Level 44 Coercer DPS since you are curious...

Karde Shar · 01-27-2005, 01:06 AM

Group play, double up arrow mobs.

No HOs. NO debuffs. No stuns.

Tank Pulls:

Cast Anguish (DOT master 1 : 110/tick)

Cast Despair (DOT/Slow apprentice IV : 75/tick about)

Cast Tyrannical Mind (Adept 1: DD 400-500)

Cast Seizure (Adept 1: DD 150-200)

Cast Seizure

Cast Tyrannical Mind

rinse and repeat.

Most DPS I can sustain is approximately 80-90.

Throwing in Consuming Thoughts and the occasional stun...I usually average around 50-60.

This is a different play style then most are used to. I don't recommend it if you don't have the right group make up, but in my XP group, it helps us kill about 20% quicker.

I hope this helps clear up some confusion about what our damage potential is. This does not include beguiling.

Karde - Element

Najena

Tanatus · 01-27-2005, 02:17 AM

Here is different scope a bit ... but I am lvl 45

Cast Ravage Psyche (massive resistance debuff)

Cast Anguish Adept 3 - 89/tic

Cast Gloom Adept 3 - 50/tic

Cast Despair Adept 3 - 96/tic

Cast Mind Gorge Adept 2 - 60/tic

Nuke with Tyrranical Mind Adept 3 -520-570 a pop

Nuke with Muddled Thinking Master 1 - 210-240 damage a pop

Refresh Gloom or/and Despair

Easy clocking around and over 110

P.S. Keeping on target Ravage Psyche as well as combo Gloom+Despair essential for maximization nuking damage

P.P.S - Instead of Consuming toughts you should use Mind Gogre Adept 2

Shagittari · 01-27-2005, 03:21 AM

At lvl 41 In am getting around 70DPS.

Thats with stuns, haste, hate buff, and the occasional mez.

If I need to refresh the breeze cycle the DPS drops considerably.

I do the 3 DOT lines, plus Mind Gorge, Then our 2 nukes, then repeat....

Almost everything I have is only Adept 1.

Ghouli · 01-27-2005, 05:39 AM

wow, we really struggle in the DPS stakes. I was hoping somebody would shed some light of our potential and must admit it's a little dissapointing.

Read this post on the whole DPS subject.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=20377

We have CC in a game where it is not normally necessary unless in an area where spawning is prolific. So the way I see it we have 3 main uses, Breeze, haste and Power Drain. I was hoping we could add a bit of useful DPS to a group but that also looks dismal.

Coercers are basiclly a game enchancer for other classes. We should change our name from Enchanters to Enhancers.

Cant really complain just yet until I find it hard to join groups.

Clarat · 01-27-2005, 02:55 PM

Level 47 here. In a standard Permafrost / Sol Eye xp grind group I average about 60 DPS. If i neglect everything else and try for shear DPS i can hit in the 80's in a zone like CT.

A motivated wizard can do about 100 DPS. In the hopes of balance, i'd be happy if we had something to even out doing only 60% the damage of our mage counterparts, but:

charm is useless in combat

mez / crowd control is very rarely used (you can get by just fine without enchanter at the highest levels)

breeze is meant to be *situational* and not kept up on everyone at all times.

I don't want to nuke like a wizard, I just want to feel of equal power and balance to other mages: 60% damage + 3 minute breeze meant to be cast as needed doesn't equal balance.

If anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear them.

If crowd control / mezzing was *required*, it'd probably be balanced. If charm produced a short term combat useful pet i'd feel balanced.

Ghouli · 01-27-2005, 06:27 PM

I am not as high as the others posting on this topic but here is the way I see it.Currently we are 60% damage potential of Wizards, There are plans in motion to make the Wizard/Warlock the most potent DPS in the game which is rightfully so. (see wizard forum for post from Moorguard)I expect there DPS to go above 200 but probably to maintain that will drain the crap out of em. Our 60% will drop to about 25% - 40%. Conjurers currently DPS similar to wizards so we will be 60% of their DPS without the Pet. I see no light currently at the end of the Coercer Tunnel.I agree that we don't have enough of other useful skills to make up for the lack of DPS. I feel as though I am currently paying my money just to make other player characters better by casting the same spells evry 3 minutes

Message Edited by Ghoulies on 01-27-2005 06:08 AM

Tanatus · 01-27-2005, 10:08 PM

Guys you missing point

ALL 3 mage classes have SAME DPS potential ... idealy, just in different form

Sorcs- Massive DD, weak DoTs

Summoners - Massive Pet damage, moderate Dots, weak DD

Enchanters - Massive DoTs, moderate DD

In a long terms I'd expect to do 80% DPS susteined compare to summoners and 100-110 susteined of wizards/warlock that w/o charmed pet with charmed pet I should able have least +30-50% margine above any other classes (heh sweet dream)

In a "burn" mode - we all know sometime it must to be done - I'd expect do about 60% DPS of wizard and 200% DPS of summoners

