Revamp Spell Screenies - THANK YOU KARDE SHARKE, GIVE US MORE!

[Dystr]

i am not even in beta, so i am not under the NDA, i was just being curteous and not posting this.  REMEMBER THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!!! so here you go.  i am a big fan.  sorry bout the format, this is how i got it.  personally, i think these changes are great...but form your own opinions, and read the descriptions carefully because some are tricky (see tyrannical mind)

Message Edited by Dystrax on 08-04-2005 08:46 PM

Message Edited by Dystrax on 08-04-2005 10:49 PM

Message Edited by Dystrax on 08-18-2005 11:55 AM

[Dystr]

note that psychic wail is a blue, non encounter based aoe in these screenies.  imo this should not be the case, but its still uber.

[SageScott]

I glanced through the spells, but I don't understand something: what is the role of coercer with the revamp? Is it providing some utility/buffs, some power regen, some debuffs, and some damage? I don't know, I was always interested in the crowd control aspect of enchanters since EQ1, and it just seems like encounters will no longer require any CC at all.

I am very interested in other coercer's opinions, and if you see things differently please post and enlighten me.

[Dystr]

our current role is one thing: regen.  our new role will be regen, but with mage damage capabilities.  on epics, tyrannical mind will be rediculous.  charm is gonna be great, but will require strategy and sacrificing buffs.  thank god, take the focus off crack and let us have some fun.  i think its gonna be sweet. but i agree, it would be nice to see CC be more essential.  take a good look at all of the spells there. EDIT: encounters in EQ2 DO require crowd control, just not in the form of mezzing.  stunning and stifling mobs are very effective ways of controling those mobs while still allowing AOE damage. 

Message Edited by Dystrax on 08-04-2005 09:05 PM

[Dystr]

one of my favorite new spells? spell scourge.  check it out in the upper right hand corner.

[Edgr]

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Dystrax wrote:
one of my favorite new spells? spell scourge.  check it out in the upper right hand corner.

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It only lasts 15secs. With all the new stifles and stuff, how is this spell actually useful ? If it lasted at least 1min, it may be good.

 

My favorite is Mind Rack, at the top left. Question though, whats the catch ? There has to be a catch.

Message Edited by Edgrin on 08-04-2005 09:17 PM

[Chath]

We're power manipulators, it seems, first and foremost.  We can stop an enemy from using power, or we can make it hurt to use power.  Which should we choose?  We help regenerate power, and we can also steal power (not that we steal a lot...).

 

Second, crowd control.  We can permenently stun a single mob up to heroics (let's hope illusionists get something similarly overpowered!).  We can charm mobs to ^ up to our own level.  We can still mez, and we've still got other stuns and stifles.  Our roots are being improved, and we're even getting a blindness component added.  And our aggro manipulation spells are being drastically improved.

 

Our combat buffs are being upgraded some.

 

And Psychic Wail screams "Master Mental MAGE" and is finally worthy of being a level 50 spell.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised by all of these, and I can't wait to see how they play out in the game.

 

 

Message Edited by Chatham on 08-04-2005 09:26 PM

[Petgroup]

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Chatham wrote:

 

Second, crowd control.  We can permenently stun a single mob up to heroics (let's hope illusionists get something similarly overpowered!). 

 

 

 

 

 

They better or we will see the usual people crying to nerf us. I would love to have this spell but you know there will be a surpluss of shift!!!11111 nerf coercer posts.

[Petgroup]

Also 1 other thing. Fix breeze to be more pow a tick and I would be very happy with how things were redone for us.

[Dystr]

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Edgrin wrote:

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Dystrax wrote:one of my favorite new spells? spell scourge.  check it out in the upper right hand corner.

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It only lasts 15secs. With all the new stifles and stuff, how is this spell actually useful ? If it lasted at least 1min, it may be good.

 

My favorite is Mind Rack, at the top left. Question though, whats the catch ? There has to be a catch.

Message Edited by Edgrin on 08-04-2005 09:17 PM

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it is 15 seconds duration, 15 second recast, so i assume it can be chain cast.  even if this is not the case, it can be cast every 30 seconds and does this damage every time the mob casts a spell.  a sweet 100% proc, imo. agonizing silence is getting nerfed. 10 second duration, 30 second recast.  that makes this spell (spell scourge) very useful.

Message Edited by Dystrax on 08-04-2005 09:27 PM

[Dystr]

edited the thread name to be a little more obvious.

