Switching from Str /Wis To Agil/Wis

rackman · 09-08-2006, 07:46 PM

Hi Fellow Wizzys

I am a mostly raiding Wizzy and Have to decided to respec the AA line to Agil/Wis

Any feedback on the best usage for aa points? for this respec

Of course best DPS in a raid environment is what i would like

I have Good T7 raid gear Almost full Fable geared up

But after seeing that the agil line seem to lend itself to raiding over the str line

I would like to try it out

Thanks for the help

Faheuc · 09-08-2006, 08:07 PM

i have 4/4/4/5/8 agi (the 5 is for increased casting speeds)

and 4/4/4/4/8 wis

IllusiveThoughts · 09-08-2006, 08:28 PM

rackman wrote:

Hi Fellow Wizzys

I am a mostly raiding Wizzy and Have to decided to respec the AA line to Agil/Wis

Any feedback on the best usage for aa points? for this respec

Of course best DPS in a raid environment is what i would like

I have Good T7 raid gear Almost full Fable geared up

But after seeing that the agil line seem to lend itself to raiding over the str line

I would like to try it out

Thanks for the help

if you wanted a purely raid dps based agi/wis build you will want to go

4/4/4/8/8 =28 agi

4/5/4/8 = 21 wisdom.

Fingle · 09-08-2006, 09:36 PM

It really dpends on the length of the fight as determined by overall raid dps. Str/Wiz will give you higher on 30 sec fights for example. But I do prefer to go with Wiz/agi because it provides overall flatter damage and does come into it's own in longer fights.

IllusiveThoughts · 09-08-2006, 09:55 PM

Fingle wrote:
It really dpends on the length of the fight as determined by overall raid dps. Str/Wiz will give you higher on 30 sec fights for example. But I do prefer to go with Wiz/agi because it provides overall flatter damage and does come into it's own in longer fights.

thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull.

I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM

Kriki · 09-09-2006, 01:40 AM

IllusiveThoughts wrote:

thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull.

I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight.
Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM

Illu - You're referring to two wizzy's casting those right? Isn't catalyst a 1 minute recast? If it's less than that let me know - because I'm using it wrong!!ScarllettEverfrost

IllusiveThoughts · 09-09-2006, 01:44 AM

Kriki wrote:

IllusiveThoughts wrote:

thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull.

I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM

Illu - You're referring to two wizzy's casting those right? Isn't catalyst a 1 minute recast? If it's less than that let me know - because I'm using it wrong!!

Scarllett
Everfrost

You are correct but one wizard can cast catalyst 2x in less than one minute without outside influences.

The trick is in the timing. Pre-cast this about 45-50 seconds before the pull. catalyst's buff stays active for 1 minute, and it just so happens it has a 1 min recast (the buff stays up while the recast timer resets)

So if you pre-cast it before pull, unload your first attack with a catalysted ice nova, then a few seconds later once catalyst has refreshed cast it again with a freehand sorcery and fusion to do massive amounts of damage in a very short period of time, which is why i referenced having the proper raid set up, because you will gain a proportionately large amount of hate from doing so.

Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 02:45 PM

Kriki · 09-09-2006, 11:53 AM

I just noticed tonight that Catalyst shows as a buff, but not on the maintained spells list, on the other (whatever it may be called) so I've never noticed it.Now that I know it's there I will definately pay attetion to how long it's up and see how I can use it to best effect.Also, if you cast Catalyst then an AoE or pet (Forge or Proto) will they be all crit? I'll test it out some this weekend, but imput would be great!Thanks!

Sacra Magice · 09-09-2006, 03:12 PM

Kriki wrote:

Also, if you cast Catalyst then an AoE or pet (Forge or Proto) will they be all crit? I'll test it out some this weekend, but imput would be great!

Thanks!

Catalyst + AoE = All crit

Catalyst + DoT = All crit

Catalyst + AoE (group rather) DoT = All crit

Catalyst + pet = Sorry, would need to test this SMILEY

HerzenFunia · 09-09-2006, 04:43 PM

Before, I was using wis 44448 and agi 44458. Month ago I swapped to Str 4448 and Wis 46478. Well not rly big difference with these 2 setups, but with my str/wis setup I'am doing a bit more dps than beofre. Also on longer fights I have more pwr. And I dont want to swap back to agi/wis now.

