Devastation... less devastating

Kuva · 02-26-2005, 10:51 AM

Big Update #4 just went to the Test server. Huge list of changes, see the Test Server Updates forum. But here's the Warlock part:

- Warlock changes:
- Bellengere's Sapping Salvo has received the same upgrades as Dark Distortion.
- Heneva's Viral Blast now has the same icon as Noxious Bolt.
- Devastation had its reuse timer adjusted to 45 seconds.

From reading the forums, it looks to me that this is an attempt to level the DPS playing field between Wizzies and Warlocks at high levels.

I'm levelling an alt to be a Wiz or War, was favoring Warlock because (1) I was told they solo better, and (2) Devastation was said to be the most powerful total-damage spell in the game. Would appreciate thoughts on whether I should change my decision...

Message Edited by Kuvala on 02-25-2005 09:51 PM

Message Edited by Kuvala on 02-25-2005 09:52 PM

aegil · 02-26-2005, 11:10 AM

Feel free to change your decision...

Your decision to be a BIG BABY!

I'm tired of listening to people cry and moan about how they picked a calss and now it's getting a nerf to ONE high end spell and suddenly theres a flood of people saying how they want to emmigrate to other classes cause they don't have the biggest baddest spell anymore. BOO FREAKING HOO.

on second thought, don't change your decision. Go play a Wiz or a warrior and don't let the door hit you in the back on your way out.

Flachett · 02-26-2005, 11:52 AM

aegil wrote:

Feel free to change your decision...

Your decision to be a BIG BABY!

I'm tired of listening to people cry and moan about how they picked a calss and now it's getting a nerf to ONE high end spell and suddenly theres a flood of people saying how they want to emmigrate to other classes cause they don't have the biggest baddest spell anymore. BOO FREAKING HOO.

on second thought, don't change your decision. Go play a Wiz or a warrior and don't let the door hit you in the back on your way out.

/clap

Magu · 02-26-2005, 01:26 PM

wow he asks a question and you hand him his [FAAR-NERFED!] . . okany wayno this shoulnt effect your choice it was just ment to put the spell on the same level as IC, same dmg+- same timer +-

Kuva · 02-26-2005, 09:18 PM

Well thanks for the "BIG BABY" comments. I guess I should include in my thinking, whether I want to be associated with a class that has people like you. Probably I don't.

tennj · 02-26-2005, 09:32 PM

Kuvala wrote:

Well thanks for the "BIG BABY" comments. I guess I should include in my thinking, whether I want to be associated with a class that has people like you. Probably I don't.

I think the issue here is that warlocks have always been the less vocal about our dps situation and unbalances. It's true, if you look at the wizzy and warlock boards there are much more wizzy's who go into page long rants about how they're not uber enough. Now we were all upset for a while because both our classes were severly underpowered. This "nerf" is , in my opinion, a result of said wizzy's throwing a temper tantrum on the boards about the dps of devestation vs Ice commet.

I didn't think you were being a baby but some people may have took what you said the wrong way. I'm sure that devestation is a great spell still and I can't wait to get off work and go home and get it. Either way wizzards and warlocks are both great classes now and it all comes down to which one you would enjoy playing more. If you are just looking for that uber leet orange number above the mob's head, go wizzy. If you are interrested in doing damage in a number of different ways then perhaps the path of the warlock is for you.

Kaz · 02-26-2005, 11:49 PM

If they do this change then they need to make it so that Devastation from two or more warlocks stack.

Splatterpunk28 · 02-27-2005, 03:37 AM

Kaziq wrote:
If they do this change then they need to make it so that Devastation from two or more warlocks stack.

There's no way they are going to make a DoT stack for the same class (and they shouldn't.)

I'd be much happier if they made Dark Nebula worthwhile. Actually, I'd prefer them to scrap that entire line (putrid cloud/grievous blast/dark nebula) and give us single target nukes instead. But, I know I'm dreaming even to suggest it.

Dae · 02-27-2005, 05:48 AM

Quote:

There's no way they are going to make a DoT stack for the same class (and they shouldn't.)

Are you mad? DoT stacking NEEDS to be in the game. It means that members of the same class STACK in groups and raids instead of being limited by each other. You know BSS is currently not usable if another Warlock just cast it on the same mob? That's because of the DoT component.As a side note BSS already received the same upgrade as DD so I'm not sure why they're reporting it as something new. That is unless BSS is now going to do even more damage.

