Details on our new charm spell

MillsFairchild · 08-05-2005, 09:32 PM

Message deleted based on clarification.

Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 12:39 PM

Malle · 08-05-2005, 10:08 PM

MillsFairchild wrote:

Charms target with 100% chance of success

under certain conditions

Charms target with 200% chance of success

under certain conditions

Ok I dont get that at all. Anyone shed any light on that please?

a) What are the conditions?

b) How can the same spell have 2 diff chances of success?

CanisLupos · 08-05-2005, 10:11 PM

MillsFairchild wrote:
From the coercer's board, there's a picture of a level 47 Enchanter spell called Dominate. I assume it's the same exact thing we get.

Dominate (Apprentice I)

Grants the coercer control over target opponent. This spell does not work on opponents more powerful than the coercer. Upgrades to this spell improve the duration of the charm.

Power: 272
Concentration: 3
Casting time: 6s
Recovery: .5s
Recast: 0s
Duration: 10 minutes

Charms target with 100% chance of success

under certain conditions

Charms target with 200% chance of success

under certain conditions

Does not effect Heroic or Epic targets

Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 11:01 AM

A) Don't think we know that yet.

B) Because there are two different sets of conditions that could modify the chance.

Roxxanne · 08-05-2005, 10:16 PM

My theory is that SOE gave illusionists charm because the importance of charm is going up, and becoming a key element of the enchanter classes. SOE does not have the resources to try to separately balance and position coercer and illusionist subclasses, with and without charm. So SOE has given up on there being any fundamental difference between illusionist and coercer, and just having the "flavor" type stuff be a little different. I can live with that, as long as the enchanter class is good.

I am looking forward to being able to play with charm. It could open up some very interesting tactical opportunities.

Malle · 08-05-2005, 10:19 PM

CanisLupos wrote:

MillsFairchild wrote:
From the coercer's board, there's a picture of a level 47 Enchanter spell called Dominate. I assume it's the same exact thing we get.

Dominate (Apprentice I)

Grants the coercer control over target opponent. This spell does not work on opponents more powerful than the coercer. Upgrades to this spell improve the duration of the charm.

Power: 272
Concentration: 3
Casting time: 6s
Recovery: .5s
Recast: 0s
Duration: 10 minutes

Charms target with 100% chance of success

under certain conditions

Charms target with 200% chance of success

under certain conditions

Does not effect Heroic or Epic targets

Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 11:01 AM

A) Don't think we know that yet.

B) Because there are two different sets of conditions that could modify the chance.

But if we can charm something with 100% chance of success, that's it charmed. How can there be 200% chance of success? 100% is every time, no failures :smileysurprised: Perhaps I'm just being dense- I've been grinding tradeskill writs too long, hehe.

DivvyLy · 08-05-2005, 10:26 PM

And I hate to ask the stupid question but, the way things are going...Do we know if we can attack mobs with this charmed pet? Its not some 'entertainment' spell so you can parade around with a pet bug or rat or whatever that doesn't do anything but attack you when the spell wears off...?

Elly

MillsFairchild · 08-05-2005, 10:32 PM

The coercers who have used it say it acts just like a conj pet. You can tell it to attack/stay/follow... whatever. You can even buff it if you want.

Urbanna · 08-05-2005, 10:49 PM

MillsFairchild wrote:The coercers who have used it say it acts just like a conj pet. You can tell it to attack/stay/follow... whatever. You can even buff it if you want.

Hmm...from all the feedback i've been reading...it sounds like illusionists are basically going to be a pet class solo...and a slightly better dps class in groups with less helpful buffs. Rather dissappointing =( I like the charm and all, but still no *useful* illusion-type spells? Was hoping I could get back into playing my chanter.....

Vurin · 08-05-2005, 11:32 PM

I'd like to point on that currently on test Illusionists get the lvl 10 charm and none of the follow ups. Instead we get the personae series of spells. Which is basically just a double down Illusionist pet. its a lot better than Constructs, and it DoTs and Stuns and stuff, but its still a pet.

Chath · 08-06-2005, 12:02 AM

According to the screen shot in the coercer forum, Dominate is a 47th level enchanter spell, not coercer spell. It looks like illusionists get that one, too.

Hermex D'illusionai · 08-06-2005, 12:29 AM

Roxxanne wrote:

My theory is that SOE gave illusionists charm because the importance of charm is going up, and becoming a key element of the enchanter classes. SOE does not have the resources to try to separately balance and position coercer and illusionist subclasses, with and without charm. So SOE has given up on there being any fundamental difference between illusionist and coercer, and just having the "flavor" type stuff be a little different. I can live with that, as long as the enchanter class is good.

I am looking forward to being able to play with charm. It could open up some very interesting tactical opportunities.

