Coercer Updates on Test Server 2/25/04 - Page 2

Ol'b · 03-09-2005, 02:29 AM

Mayo you have no clue about coercers. We can't stifle x4 mobs. The spell lands, but it doesn't stifle them. It just drains mana.

Shut the hell up about [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] stifle , this spell will NOT work on the mobs you need it to , sure you may be able to stifle Tundra Jack but really who cares if he's stifled.... Vox is the one you would NNED to stifle and cannot.. come to think of it name one group x4 mob that can be stifled , CAUSE I HAVENT SEEN ONE YET!!!! Not some vendor loot dropping crap mob .. Illusionest are goona get more more upgrades as they continue to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] some more...

Ol'b · 03-09-2005, 02:39 AM

Tanatus i hate to say it but it's people like you whom have been blabbin for days (until now) about how great coercers are...... People get jealous, get upgrades , and we STILL SUCK!

Tanatus · 03-09-2005, 03:50 AM

We been great in DPS department in our 30s untill warlocks and wizards got upgrade....

So to speak I am mostly playing my warlock twink atm ... With coercer I do a little raiding (mana battery), harvesting (after all we playing game EverCraft II not EverQuest II) finishing Lore and Legend Books (9 done), finishing some book quest ... but there is nothing much you can do with coercer lvl 50

Shagittari · 03-09-2005, 09:38 PM

So whats the total power regen Coercers Vs. Illusionists can do now, at Adept 1 just for a baseline comparison?

Shagittari · 03-09-2005, 09:51 PM

I have a couple questions I need to know after the latest changes...

Is SoE trying to slowly dwindle the Enchanter population until none are left so they can kill off a class they have no idea what to do with?

and second...

Did the original dev team get fired when this game went live beacuse the changes they make now seem to totally be in opposite of the original intent.

I'm about 50 percent from 50 now. I had a hard time getting to 50 beacuse the guild use to regularly call for me for help on raids with power regen. Now my only viable grouping option is weakened. I'm not gonna play and alt, if SoE is gonna kill the enchanter class then I'm done.

Oghi · 03-10-2005, 12:18 AM

SOE isn't trying to "kill off" any class. That's a bit silly -- they want us all to stay and keep paying. The current problems are far more likely due to an old-standing SOE practice: Hurry to nerf perceived imbalances, but go very slow in improving any class. They decided that some of the regens and drains were too powerful, so they got nerfed. This hurt both subclasses, though Coercers bore the brunt of it. I believe SOE is also aware that enchanters are, like summoners, underpowered as members of the mage archetype. They've stated that our DPS is under review, and I believe we can expect good changes here. Eventually.

We're going to be moved closer to sorcerers. Moorgard has stated that, when SOE addresses balance issues, they look first to the archetype level. I suspect it's significantly easier to balance high-end encounters when the range of player abilities is narrower. The more alike we all are, the easier it is to predict what a group of 6, 12 or 24 can do. Expect our drains and mezzes to hold steady, at best, while our DPS will improve.

Tanatus · 03-10-2005, 01:12 AM

Oghier all right tell me reason why illusionist as class unplayable now....

Coercer class broken beiond reparation because it not fun to play

In places where CC requied (and I am talking about raiding) Coercer simply dont have enouth tools and power to perform his duty. You can safely replace 2 lvl 50 coercers with 1 lvl 43 illusionist and still have better CC. Heck you can replace coercer with troubadur and get better utility, better CC and! better DPS. Lol even Swash can do CC better due to fact that they can mez on run.

DPS while Illusionist need "slight" tuning up in this department - coercers DPS broken beiond reparation - even cleric can outdps coercer, toss here fact that 2 coercer dont stack on raid....

Untility please please please give me ONE exmaple of coercers utility spells that give coercer edge over illusionist or even bard

I really love to see 2 option

a) Change class into Illusionist w/o losing lvl

b) Total rewamp coercer as class up to removing this class from the game completely

Oghi · 03-10-2005, 01:56 AM

Did I state that illusionists are unplayable? Neither are coercers:

For CC, if you can't make do with one mezz in almost all situations, you're lousy at playing an enchanter. All enchanters have significant parts of their career with one mezz, and most of us manage just fine in those sections. The second mezz does help on rare occasions, and this is an imbalance that SOE should correct. But it's ludicrous to call this a game-breaker. Finally, mezzing on the run is far less important than you seem to think. I'd estimate I am moving while casting a mezz perhaps 1 in 500 casts. It's that rare.

As for DPS, coercers still have better nukes and single-target DPS. Illusionists do better vs groups. Both classes need significant help here. Illusionist pets have been fixed recently, and they are definitely useful (though they still have a three-minute recast). If Beguile has now been broken, that needs to be fixed. Coercers should have a much better charm than troubadors, without doubt. Similarly, we all have stacking problems. Many classes do, as so many DoT's contain non-stackable debuff components. This needs a very broad fix.

