Illusionist Nerfed! YAY

[Jvaloth]

Anyone wanna tell me where my Master 1 Stupefy   stun went??

 

 

Oh and your stupid pricks at SOE,   Personae Twin (Sub 20 spell) has a mana cost of 306 to cast.

 

And we can no longer inspect a spell in your inventory and see what level spell it is.     So with the fubared mana costs  and the lack of spell level in the spell description, who knows [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is happening.

 

 

I'd like some compensation for the 2p I spent on the Master 1 that was removed from the game.

 

 

God [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] #!%!@#%!%!@$!@ SOE. 

 

 

[Xalibur]

get VOCAL on that illusionist! they really nerfed us again..

 

[Sto]

This is crap.  I play(ed) SWG, EQ1, n EQ2.   My whole SOE gaming experience has been nerf after nerf after nerf...  EQ1 was tolerable, until i tried playing my monk again recently, and it's all wacked now.  SWG was TOTALLY DESTROYED by CUs and the NGE (which is what EQ2 is starting to pop out).I loved playing a chanter in EQ1, CC was a joyous task for me.  That is the point of our job in EQ2, and not only the CC aspect, but the illusion line was great.  That's the other half of the reason for me being a chanter.  Now I start one in EQ2, only to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, and have NO decent illusion spells....  whooo i can look like everybody else, while a mage floats around as a dam elemental.  where;s our kewl line?  goin from common race to common race isnt that fun guys...we really need our CC to be useful again.  im not saying make it EQ1, but take some hints.  ur screwin THE CC class out of everything we once were.SOE really is a terrible company, and honestly the ONLY reason I'm still here is because I loved EQ1 and will be a fan (even if it's only of my first few years) forever.  You guys really need to pay attention and get some background on what the gamers are wantin.  You take locks out specifically so people can PL again, nerf the classes which "aren't as popular" or "pulling in a good revenue".We pay your bills, why not listen to what we have to say about things before you try and take it away from us.YOU DEVS BETTER READ THIS ONE!

[Elken]

This doesn't look good, I made lvl 10 enchanter yesterday so I have a big choice to make once I log in again. I also quit SWG because of the CU, quit W0W because of boredom and now I find I may be starting my character again because of another SOE nerf, I had enough of them fixing things that wern't broke in SWG I hope that isn't happening here.What exactly has been nerfed here?

[Jvaloth]

They removed one of our stuns thats on a seperate cast timer  than our other stun.   So essentially we only have 1 single target stun instead of 2.      The fact that I had it at Master 1 pisses me off further because they just ninja nerfed the ability and I get no new skill or any sort of compensation for money invested in that master.

 

 

So tired of them doing this crap...

 

 

We were'nt over powered in the slightest and they drop this bomb on us out of the blue.   Makes me wonder what the hell is going on in their heads sometimes.

 

 

[Impetus]

Stupefy was not really a separate timer. It was on the same timer as our encounter stun. (You should now have a Master 1 Bewilderment, as that is the lower level spell in that line, and replaces Stupefy.)

[fishtrad]

Losing a stun is like losing a limb.

We are just not the same, illusionist should get another stun to replace stupefy.

If not another spell then Dazzling array should have a longer duration, also reducing the recast time on sap will would help.

This was a very bad move IMO, and it needs to be adressed ASAP.

 

 

 

 

[Fizwi]

We only had 2 stuns in the first place...abilities tended to grow more specialized as you progress from mage to enchanter to illusionist.  Stupefy turns into the array line of stuns...You don't see anything wrong with preferring to use a level 10ish spell at level 60?

[zit]

with the revamp of lvl 1-20 all "coercerish" abilities get removed from illusionists.

charm, nuke+root, 2nd single target stun, etc. are coercer abilities, which coercers get upgrades to, while illu get different spell lines after lvl 20 (personae, nuke+mez, AE stun…)

but as we more or less have been mini coercer till lvl 20 before, we of course got used to and learnt to value some of their skills which now get replaced by illu spells and I can see why some illu are [Removed for Content].

It was an inconsistancy within our class in the first place that we had to play a coercer till lvl 20. I cannot count how often I did hear the question from young illusionists at what lvl they are going to get charm upgrade. There has always been a lot of irritation about why a spell line doesn’t get continued.