They certainly have the ability to keep the distinction. They simply give Illusionists an Illusionary pet. Make it cost conentrations or make it only castable as a combat spell but have it actually have some HP's and a Taunt that allows us to have it absorb some damage and not us. I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near the effectiveness of summoner pets but something relatively effective would have been fine with me as a compensation for charming. they already have the object in the code, just need to modify it /shrug

Darmash · 08-06-2005, 11:37 PM

We don't want a pet to make up for all that we lose with the combat/spell change. If we wanted a pet we would play conjurers. Pets (charmed or not) are the plague when you try to mez something (this, nerfed to hell too) or just to control anything. Remove the pet, remove the charm, we don't want them, and will not use them.

Oghi · 08-07-2005, 12:17 AM

We're a DPS class now, folks. We were always intended to be, as that is the basis of the archetype system. You may not want pets or doppelgangers, but SOE has to give us more damage in *some* form. If it were just nukes, we'd be sorcerers. I think the concept of the Persona Duplicate spell is quite nice, and it fits our class well. Charm may not be a perfect fit, but it'll be a useful tool and a way to solo. If you don't care about soloing, that's fine -- but many folks do. All classes are supposed to be able to solo.

In all, some of these changes look promising. We'll no longer be toothless mana batteries. Instead, we'll have a couple of choices for how we do damage (charm or duplicate). At least that will require some choices and some tactics. It's certainly more interesting than just having bigger nukes.

SunT · 08-08-2005, 07:12 AM

What Planet are you playin on Oghier?

We will NEVER be a DPS class. Certainly not with this propowed or the current spellset.

OMG give it up already.

We got a SLIGHT increase in DPS. SLIGHT. You think this paltry bump is gonna make you a Warlock? You will do 1/5 of a Warlock DPS.

At the same time we got nerfs of CC and buffs. Worse Root. 1 sec better on stun. Woot 1 sec is gonna make you a God. HALF the duration on your Mez, Half the speed on your Haste and all this stuff takes Conc slots of which you have five. So start choosing. Good luck being brought along for DPS dude. You will be brought for situational use of buffs. Those buffs will negate you possible DPS. You will still suck.

You talk like we are the new DPS God or something, lol. We are slightly higher and we paid heavilly for it.

Are you reading the same spellset as I am? Did you read anyone elses?

seamo · 08-08-2005, 09:29 AM

The one thing everyone seems to forget is we only have 5 concentration slots .

So if we use the persona duplicate ( takes 3 slots ) insight ( 1 slot ) haste for pet ( 1 slot )

pray tell , how will we survive any battle ? no self buffs , you honestly think this so called pet will keep the mob off of us and be a good tank ?

I am sorry , but i do not believe this pet will solve our solo issues .

Even our own self buff ( magi shielding) takes 3 slots . Which IMO is @#$#@@$. ( should only cost us 1 slot no more )

As for the insight , Well this is so far off the bandwagon of what alot of Enc's were wanting or seeking .

I am not to worried over the lower power regen , But am concerned over the fact i can only buff my group and it takes 1 slot .

Simply put there are not enough Enc's nor Bards in eq2 to have one in each group on a raid . ( and even if there were more Bards , most Bards hate the idea of having to now breeze raids ).

The invis nerf is totally uncalled for and needs to go back to the way it was , same thing with our mezzes .

I really don't mind the fact that they want to use concentration slots for almost everything . What i do mind is the amount of slots each of them requires .

We already have a pretty lame pet as it is . why not just exchange it for the dupilcate and require no concentration slot , that way we can still self buff and insight ourselves .

Everyone is correct the SLIGHT dps upgrade does in no way compensate for the loss of most of our utilities nor the nerf to invis and insight and will go so far as to say it comes no where close to making us a viable member of any group or raid .

I have guildies already asking what it is i will be doing on raids seeing as alot of classes Stifle , Stun , mez , and now others are giving power . The majority of our debuffs don't or seldom even work on epic mobs ( Yet other classes can stun / stifle named ? ). I most certainly will not be a nuker or make a major difference by dpsing the mob ( even casting every dot and nuking with Ho's unlikely to see much damage done to named and epic mobs) .