Message Edited by HerzenFunia on 09-09-2006 04:45 PM

Admh · 09-09-2006, 05:18 PM

nah.. i used to be on a wis/agi setup.. didn't like it. I did it for the sake of increasing the recast timer of all my spells due to the ring of four winds i just got, however there is really not that big of a difference. the percentages only affected spells that had longer recast timers 20+ etc.. ? correct me if i'm wrong on this. I would rather have the constant barrage of crits every 2-3 spells casted and having the luxury of combining catalyst and freehand sorcery at my disposal.My current setup as of this time is Strength - 4/4/4/5/1, Wisdom - 4/8/4/8/0

Jezekie · 09-09-2006, 07:11 PM

Admhel wrote: nah.. i used to be on a wis/agi setup.. didn't like it. I did it for the sake of increasing the recast timer of all my spells due to the ring of four winds i just got, however there is really not that big of a difference. the percentages only affected spells that had longer recast timers 20+ etc.. ? correct me if i'm wrong on this. I would rather have the constant barrage of crits every 2-3 spells casted and having the luxury of combining catalyst and freehand sorcery at my disposal.My current setup as of this time is Strength - 4/4/4/5/1, Wisdom - 4/8/4/8/0

If you want to go the STR/WIS route, it seems more optimal to go 4/4/4/8/8 in STR, and 4/5/4/8 in WIS. Unless you're really happy for big numbers with Freehand, but that's just me. If I were to ever spec back to STR/WIS I'd want as many crits as possible to boost damage as much as possible over time (higher crit %).

Admh · 09-11-2006, 05:32 PM

i dont' like chances. it's unreliable. I like to control my own dps as much as possible. it's bad enough we're horrible against other non-t1 classes and i'm not going to let a dice control when i could crit and when will the max number of a specific spell come out.

Message Edited by Admhel on 09-11-2006 09:33 AM

Jezekie · 09-11-2006, 06:45 PM

Aye, I'm with you on that sentiment.Think I'll eventually end up going away from 4,4,4,8 in AGI and 4,5,4,8,8 in WIS to 4,4,4,8,8 in AGI and 4,5,4,8 in WIS. The crits just seems too streaky, to rely on the RNG to produce a steady amount of crits just doesn't seem like a good idea in comparison to the AGI line IMO.

curtlewis · 09-12-2006, 12:43 AM

AGI/WIS allows you to cast more often, delivering more nukes in the same amount of time as a STR/WIS spec'd wizard. More nukes = more damage.While the STR/WIS spec will deliver more dmg per nuke, AGI has the advantage... on shorter fights. But casting faster means burning more power faster, too. So they start to spend a lot of time using power recovery spells and items, heavily lowering their DPS after a bit. A STR/WIZ based wizard also has to, but with a lower burn rate, they can spend less time recovering power and more time using it.In the end, which is better? Tough to say. I think that since much of a raid is trash mobs that AGI/WIS might deliver better raid merges, but that STR/WIS may be more effective on the bosses. I don't really have enough data to be certain, however.What I do know is this. I've seen AGI/WIS wizards post very good DPS. And many wizards in major raid guilds still run STR/WIS and post great DPS as well. It all comes down to group makeup, debuffs, hate reduction, tactics and aggressive casting by the wizard. The more of that list you can get working well, the better your DPS will be.

ailees · 09-12-2006, 03:50 PM

It has already been discussed here a lot, with tons of parsing(s).There is not much differences between the 2 big choices : fast cast or Bigboom.Your DPS can vary from a factor 0.5 (that a lot !) just depending on the right choice of spells you cast, and of course the way you cast them.And the way you play, the risks you like to take and so on.I'm on bigboooooom, because I love critting. I'm generally on the 2 or 3 best damagers of the raid, but I am also on the 2 top dying. I loce fighting close to mobs, using AEs and fusion.But i'm quite sure that if I were going agility, I would have same results in term of damages (and die less may be) replacing my big howitzer by a kalachnikov.The only thing I don't do is to precast catalyst, because if I do it, then IN, I die... and dying at begining of fight is too much DPS loose. And anyway our mad tank is getting trash too fast for precasting...P.S. not in raid, but precating catalyst when you are going into HOF at the place where there is 3000 mobs pile up is SO SO SO fun...

