OK, I know why Wizards suck in solo

[Czor]

I always was wondering why wizards are so lousy in soloing. I am a 42 Wiz and it's a real pain for me to kill 30 lvl heroic with 3 arrows up. And I am even not talking about higher levels.

For example, my Necro friend can take upto 37-38 heroics with his pet. Not to mention rangers or all warrior subclasses.

 

And suddenly I came up with the idea why it's so hard to be the Wizard in most solo-cases.

The problem is NOT in mitigation - it's nicely balanced by damage and rooting spells. The problem is in monsters:

 

ALL MOBS IN EQ2 ARE 100% MELEE AND THIS IS TOTALY STUPID!

 

Let's take a paladdin and a wizard to compare.

 

Paladdin: has less damage, but better defence - every monster that hits him deals lesser damage, and so pally dies slowly and have a good chance to kill a bad guy for, say, 2 minutes.

Wizard: deals crazy damage, can kill monster in 20 secs, but has a good chance to die due to the lowest possible armor.

 

Since all mobs are 100% melee, paladdin fights them equally and in addition to this - uses less mana. Wizard hits a lot, but can't take too much damage and looses mana VERY fast.

In some cases it's almost impossible to constantly root and spells consume a lot of power. So in most situations you can't beat the mobs which can be EASILY wiped by melee class.

 

I really dunno, why SOE didn't make ANY ranged monsters or mobs equal to mage class. Even the ones that have some magic abilities hit you a couple times with magic and then start fighting with fists. And they hit REALLY HARD, however wizards are like babies in hand-to-had combat. I understand that if they would've made any mages of ranged mobs, some classes could just wipe'em. But this is what balance means!

 

Make a 30 lvl ^^^ heroic NPC mage, give him less mitigation than 30 lvl ^^^ heroic gnoll has and the ability to act like player-driven chatacter. Let'em root, freeze and hit hard the overpowered Rangers and they will be hard to kill for them as much as Golems or Giants for Wizards.

 

In most single player games NPC mages are most powerfull monsters since you can't just walk to them, say "hi" and deal to him 10K+ damage in the balls with your Deathstrike Ballcrushing Legendary Mace of Imbecil Dragon Who Lives in the Caves of Selfeating Goo +147 to Kick-in-the-Balls Skill. I always remember myself having A LOT problems with ranged or magic mobs in single player games. Even skeleton archers in good old Diablo had the ability to run away a little avoiding melee and hit you from the distance. Dunno why can't they do the same in EQ2.

 

Asheron's Call 1, the game that was released crazy years ago, had ranged mobs!

 

Sigh... The more I play Wizard, the more disbalance I see...

Message Edited by Czorny on 12-23-2005 01:15 PM

[Tanit]

lolThe melee mobs are easy to solo, if you cant do it then you're doing something wrong. Trust me, you don't want more caster mobs. Those are actually able to hit you and do that quite hard.

[Czor]

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Tanith_ wrote:
lol
The melee mobs are easy to solo, if you cant do it then you're doing something wrong. Trust me, you don't want more caster mobs. Those are actually able to hit you and do that quite hard.

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I didn't say I can't kill melee mobs at all, I said that, for example, I can't kill 35 lvl heroic ^^^ bee in EL, since I take 100% damage. However all melee classes eat this bee on breakfast. Even my Necro friend killed her!

And you know what most funny part? 31 lvl heroic ^^^ centaur which has 70/30 chance to kill me marked as NO CHALLENGE for me! I laugh at that!

And also yes, I DO want caster mobs which will be easy to kill for mage classes and hard - for warriors and rangers. For now I see no reason in any other mitigation except melee, because there are NO mobs that use disease, cold or fire magic a lot. So this is mostly a 'feature' not an important part of the game.

This is balance and Blizzard spends hell lot of time to make their games perfect in this. As for SOE, they like makin EQ2 more casual, Homer Simpson's friendly, not even thinking of balance.

 

[StoneySilen]

All mobs are melee?  That's strange, I seem to be attacked by casters all the time.