For that reason I do not consider it a nerf, I look at it as a correction. We are illusionists who have been forced to play a coercer till lvl 20. This has been pointed out before LU13 already and it wasn’t smart from the Devs to put it live that way IMO. Now they gonna change it and have us play illus from the very first day.

But if you liked your coercerish skills more, there will be the option to betray even at later lvl and become a coercer. Then you again can have a second single target stun etc.

 

 

[Kaan]

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zitha wrote:

with the revamp of lvl 1-20 all "coercerish" abilities get removed from illusionists.

charm, nuke+root, 2nd single target stun, etc. are coercer abilities, which coercers get upgrades to, while illu get different spell lines after lvl 20 (personae, nuke+mez, AE stun…)

but as we more or less have been mini coercer till lvl 20 before, we of course got used to and learnt to value some of their skills which now get replaced by illu spells and I can see why some illu are [Removed for Content].

It was an inconsistancy within our class in the first place that we had to play a coercer till lvl 20. I cannot count how often I did hear the question from young illusionists at what lvl they are going to get charm upgrade. There has always been a lot of irritation about why a spell line doesn’t get continued.

For that reason I do not consider it a nerf, I look at it as a correction. We are illusionists who have been forced to play a coercer till lvl 20. This has been pointed out before LU13 already and it wasn’t smart from the Devs to put it live that way IMO. Now they gonna change it and have us play illus from the very first day.

But if you liked your coercerish skills more, there will be the option to betray even at later lvl and become a coercer. Then you again can have a second single target stun etc.

 

 

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Well said!  Couldn't have said it better myself!  /clap

[WAPCE]

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zitha wrote:

For that reason I do not consider it a nerf, I look at it as a correction.

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I agree 100%. That being said, as I read more and more reactions to the changes, I think a LOT of classes were using grey abilities to fill in gaps in their skill set, and now that they're gone, those classes are left with just that, gaps. I tend to do doubt much attention will be paid to it, though, and people will just adjust.Personally, I liked playing a slightly different class to 20 with all the classes I've played. It's extremely boring to level from 20 to 60 and get the same 10 skills upgraded identically over and over with no variety. I feel bad for people creating new toons who are now facing the same thing all the way from 1 to 60.

[fishtrad]

Stupefy had a longer duration than the group stun, and of course it had the hate reduction.

I'm sure the hate reduction didn't do much, but hey it was there.

The longer duration made it more useful for single target stunning than the group line.

That is why I used it at lvl 60. I have to agree that a level 60 character should not be useing a lvl 17ish spell, but the fact is it had it benefits.

Zitha you make some valid points, good post. I guess We'll just have to deal with it, but IMO it was a down grade.

I hope tier 7 has a lot to offer for our class.

 

[Chrysostom]

Fizwick,First let me say that I almost always agree with you, but I urge you to consider your statement above about prefering a spell because of its level instead of its usefulness.  I do not particularly miss stupify ( it had a longer duration but also longer recast then array), but I GREATLY miss ego shock. Why? Because the root compent of that spell was WAY better then the lame damage and stupid mez we get on its upgrades. The real lesson here should be for sony, btw. If people prefer these low level spells over the higher ones, then the upper level ones sure are not much for upgrades. I basically never casted my higher level nuke/mez, but I used my nuke/root in almost EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. I do understand that removing the generic classes is probably good for the game, but the side-effect nerfage should be compensated for. And honestly, I really feel the loss of ego shock. It was a huge nerf for me and my play style.Chrysostom, 60th Illusionist, AB

Message Edited by Chrysostom on 02-03-200610:11 AM

Message Edited by Chrysostom on 02-03-200610:14 AM

[Pins]

Hrm, at Level 60, in theory, you should be using Level 47-60 spells, not Level 11(or is it 12) spells. But besides that, big deal. Things got changed. It is only a nerf if you were still using spells that were grey. I never saw a use in using a 7.5s root with a 15s duration. I felt why use it, it isn't even that good for soloing, when if joust your pet in and out while he's casting and you're stunning, his root can hold a LOT better. Very rarely do I see his root drop while I'm fighting.As for losing it, big fricking deal. There are more important issues than losing a spell that barely affects playstyle.

[Tuleri]

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Fizwick wrote:You don't see anything wrong with preferring to use a level 10ish spell at level 60?