[Ghouli]

ok, can someone point out to me if we have a DD.  the main 2 single DD spells we have I can see are tyranical mind and spell scourge.  Both of these need the mob to cast a spell or use mana,  this is good but when we need to stilfe/stun/mez these sort of cancel each other out.  At least we know we are not supposed to solo anything.   

[Dystr]

seizure is a DD still, so is ego blast. tyrannical mind and spell scourge are not exactly DDs, they are sort of procs.  agonizing silence is no longer chainable, so we cant perma-stifle. 

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Ghoulies wrote:

...

 At least we know we are not supposed to solo anything.   

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heh...what?  10 minute charm?

[Ghouli]

Siezure and Ego blast still are very low damage wise and charm while good is still non heroic, we cannot buff nor heal these pets (which we shouldn't be able to) except maybe Annoying Demanor and Synergy link which is not confirmed.  So what you are saying is that we are to rely apon a pet even more than Summoners to be able to Solo.  I pet can die very easily especially without healing when that happens we will not have ability to fight back.

[Dystr]

i assume you can buff the pets just like you can buff a tank because i do it with charm now.  how will we not have the ability to fight back?? tyrannical mind will be an enormous damage dealer.  as it is in its current form, it tops at 800 at master1, every 12 seconds.  in the revamped form it has the potential to do far greater damage.  we can still stun and stifle, and root is now 1 second cast time.  we will not have to rely on a pet to solo, but having a charmed mob to do our dirty work is gonna be sweet, imo.  it will still take strategy to solo well, but we will be able to do it so much faster now. 

[TheLo]

Holy crap, they gave chanters a 1500 point AE, thats awesome.

[ProteusTielaxi]

All I can say its... Its all worthwhile now...I really, really like what I see. Less work buffing on raids...and now able to contribute in many other ways, without trivializing encounters. Soloing will be a blast too. And more importantly, we finally fulfill the archtype vision of DPS, but we do it through indirect damage (pets, reactives, etc).

[Ghouli]

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Dystrax wrote:
i assume you can buff the pets just like you can buff a tank because i do it with charm now. 

how will we not have the ability to fight back?? tyrannical mind will be an enormous damage dealer.  as it is in its current form, it tops at 800 at master1, every 12 seconds.  in the revamped form it has the potential to do far greater damage.  we can still stun and stifle, and root is now 1 second cast time. 

we will not have to rely on a pet to solo, but having a charmed mob to do our dirty work is gonna be sweet, imo.  it will still take strategy to solo well, but we will be able to do it so much faster now. 

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Agree that we should be able to use our current buffs on mobs, if we cant we are in the crapper. 

First of all you have to be able to get a pet,  lets take SP for instance I currently do hideout on medium difficulty,  the only pet I would be able to charm would be a Single down arrow white con mob providied I can find one,  how long is that going to last against a non arrow yellow mob, not long.  is it going to last against an entire zone.   No

Tyrannical Mind only procs when the mob uses mana,  that mean you need to be able to survive the attack to get the benefits from it,  you can't have the mob stiffled or stunned cause that stops abilities that use mana.  don't now about you but currently I cant survive many attacks.  if the mob doesnt even use any mana in 15 secs well you just used up 120 odd mana for no benefit.

Spells like fatal hesitation says until struck by any damage, this means that 1 hit will cause to break.  Currently only chance to break but chance is like 98% by my reckoning.  I could have this assumption incorrect

Ego blast still has a 15 second recast which means we will need to rely on Seizure as our DD if we stifling/stunning.  IMO this still to low damage wise.

Not trying to sound negative which I have been coming across as just would like to know if the things I have raised could be issues as I think there are still some problems.

On the positive side there are good things.

1) They changed our mana to damage ratio cause that was pathetic

2)  gave us usable charm = excellent. 

3) In grps and raids if we not stifling/stunning we do have good damage potential

4) Taken the focus of mana regen as a defining class ability

5) seem to have some good mana draining

 

[AdiX__Styxx__]

i am unsure if i like the changes or not, since my guild relies on my 60 regen per tick on raids i think 24 (was it 24 ) only in groups is pathetic it should at least be around 40 ish if its only group wide and i noticed they also nerfed besklors and i heard something about minds eye not stacking with clarity ???? whats the point of the spell then? clarity group wide minds eye group wide and they dont stack hmmmm this part stinks....

i agree on the tyrrinacal mind part seems skills are overlapping and nullifying eachoter out ! Pshychic wail is a good thing tho! i like it a lot! Also the 2 perma stuns are great !