09-08-2006, 08:28 PM	#3
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	rackman wrote: Hi Fellow Wizzys I am a mostly raiding Wizzy and Have to decided to respec the AA line to Agil/Wis Any feedback on the best usage for aa points? for this respec Of course best DPS in a raid environment is what i would like I have Good T7 raid gear Almost full Fable geared up But after seeing that the agil line seem to lend itself to raiding over the str line I would like to try it out Thanks for the help if you wanted a purely raid dps based agi/wis build you will want to go 4/4/4/8/8 =28 agi 4/5/4/8 = 21 wisdom. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

09-08-2006, 09:36 PM	#4
Fingle Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Najena Posts: 100	It really dpends on the length of the fight as determined by overall raid dps. Str/Wiz will give you higher on 30 sec fights for example. But I do prefer to go with Wiz/agi because it provides overall flatter damage and does come into it's own in longer fights. __________________

09-08-2006, 09:55 PM	#5
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Fingle wrote: It really dpends on the length of the fight as determined by overall raid dps. Str/Wiz will give you higher on 30 sec fights for example. But I do prefer to go with Wiz/agi because it provides overall flatter damage and does come into it's own in longer fights. thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull. I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

09-09-2006, 01:40 AM	#6
Kriki Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 67	IllusiveThoughts wrote: thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull. I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM Illu - You're referring to two wizzy's casting those right? Isn't catalyst a 1 minute recast? If it's less than that let me know - because I'm using it wrong!!ScarllettEverfrost __________________ Kriki Paragon Everfrost

09-09-2006, 01:44 AM	#7
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Kriki wrote: IllusiveThoughts wrote: thats dependant on the number of random crits and if your raid set up can handle a pre-casted catalyst with fusion or ice nova a few seconds into the pull. I'd agree if your raid could handle a catalyst ice nova followed up by a freehand catalyst fusion it would seriously out dps agi / wisdom on a short fight. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 10:55 AM Illu - You're referring to two wizzy's casting those right? Isn't catalyst a 1 minute recast? If it's less than that let me know - because I'm using it wrong!! Scarllett Everfrost You are correct but one wizard can cast catalyst 2x in less than one minute without outside influences. The trick is in the timing. Pre-cast this about 45-50 seconds before the pull. catalyst's buff stays active for 1 minute, and it just so happens it has a 1 min recast (the buff stays up while the recast timer resets) So if you pre-cast it before pull, unload your first attack with a catalysted ice nova, then a few seconds later once catalyst has refreshed cast it again with a freehand sorcery and fusion to do massive amounts of damage in a very short period of time, which is why i referenced having the proper raid set up, because you will gain a proportionately large amount of hate from doing so. Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 09-08-2006 02:45 PM __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

09-08-2006, 07:46 PM	#1
rackman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 60	Hi Fellow Wizzys I am a mostly raiding Wizzy and Have to decided to respec the AA line to Agil/Wis Any feedback on the best usage for aa points? for this respec Of course best DPS in a raid environment is what i would like I have Good T7 raid gear Almost full Fable geared up But after seeing that the agil line seem to lend itself to raiding over the str line I would like to try it out Thanks for the help

09-08-2006, 08:07 PM	#2
Faheuc Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 277	i have 4/4/4/5/8 agi (the 5 is for increased casting speeds) and 4/4/4/4/8 wis

09-09-2006, 11:53 AM	#8
Kriki Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 67	I just noticed tonight that Catalyst shows as a buff, but not on the maintained spells list, on the other (whatever it may be called) so I've never noticed it.Now that I know it's there I will definately pay attetion to how long it's up and see how I can use it to best effect.Also, if you cast Catalyst then an AoE or pet (Forge or Proto) will they be all crit? I'll test it out some this weekend, but imput would be great!Thanks! __________________ Kriki Paragon Everfrost

09-09-2006, 03:12 PM	#9
Sacra Magice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 146	Kriki wrote: Also, if you cast Catalyst then an AoE or pet (Forge or Proto) will they be all crit? I'll test it out some this weekend, but imput would be great! Thanks! Catalyst + AoE = All crit Catalyst + DoT = All crit Catalyst + AoE (group rather) DoT = All crit Catalyst + pet = Sorry, would need to test this

09-09-2006, 04:43 PM	#10
HerzenFunia Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: Russia Posts: 218	Before, I was using wis 44448 and agi 44458. Month ago I swapped to Str 4448 and Wis 46478. Well not rly big difference with these 2 setups, but with my str/wis setup I'am doing a bit more dps than beofre. Also on longer fights I have more pwr. And I dont want to swap back to agi/wis now. Message Edited by HerzenFunia on 09-09-2006 04:45 PM