 

*shrug*

 

Anyway you shouldn't be trying to kill Heroics anyway.  I can solo yellow con ^ mobs fairly easily.  I can kill green ^^^ heroics without much trouble either.

 

Perhaps you should invest in more Int equipment and better spells?  All my critical spells (big nukes and roots) are Adept 3.  Well except the spells that I got since 40.  Haven't gotten the rares to get them made into Adept 3's.  Most are still App1.  Still no problem.

[Czor]

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StoneySilence wrote:

All mobs are melee?  That's strange, I seem to be attacked by casters all the time.

 

*shrug*

 

Anyway you shouldn't be trying to kill Heroics anyway.  I can solo yellow con ^ mobs fairly easily.  I can kill green ^^^ heroics without much trouble either.

 

Perhaps you should invest in more Int equipment and better spells?  All my critical spells (big nukes and roots) are Adept 3.  Well except the spells that I got since 40.  Haven't gotten the rares to get them made into Adept 3's.  Most are still App1.  Still no problem.

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I am 42 Wiz, all my main nuke spells and even some buffs are Master II/Adept III or at least Adept I. I know how to use my char, trust me. I am not a casual gamer, since I've worked as a games journalist for the last 5 years. I played hell lot of games and there are no games which I can't understand or play easily after some small training course. I know very good what the word 'balance' means and this is a fact that 42 lvl mage can't kill ^^^ heroics that are 10 levels below him. Blue, white, green mobs of 1-8 monsters depending on color are bein wiped my me yawning loud. But if we take a no-challenge-for-me heroics they kick me in the nuts almost all the time. And did I say 'heroics'? No, sorry - HEROIC. I mean ONE monster, not a grouped mob!

 

You think this is right? Let me disagree.

[Kasai]

Look buddy...melee mobs are wizzies specialities...If you can't solo melee mobs then you need to look through your spellbook again.  At lvl 43 you should have two roots:A group root called Ring of ColdA single target root called TeatherOn any melee mob you should ALWAYS have BOTH roots UPWhen one of the roots breaks don't say to yourself "get ready to melee," because you should already be casting the root again.If you have both of the roots up mobs should very rarely get to you (let alone be able to hit you)I can't seem to realize how hard it is to kill something that never gets a chance to hit you but it might just be me.Another note. about wanting more caster mobs...I guess you have never seen a mob that casts...casue there are quite a few.  I think the earilest ones are the gnolls/orcs in antonica/commonlands.  The ones that cast.  You also say that they only cast one or two times (well if you don't keep them away why should they?)  They do loose life much faster than heroic melee mobs but not as fast as you.  NON-HEROIC caster mobs loose life as fast as you.  HEROIC caster mobs should take a group to take down.  They loose life pretty quick in a group situation, much faster than a melee heroic.Soloing with a wizard aint to hard...if you get a caster mob maybe you should do what was intended and get a group...I'm pretty sure when you mouse-over the name it says clear as day "This monster should be taken with a group of 3 or more."

[IllusiveThoughts]

I think the guy is arguing that he cant MELE the MELE mobs to death.  like another class can.

 

As others have pointed out, learn to use your roots so the mobs dont ever EVER EVER get into mele range to hit you, regardless of the level difference.  Without a root even grey con heroics can kill you.

 

 

[Czor]

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If you can't solo melee mobs then you need to look through your spellbook again.  At lvl 43 you should have two roots:
A group root called Ring of Cold
A single target root called Teather

On any melee mob you should ALWAYS have BOTH roots UP
When one of the roots breaks don't say to yourself "get ready to melee," because you should already be casting the root again.
If you have both of the roots up mobs should very rarely get to you (let alone be able to hit you)
I can't seem to realize how hard it is to kill something that never gets a chance to hit you but it might just be me.

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Do you realize the difference between ordinary and heroic mobs? As I have already mentioned, I can EASILY solo non-heroic mobs upto my own level and a even a couple above depending on amount of ^. But when it comes to heroics Wizards suck like babies, however melee classes kill them with no problem.