Splatterpunk28 · 02-27-2005, 01:25 PM

Daerv wrote:

Quote:

There's no way they are going to make a DoT stack for the same class (and they shouldn't.)

Are you mad? DoT stacking NEEDS to be in the game. It means that members of the same class STACK in groups and raids instead of being limited by each other. You know BSS is currently not usable if another Warlock just cast it on the same mob? That's because of the DoT component.

I absolutely disagree.

IMHO anything to dissuade raid or group class favorites is a plus in my book.

Message Edited by Splatterpunk28 on 02-27-2005 10:42 PM

Dae · 02-27-2005, 08:06 PM

You just answered your own point. A group with one DoT'ing class is going to actively seek any class but the class they already have. This hurts anyone of the same class that is lfg or wanting to contribute to a raid etc. Everyone should stack in a group with everyone else.Your idea is nice in theory however in practice no one is ever going to have one of everything. It forces people into a certain way of playing. That is bad for the player base not to mention friends who actually want to play the same class.You talk about reducing raid/group class favouritism and yet your idea (the way it is now) does the exact opposite of that.

Kaz · 02-27-2005, 10:05 PM

Splatterpunk28 wrote:
Daerv wrote:

Quote:

There's no way they are going to make a DoT stack for the same class (and they shouldn't.)

Are you mad? DoT stacking NEEDS to be in the game. It means that members of the same class STACK in groups and raids instead of being limited by each other. You know BSS is currently not usable if another Warlock just cast it on the same mob? That's because of the DoT component.

I absolutely disagree.
Why should two of the same class ever be in the same group or raid? There are 24classes that can be Qeynos citizens and 24classes that can be Freeport citizens, 24 is raid max. IMHO anything to dissuade raid or group class favorites is a plus in my book.

It's exactly that kind of high ideal that doesn't translate into making a fun and open game... Here are the classes you may choose, at any one time you shall not group with the same class, you shall always raid with exactly 24 players and each of those players shall be on the same city faction as well as representing one of each of the playable classes within that city. Should you choose to not follow these rules one of each of the paired classes shall be rendered stunned and immobile for the duration of each fight so as to preserve the great game balance.Yah that game would have a lot of people playing it.

Splatterpunk28 · 02-28-2005, 12:18 AM

You know what, you guys are totally right.

How about we get the best dps (at the moment), grab 19 of them, 4healers and a tank and raid until we're blue in the face. It's uber, it's most exciting because it's the most efficient! We all know efficiency = fun, right?!

How about, instead of begging devs to make dots stack so all the incredibly exciting efficient players can put these raids together, we have the same classes cast something other than the same 3 spells over and over. Heck, how about they do something dreadful and communicate with one another if they are in the same group/raid?

Anyway, there are two scenarios:

1) DoTs stack across the board and there will be a HUGE amount of favoritism in groups/raids based on whoever is the best dps at the moment.

2) DoTs don't stack and when the EXCEPTION of 2friends/guildmates/LFGs, etc are in the same group/raid, someone has to step out of the box and do something a little different.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to go with option 2. It makes the most sense, it seems more fair and would be more exciting than option 1, anyday.

I'm not going to argue anymore, we all have our opinions. You have yours, I have mine.

Kaz · 02-28-2005, 12:50 AM

Show me a guild that has done that, just one.

Mild und Lei · 02-28-2005, 04:22 AM

he's saying that if you made DoTs stack, guilds WOULD do thatanyways, back on topic... back to Devastation

Stig · 02-28-2005, 05:01 AM

By this logic, we should make direct-nukes not stack either. Sorry, only ONE of the wizards in this group can use the direct-nukes. The other will just have to stand there, or use some low-level [FAAR-NERFED!]. Sorry, rules are rules.Why should it be any different for warlocks (or DOT users in general) compared to every other class?-Stigma

Kaz · 02-28-2005, 05:30 AM

What he's implying is that if DoT's stacked it would make those classes do too much damage thus making them more desireable to guilds. There are already classes that do much more DPS than others so if his theory held water you would already see that trend in guilds, you don't because it's not cut and dried like that. His theory borrows heavily from the realm of fantasy and I'd like him to show me otherwise. The conditions exist, prove that it happens even remotely to the extent he predicts.Also, answer me this. If a class is considered balanced and consistant on a solo basis then how does that same class become overpowered when accompanied by another of the same class? I'm sure there are some arguments that would hold water here, one could even argue that you would see groups of 6 warlocks all casting at the same time to destroy multiple encounters with devastation. That would be a good point but to say that all DoT's should never stack in such a blanket statement and then to provide an insanely improbable example as to why just doesn't lend you much credit.

