/agi buff and resist/power buff on raids, since those conc slots are better used on single buffs."

 

In the MT group, my healers usually won't let me drop Incitement, but I agree with the concept fully.

 

Mana Flow is huge IF you remember to get it on folks early in the fight and keep it going.  Getting Mana Flow on someone already out of power is usually too late.

 

Cyene

[Korpo]

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Aoine wrote:

"Bottom line is I usually drop the int/agi buff and resist/power buff on raids, since those conc slots are better used on single buffs."

 

In the MT group, my healers usually won't let me drop Incitement, but I agree with the concept fully.

 

Mana Flow is huge IF you remember to get it on folks early in the fight and keep it going.  Getting Mana Flow on someone already out of power is usually too late.

 

Cyene

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Is it better to give your MT healers an extra 500 or whatever power, or is it better to let a swash, brig, wiz, war, whatever do an extra 23% DPS before he pulls agro? Depends on your raid, your DPS, the encounter, everything. I look at the healers' power at the end of the fight, and I figure they didn't need their entire power pool, so a buff giving them a bigger power pool is a waste, wheras a buff letting the brig do an extra few hundred DPS helps. It does depend on your people and how your raids go though.

[Tanatus]

Losing brigand due to double duration of despatch that been executed premature ... sucks (and yes MT have every single master, hate buff from coercer (49) and from dirge (40)) So brigands must be always de-hated to nearly zero hate (it's the only scout class that can't de-agro self). Second priority obviously warlocks, lastly wizards. Wizard can pull agro only in 1 case lol - if wizard manage get early good crit on Fusion on despatched mob (we talking about 27K+ numbers)

[freesee]

not sure if anyone else uses this, but i usally amnesia if MT loses agro, dosent work everytime, but does seem to help the MT get agro back.

[Aoi]

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freesee wrote:
not sure if anyone else uses this, but i usally amnesia if MT loses agro, dosent work everytime, but does seem to help the MT get agro back.

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The only problem with doing that is if one of the healers or DPS land a big heal/hit right after Amnesia, they could get agro and 1-shotted.

I rarely use Amnesia for anything other than sacrificing myself to save the raid on a bad pull.  Just gotta make sure to tell everyone to stop attacking and cancel their dots.

Cyene

[Korpo]

The problem with Amnesia is that if the mob is currently stun-immune and you're close enough to it, it will just kill you and reset. If someone else has a dot on it or something, it will also kill them on its way to resetting. If the tank is rooted in place, or can't get to the mob before it resets, you'll get a mob running back and resetting, all so you could save that poor brigand. Bad idea IMO.

[Tanatus]

Actually ..... if mob dont have many/any dots on it you can use this combo

Mez - Amnezia .... and run forest run but Deep Focus - Amnesia work as well .... (it buy you nearly 3 second)

[Vampyr]

"So brigands must be always de-hated to nearly zero hate (it's the only scout class that can't de-agro self)." That is incorrect, brigands have the same amount of detaunts as swashbucklers: Elude(instant hate reduction) and Hideaway(instant hate reduction + lowering threat priority by one position). Elude is around 20-30 second recast and hideaway is 1 minute. You can also make a macro with Appeal for Mercy like this: /target_self /usea Appeal for Mercy That gives you an instant detaunt and threat position decrease when hit. If spamming those doesn't work then give your brigand a troubador...

[FLLonewu]

For mobs that have memwipes, like Vyemm Tyranix and Bloodbeast, save your Deep Focus stun for just after the memwipe.  This helps keep the mob from killing ur healers (usually shaman or druid) or big DPS classes.  The mob may be slightly out of position, but if your raid is disciplined and knows to hold back on attacks for a few seconds after the wipe for the MT to get it back, it should be mostly the MT getting hate back then and the mob goes right back to the MT.

[Sydias]

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Vampyrus wrote:
"So brigands must be always de-hated to nearly zero hate (it's the only scout class that can't de-agro self)."