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AMEN!!!

[Krelor]

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zitha wrote:

It was an inconsistancy within our class in the first place that we had to play a coercer till lvl 20. I cannot count how often I did hear the question from young illusionists at what lvl they are going to get charm upgrade. There has always been a lot of irritation about why a spell line doesn’t get continued.

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Lostcount +1. I too wondered when my young Enchanter would get a charm upgrade

The adept 1 being replaced by an adept 1 Personae at my chanter's Illusionist's current 16th level. Ah well, I did enjoy having a variety of pets that could turn on me at any moment. So coercer for that eh... Hmm, will consider betrayal after a good few more levels and see if I enjoy Illusionist still

[Chrysostom]

Reality is way better than thoery.  How can one not see that two roots are way better than one?

[Pixel Tr]

I'm [Removed for Content] that we lost Stupefy as well. I used it in every fight when soloing.It was simply a superior spell to the group stun it tunred into in later levels. It had a longer duration, the hate reduction and lower mana cost.

[merkla]

instead whining of the loss of 2 spells that arent illusionist spells.. what about focus on our broek mana drain spell line and on other bigger issue we have?

 

and yes, well devs shouold look here and at least tell us if they think we are broken (i think they realized that too oterhwise they woudlnt made sticky the great zickwik post) and specially if they will fix us (soon)

 

 

[MyChatBot]

Losing stupefy TOTALLY sucks. It is a major nerf. This spell was key to one of the two things we do well, stun and mez.Thanks a lot SoE. I've defended this class to the death since day 1 but now you've really blown it. I mean, are you going to try and convince illusionists that they are TOO powerful?

And am I now seeing they took intensity? Anything else to make the class less interesting?

Message Edited by MyChatBot on 02-03-200609:35 PM

[Fizwi]

To clarify:I don't think that Ego Shock or Stupefy were useless -- in fact, I too used Ego Shock fairly regularly (nevermind that it worked on epics).My point was, it's just a little illogical for the T2 spell to be preferable to its successors, so I 100% understand why the change makes sense.  It would be much harder to stomach if the change were completely irrational.

[MyChatBot]

So flip the order of progression. But don't just take it away.Oh and ty for the gold back that so many of us spent on the masters.

[DBozLizardman]

Ok, so we lost 2 spells that were considered useful but were never really a part of our class to begin with (as someone mentioned they were more 'coercerish' spells). There are 3 ways to respond to this. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and whine, which seems to be the popular if completely ineffective choice, usually reserved for those with a mental age not exceeding 10 years; suck it up and adapt, which may be difficult but is doable (I myself lament the loss of Stupefy), and is likely the only true option anyway; or try and leave some logical, polite /feedback to try to improve the situation, hoping SOE might actually listen (and they sometimes do, despite what people say). I'm going with option #3; see if these suggestions make sense to anyone:- Improve the damage on the nuke portion of the root/mez, and replace the mez with a stun;- Add the hate-reduction component (my primary use for Stupefy, actually) to the Bewilderment line and increase the duration (at least 4.5 seconds, better than the 3 it is now)Would that shut the whiners up?

[Manyak]

fyi guys, all the coercers stupefy spells over lvl 20 can be cast while running. so having a mezz that can be cast while stunned, and a stun that is uninterruptable, and the advantage of having TWO roots when illus are supposed to be the CC masters, i think we r really being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed over

Message Edited by DaMutation on 02-06-200612:53 PM

[Tuleri]

we have 2 single target mez, they have one.  Their stun cannot be interupted, our mez cannot be interupted...failing to see the problem here.  We can lock down mobs easier then they can PERIOD. 

 

The real problem is...when the heck do you ever need to mez in this game....

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DaMutation wrote:

fyi guys, all the coercers stupefy spells over lvl 20 can be cast while running. so having a mezz that can be cast while stunned, and a stun that is uninterruptable, and the advantage of having TWO roots when illus are supposed to be the CC masters, i think we r really being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed over

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[Mongowth]

Can see where it comes from in the sense of keeping the customers happy but then there has to be a definite line between freeing up the game quantity/quality for the customer and then making it a game for complete n00bs from level 1 to 60.

 

All I can see is what happened with WoW happening to this game. Gets too easy to level up to 60, which in comparison to when I levelled up shortly after game release, it's ridiculously easy to level up in the game now!