Message Edited by Kaziq on 02-27-2005 04:37 PM

Splatterpunk28 · 02-28-2005, 11:37 AM

Kaziq wrote:
Show me a guild that has done that, just one.

Hmm, in case you ever played EQ1...remember manaburn when it stacked? Well in case you didn't play it was a fancy little spell that when it stacked did massive amounts of damage and manaburn raids were the common response (grab as many wizards as possible, 1cleric, 1tank...and raid every big bad that was up.) /rinse, /repeat. This was so long ago I can't name the guilds, but I do remember quite well how manaburn wizards got a freebie card into almost any guild and there was even one guild on Prexus called Manaburners or something like that and was completely made up of...wizards.

SoE took the stacking of it away (and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason) and guess what? No more super-unbalanced raiding parties.

And yes that was a blanket statement...and it was a rather flippant remark to the ridiculousness that was your cry for them to make our most powerful dot stackable, even though it goes against all the existing rules of EQ.

I'm not reading this thread so I can explain the reasoning behind some of the basic rules of EQ that have existed for several years, I'm here to be informed and share my thoughts on occasion for some minor improvements...not to rewrite the game.

Mild und Lei · 02-28-2005, 12:15 PM

no, my logic is not trying to absolutely KILL a group when two of the same class are in a group, my logic is to create a reason for people to not stack like the above poster said. have you ever played swg? there was no same-class penalty there and what do you get? constant FOTM classes. i'm not saying that groups with two of the same class should be completely ineffective (and i don't know where you got that idea), i'm saying that the no DoT stack penalty is strong enough to ensure that all classes are invited to groups but not too strong to kill the group.

AN63LUS · 02-28-2005, 12:37 PM

In my opinion I dont think they should change it, in reality, not only does devastation not stack with another warlock, but if you cast it has the chance of not getting all 4 ticks in before a mob is dead, there for only doing about 1200 damage or less maybe, regardless wizzies are gonna get to use ice comet and hit for 3k regardless...no waiting for ticking.

Also the stacking issue is huge actually, cuz multiple wizzies can be in the same group and hit for 3k, whereas warlock 1 can use it but warlock 2 cant until warlock 1s ticking is complete....and so on..severely hurts overall group dps in my opinion. Im still waiting for our counterpart to escape btw =P

Effie · 02-28-2005, 07:53 PM

and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason

DOTs stacked in EQ1

Sokolov · 02-28-2005, 08:03 PM

Kaziq wrote:
Show me a guild that has done that, just one.

I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too...

Effie · 02-28-2005, 08:03 PM

Hmm, in case you ever played EQ1...remember manaburn when it stacked? Well in case you didn't play it was a fancy little spell that when it stacked did massive amounts of damage and manaburn raids were the common response (grab as many wizards as possible, 1cleric, 1tank...and raid every big bad that was up.) /rinse, /repeat.

Um, that's not how MB groups worked.

There were a select number of 32k targets that MB teams could hit once an hour... or was it 90 minutes.

These targets were essentially limited the Kunark dragons and the WW 32k dragons.

Anyway, 6 wizards would silmultaneously cast manaburn then colect the loot.

DOT stacking is an issue at all levels of the game.

Effie · 02-28-2005, 08:04 PM

Sokolov wrote:
I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too...

Last time I checked, this game is called Everquest 2.

Sokolov · 02-28-2005, 08:21 PM

Effie wrote:

Sokolov wrote:
I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too...

Last time I checked, this game is called Everquest 2.

The point is that a sufficiently powerful ability of a certain class that is able to stack (in this case, stack means "operate simultaneously without impedement") with the same ability WILL be used in such a fashion... whatever the game is called.