In other words balance is

Susteined damage should be Summoner > Enchanter >= Sorc

Burn mode Sorc >> Enchanter >> Summoner

Ghouli · 01-28-2005, 03:46 AM

I can only go by information placed on Forums as I am not currently lvling in the 40's

I agree that we should over time our DPS should equal out to be same as Wizards and we are not as hard hitting nor should we expect to be, the problem with using sustained damage as a balance to burning as I see it is the need in EQ2 for sustained DPS to be useful. With Food/Drink "Regeneration" is fairly efficient and although there will be downtime in the big scheme of things downtime is negligable. Hardcore players may feel the effects of downtime but the majority of people who play this are not hardcore and the extra minute it takes to regenerate is not an issue, people will play this for years so a minute here and there is irrelevant. Groups fight, then determine their current status and either Regen or fight again, so sustained damage is not needed unless it is an extremely large fight or there are adds. I have gone off track back to damage, from my current experience sustained damage is useful in about 5% of combats and the majority of them are from adds, most combats are over before a Wizard has burnt all their mana.

So we have our CC which is only useful with adds, and sustained damage which is only useful slightly more often. So imo we do need something to make up for the lower DPS in majority of situations, and as mentioned a useful charm spell I think would give us that bit extra. Although I would expect a charmed creature to be far less effective in combat than an aggro mob.

As mentined Wizards currently 3rd or 4th in DPS levels and have been advised that this WILL change to be the highest DPS, what was left out is wether it will be by nerfing other classes or increasing Wizards or a bit of both. The difference between the DPS of Wizards and Coercers is going to increase and I expect we will be below 50% of their "Burning" DPS

Message Edited by Ghoulies on 01-27-2005 03:45 PM

Tanatus · 01-28-2005, 05:38 AM

Ghoulies at it now wizard and warlock indeed 3-4th DPS rank but not from top from buttom ... less then sorcs I beleive do only clerics and rogues - all fighers (6 classes) do more, predators and bards do more, enchanters and summoners do more

Ghouli · 01-28-2005, 06:10 AM

I didn't realise Wizards were THAT bad, It will be interesting to see the results after they realign a few classes. I am hoping I am wrong about the potential difference between Coercer and Wizard DPS after change.

Orki who Pos · 01-28-2005, 02:38 PM

Tanatus dont discredit the brigands, just because ruse dont tend to show up in parsers, they do alot more than wizards too ;p

Acka · 01-28-2005, 07:25 PM

I can do over 100dps, actually, 110 is my personal record. Of course, that's during the fights when I don't have to rebuff... That's excellent considering we are not dps class.

01-27-2005, 01:06 AM	#1
Karde Shar Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 108	Group play, double up arrow mobs. No HOs. NO debuffs. No stuns. Tank Pulls: Cast Anguish (DOT master 1 : 110/tick) Cast Despair (DOT/Slow apprentice IV : 75/tick about) Cast Tyrannical Mind (Adept 1: DD 400-500) Cast Seizure (Adept 1: DD 150-200) Cast Seizure Cast Seizure Cast Tyrannical Mind rinse and repeat. Most DPS I can sustain is approximately 80-90. Throwing in Consuming Thoughts and the occasional stun...I usually average around 50-60. This is a different play style then most are used to. I don't recommend it if you don't have the right group make up, but in my XP group, it helps us kill about 20% quicker. I hope this helps clear up some confusion about what our damage potential is. This does not include beguiling. Karde - Element Najena

01-28-2005, 02:38 PM	#11
Orki who Pos Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Tanatus dont discredit the brigands, just because ruse dont tend to show up in parsers, they do alot more than wizards too ;p __________________ While I must accept having no ETA for the rebirth of Christ.. Please post one for the promised coercer/healer balancing.

01-28-2005, 07:25 PM	#12
Acka Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 43	I can do over 100dps, actually, 110 is my personal record. Of course, that's during the fights when I don't have to rebuff... That's excellent considering we are not dps class. __________________ Acka Obscure 70 Coercer Ascendant - Unrest

01-27-2005, 02:17 AM	#2
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Here is different scope a bit ... but I am lvl 45 Cast Ravage Psyche (massive resistance debuff) Cast Anguish Adept 3 - 89/tic Cast Gloom Adept 3 - 50/tic Cast Despair Adept 3 - 96/tic Cast Mind Gorge Adept 2 - 60/tic Nuke with Tyrranical Mind Adept 3 -520-570 a pop Nuke with Muddled Thinking Master 1 - 210-240 damage a pop Refresh Gloom or/and Despair Easy clocking around and over 110 P.S. Keeping on target Ravage Psyche as well as combo Gloom+Despair essential for maximization nuking damage P.P.S - Instead of Consuming toughts you should use Mind Gogre Adept 2

01-27-2005, 03:21 AM	#3
Shagittari Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	At lvl 41 In am getting around 70DPS. Thats with stuns, haste, hate buff, and the occasional mez. If I need to refresh the breeze cycle the DPS drops considerably. I do the 3 DOT lines, plus Mind Gorge, Then our 2 nukes, then repeat.... Almost everything I have is only Adept 1.

