o the nay sayers

Maker · 03-11-2006, 12:12 PM

To all of those who say we are no good..I am having a blast with this class. Granted, I am only level 22 right now, but in comparison to all my alts, Illusionist is the most intriguing and entertaining to interact with. While soloing I can clean house as long as I keep my skills up to date. While grouping.. I shine like a beacon, shutting down mobs left and right while maintaining mana regen. Do I raid, obviously not, but I can say for sure, this class has a lot of potential, and is a great break from being a tank on a daily basis (and my wizzie isn't half the fun as thi class)!!!

Flipmode · 03-11-2006, 01:48 PM

Cant wait till you get your rude awakening. You will watch others grow powerful and you will remain static, unchanging, and weak. You will watch in horror as you are out DPS by healers and tanks. Ahh just wait and see. Just remember, there is no utility class in EQ2. Then it will dawn on you...then you will go back to your tank gladly.

Imokles · 03-11-2006, 02:48 PM

Flipmode wrote:
Cant wait till you get your rude awakening. You will watch others grow powerful and you will remain static, unchanging, and weak. You will watch in horror as you are out DPS by healers and tanks. Ahh just wait and see. Just remember, there is no utility class in EQ2. Then it will dawn on you...then you will go back to your tank gladly.

Well... no. I'm level59 and have yet to be out-DPSed by healers and tanks :smileywink:I still like my illusionist best (and also play others). So have fun!

WAPCE · 03-11-2006, 09:50 PM

Imokles wrote:
Well... no. I'm level59 and have yet to be out-DPSed by healers and tanks :smileywink:

You must not have very good (or any?) Furies or Berserkers. SMILEY

Manyak · 03-11-2006, 10:11 PM

Im ALWAYS the top dps in the group.....

.......when theres no1 else in it.

NG23985_01 · 03-12-2006, 01:39 AM

Prior to the release of DoF, I took my 60 Fury and 50 Illusionist to Permafrost. (2 box) I did *not* mentor - the Fury was always level 60, and not *ONCE*, no matter how hard I tried, could my Fury outdamage my Illusionist. I'll include some parses below. I dont know why you crazy people continue to insist that Illusionist DPS is pathetic - it's not.

Like the original poster, my Illusionist is a lot of fun to play, and its very versatile. I've got lots of choices of how to play the class. I can drop my Personae and use haste/dynamism on the group, or I can keep him active for his constant stuns and stifles, and he deals fairly respectable damage too. The lvl 47 Ad3 nukes for 450, and now after LU20 crits for over 500. That's fairly decent damage if you ask me.Go back to my Illusionist in Permafrost. I joined a pickup group there with my Illusionist (didnt have my Fury with me). We had a 51 Wizard and a 49 Necromancer with Ad3 mage pet, and you know what? I did more damage than either one of them! If you're getting outdamaged by a healer or tank, you're SLACKING! I had no problem inflicting more damage than the Wizard with his Ice Comet, or the Necromancer with his various spells and the Ad3 mage pet. That might be different in T7 though since Illusionist's 65 spell isnt a damage spell, but still... prior to T7, Illusionist's damage is quite good. I bet know what your problem is - you still play Enchanter with the defensive EQ1 mindset, and took that ridiculous M2 mezz or stun, over the M2 nuke or Prismatic Havoc.

~~Level 50 Illusionist VS Level 60 Fury parses, with both characters chain-nuking/dotting: (done in Permafrost)

Fight 1: Illusionist: 6177 - Fury: 5107

Fight 2: Illusionist: 10718 - Fury: 6059

Fight 3: Illusionist: 4902 - Fury: 2668

Fight 4: Illusionist: 9983 - Fury: 6805

Fight 5: Illusionist: 7804 - Fury: 3680

~~I acknowledge that Enchanters (both subs) need a bit of tweaking - lots of classes do, but as it stands right this very moment, Illusionists are a fun class to play, that can hold their own reasonably well.

Belizarius · 03-13-2006, 09:20 AM

Hmm I don't have too much trouble keeping ahead of priests and tanks, but I sure would struggle trying to match a sorceror or summoner.

To the OP, there definitely were issues with scaling of Illusionist damage spells as you levelled, though I don't know what it's like since the elimination of archetypes and classes at the lower end. I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement.

But really, our biggest gripes are about our usefulness against epics. If you plan to raid, I think that experience may change your opinion.

Good to hear you're enjoying the class though.