 

Of course I use rooting constantly, but IT BREAKS A LOT when we are talking about heroics. Rooting is almost useless against heroic mobs for they break it usually after 1-2 hits and in most cases your spell icon still not charged. I even know the technique "root one - stun another" when u use rooting and Aurora having two separate mobs attackin you. I don't think lot of wizzies even figured out a possible use for Aurora.

 

So the only thing I can't seem to realize is how to make something never get a chance to hit me when we are talking about heroic mobs.

 

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I guess you have never seen a mob that casts...casue there are quite a few.  I think the earilest ones are the gnolls/orcs in antonica/commonlands.  The ones that cast.  You also say that they only cast one or two times (well if you don't keep them away why should they?)  They do loose life much faster than heroic melee mobs but not as fast as you.  NON-HEROIC caster mobs loose life as fast as you.  HEROIC caster mobs should take a group to take down.  They loose life pretty quick in a group situation, much faster than a melee heroic.

Soloing with a wizard aint to hard...if you get a caster mob maybe you should do what was intended and get a group...I'm pretty sure when you mouse-over the name it says clear as day "This monster should be taken with a group of 3 or more."

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There are NO caster mobs in EQ2. They all hit 1-2 time and run towards you for melee combat. You can't say that Paladdin is a mage because he has several spells and auras. Pure caster or ranged mobs NEVER go melee or only when they have no other choice. This is what I am talking about.

[Czor]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

I think the guy is arguing that he cant MELE the MELE mobs to death.  like another class can.

As others have pointed out, learn to use your roots so the mobs dont ever EVER EVER get into mele range to hit you, regardless of the level difference.  Without a root even grey con heroics can kill you.

---

So you say that only my rooting spells have chance to break after ANY hit and others root mobs to death? I don't think you want to say that.

As I've already said, I do use rooting CONSTANTLY, but in most cases when u fight heroics (even grey ones) they break any roots after 1-2 hits and come to me faster than I can cast the root for a 2nd time.

[Kasai]

buddy...I am taling about HEROIC mobs...when the root breaks ROOT AGAIN...have TWO roots up AT ALL TIMES. Don't use DOTS becuase they break roots really fast.  Use high damage DD's.  I solo heroics and i know what i am doing...i think you are a bit clueless

[Poochymama]

 

Lol wizards are about the best class in the game at soloing heroics. A good wizard can solo a yellow ^^^ named mob without ever getting hit.

 

A little tip,,,,,,, dont use dots.

 

 

 

[Tong]

Neither myself, nor any other wizards above level 40 that I know are having the same soloing issues as you are, Czorny. Also, caster mobs seem to be common enough for my comfort, as I would much rather face a melee type. I would try to work out a solution for you, but I'm afraid that you would see the offer as an insult. Be patient, wizards are a fantastic solo class.

:smileyhappy:

[Tanit]

A wizard that knows how to play his class can solo any yellow heroic melee mob. The fact that roots break fast only makes it a bit harder, but still not that hard. Caster mobs on the other hand are a lot harder to kill, since they can actually hit you while melee mobs cant.

[your savior]

OK, I just dinged lvl 50 last night.  This is my main toon, so I'm not that rich and I've still got some things to learn about tactics.  My stats at the moment are (including the santa cap): STR - 67 AGI - 74 STA - 68 INT - 251 WIS - 51 I know my INT would be considered low for a lvl 50, but I can't afford better equipment right now.  Like I said, I just dinged last night.  But just now, I soloed a giant, 48^^^ heroic and it was easy.  It didn't go smooth, I had a lvl 47 dune spider walk over, so with the giant rooted I took it out quick and still was able to finish off the giant.  I didn't need a manastone, or any other mana recover spells, it was just easy.  It was definately exciting, one wrong move and you are dead.  The problems you are having are because you have no idea how to use your class, not because you are weak.  By accident, when choosing a giant to kill I chose a magic casting giant.  I was dead in moments, the concept of more magic foes is laughable.  I've seen people on the forums kill giants before and I thought "wow, that guy must know his stuff and be wearing the absolute best".  Right now, I'm an awful wizard, but it seems I have some things right. If you can't use a wizard properly, move on to a different class.  Maybe they are just not suited to you.  If you are in awe of your paladin and summoning friends, go and become one.  This isn't an attack, you just clearly like those classes better, so why not become one?  The balance between classes should never revolve around two people of the same level in different classes being able to kill the same mob at the same speed with the same overall affects to health and power.  If you think that way then you are wrong.  What you are begging for will just dumb down a unique class, not improve it as far as I'm concerned.