Do the stuns work on ++ epics? since my mezz does right now it would be a great upgrade since we can perma lock down 2 mobs in an epic fight and use mezz to take out any others and if they kept stuns unbreakable then can solo like this stun mob perma stun and start nuking like a mofo! seems overpowered altough i rather have my 60 clarity tick for my raids!

But i guess coercers / illussionists might be worth more with more DPS in raids then just some DPS and powerclicking i still dont know what to think about this and i hope they let minds eye stack with clarity and up the regen just a lil since now if everybpody in raid hvae that ring with 36 clicks on em from reg drayek then we become obsolete again! and warlocks will always outdamage us no matter what (and they should).

Its all trivial to me i just gonna have to see how it works out for myself!

PS: Thanks a lot dystrax for yer effort and all ya been doing for the coercer comunity its hugely appreciated!

 

[shwig]

This looks pretty nice!  Check out the way haste is in that pic.  It's become +dps instead of +haste so it might be useful after all.  I hope they don't take out the movement buff in our invis tho since it's become one of my favorite utilities =p

[AdiX__Styxx__]

did ya see it cost a conc slot?

[AdiX__Styxx__]

ah man ya gotta be kidding just saw clarity costs a conc slot too! Now if this goes live ill be [Removed for Content]! drop the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] conc slots!

conc on buffs ok thats 3 conc slots filled

3 conc slots needed for charm ok i can live with that! just drop magi shielding or some other buff that gives power! (as long as charm actually works now tho)

then velocity costing another conc slot and if i am not mistaken its one person only so only buff wise ya got 5 conc slots used!

all 3 ussual buffs = 3 concs

clarity = 1 concs

velocity = 1 concs

TOTAL = 5 concs

this means it wont leave any room for the concs ya need for yer indefinate stuns which also cost conc slots blah blah blah this will break the class even more! i rather do clarity on 24 peeps for 60 regen per click then to have to keep switching conc slots over and over!

When i was doing my previous posts i didnt even see this!

now let me check what else costs conc slots! hmmmm........

Will we get extra conc slots added? like 7 or so so we can do our 3 buffs + clarity + velocity + 2 stuns???? now i am really more negative about it and the extra DPS we get from pshychic wail well its nice but some didnt really pick this class to do DPS we picked it to make others do DPS more power = more DPS or is this a wrong assumption?

if we dont get 7 slots then drop the conc slots needed fro our stuns or for velocity or clarity but common make it work somehow!

To sacrafice 1 buff for charm to solo well thats just fine! 10 min duration on charm seems a lot to have all three buffs up i do agree totally on it!

argh! Common Soe you can do better then this drop the conclot crap already make us worth playing!

[Huskyla]

Regarding Clarity:

 

Not sure I am reading this right.  Clarity is now a permanent group buff that takes 1 concentration slot.  Mind's eye remains a 10 minute group buff

that stacks with Clarity.

 

So we can't clarity outside of our own group on raids?  An end to pain for sure, I don't know how other classes will compensate for power for their group.

But this seems odd to me, not being able to clarity outside my own group in a raid.

 

Regarding Instigation/Signet:

Signet merely buffs max power?  Instigation merely buffs max power and gives tiny mental/magic/arcane resistance?  No more agility or intelligence buff?

This seems lame.

 

[AdiX__Styxx__]

just noticed invis costing a conc slot too to cast ! sigh

and adept 3 mezzmerize needs only 1 sec to cast but lasts only 28 secs instead of the 42 we got used too and instead of a recast of 8 secs its now 10 secs unless i am mistaken!

I just hope the stuns that cost a conc slot are worth the change fro soloing stuff!

And offcourse minds eye stacking with clarity altough if clarity needs a conc slot i now see the usefullness of having them both as a spell but then at least upgrade minds eye a bit to 18 per click or so isntead of 8.33 thast just silly!

[AdiX__Styxx__]

The more i look at those spells dystrax the more i see oppurtunities but also huge fallbacks!

altough i do have a Question which concerns tyrannical mind!

Does it do damage according like this : power pool max - power left = damage

or is it like this : power pool max - power left = when any power is used from this point does the same amount of damage so 10 damage for 10 power used during the 15 secs of duration?

or is it like this : power cost of Tmind = Damage is maximizes at?

............