For regens and drains, both subclasses are about equal now. Neither will do markedly better than the other.

Quit bloody panicking. You seem to think that by posting apocolyptic nonsense (coercers are unplayable, illusionists are gods, we have to reroll now!!!!) that you'll get SOE's attention. What you haven't understood is that conveying anger and frustration don't do you much good alone. Spamming nonsense does little but destroy your credibility with anyone with actual knowledge of the mechanics.

The overall differences between the enchanter subclasses are relatively slight. In most categories, illusionists now have an advantage. You can expect that to continue changing with every live patch, as they continue to play with balance issue. The pendulum is going to swing back and forth. Quit screaming bloody murder every time something bad happens, and try to post calm (and accurate) data as to what the problem is. Avoid nesting that date in inaccurate, wildly exagerrated claims about subclasses you don't play and don't know. You're currently a very prolific but very poor spokesman for the coercer subclass. Consider becoming useful, instead of simply shrill.

Tanatus · 03-10-2005, 02:31 AM

Oghier you still havent named single reason why coercer is playable class - please do so

Excuse my english but I meant that Illusionist fully playable class in its current stage while coercer is not.

Tell me single area where coercer even with illusionist god forbid better...

Please dont tell me about 1 mez you simply dont know what are you talking about.... For most part of post 40 game mez is luxury (except raiding) but then it NEEDED single coercer with 1 mez that not stack with coercer stun cannt do much

Please dont tell me that anyone in Dev team actually have coercer lvl 50 and have any clue what going on with spells or we would not have for 6 month 2 spells that different icons that share same timer and do absolutely same thing aka AE stun. If anyone in Dev team actually ever tested Beguile it would not broken for 5 months. If.... list can continue very long

Coercer dont have advantage even vs. single target - this is total misleading. Best I can do is chain cast my haviest nuke and hit monsters with my light nuke in between

Sy · 03-10-2005, 04:08 AM

Its much less then that now.. SMILEY

sigh

Sy · 03-10-2005, 04:12 AM

Well said!Syan 40 Coercer 48 Alch <--- i got screwed twice!

Sy · 03-10-2005, 04:15 AM

Look I dont care if illu can do it,,,, i want my coercer better.. i dont wanna nerf others..

03-10-2005, 12:18 AM	#36
Oghi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 331	SOE isn't trying to "kill off" any class. That's a bit silly -- they want us all to stay and keep paying. The current problems are far more likely due to an old-standing SOE practice: Hurry to nerf perceived imbalances, but go very slow in improving any class. They decided that some of the regens and drains were too powerful, so they got nerfed. This hurt both subclasses, though Coercers bore the brunt of it. I believe SOE is also aware that enchanters are, like summoners, underpowered as members of the mage archetype. They've stated that our DPS is under review, and I believe we can expect good changes here. Eventually. We're going to be moved closer to sorcerers. Moorgard has stated that, when SOE addresses balance issues, they look first to the archetype level. I suspect it's significantly easier to balance high-end encounters when the range of player abilities is narrower. The more alike we all are, the easier it is to predict what a group of 6, 12 or 24 can do. Expect our drains and mezzes to hold steady, at best, while our DPS will improve. __________________ Oghier Sleepytoes, Dwarf Bartender Aramur, Illusionist Arcane Masters, Antonia Bayle

03-10-2005, 01:56 AM	#38
Oghi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 331	Did I state that illusionists are unplayable? Neither are coercers: For CC, if you can't make do with one mezz in almost all situations, you're lousy at playing an enchanter. All enchanters have significant parts of their career with one mezz, and most of us manage just fine in those sections. The second mezz does help on rare occasions, and this is an imbalance that SOE should correct. But it's ludicrous to call this a game-breaker. Finally, mezzing on the run is far less important than you seem to think. I'd estimate I am moving while casting a mezz perhaps 1 in 500 casts. It's that rare. As for DPS, coercers still have better nukes and single-target DPS. Illusionists do better vs groups. Both classes need significant help here. Illusionist pets have been fixed recently, and they are definitely useful (though they still have a three-minute recast). If Beguile has now been broken, that needs to be fixed. Coercers should have a much better charm than troubadors, without doubt. Similarly, we all have stacking problems. Many classes do, as so many DoT's contain non-stackable debuff components. This needs a very broad fix. For regens and drains, both subclasses are about equal now. Neither will do markedly better than the other. Quit bloody panicking. You seem to think that by posting apocolyptic nonsense (coercers are unplayable, illusionists are gods, we have to reroll now!!!!) that you'll get SOE's attention. What you haven't understood is that conveying anger and frustration don't do you much good alone. Spamming nonsense does little but destroy your credibility with anyone with actual knowledge of the mechanics. The overall differences between the enchanter subclasses are relatively slight. In most categories, illusionists now have an advantage. You can expect that to continue changing with every live patch, as they continue to play with balance issue. The pendulum is going to swing back and forth. Quit screaming bloody murder every time something bad happens, and try to post calm (and accurate) data as to what the problem is. Avoid nesting that date in inaccurate, wildly exagerrated claims about subclasses you don't play and don't know. You're currently a very prolific but very poor spokesman for the coercer subclass. Consider becoming useful, instead of simply shrill. __________________ Oghier Sleepytoes, Dwarf Bartender Aramur, Illusionist Arcane Masters, Antonia Bayle