Dae · 02-28-2005, 08:59 PM

You can't even begin to compare this to Manaburn. It wasn't even that good when it did stack. It was only used to kill Kunark targets. It drained all the Wizards mana. So in the long run in any given environment it was better not to use it. I think the biggest thing ever killed by a Manaburn team I heard of was Sontalak... whooooeeee a ST, a few Kunark spells and bragging rights. If you tried to form an entire raiding guild out of manaburn wizards you'd blow all your mana getting a chunk off the mobs hp then get your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] handed to you since your dps just went out the window.I fail to see how making a spell that every Warlock gets without needing to grind out a ton of AA points (EQ1 manaburn) work for two Warlocks at once is overpowered. Are two wizards in the same group both allowed to use Ice Comet? By your logic you'd see groups of 4 Wizard, Tank and Healer running around. Has this happened?The only thing this would even affect for me is BSS and SB atm. Hell I don't even cast SB is most groups since it's not worth my time. It was damned annoying that when grouping with other Sorcerers we used to have to divvy up DoT'ing duties.Kaziq = Kaziqueal or coincidence?

Kaz · 02-28-2005, 09:16 PM

Splatterpunk28 wrote:
Kaziq wrote:
Show me a guild that has done that, just one.

Hmm, in case you ever played EQ1...remember manaburn when it stacked? Well in case you didn't play it was a fancy little spell that when it stacked did massive amounts of damage and manaburn raids were the common response (grab as many wizards as possible, 1cleric, 1tank...and raid every big bad that was up.) /rinse, /repeat. This was so long ago I can't name the guilds, but I do remember quite well how manaburn wizards got a freebie card into almost any guild and there was even one guild on Prexus called Manaburners or something like that and was completely made up of...wizards.

SoE took the stacking of it away (and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason) and guess what? No more super-unbalanced raiding parties.

And yes that was a blanket statement...and it was a rather flippant remark to the ridiculousness that was your cry for them to make our most powerful dot stackable, even though it goes against all the existing rules of EQ.

I'm not reading this thread so I can explain the reasoning behind some of the basic rules of EQ that have existed for several years, I'm here to be informed and share my thoughts on occasion for some minor improvements...not to rewrite the game.

Yep, I played EQ1, and a manaburning wizard to boot.Are you even lvl 50? Raid mobs on average take more than 5 minutes to kill, most upwards of 10. Even if you look at some of the ones that have groups of adds with them like Overlord Oxulius you would need a LOT of warlocks to take those adds out in one cast of devastation and that simply would be ridiculous. Raid caps mean that you have to be responsible with your rosters in this game, and you need a good mix of classes. Any "team devastation" in *this* game would be relegated to killing non-raid multi-encounters.Regardless, I've changed my position on Devastatin dot stacking as it would be more likely to play into the hands of plat farmers. If the BSS change goes in it will make up for the nerf.

Effie · 02-28-2005, 09:16 PM

The point is that a sufficiently powerful ability of a certain class that is able to stack (in this case, stack means "operate simultaneously without impedement") with the same ability WILL be used in such a fashion... whatever the game is called.

So using your logic:

2 Templars should not be able to heal the same target, 2 Necros should not be able to use thier pets on the same target, 2 Assassins cannot assassinate the same target.

2 Wizards in the raid? Sorry only 1 of you can cast Ice Comet.

Sorry, you cant come to the raid, we already have an Inquisitor.

a sufficiently powerful ability

Is Static Pulse 'sufficiently powerless' enough that it should stack? How about a level 27 DOT.. is that [Removed for Content] enough to allow stacking?

Help me out here, I'm having a really tough time understanding your logic.

Kaz · 02-28-2005, 09:19 PM

Yeah Daerv, Kaziqueal from Vazaelle.=p

Message Edited by Kaziq on 02-28-2005 08:20 AM

tennj · 02-28-2005, 09:19 PM

Dots absolutely need to stack! There shouldn't even be a question about this. Our best spell is a dot and having them not stack will cause multiple warlocks not to be wanted on raids. There is really nothing else that needs to be said.

02-26-2005, 11:52 AM	#3
Flachett Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 116	aegil wrote: Feel free to change your decision... Your decision to be a BIG BABY! I'm tired of listening to people cry and moan about how they picked a calss and now it's getting a nerf to ONE high end spell and suddenly theres a flood of people saying how they want to emmigrate to other classes cause they don't have the biggest baddest spell anymore. BOO FREAKING HOO. on second thought, don't change your decision. Go play a Wiz or a warrior and don't let the door hit you in the back on your way out. /clap