There are some upsides tho like the 1 sec casting stuns and dots even mezz altouhg i still dislike the short duration and longer recast! i really wanted to be CC when i picked this class and maybe my fellow coercers disagree on this entirely but....... its my honest opinion that they are breaking the class to shreds with these changes if all this remains like this!

Cause after this stuff more then ever we will be able to be replaced by a warlock! or a wizzard or even summoners! WHO DONT USE CONCSLOTS FOR THEIR CREATURES!

 

[Magool]

Is anybody able to clarify Mind Rack (30)

Cast stun until cancelled?

Im still taking it all in

Magool

40 Coercer Neriak 

edit: lvl correction

Message Edited by Magool on 08-05-2005 04:02 AM

[Em]

This sucks.

[Trathe]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Agonizing Demeanor.  That may just be another cardd we can play especially in a raid.  Especially with all the DPS revamping of Tanks and reactives agro component fixed.  Less DPS, means less Agro, no reactive agro.. More Agro for Tank is always a good thing.  Granted there is going to be taunt changes as well I would guess have not seen anything yet.  I seem to be pleases so far.  Granted my Main is a Mystic (revamp good) but my favorite alt is a Coercer only 31 and not really to that growing pain age quite yet.

 

PS: yes I am a masochist.. mystic main and coercer alt even before the revamp... played a mystic in beta when wards mitigated so yes major masochist.

Message Edited by Trathe on 08-05-2005 08:04 AM

[Dystr]

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AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:

The more i look at those spells dystrax the more i see oppurtunities but also huge fallbacks!

altough i do have a Question which concerns tyrannical mind!

Does it do damage according like this : power pool max - power left = damage

or is it like this : power pool max - power left = when any power is used from this point does the same amount of damage so 10 damage for 10 power used during the 15 secs of duration?

or is it like this : power cost of Tmind = Damage is maximizes at?

............

There are some upsides tho like the 1 sec casting stuns and dots even mezz altouhg i still dislike the short duration and longer recast! i really wanted to be CC when i picked this class and maybe my fellow coercers disagree on this entirely but....... its my honest opinion that they are breaking the class to shreds with these changes if all this remains like this!

Cause after this stuff more then ever we will be able to be replaced by a warlock! or a wizzard or even summoners! WHO DONT USE CONCSLOTS FOR THEIR CREATURES!

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read tyrannical mind again.  heres how it works: mob uses 200 power, tyrannical mind inflicts 640 damage on the mob. (200 power * 320%).  2 seconds later mob uses 100 power, tryannical mind inlficts 320 on the mob (100 power * 320%). thats at adept one.  On epics tyrannical mind will do absurd amounts of damage.  in group xp situations, not so much because the mob will die quickly.  i am not on test or beta, i have not played with these spells.  As far as CC goes, if mind rack is still a viable spell at 50, that will clearly be the focal point of CC.  save a conc slot and you have a mob mezzed/stunned indefinitely, forever.  enthrall becomes the backup.  why do people think they are breaking the class?  why will groups be more likely to take wizards now more than ever?  we still provide regen, but now we will be able to provide DPS as well.  in a group situation i see us having one of our current group buffs up, choose the most advantageous to your liking, in addition to clarity.  this leaves 3 slots for charm.  in a dungeon situation where you want to be able to use your concentration slot stun? drop that other group buff.  the choice is up to you how to play our class, we have way more options than ever.  people who are just posting THIS SUXORZ DELETING MY COERCER!!!!!!!!! without explanation are not helping.  the one thing i agree with, though, is the absurd # of spells that use concentration.  but we are not the only class with this problem.

[PigLick]

Hmm, lots to take in. Can't wait to test this in person, because it's really hard to get a feel for hoiw these changes will all mesh together conceptually, especially considering mobs have been changed as well, not to mention all the other classes.I like a lot of it, I agree with Dyst that they've done some fairly creative things to up our dps without making us wizard-lites.I also wonder how useful CC is going to be after the changes. The CC spells have been downgraded a bit in some ways, but there have been some increases as well. Mezes don't last as long and have longer recasts, which kinda sucks (especially for group mez...12 sec duration (-mitigation) and 1 minute recast? ouch...), but we also gain the perma-stun and roots seem to basically be mezes now (can't move, can't attack).Useful charm is of course great. Can't wait to play with that one as well.All in all, I think things look promising. There are a few things that concern me, and it definitely looks like it's going to get much tougher to juggle conc slots, but overall I can't wait to try these and it seems like a definite move in the right direction, and I think even as things curerntly stand it will make the class more useful, desirable and fun to play.PigLick