When all is said and done , We will still be the lowest in every area of this game . ( and here we thought we were being fixed )

Sea

08-05-2005, 09:32 PM	#1
MillsFairchild Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 381	Message deleted based on clarification. Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 12:39 PM __________________

08-05-2005, 10:08 PM	#2
Malle Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	MillsFairchild wrote: Charms target with 100% chance of success under certain conditions Charms target with 200% chance of success under certain conditions Ok I dont get that at all. Anyone shed any light on that please? a) What are the conditions? b) How can the same spell have 2 diff chances of success? __________________ _______________________________________________ Sarai Feybourn, lvl 55 Illusionist, 58 Sage Proud member of Phoenix Legion, Runnyeye server

08-05-2005, 10:11 PM	#3
CanisLupos Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	MillsFairchild wrote: From the coercer's board, there's a picture of a level 47 Enchanter spell called Dominate. I assume it's the same exact thing we get. Dominate (Apprentice I) Grants the coercer control over target opponent. This spell does not work on opponents more powerful than the coercer. Upgrades to this spell improve the duration of the charm. Power: 272 Concentration: 3 Casting time: 6s Recovery: .5s Recast: 0s Duration: 10 minutes Charms target with 100% chance of success under certain conditions Charms target with 200% chance of success under certain conditions Does not effect Heroic or Epic targets Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 11:01 AM A) Don't think we know that yet. B) Because there are two different sets of conditions that could modify the chance. __________________ __________________________________________________ _______________ Ratts, Berserker of Mistmmoore

08-05-2005, 10:16 PM	#4
Roxxanne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	My theory is that SOE gave illusionists charm because the importance of charm is going up, and becoming a key element of the enchanter classes. SOE does not have the resources to try to separately balance and position coercer and illusionist subclasses, with and without charm. So SOE has given up on there being any fundamental difference between illusionist and coercer, and just having the "flavor" type stuff be a little different. I can live with that, as long as the enchanter class is good. I am looking forward to being able to play with charm. It could open up some very interesting tactical opportunities. __________________ Blert - 58 Illusionist / 60 Sage -- Nektulos Zing - 25 Assassin / 29 Jeweler -- Venekor

08-05-2005, 10:19 PM	#5
Malle Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	CanisLupos wrote: MillsFairchild wrote: From the coercer's board, there's a picture of a level 47 Enchanter spell called Dominate. I assume it's the same exact thing we get. Dominate (Apprentice I) Grants the coercer control over target opponent. This spell does not work on opponents more powerful than the coercer. Upgrades to this spell improve the duration of the charm. Power: 272 Concentration: 3 Casting time: 6s Recovery: .5s Recast: 0s Duration: 10 minutes Charms target with 100% chance of success under certain conditions Charms target with 200% chance of success under certain conditions Does not effect Heroic or Epic targets Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 08-05-2005 11:01 AM A) Don't think we know that yet. B) Because there are two different sets of conditions that could modify the chance. But if we can charm something with 100% chance of success, that's it charmed. How can there be 200% chance of success? 100% is every time, no failures :smileysurprised: Perhaps I'm just being dense- I've been grinding tradeskill writs too long, hehe. __________________ _______________________________________________ Sarai Feybourn, lvl 55 Illusionist, 58 Sage Proud member of Phoenix Legion, Runnyeye server

08-05-2005, 10:26 PM	#6
DivvyLy Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 30	And I hate to ask the stupid question but, the way things are going...Do we know if we can attack mobs with this charmed pet? Its not some 'entertainment' spell so you can parade around with a pet bug or rat or whatever that doesn't do anything but attack you when the spell wears off...? Elly

08-05-2005, 10:32 PM	#7
MillsFairchild Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 381	The coercers who have used it say it acts just like a conj pet. You can tell it to attack/stay/follow... whatever. You can even buff it if you want. __________________

08-05-2005, 10:49 PM	#8
Urbanna General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 326	MillsFairchild wrote:The coercers who have used it say it acts just like a conj pet. You can tell it to attack/stay/follow... whatever. You can even buff it if you want. Hmm...from all the feedback i've been reading...it sounds like illusionists are basically going to be a pet class solo...and a slightly better dps class in groups with less helpful buffs. Rather dissappointing =( I like the charm and all, but still no useful illusion-type spells? Was hoping I could get back into playing my chanter..... __________________

08-05-2005, 11:32 PM	#9
Vurin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 324	I'd like to point on that currently on test Illusionists get the lvl 10 charm and none of the follow ups. Instead we get the personae series of spells. Which is basically just a double down Illusionist pet. its a lot better than Constructs, and it DoTs and Stuns and stuff, but its still a pet. __________________

08-06-2005, 12:02 AM	#10
Chath Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 117	According to the screen shot in the coercer forum, Dominate is a 47th level enchanter spell, not coercer spell. It looks like illusionists get that one, too.