[Brockaine2]

You claim you know how to play your class....um BULL. Single melee mobs are the end all of uber targets for a wizard. At 60 I can take white or possibly even yellow ^^^s pretty easily if they are pure melee. And your talking about taking 100% damage? Um if its a pure melee mob you should be taking 0 damage. Start with a root cast 2-3 nukes (NO dots) reroot and start casting your nukes again. If your taking even semi difficult mobs you don't want to have many dots going because every tic has a chance to break your root and you start getting eaten alive. Another huge asset to the wizards root is it slows when it rbeaks giving you TONS of time to recast

Message Edited by Brockaine222 on 12-23-2005 06:45 PM

[KnightMax]

A couple of other tips / comments ... first this isnt fast ... you are not burning the mob down fast your doing it in a very safe manner.  Second it helps if you have some room to move around if your root breaks.

Also ^^^ heroics arent what you want to chose to grind exp ... just too slow and use a ton of mana but if you want some piece of loot :smileyhappy:

[ailees]

I understand what the first poster said : all mobs are melee in the sens that if they can, they'll run at you and wack you. No mob will stay far from you casting like a mad. This is true. But as casters are much more dangerous for me than meleers, I don't really care ! as it has allways been said here, a pure mellee is not very dangerous if you can root it, with 2 roots it is even better. no mob is really  a pure caster, casting dangerous spell only and having very low health. It is true, imagine 10K health and 6K icecomet ? and root / stiffle ? well, may be SOE could imagine such a monster, will generate some different fights

Message Edited by ailees on 12-23-2005 11:34 PM

[Admh]

go solo the mob in the 3rd or 4th?? part of the carpet quest in Maj'dul. You'll see the grave power of a wizard mob.

[BoinkTheClown]

I am a lvl 60 wiz with all adept 3's, I can take white and yellow ^^^'s safely as long as I am not in a small confined space,root, nuke,stun when root breaks,reroot,nuke, repeat, no dots are allowed.This has been possible since getting ring of cold. Make sure to get nukes, roots, stuns adept 3.  Good luck.

[Tong]

Continuing with the positive advice....remember you can trigger your HO while you are backing up. Save your stun in anticipation of your root breaking. If you are about to get pounded, and none of your root timers are up, as well as stun, nimbus aurora can save your butt until your timers pop back up. Nimbus aurora can also save your butt when you run low on fun juice. Running out of room can be a disaster, I like to do a little 360 while casting to make sure I'm not gonna back up into aggro, or a wall.

cheers and frog power!

[3C HAVOK]

To the powers that be at SOE, Please do not take this persons advice and add more caster mobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact you need to get rid of all caster mobs and make them all melee mobs     Dude you have got to be kidding me about caster mobs or ranged mobs. I can take allmost and heroic melee mob int he game with taking 0 damage if i do it safe about 50% damage if im carless. Caster mobs its well lets just say that if i see a wand on a guy or i know its a caster i just keep on riding by it as the freaking eat us for lunch unless you have a lot of room and can joust in and out of there cast range.     Im sorry but you realy just need to learn the tacticts of playing a wizzy. Root the mob. nuke the mob is root still up? then nuke again, Root breaks, Stun mob root mob back up a small bit rinse and repeat. Now after you get this down and you realy have it down you can try this one, root the mob, Nuke with big nuke nuke with second big nuke, Nuke with big dot as root breaks stunn mob after stun hits as mob runs at you cast stiffle on mob and chill/frost shield on yourself and nuke one more time. Now this is a trticky way of doing it and if you dont know what you are doing stick to the slow way of root nuke stun root. Once you get to know what you are doing then try tactic number 2.       Oh as far as mobs using bows i do hope that you know that bows can be shot while a target is rooted, so you have a ranged mob using bows as you have him rooted he shooting arrows at you and you are perma stifled due to getting inturupted by his arrows.      Learn your class and your toon before you post crap like this.  the overland zones are nothing like harclave where it looks to me like you have leveled up your toon.