Message Edited by Belizarius on 03-12-200608:22 PM

Manyak · 03-13-2006, 10:42 AM

Belizarius wrote:
I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement.

i dunno about u, but when i was that lvl it was wayyyy before LU13 and DoF. at lvl 35 or so, we were at the peak of our power imo. something between the new upgraded spells we got and the low hp/mp pools of heroics at that time made us really good. after that it was all downhill though :/

and looking at the spells today, id say that again we get a boost at lvl 28 with prismatic strife, and again at 35 with intensity, cuz those alone will increase DPS by leaps and bounds. and at that lvl, the difference in DPS between the classes doesnt stand out as much as it does at higher levels, so an illu will actually be pretty well off.

But anyway, like u said, our real problem lies against epics. Against heroics, some ppl consider us overpowered. Definately not that way with epics.

Impetus · 03-13-2006, 12:34 PM

DaMutation wrote:
Belizarius wrote:
I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement.
i dunno about u, but when i was that lvl it was wayyyy before LU13 and DoF. at lvl 35 or so, we were at the peak of our power imo. something between the new upgraded spells we got and the low hp/mp pools of heroics at that time made us really good. after that it was all downhill though :/

and looking at the spells today, id say that again we get a boost at lvl 28 with prismatic strife, and again at 35 with intensity, cuz those alone will increase DPS by leaps and bounds. and at that lvl, the difference in DPS between the classes doesnt stand out as much as it does at higher levels, so an illu will actually be pretty well off.

But anyway, like u said, our real problem lies against epics. Against heroics, some ppl consider us overpowered. Definately not that way with epics.

Original Speechless, original Nightmare, and original Prismatic Discord. Man, I still miss the first two.Anyway... to the OP -- um, gratz to you? The majority of the "naysaying" posts are about raiding, like the last two folks said.

Tuleri · 03-14-2006, 12:38 AM

I assume this thread is either a joke or OP has not read a single thread of the 000's on the actual enchanter issues. As someone previously posted, they are about raids.

It also is amusing that we are debating if our DPS is better then a healer or tank as opposed to a scout or mage....the irony makes me a sad illusionist.

Maker · 03-14-2006, 05:01 AM

No Joke, and so far I dont raid. Still love my little fella. I never got into playing the FOTM, so I don't worry about being leet in every category. Bottom line is the class is fun to me. Sure my wizzie kills faster, but he's boring. My zerker can take a better hit..still pretty boring. This class gets fun cc, decent dps, mana regen, and one hell of a light show. Could this perspective be diminished a bit as I get higher lev, perhaps, but I'm not playing so I can out DPS the other guys. Playing to have fun and be challenged. As for the raid issue, from reading all of my skill descriptions I can see why people are furious. When 80% of our CA's say WILL NOT WORK ON EPIC, there can be problem. But, since I don't raid=having fun SMILEY

Belizarius · 03-14-2006, 05:14 AM

Yeah, the old Speechless was awesome. Back, then, we could actually power drain mobs usefully.

What I meant, but didn't express well enough, was that our damage dealing really didn't scale well.

Didn't really have scaling issues with stuns and stifles, at least not until speechless became unusable (what level was that again?)

Don't get me wrong. When we have the opportunity to use our mezzes, stuns or stifles to good effect, it IS a lot of fun and rather satisfying.

Unfortunately, in a full group with a decent tank and healer, I often find now that there is no value to the group in mezzing, stuns or stifles. Average heroic encounters don't pose enough of a threat to a good, full group to need our mitigation abilities. Instead of stunning/stifling, I'm 100% DPS, and we don't shine at that, except maybe against groups.

Maybe the message is, avoid being in full, strong groups?

Message Edited by Belizarius on 03-13-200604:18 PM

Manyak · 03-14-2006, 05:46 AM

Belizarius wrote:
Didn't really have scaling issues with stuns and stifles, at least not until speechless became unusable (what level was that again?)

Got speechless at lvl 28, effective against mobs lvl 48 and below.

At 48 we got the so called upgrade, mind drain, which had nowhere as near the same mana drain, and decreased all skills of a mob by whatevr amount (noctivigiance, conjuration, etc).

NG23985_01 · 03-14-2006, 01:54 PM

Nevermind, I should pay more attention...