03-10-2005, 04:08 AM	#40
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Its much less then that now.. sigh

03-09-2005, 02:29 AM	#31
Ol'b Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Mayo you have no clue about coercers. We can't stifle x4 mobs. The spell lands, but it doesn't stifle them. It just drains mana. Shut the hell up about [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] stifle , this spell will NOT work on the mobs you need it to , sure you may be able to stifle Tundra Jack but really who cares if he's stifled.... Vox is the one you would NNED to stifle and cannot.. come to think of it name one group x4 mob that can be stifled , CAUSE I HAVENT SEEN ONE YET!!!! Not some vendor loot dropping crap mob .. Illusionest are goona get more more upgrades as they continue to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] some more...

03-09-2005, 02:39 AM	#32
Ol'b Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Tanatus i hate to say it but it's people like you whom have been blabbin for days (until now) about how great coercers are...... People get jealous, get upgrades , and we STILL SUCK!

03-09-2005, 03:50 AM	#33
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	We been great in DPS department in our 30s untill warlocks and wizards got upgrade.... So to speak I am mostly playing my warlock twink atm ... With coercer I do a little raiding (mana battery), harvesting (after all we playing game EverCraft II not EverQuest II) finishing Lore and Legend Books (9 done), finishing some book quest ... but there is nothing much you can do with coercer lvl 50

03-09-2005, 09:38 PM	#34
Shagittari Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	So whats the total power regen Coercers Vs. Illusionists can do now, at Adept 1 just for a baseline comparison?

03-09-2005, 09:51 PM	#35
Shagittari Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	I have a couple questions I need to know after the latest changes... Is SoE trying to slowly dwindle the Enchanter population until none are left so they can kill off a class they have no idea what to do with? and second... Did the original dev team get fired when this game went live beacuse the changes they make now seem to totally be in opposite of the original intent. I'm about 50 percent from 50 now. I had a hard time getting to 50 beacuse the guild use to regularly call for me for help on raids with power regen. Now my only viable grouping option is weakened. I'm not gonna play and alt, if SoE is gonna kill the enchanter class then I'm done.

03-10-2005, 01:12 AM	#37
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Oghier all right tell me reason why illusionist as class unplayable now.... Coercer class broken beiond reparation because it not fun to play In places where CC requied (and I am talking about raiding) Coercer simply dont have enouth tools and power to perform his duty. You can safely replace 2 lvl 50 coercers with 1 lvl 43 illusionist and still have better CC. Heck you can replace coercer with troubadur and get better utility, better CC and! better DPS. Lol even Swash can do CC better due to fact that they can mez on run. DPS while Illusionist need "slight" tuning up in this department - coercers DPS broken beiond reparation - even cleric can outdps coercer, toss here fact that 2 coercer dont stack on raid.... Untility please please please give me ONE exmaple of coercers utility spells that give coercer edge over illusionist or even bard I really love to see 2 option a) Change class into Illusionist w/o losing lvl b) Total rewamp coercer as class up to removing this class from the game completely

03-10-2005, 02:31 AM	#39
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Oghier you still havent named single reason why coercer is playable class - please do so Excuse my english but I meant that Illusionist fully playable class in its current stage while coercer is not. Tell me single area where coercer even with illusionist god forbid better... Please dont tell me about 1 mez you simply dont know what are you talking about.... For most part of post 40 game mez is luxury (except raiding) but then it NEEDED single coercer with 1 mez that not stack with coercer stun cannt do much Please dont tell me that anyone in Dev team actually have coercer lvl 50 and have any clue what going on with spells or we would not have for 6 month 2 spells that different icons that share same timer and do absolutely same thing aka AE stun. If anyone in Dev team actually ever tested Beguile it would not broken for 5 months. If.... list can continue very long Coercer dont have advantage even vs. single target - this is total misleading. Best I can do is chain cast my haviest nuke and hit monsters with my light nuke in between

03-10-2005, 04:12 AM	#41
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Well said!Syan 40 Coercer 48 Alch <--- i got screwed twice!

03-10-2005, 04:15 AM	#42
Sy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Look I dont care if illu can do it,,,, i want my coercer better.. i dont wanna nerf others..