[Czor]

Oh, ok this sounds funny... Looks like everybody have 1000+ INT on their 30-s

This is what I got:

Wizard 42 level

INT: 162

Power: 2341

Special: Robe with FT VII (In-combat power restoration by 7 per tick), racial traits which restore approx. 10 per tick.

I do use roots, I do use nukes (well, I must admit I also always use one DOT - Freezing Wind (Master II) - can't resist usin it since it's crazy good on group mobs), I use Vital Flow + other mana restoring spells and I ALWAYS end up with no mana fighting heroic mobs. Note: I am talking about GREEN mobs, not even white or yellow ones. My main nukes are Adept III, they do hit hard, but heroic mobs have even more HP, so this is extremely hards for me to kill any.

I am not dumb and I know how to use HOs or shortcuts or whatever. So I am not loosin any tactical moments.

The main problem is POWER. Should I have twice of it, I would easily rip Fyst like kitty

And as for now I usually finish the fight freezin a mob and running away with 10% of health left. That's it.

P.S. For those trying to whine about ranged mobs: You guys just never saw what good balance means if you are so afraid of ranged or caster mobs. You keep thinkin straight like "oh, caster mobs are scary coz they will shoot you being rooted'. Just use you brain and you'll understand that it's not to hard to make rooting spells ABSOLUTE, so no ranged or caster mobs could hit you from distance when rooted. And there are PLENTY ways to balance ranged, melee and caster mobs - SOE just need to work a little and forget about sissy casuals who cry when they are being killed too much. I am not crying about dieing, I just want this game to be equal for all classes, which is not this way in my opinion.

Message Edited by Czorny on 12-24-2005 01:46 PM

[your savior]

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Czorny wrote:

Oh, ok this sounds funny... Looks like everybody have 1000+ INT on their 30-s

This is what I got:

Wizard 42 level

INT: 162

Power: 2341

Special: Robe with FT VII (In-combat power restoration by 7 per tick), racial traits which restore approx. 10 per tick.

I do use roots, I do use nukes (well, I must admit I also always use one DOT - Freezing Wind (Master II) - can't resist usin it since it's crazy good on group mobs), I use Vital Flow + other mana restoring spells and I ALWAYS end up with no mana fighting heroic mobs. Note: I am talking about GREEN mobs, not even white or yellow ones. My main nukes are Adept III, they do hit hard, but heroic mobs have even more HP, so this is extremely hards for me to kill any.

I am not dumb and I know how to use HOs or shortcuts or whatever. So I am not loosin any tactical moments.

The main problem is POWER. Should I have twice of it, I would easily rip Fyst like kitty

And as for now I usually finish the fight freezin a mob and running away with 10% of health left. That's it.

---

Yeah, kiss that problem goodbye at 50.

[NightGod473]

Get an imbued wand to help you through the power issues in the 40s-it's slow, and sucks for exping, but it's nice for taking down those named for loot. Once you hit 50 and can really start jacking up your INT, it quickly becomes a non-issue.

[RufusAzzStab]

not wanting to hijack this thread and all but two points to make...1) is this guy for real??? i mean really really real??? because i swear.... he HAS to be kidding... i mean, it screams funny ha ha....2)most of this post is wizards talking about soloing yellow ^^^ mobs without getting touched..... so who are the people in the testing forum saying you need more dps and that your so underpowered????man, you wizzies.... i swear comic geniouses everyone of you....i think i wet myself, time to go change my pants....-r-

[NightGod473]

Wizards complain about raid DPS, where resists and massive power consumption cause issues. And the thing about soloing yellow ^^^ and not getting touched is that if you *do* get touched, yer dead. Anyway, the OP is a bit of a [Removed for Content] and wizards aren't complaining about solo ability when you read those posts in the Testing forum. It's raid (and to a lesser extent, group, due to high cast times mobs are often dead before we can cast two spells) DPS that is the issue.