Message Edited by NG23985_01 on 03-14-200612:55 AM

03-11-2006, 12:12 PM	#1
Maker Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 38	To all of those who say we are no good..I am having a blast with this class. Granted, I am only level 22 right now, but in comparison to all my alts, Illusionist is the most intriguing and entertaining to interact with. While soloing I can clean house as long as I keep my skills up to date. While grouping.. I shine like a beacon, shutting down mobs left and right while maintaining mana regen. Do I raid, obviously not, but I can say for sure, this class has a lot of potential, and is a great break from being a tank on a daily basis (and my wizzie isn't half the fun as thi class)!!! __________________ 61 Monk 34 Dirge 47 Wizzie 21 Illusionist 30 Necro 28 ShadowKnight Mistmoore Server

03-11-2006, 02:48 PM	#3
Imokles Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	Flipmode wrote: Cant wait till you get your rude awakening. You will watch others grow powerful and you will remain static, unchanging, and weak. You will watch in horror as you are out DPS by healers and tanks. Ahh just wait and see. Just remember, there is no utility class in EQ2. Then it will dawn on you...then you will go back to your tank gladly. Well... no. I'm level59 and have yet to be out-DPSed by healers and tanks :smileywink:I still like my illusionist best (and also play others). So have fun! __________________

03-11-2006, 09:50 PM	#4
WAPCE Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 774	Imokles wrote: Well... no. I'm level59 and have yet to be out-DPSed by healers and tanks :smileywink: You must not have very good (or any?) Furies or Berserkers. __________________ Adblock Plus (with EasyList x3) Flashblock

03-11-2006, 10:11 PM	#5
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	Im ALWAYS the top dps in the group..... .......when theres no1 else in it. __________________

03-13-2006, 10:42 AM	#8
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	Belizarius wrote: I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement. i dunno about u, but when i was that lvl it was wayyyy before LU13 and DoF. at lvl 35 or so, we were at the peak of our power imo. something between the new upgraded spells we got and the low hp/mp pools of heroics at that time made us really good. after that it was all downhill though :/ and looking at the spells today, id say that again we get a boost at lvl 28 with prismatic strife, and again at 35 with intensity, cuz those alone will increase DPS by leaps and bounds. and at that lvl, the difference in DPS between the classes doesnt stand out as much as it does at higher levels, so an illu will actually be pretty well off. But anyway, like u said, our real problem lies against epics. Against heroics, some ppl consider us overpowered. Definately not that way with epics. __________________

03-11-2006, 01:48 PM	#2
Flipmode Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 301	Cant wait till you get your rude awakening. You will watch others grow powerful and you will remain static, unchanging, and weak. You will watch in horror as you are out DPS by healers and tanks. Ahh just wait and see. Just remember, there is no utility class in EQ2. Then it will dawn on you...then you will go back to your tank gladly.

03-12-2006, 01:39 AM	#6
NG23985_01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 116	Prior to the release of DoF, I took my 60 Fury and 50 Illusionist to Permafrost. (2 box) I did not mentor - the Fury was always level 60, and not ONCE, no matter how hard I tried, could my Fury outdamage my Illusionist. I'll include some parses below. I dont know why you crazy people continue to insist that Illusionist DPS is pathetic - it's not. Like the original poster, my Illusionist is a lot of fun to play, and its very versatile. I've got lots of choices of how to play the class. I can drop my Personae and use haste/dynamism on the group, or I can keep him active for his constant stuns and stifles, and he deals fairly respectable damage too. The lvl 47 Ad3 nukes for 450, and now after LU20 crits for over 500. That's fairly decent damage if you ask me.Go back to my Illusionist in Permafrost. I joined a pickup group there with my Illusionist (didnt have my Fury with me). We had a 51 Wizard and a 49 Necromancer with Ad3 mage pet, and you know what? I did more damage than either one of them! If you're getting outdamaged by a healer or tank, you're SLACKING! I had no problem inflicting more damage than the Wizard with his Ice Comet, or the Necromancer with his various spells and the Ad3 mage pet. That might be different in T7 though since Illusionist's 65 spell isnt a damage spell, but still... prior to T7, Illusionist's damage is quite good. I bet know what your problem is - you still play Enchanter with the defensive EQ1 mindset, and took that ridiculous M2 mezz or stun, over the M2 nuke or Prismatic Havoc. ~~Level 50 Illusionist VS Level 60 Fury parses, with both characters chain-nuking/dotting: (done in Permafrost) Fight 1: Illusionist: 6177 - Fury: 5107 Fight 2: Illusionist: 10718 - Fury: 6059 Fight 3: Illusionist: 4902 - Fury: 2668 Fight 4: Illusionist: 9983 - Fury: 6805 Fight 5: Illusionist: 7804 - Fury: 3680 ~~I acknowledge that Enchanters (both subs) need a bit of tweaking - lots of classes do, but as it stands right this very moment, Illusionists are a fun class to play, that can hold their own reasonably well.