02-26-2005, 09:32 PM	#6
tennj Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 73	Kuvala wrote: Well thanks for the "BIG BABY" comments. I guess I should include in my thinking, whether I want to be associated with a class that has people like you. Probably I don't. I think the issue here is that warlocks have always been the less vocal about our dps situation and unbalances. It's true, if you look at the wizzy and warlock boards there are much more wizzy's who go into page long rants about how they're not uber enough. Now we were all upset for a while because both our classes were severly underpowered. This "nerf" is , in my opinion, a result of said wizzy's throwing a temper tantrum on the boards about the dps of devestation vs Ice commet. I didn't think you were being a baby but some people may have took what you said the wrong way. I'm sure that devestation is a great spell still and I can't wait to get off work and go home and get it. Either way wizzards and warlocks are both great classes now and it all comes down to which one you would enjoy playing more. If you are just looking for that uber leet orange number above the mob's head, go wizzy. If you are interrested in doing damage in a number of different ways then perhaps the path of the warlock is for you. __________________ Bodhi, lvl 50 Dark elf Warlock -Unrest- ( Paradigm )

02-27-2005, 03:37 AM	#8
Splatterpunk28 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 447	Kaziq wrote: If they do this change then they need to make it so that Devastation from two or more warlocks stack. There's no way they are going to make a DoT stack for the same class (and they shouldn't.) I'd be much happier if they made Dark Nebula worthwhile. Actually, I'd prefer them to scrap that entire line (putrid cloud/grievous blast/dark nebula) and give us single target nukes instead. But, I know I'm dreaming even to suggest it.

02-27-2005, 08:06 PM	#11
Dae Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 330	You just answered your own point. A group with one DoT'ing class is going to actively seek any class but the class they already have. This hurts anyone of the same class that is lfg or wanting to contribute to a raid etc. Everyone should stack in a group with everyone else.Your idea is nice in theory however in practice no one is ever going to have one of everything. It forces people into a certain way of playing. That is bad for the player base not to mention friends who actually want to play the same class.You talk about reducing raid/group class favouritism and yet your idea (the way it is now) does the exact opposite of that. __________________ Wormwood Hex - Ratonga! - [Warlock (50) / Tailor (50)] Ponk Fury - Ratonga! - [Berserker (not 50)] D Khar - Splitpaw Server

02-28-2005, 04:22 AM	#15
Mild und Lei Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	he's saying that if you made DoTs stack, guilds WOULD do thatanyways, back on topic... back to Devastation __________________ Pyramid Song the Relic Keeper 50 Erudite Warlock Unrest

02-26-2005, 10:51 AM	#1
Kuva Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 75	Big Update #4 just went to the Test server. Huge list of changes, see the Test Server Updates forum. But here's the Warlock part: - Warlock changes: - Bellengere's Sapping Salvo has received the same upgrades as Dark Distortion. - Heneva's Viral Blast now has the same icon as Noxious Bolt. - Devastation had its reuse timer adjusted to 45 seconds. From reading the forums, it looks to me that this is an attempt to level the DPS playing field between Wizzies and Warlocks at high levels. I'm levelling an alt to be a Wiz or War, was favoring Warlock because (1) I was told they solo better, and (2) Devastation was said to be the most powerful total-damage spell in the game. Would appreciate thoughts on whether I should change my decision... Message Edited by Kuvala on 02-25-2005 09:51 PM Message Edited by Kuvala on 02-25-2005 09:52 PM

02-26-2005, 11:10 AM	#2
aegil Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Feel free to change your decision... Your decision to be a BIG BABY! I'm tired of listening to people cry and moan about how they picked a calss and now it's getting a nerf to ONE high end spell and suddenly theres a flood of people saying how they want to emmigrate to other classes cause they don't have the biggest baddest spell anymore. BOO FREAKING HOO. on second thought, don't change your decision. Go play a Wiz or a warrior and don't let the door hit you in the back on your way out.

02-26-2005, 01:26 PM	#4
Magu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	wow he asks a question and you hand him his [FAAR-NERFED!] . . okany wayno this shoulnt effect your choice it was just ment to put the spell on the same level as IC, same dmg+- same timer +- __________________ This space for rent Please PM me for rates

02-26-2005, 09:18 PM	#5
Kuva Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 75	Well thanks for the "BIG BABY" comments. I guess I should include in my thinking, whether I want to be associated with a class that has people like you. Probably I don't.

02-26-2005, 11:49 PM	#7
Kaz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	If they do this change then they need to make it so that Devastation from two or more warlocks stack.