That is incorrect, brigands have the same amount of detaunts as swashbucklers: Elude(instant hate reduction) and Hideaway(instant hate reduction + lowering threat priority by one position). Elude is around 20-30 second recast and hideaway is 1 minute. You can also make a macro with Appeal for Mercy like this:
/target_self
/usea Appeal for Mercy

That gives you an instant detaunt and threat position decrease when hit. If spamming those doesn't work then give your brigand a troubador...

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Brigs can also double up on thier de-agro skills, so they can elude, shadowslip, double-up (which does elude and shadowslip again).  Even with just adept 1s that equates to over 3K hate reduction in about 2 seconds.

 

[Tanatus]

Umm wrong brigands can't self de-agro anywhere near as good as other rogue/scouts and that a big problem - you mess up things with swashes.... (those yes have massive hate transfer)... Toss here fact that brigands normally use double up on despatch ... (which give bigger window for raid to attack at full power but for a cost massive agro gain of brigand)

Message Edited by Tanatus on 11-05-2006 01:20 AM

[Aoi]

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FLLonewulf wrote:For mobs that have memwipes, like Vyemm Tyranix and Bloodbeast, save your Deep Focus stun for just after the memwipe.  This helps keep the mob from killing ur healers (usually shaman or druid) or big DPS classes.  The mob may be slightly out of position, but if your raid is disciplined and knows to hold back on attacks for a few seconds after the wipe for the MT to get it back, it should be mostly the MT getting hate back then and the mob goes right back to the MT.

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Yup, this works well, but you usually have to save Confoundment too, as I have found Deep Focus does not refresh as fast as the mob's mem-wipe in many cases. Cyene

[mcavellero]

Sorry for the late response.  Just wanted to say thanks for all your tips and provide some info for those that might have the same question.  My guild uses three healers in the MT grp+tank+rogue+dirge; it seems, from what I have been told, that the dirge is the better choice because they have stone skin buffs and avoidance buffs.  I know that we get mana wards, superior mana regens, higher hate, and critical heal increases(w/ AAs) however avoidance and stone skin are important. 

 

I am  however usually placed in a Scout/Mage Group and keep the mana regen going while chaining stuns/stifles or trying try to hit as close to 1k dps as possible.  Depending on the mob, I utilize different spells for different situations; like when vym mem wipes I pop an amnesia and a stun off(you have to be able to read and understand ACT).  I  have also sucessfully used amnesia from time to time when the mob is stuck on someone.    

 

Message Edited by mcavellero on 12-24-2006 08:37 PM

[laddich]

Tier 7 Raiding:Start off with either Silence (stifle) or Daze : This shaves off the spike damage mobs tend to have when not (entirely) debuffed. Then hold back a second of four before you throw in your debuff. I found that tanks ask for the debuff (as it tends to land their and in fact all spells much easier) but withhold it a bit since it can get you instant agro. And a dead coercer from the word GO is not much utility at all.So Stifle -> Auspex -> Marred Psyche -> Daze -> Spell Scourge -> Cataclysmic Mind -> Stun when all run out, repeat.This is my main cycle. I use Stroke / Sonic Boom whenever I can. The Mana Flow is usefull, I usually toss it on the tank when he engages mob, and keep it up. Just as Auspex, on epic it can run out in one CA by the Epic. Watch your maintained spell window. On good encounters I can get 700-800 dps, on average I do 350-500 dps. Our DPS is dependant on luck (# of triggers) partially so we lack consistant DPS. Not that we're here for the DPS, I usually don't worry. We have to watch the target window closely to see when the immunities of the epics ward off (stifle/daze/stun icon) and put it on again asap. You can also wait with the stun until the mob turned your tank yellow/red before you apply stun. I know I have kept stun on the backhand for these occasions.As for EoF raid instances: our Dispel AA line is not working properly atm, and a lot of EoF mobs charm MT... wait to have this fixed if this ever going to happen. Certainly stifles/stuns are bigger in EoF than in KoS.Good luck!