03-13-2006, 09:20 AM	#7
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	Hmm I don't have too much trouble keeping ahead of priests and tanks, but I sure would struggle trying to match a sorceror or summoner. To the OP, there definitely were issues with scaling of Illusionist damage spells as you levelled, though I don't know what it's like since the elimination of archetypes and classes at the lower end. I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement. But really, our biggest gripes are about our usefulness against epics. If you plan to raid, I think that experience may change your opinion. Good to hear you're enjoying the class though. Message Edited by Belizarius on 03-12-200608:22 PM

03-13-2006, 12:34 PM	#9
Impetus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 340	DaMutation wrote: Belizarius wrote: I really didn't start to feel underpowered until mid 30s/low 40s, hence I would say, level 22 is just a bit early to pass judgement. i dunno about u, but when i was that lvl it was wayyyy before LU13 and DoF. at lvl 35 or so, we were at the peak of our power imo. something between the new upgraded spells we got and the low hp/mp pools of heroics at that time made us really good. after that it was all downhill though :/ and looking at the spells today, id say that again we get a boost at lvl 28 with prismatic strife, and again at 35 with intensity, cuz those alone will increase DPS by leaps and bounds. and at that lvl, the difference in DPS between the classes doesnt stand out as much as it does at higher levels, so an illu will actually be pretty well off. But anyway, like u said, our real problem lies against epics. Against heroics, some ppl consider us overpowered. Definately not that way with epics. Original Speechless, original Nightmare, and original Prismatic Discord. Man, I still miss the first two.Anyway... to the OP -- um, gratz to you? The majority of the "naysaying" posts are about raiding, like the last two folks said. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------ Aylowan, 70 Illusionist, Blackburrow

03-14-2006, 12:38 AM	#10
Tuleri Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	I assume this thread is either a joke or OP has not read a single thread of the 000's on the actual enchanter issues. As someone previously posted, they are about raids. It also is amusing that we are debating if our DPS is better then a healer or tank as opposed to a scout or mage....the irony makes me a sad illusionist. __________________ Tulerine, Illusionist Clone, Dirge FnF, AB

03-14-2006, 05:01 AM	#11
Maker Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 38	No Joke, and so far I dont raid. Still love my little fella. I never got into playing the FOTM, so I don't worry about being leet in every category. Bottom line is the class is fun to me. Sure my wizzie kills faster, but he's boring. My zerker can take a better hit..still pretty boring. This class gets fun cc, decent dps, mana regen, and one hell of a light show. Could this perspective be diminished a bit as I get higher lev, perhaps, but I'm not playing so I can out DPS the other guys. Playing to have fun and be challenged. As for the raid issue, from reading all of my skill descriptions I can see why people are furious. When 80% of our CA's say WILL NOT WORK ON EPIC, there can be problem. But, since I don't raid=having fun __________________ 61 Monk 34 Dirge 47 Wizzie 21 Illusionist 30 Necro 28 ShadowKnight Mistmoore Server

03-14-2006, 05:14 AM	#12
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	Yeah, the old Speechless was awesome. Back, then, we could actually power drain mobs usefully. What I meant, but didn't express well enough, was that our damage dealing really didn't scale well. Didn't really have scaling issues with stuns and stifles, at least not until speechless became unusable (what level was that again?) Don't get me wrong. When we have the opportunity to use our mezzes, stuns or stifles to good effect, it IS a lot of fun and rather satisfying. Unfortunately, in a full group with a decent tank and healer, I often find now that there is no value to the group in mezzing, stuns or stifles. Average heroic encounters don't pose enough of a threat to a good, full group to need our mitigation abilities. Instead of stunning/stifling, I'm 100% DPS, and we don't shine at that, except maybe against groups. Maybe the message is, avoid being in full, strong groups? Message Edited by Belizarius on 03-13-200604:18 PM

03-14-2006, 05:46 AM	#13
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	Belizarius wrote: Didn't really have scaling issues with stuns and stifles, at least not until speechless became unusable (what level was that again?) Got speechless at lvl 28, effective against mobs lvl 48 and below. At 48 we got the so called upgrade, mind drain, which had nowhere as near the same mana drain, and decreased all skills of a mob by whatevr amount (noctivigiance, conjuration, etc). __________________

03-14-2006, 01:54 PM	#14
NG23985_01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 116	Nevermind, I should pay more attention... Message Edited by NG23985_01 on 03-14-200612:55 AM