02-28-2005, 12:18 AM	#13
Splatterpunk28 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 447	You know what, you guys are totally right. How about we get the best dps (at the moment), grab 19 of them, 4healers and a tank and raid until we're blue in the face. It's uber, it's most exciting because it's the most efficient! We all know efficiency = fun, right?! How about, instead of begging devs to make dots stack so all the incredibly exciting efficient players can put these raids together, we have the same classes cast something other than the same 3 spells over and over. Heck, how about they do something dreadful and communicate with one another if they are in the same group/raid? Anyway, there are two scenarios: 1) DoTs stack across the board and there will be a HUGE amount of favoritism in groups/raids based on whoever is the best dps at the moment. 2) DoTs don't stack and when the EXCEPTION of 2friends/guildmates/LFGs, etc are in the same group/raid, someone has to step out of the box and do something a little different. Sorry, I'm gonna have to go with option 2. It makes the most sense, it seems more fair and would be more exciting than option 1, anyday. I'm not going to argue anymore, we all have our opinions. You have yours, I have mine.

02-28-2005, 12:50 AM	#14
Kaz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Show me a guild that has done that, just one.

02-28-2005, 05:01 AM	#16
Stig Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 27	By this logic, we should make direct-nukes not stack either. Sorry, only ONE of the wizards in this group can use the direct-nukes. The other will just have to stand there, or use some low-level [FAAR-NERFED!]. Sorry, rules are rules.Why should it be any different for warlocks (or DOT users in general) compared to every other class?-Stigma

02-28-2005, 05:30 AM	#17
Kaz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	What he's implying is that if DoT's stacked it would make those classes do too much damage thus making them more desireable to guilds. There are already classes that do much more DPS than others so if his theory held water you would already see that trend in guilds, you don't because it's not cut and dried like that. His theory borrows heavily from the realm of fantasy and I'd like him to show me otherwise. The conditions exist, prove that it happens even remotely to the extent he predicts.Also, answer me this. If a class is considered balanced and consistant on a solo basis then how does that same class become overpowered when accompanied by another of the same class? I'm sure there are some arguments that would hold water here, one could even argue that you would see groups of 6 warlocks all casting at the same time to destroy multiple encounters with devastation. That would be a good point but to say that all DoT's should never stack in such a blanket statement and then to provide an insanely improbable example as to why just doesn't lend you much credit. Message Edited by Kaziq on 02-27-2005 04:37 PM

02-28-2005, 11:37 AM	#18
Splatterpunk28 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 447	Kaziq wrote: Show me a guild that has done that, just one. Hmm, in case you ever played EQ1...remember manaburn when it stacked? Well in case you didn't play it was a fancy little spell that when it stacked did massive amounts of damage and manaburn raids were the common response (grab as many wizards as possible, 1cleric, 1tank...and raid every big bad that was up.) /rinse, /repeat. This was so long ago I can't name the guilds, but I do remember quite well how manaburn wizards got a freebie card into almost any guild and there was even one guild on Prexus called Manaburners or something like that and was completely made up of...wizards. SoE took the stacking of it away (and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason) and guess what? No more super-unbalanced raiding parties. And yes that was a blanket statement...and it was a rather flippant remark to the ridiculousness that was your cry for them to make our most powerful dot stackable, even though it goes against all the existing rules of EQ. I'm not reading this thread so I can explain the reasoning behind some of the basic rules of EQ that have existed for several years, I'm here to be informed and share my thoughts on occasion for some minor improvements...not to rewrite the game.

02-28-2005, 12:15 PM	#19
Mild und Lei Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	no, my logic is not trying to absolutely KILL a group when two of the same class are in a group, my logic is to create a reason for people to not stack like the above poster said. have you ever played swg? there was no same-class penalty there and what do you get? constant FOTM classes. i'm not saying that groups with two of the same class should be completely ineffective (and i don't know where you got that idea), i'm saying that the no DoT stack penalty is strong enough to ensure that all classes are invited to groups but not too strong to kill the group. __________________ Pyramid Song the Relic Keeper 50 Erudite Warlock Unrest

02-28-2005, 12:37 PM	#20
AN63LUS Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 57	In my opinion I dont think they should change it, in reality, not only does devastation not stack with another warlock, but if you cast it has the chance of not getting all 4 ticks in before a mob is dead, there for only doing about 1200 damage or less maybe, regardless wizzies are gonna get to use ice comet and hit for 3k regardless...no waiting for ticking. Also the stacking issue is huge actually, cuz multiple wizzies can be in the same group and hit for 3k, whereas warlock 1 can use it but warlock 2 cant until warlock 1s ticking is complete....and so on..severely hurts overall group dps in my opinion. Im still waiting for our counterpart to escape btw =P __________________ ~Avi Inatta~level 80 Mystic