08-06-2005, 12:29 AM	#11
Hermex D'illusionai Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 78	Roxxanne wrote: My theory is that SOE gave illusionists charm because the importance of charm is going up, and becoming a key element of the enchanter classes. SOE does not have the resources to try to separately balance and position coercer and illusionist subclasses, with and without charm. So SOE has given up on there being any fundamental difference between illusionist and coercer, and just having the "flavor" type stuff be a little different. I can live with that, as long as the enchanter class is good. I am looking forward to being able to play with charm. It could open up some very interesting tactical opportunities. They certainly have the ability to keep the distinction. They simply give Illusionists an Illusionary pet. Make it cost conentrations or make it only castable as a combat spell but have it actually have some HP's and a Taunt that allows us to have it absorb some damage and not us. I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near the effectiveness of summoner pets but something relatively effective would have been fine with me as a compensation for charming. they already have the object in the code, just need to modify it /shrug

08-06-2005, 11:37 PM	#12
Darmash Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 138	We don't want a pet to make up for all that we lose with the combat/spell change. If we wanted a pet we would play conjurers. Pets (charmed or not) are the plague when you try to mez something (this, nerfed to hell too) or just to control anything. Remove the pet, remove the charm, we don't want them, and will not use them.

08-07-2005, 12:17 AM	#13
Oghi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 331	We're a DPS class now, folks. We were always intended to be, as that is the basis of the archetype system. You may not want pets or doppelgangers, but SOE has to give us more damage in some form. If it were just nukes, we'd be sorcerers. I think the concept of the Persona Duplicate spell is quite nice, and it fits our class well. Charm may not be a perfect fit, but it'll be a useful tool and a way to solo. If you don't care about soloing, that's fine -- but many folks do. All classes are supposed to be able to solo. In all, some of these changes look promising. We'll no longer be toothless mana batteries. Instead, we'll have a couple of choices for how we do damage (charm or duplicate). At least that will require some choices and some tactics. It's certainly more interesting than just having bigger nukes. __________________ Oghier Sleepytoes, Dwarf Bartender Aramur, Illusionist Arcane Masters, Antonia Bayle

08-08-2005, 07:12 AM	#14
SunT Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 821	What Planet are you playin on Oghier? We will NEVER be a DPS class. Certainly not with this propowed or the current spellset. OMG give it up already. We got a SLIGHT increase in DPS. SLIGHT. You think this paltry bump is gonna make you a Warlock? You will do 1/5 of a Warlock DPS. At the same time we got nerfs of CC and buffs. Worse Root. 1 sec better on stun. Woot 1 sec is gonna make you a God. HALF the duration on your Mez, Half the speed on your Haste and all this stuff takes Conc slots of which you have five. So start choosing. Good luck being brought along for DPS dude. You will be brought for situational use of buffs. Those buffs will negate you possible DPS. You will still suck. You talk like we are the new DPS God or something, lol. We are slightly higher and we paid heavilly for it. Are you reading the same spellset as I am? Did you read anyone elses? __________________ Retired Roamin Nome, 70 Illusionist/60Jeweler Crack Bot, Nektulos Argyll, 60 Paladin / Heresy, 62 Defiler

08-08-2005, 09:29 AM	#15
seamo Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15	The one thing everyone seems to forget is we only have 5 concentration slots . So if we use the persona duplicate ( takes 3 slots ) insight ( 1 slot ) haste for pet ( 1 slot ) pray tell , how will we survive any battle ? no self buffs , you honestly think this so called pet will keep the mob off of us and be a good tank ? I am sorry , but i do not believe this pet will solve our solo issues . Even our own self buff ( magi shielding) takes 3 slots . Which IMO is @#$#@@$. ( should only cost us 1 slot no more ) As for the insight , Well this is so far off the bandwagon of what alot of Enc's were wanting or seeking . I am not to worried over the lower power regen , But am concerned over the fact i can only buff my group and it takes 1 slot . Simply put there are not enough Enc's nor Bards in eq2 to have one in each group on a raid . ( and even if there were more Bards , most Bards hate the idea of having to now breeze raids ). The invis nerf is totally uncalled for and needs to go back to the way it was , same thing with our mezzes . I really don't mind the fact that they want to use concentration slots for almost everything . What i do mind is the amount of slots each of them requires . We already have a pretty lame pet as it is . why not just exchange it for the dupilcate and require no concentration slot , that way we can still self buff and insight ourselves . Everyone is correct the SLIGHT dps upgrade does in no way compensate for the loss of most of our utilities nor the nerf to invis and insight and will go so far as to say it comes no where close to making us a viable member of any group or raid . I have guildies already asking what it is i will be doing on raids seeing as alot of classes Stifle , Stun , mez , and now others are giving power . The majority of our debuffs don't or seldom even work on epic mobs ( Yet other classes can stun / stifle named ? ). I most certainly will not be a nuker or make a major difference by dpsing the mob ( even casting every dot and nuking with Ho's unlikely to see much damage done to named and epic mobs) . When all is said and done , We will still be the lowest in every area of this game . ( and here we thought we were being fixed ) Sea