 

Listen by all means to customers but find the line that can't be gone below...

 

I'm sure the Dev's are fed up with listening/reading whinging and moaning after each update they do but seriously, find the game that you want to deliver and deliver it with sticking to it leaving slight room for tweaks but not UBERNERFS!

 

You're not going to keep everyone happy, it's impossible!!

 

Also please stop covering things up that haven't been addressed for a loooooooong time with new expansions etc... FIX THEM FIRST!

 

and for a general rant.....

 

Stealth nerfs are a complete and utter ballache tbh... Absolutely nothing was said openly about mental core breach being reduced to +50 when it was initially +350 and also nothing about the overall out-of-combat regen... It's "trying to be sneaky" things like this that pee people off!

 

It wouldn't hurt to post every change that will be made and people truly wouldn't care how long the post was as long as it was there, failure to read is user error not Dev/GMs.

 

However, please make the game something of a challenge before, or at least something of a challenge.

 

Ty for fixing lockjaw... FINALLY!

 

Instead of making things near impossible look at a good way of making things creatively hard. Went into Harclave with my assassin at level 35 on extremely hard... They were all orange. That's not difficult, that's impossible! How can you kill what you can't even hit?! Stuns and stifles from NPCs, how can you kill what you can't even hit... again! as well as heal yourself or runaway... Impossible.

[Manyak]

**wrong thread, no idea why my post ended up here**

Message Edited by DaMutation on 02-06-200612:54 PM

[KniteShayd]

The spells that were taken from us were never useless. 

The hate reduc on Stupefy saved me many times throughout my nerfed life, all the way up to now(52). the stun was awesome and added to our repetiore of spell usage in a dungeon with unlinked adds.  It added to dps in the sense that the mobs would be doing less damage to the tank/pet, which in turn gave us some 'free' hits.  I Strongly agree that this spell should have had some sort of replacement.

The root on Ego Shock was also an emergency life saver as well.  I used it when i pulled aggro and when the mob went after a mage/priest to giv my root time to refresh if it broke or was resisted.

I would like to know if Coercers got nerfed too.

Btw, we got the 'coercerish spells' because when we were Enchanters, was so we could get the 'flavour' of both classes so we could decide whether we would betray or stay with our city.:smileytongue:

[Impetus]

I gotta disagree with you all. The hate reduction on Stupefy was negligible. Wasn't it something like 150 hate? That's almost nothing.And I don't understand why people continue to ignore the encounter wide stun. You don't find a 4 second stun with a 0.5 second cast time to be useful? Heck, multiply that by a 5-mob encounter and you've got 20 mob-seconds of stunning. (Haha, mob-seconds, I like that new unit.) And it has the special effect of being a zero-hate spell, according to its description.To me, the 0.5 second cast time is much more useful than a 2.0 second cast time on stupefy. Quick stun, then use long stun or root. That is much more useful if you or a healer pulled aggro than a 2s casting time stun that only reduces ~150 hate and also lasts about 4 seconds.I guess losing ego shock is something, but for soloing, our pet practically chain-casts root. I don't really see why you'd need ego shock, too.I just think there are other things to complain about, and ask devs to adjust. We have bigger fish to fry than single-target vs encounter stuns.

[Pins]

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Impetus wrote:I gotta disagree with you all. The hate reduction on Stupefy was negligible. Wasn't it something like 150 hate? That's almost nothing.And I don't understand why people continue to ignore the encounter wide stun. You don't find a 4 second stun with a 0.5 second cast time to be useful? Heck, multiply that by a 5-mob encounter and you've got 20 mob-seconds of stunning. (Haha, mob-seconds, I like that new unit.) And it has the special effect of being a zero-hate spell, according to its description.To me, the 0.5 second cast time is much more useful than a 2.0 second cast time on stupefy. Quick stun, then use long stun or root. That is much more useful if you or a healer pulled aggro than a 2s casting time stun that only reduces ~150 hate and also lasts about 4 seconds.I guess losing ego shock is something, but for soloing, our pet practically chain-casts root. I don't really see why you'd need ego shock, too.I just think there are other things to complain about, and ask devs to adjust. We have bigger fish to fry than single-target vs encounter stuns.

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While I agree with what you say, it's a 1.0 second cast time