02-28-2005, 07:53 PM	#21
Effie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 933	and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason DOTs stacked in EQ1

02-28-2005, 08:03 PM	#22
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Kaziq wrote: Show me a guild that has done that, just one. I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too... __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

02-28-2005, 08:04 PM	#24
Effie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 933	Sokolov wrote: I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too... Last time I checked, this game is called Everquest 2.

02-28-2005, 08:21 PM	#25
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Effie wrote: Sokolov wrote: I cite the manaburn-wizard days of EQ1. They choose to nerf it. But I think they could've also simply tacked on a DoT that doesn't stack to it too... Last time I checked, this game is called Everquest 2. The point is that a sufficiently powerful ability of a certain class that is able to stack (in this case, stack means "operate simultaneously without impedement") with the same ability WILL be used in such a fashion... whatever the game is called. __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

02-28-2005, 08:59 PM	#26
Dae Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 330	You can't even begin to compare this to Manaburn. It wasn't even that good when it did stack. It was only used to kill Kunark targets. It drained all the Wizards mana. So in the long run in any given environment it was better not to use it. I think the biggest thing ever killed by a Manaburn team I heard of was Sontalak... whooooeeee a ST, a few Kunark spells and bragging rights. If you tried to form an entire raiding guild out of manaburn wizards you'd blow all your mana getting a chunk off the mobs hp then get your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] handed to you since your dps just went out the window.I fail to see how making a spell that every Warlock gets without needing to grind out a ton of AA points (EQ1 manaburn) work for two Warlocks at once is overpowered. Are two wizards in the same group both allowed to use Ice Comet? By your logic you'd see groups of 4 Wizard, Tank and Healer running around. Has this happened?The only thing this would even affect for me is BSS and SB atm. Hell I don't even cast SB is most groups since it's not worth my time. It was damned annoying that when grouping with other Sorcerers we used to have to divvy up DoT'ing duties.Kaziq = Kaziqueal or coincidence? __________________ Wormwood Hex - Ratonga! - [Warlock (50) / Tailor (50)] Ponk Fury - Ratonga! - [Berserker (not 50)] D Khar - Splitpaw Server

02-28-2005, 09:16 PM	#27
Kaz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Splatterpunk28 wrote: Kaziq wrote: Show me a guild that has done that, just one. Hmm, in case you ever played EQ1...remember manaburn when it stacked? Well in case you didn't play it was a fancy little spell that when it stacked did massive amounts of damage and manaburn raids were the common response (grab as many wizards as possible, 1cleric, 1tank...and raid every big bad that was up.) /rinse, /repeat. This was so long ago I can't name the guilds, but I do remember quite well how manaburn wizards got a freebie card into almost any guild and there was even one guild on Prexus called Manaburners or something like that and was completely made up of...wizards. SoE took the stacking of it away (and dots never stacked, probably for the very same reason) and guess what? No more super-unbalanced raiding parties. And yes that was a blanket statement...and it was a rather flippant remark to the ridiculousness that was your cry for them to make our most powerful dot stackable, even though it goes against all the existing rules of EQ. I'm not reading this thread so I can explain the reasoning behind some of the basic rules of EQ that have existed for several years, I'm here to be informed and share my thoughts on occasion for some minor improvements...not to rewrite the game. Yep, I played EQ1, and a manaburning wizard to boot.Are you even lvl 50? Raid mobs on average take more than 5 minutes to kill, most upwards of 10. Even if you look at some of the ones that have groups of adds with them like Overlord Oxulius you would need a LOT of warlocks to take those adds out in one cast of devastation and that simply would be ridiculous. Raid caps mean that you have to be responsible with your rosters in this game, and you need a good mix of classes. Any "team devastation" in this game would be relegated to killing non-raid multi-encounters.Regardless, I've changed my position on Devastatin dot stacking as it would be more likely to play into the hands of plat farmers. If the BSS change goes in it will make up for the nerf.

02-28-2005, 09:19 PM	#29
Kaz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Yeah Daerv, Kaziqueal from Vazaelle.=p Message Edited by Kaziq on 02-28-2005 08:20 AM