01-27-2005, 05:39 AM	#4
Ghouli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	wow, we really struggle in the DPS stakes. I was hoping somebody would shed some light of our potential and must admit it's a little dissapointing. Read this post on the whole DPS subject. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=20377 We have CC in a game where it is not normally necessary unless in an area where spawning is prolific. So the way I see it we have 3 main uses, Breeze, haste and Power Drain. I was hoping we could add a bit of useful DPS to a group but that also looks dismal. Coercers are basiclly a game enchancer for other classes. We should change our name from Enchanters to Enhancers. Cant really complain just yet until I find it hard to join groups.

01-27-2005, 02:55 PM	#5
Clarat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 22	Level 47 here. In a standard Permafrost / Sol Eye xp grind group I average about 60 DPS. If i neglect everything else and try for shear DPS i can hit in the 80's in a zone like CT. A motivated wizard can do about 100 DPS. In the hopes of balance, i'd be happy if we had something to even out doing only 60% the damage of our mage counterparts, but: charm is useless in combat mez / crowd control is very rarely used (you can get by just fine without enchanter at the highest levels) breeze is meant to be situational and not kept up on everyone at all times. I don't want to nuke like a wizard, I just want to feel of equal power and balance to other mages: 60% damage + 3 minute breeze meant to be cast as needed doesn't equal balance. If anyone has any ideas I'd like to hear them. If crowd control / mezzing was required, it'd probably be balanced. If charm produced a short term combat useful pet i'd feel balanced.

01-27-2005, 06:27 PM	#6
Ghouli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	I am not as high as the others posting on this topic but here is the way I see it.Currently we are 60% damage potential of Wizards, There are plans in motion to make the Wizard/Warlock the most potent DPS in the game which is rightfully so. (see wizard forum for post from Moorguard)I expect there DPS to go above 200 but probably to maintain that will drain the crap out of em. Our 60% will drop to about 25% - 40%. Conjurers currently DPS similar to wizards so we will be 60% of their DPS without the Pet. I see no light currently at the end of the Coercer Tunnel.I agree that we don't have enough of other useful skills to make up for the lack of DPS. I feel as though I am currently paying my money just to make other player characters better by casting the same spells evry 3 minutes Message Edited by Ghoulies on 01-27-2005 06:08 AM

01-27-2005, 10:08 PM	#7
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Guys you missing point ALL 3 mage classes have SAME DPS potential ... idealy, just in different form Sorcs- Massive DD, weak DoTs Summoners - Massive Pet damage, moderate Dots, weak DD Enchanters - Massive DoTs, moderate DD In a long terms I'd expect to do 80% DPS susteined compare to summoners and 100-110 susteined of wizards/warlock that w/o charmed pet with charmed pet I should able have least +30-50% margine above any other classes (heh sweet dream) In a "burn" mode - we all know sometime it must to be done - I'd expect do about 60% DPS of wizard and 200% DPS of summoners In other words balance is Susteined damage should be Summoner > Enchanter >= Sorc Burn mode Sorc >> Enchanter >> Summoner

01-28-2005, 03:46 AM	#8
Ghouli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	I can only go by information placed on Forums as I am not currently lvling in the 40's I agree that we should over time our DPS should equal out to be same as Wizards and we are not as hard hitting nor should we expect to be, the problem with using sustained damage as a balance to burning as I see it is the need in EQ2 for sustained DPS to be useful. With Food/Drink "Regeneration" is fairly efficient and although there will be downtime in the big scheme of things downtime is negligable. Hardcore players may feel the effects of downtime but the majority of people who play this are not hardcore and the extra minute it takes to regenerate is not an issue, people will play this for years so a minute here and there is irrelevant. Groups fight, then determine their current status and either Regen or fight again, so sustained damage is not needed unless it is an extremely large fight or there are adds. I have gone off track back to damage, from my current experience sustained damage is useful in about 5% of combats and the majority of them are from adds, most combats are over before a Wizard has burnt all their mana. So we have our CC which is only useful with adds, and sustained damage which is only useful slightly more often. So imo we do need something to make up for the lower DPS in majority of situations, and as mentioned a useful charm spell I think would give us that bit extra. Although I would expect a charmed creature to be far less effective in combat than an aggro mob. As mentined Wizards currently 3rd or 4th in DPS levels and have been advised that this WILL change to be the highest DPS, what was left out is wether it will be by nerfing other classes or increasing Wizards or a bit of both. The difference between the DPS of Wizards and Coercers is going to increase and I expect we will be below 50% of their "Burning" DPS Message Edited by Ghoulies on 01-27-2005 03:45 PM

01-28-2005, 05:38 AM	#9
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Ghoulies at it now wizard and warlock indeed 3-4th DPS rank but not from top from buttom ... less then sorcs I beleive do only clerics and rogues - all fighers (6 classes) do more, predators and bards do more, enchanters and summoners do more

01-28-2005, 06:10 AM	#10
Ghouli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	I didn't realise Wizards were THAT bad, It will be interesting to see the results after they realign a few classes. I am hoping I am wrong about the potential difference between Coercer and Wizard DPS after change.