[Poochymama]

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RufusAzzStabba wrote:
not wanting to hijack this thread and all but two points to make...

1) is this guy for real??? i mean really really real??? because i swear.... he HAS to be kidding... i mean, it screams funny ha ha....


2)most of this post is wizards talking about soloing yellow ^^^ mobs without getting touched..... so who are the people in the testing forum saying you need more dps and that your so underpowered????


man, you wizzies.... i swear comic geniouses everyone of you....

i think i wet myself, time to go change my pants....

-r-

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We are soloing monsters, but at the same time we are DPS [Removed for Content] in the end game.

[your savior]

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Poochymama p wrote:

---

RufusAzzStabba wrote:not wanting to hijack this thread and all but two points to make...1) is this guy for real??? i mean really really real??? because i swear.... he HAS to be kidding... i mean, it screams funny ha ha....Meh, just needs to learn in my opinion.2)most of this post is wizards talking about soloing yellow ^^^ mobs without getting touched..... so who are the people in the testing forum saying you need more dps and that your so underpowered????Only certain mobs, getting touched is to die.man, you wizzies.... i swear comic geniouses everyone of you....i think i wet myself, time to go change my pants....-r-

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We are soloing monsters, but at the same time we are DPS [Removed for Content] in the end game.  Part of the reason I choose wizard is their power.  Powerful I am, and happy with things the way they are too.  DPS isn't the ultimate form of power; just a false perception.

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[Poochymama]

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your savior wrote:

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Poochymama p wrote:

---

RufusAzzStabba wrote:
not wanting to hijack this thread and all but two points to make...

1) is this guy for real??? i mean really really real??? because i swear.... he HAS to be kidding... i mean, it screams funny ha ha....Meh, just needs to learn in my opinion.


2)most of this post is wizards talking about soloing yellow ^^^ mobs without getting touched..... so who are the people in the testing forum saying you need more dps and that your so underpowered????Only certain mobs, getting touched is to die.


man, you wizzies.... i swear comic geniouses everyone of you....

i think i wet myself, time to go change my pants....

-r-

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We are soloing monsters, but at the same time we are DPS [Removed for Content] in the end game.  Part of the reason I choose wizard is their power.  Powerful I am, and happy with things the way they are too.  DPS isn't the ultimate form of power; just a false perception.

---

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Aye but soloing ability is not where are power is supposed to come from. DPS as stated by the devs is where our power is supposed to come from.

[Brockaine2]

Wizards are probably the best soloers in the game (or at least close) but that doesn't mean they don't have a ton of issues. On raids we blow through power super fast which means oure dps drops off heavily towards the end of a fight. Other classes have much better power consumption. Another issue is lack of cold spells. The AE dot works but its not ideal for a raid situation to say the least and because Ice Comet is 45sec recast it really doesn't have good DPS its just a huge nuke thats nice to throw in with other steady nuking. Because of the lack of ice spells any heat immune mob turns us into a pretty useless class. Another big issue is the huge variance in our spells damage. If a spell hits for close to max its very good power wise but if it hits on the low end of the scale it costs way to much power for the damage. A great example is Ball of Incineration. Mine is about 1400-2700 for 250ish power every 9 seconds. 1400 damage for 250 power is really bad but 2700 for 250 isn't to bad. Such a huge variance hurts our dps throughout a raid if spells are landing on the low end more often then the high end. Another issue which is made a much bigger issue by spell variance is the long casting times on our bigger spells. 3 seconds is a very long cast time if Ball of incineration hits for 1400 but if it hits for 2700, 3 seconds is pretty good dps. While wizards are uber soloing all these issues add up to make us subpar on raids compared to a lot of other dps classes( most dps classes in fact).