09-09-2006, 05:18 PM	#11
Admh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 328	nah.. i used to be on a wis/agi setup.. didn't like it. I did it for the sake of increasing the recast timer of all my spells due to the ring of four winds i just got, however there is really not that big of a difference. the percentages only affected spells that had longer recast timers 20+ etc.. ? correct me if i'm wrong on this. I would rather have the constant barrage of crits every 2-3 spells casted and having the luxury of combining catalyst and freehand sorcery at my disposal.My current setup as of this time is Strength - 4/4/4/5/1, Wisdom - 4/8/4/8/0

09-09-2006, 07:11 PM	#12
Jezekie General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,136	Admhel wrote: nah.. i used to be on a wis/agi setup.. didn't like it. I did it for the sake of increasing the recast timer of all my spells due to the ring of four winds i just got, however there is really not that big of a difference. the percentages only affected spells that had longer recast timers 20+ etc.. ? correct me if i'm wrong on this. I would rather have the constant barrage of crits every 2-3 spells casted and having the luxury of combining catalyst and freehand sorcery at my disposal.My current setup as of this time is Strength - 4/4/4/5/1, Wisdom - 4/8/4/8/0 If you want to go the STR/WIS route, it seems more optimal to go 4/4/4/8/8 in STR, and 4/5/4/8 in WIS. Unless you're really happy for big numbers with Freehand, but that's just me. If I were to ever spec back to STR/WIS I'd want as many crits as possible to boost damage as much as possible over time (higher crit %). __________________ ---------------------------- Retired

09-11-2006, 05:32 PM	#13
Admh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 328	i dont' like chances. it's unreliable. I like to control my own dps as much as possible. it's bad enough we're horrible against other non-t1 classes and i'm not going to let a dice control when i could crit and when will the max number of a specific spell come out. Message Edited by Admhel on 09-11-2006 09:33 AM

09-11-2006, 06:45 PM	#14
Jezekie General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,136	Aye, I'm with you on that sentiment.Think I'll eventually end up going away from 4,4,4,8 in AGI and 4,5,4,8,8 in WIS to 4,4,4,8,8 in AGI and 4,5,4,8 in WIS. The crits just seems too streaky, to rely on the RNG to produce a steady amount of crits just doesn't seem like a good idea in comparison to the AGI line IMO. __________________ ---------------------------- Retired

09-12-2006, 12:43 AM	#15
curtlewis Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 246	AGI/WIS allows you to cast more often, delivering more nukes in the same amount of time as a STR/WIS spec'd wizard. More nukes = more damage.While the STR/WIS spec will deliver more dmg per nuke, AGI has the advantage... on shorter fights. But casting faster means burning more power faster, too. So they start to spend a lot of time using power recovery spells and items, heavily lowering their DPS after a bit. A STR/WIZ based wizard also has to, but with a lower burn rate, they can spend less time recovering power and more time using it.In the end, which is better? Tough to say. I think that since much of a raid is trash mobs that AGI/WIS might deliver better raid merges, but that STR/WIS may be more effective on the bosses. I don't really have enough data to be certain, however.What I do know is this. I've seen AGI/WIS wizards post very good DPS. And many wizards in major raid guilds still run STR/WIS and post great DPS as well. It all comes down to group makeup, debuffs, hate reduction, tactics and aggressive casting by the wizard. The more of that list you can get working well, the better your DPS will be.

09-12-2006, 03:50 PM	#16
ailees Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toulouse (France) Posts: 553	It has already been discussed here a lot, with tons of parsing(s).There is not much differences between the 2 big choices : fast cast or Bigboom.Your DPS can vary from a factor 0.5 (that a lot !) just depending on the right choice of spells you cast, and of course the way you cast them.And the way you play, the risks you like to take and so on.I'm on bigboooooom, because I love critting. I'm generally on the 2 or 3 best damagers of the raid, but I am also on the 2 top dying. I loce fighting close to mobs, using AEs and fusion.But i'm quite sure that if I were going agility, I would have same results in term of damages (and die less may be) replacing my big howitzer by a kalachnikov.The only thing I don't do is to precast catalyst, because if I do it, then IN, I die... and dying at begining of fight is too much DPS loose. And anyway our mad tank is getting trash too fast for precasting...P.S. not in raid, but precating catalyst when you are going into HOF at the place where there is 3000 mobs pile up is SO SO SO fun... __________________