Current Wizard spell issues

Sotha · 10-12-2005, 04:02 AM

Ok I know we are kicking some @ss at the moment but there are still a few things that would be nice to see modified, nothing game breaking,

class breaking, but some of the spells we have have little to no use at all.

Heat Line: This one is interesting, by what the patch notes stated, they clarified the decription of the spell, it doesnt stifle at all no more.

This makes the spell once again useless, as the damage component is far to low for the level in which the spell is aquired. A good fix would

be to re-instate the stifle component.

Stuns: The line of stuns that we have has had its duration secretly changed to 3 seconds, which for a stun is rather a painful thing to see

The damage component still does a high amount of damage but with the retimer that it has, having the stun changed without any comment from

SOE is a bad move. The line needs to have it stun changed to the original value, even if this was an intentional change, as the duration barely

gives us enough time to cast another spell. The stifle line has had its duration decreased to 4 seconds, which while still useable, is rather unnessisary

to nerf it the way it was.

Icebound Gift/Surge: These spells still only tick off the first tick of a dot. Not sure if this is intentional or not, it would be nice to see this clarified by

a dev. We only have a few dots so this is not a major problem.

Protoflame Bug: The pet doesnt upgrade when changed from adept 1 to adept 3 version, damage output and hitpoints staying the same.

Surging Tempest Bug: Anytime a mob dies without surging tempest having elapsed the spell keeps active and maintained until the

spell duration expires or you cancel the spell manually. This has the effect that the recast timer does not start when the mob dies but

rather when the full duration of the spell has passed (or manually cancelled). Also the spell has a 48 second duration, but the last 8 seconds

does not tick.

Forge of Ro Bug: When this spell is used in a duel and you lose, xp debt and equipment damage will be in full affect as in liken to normal death.

When interrupted casting this spell, the recast timer is reset to its full rather than the 3 seconds. Also this pet doesnt increase in damage output

or hitpoints when upgraded from adept 1 (which I somehow managed to find) to adept 3

Coil/Icicles Line Due to our lack of fast casting "red star" icons for Heroic Opportunities, it would be logical to see this entire line fit the "red star" icon

HO, as currently, only icy coil is able to do this, where piercing and artic icicles both use the "flame" symbol. It would be preferable to have these

changed to the red star.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________

Icy wind Line Cast timer is too long (4 seconds), 2s is much more appropriate and would be in line with the other aoes. The recast timer i

s also too long, and should be reduced to 10-12 seconds to be in line with other aoe type spells.

Shocking Flash Line Cast timer is 3seconds, it should be 2 seconds. I believe dot damage type spells should all have a fast cast timer

since it takes longer for the damage to tick off there's no sense in it taking forever to cast. It reduces the effectiveness of the spell. Its

recast should be 6 seconds.

One thing I will add, the comments about the aoe lines are opinional, as I think that our aoe line just isnt in par with the rest of the mages,

and still begs the question, should I just take the monsters down one by one.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________

Not really that much broken, but if anybody has anything extra to add I will modify the post to resemble the such.

Message Edited by Sothars on 11-28-2005 06:57 PM

Antai · 10-12-2005, 04:20 AM

Some valid points. But I think the basis of our reasoning must be whether we can do more damage or more effective damage with another spell during the same amount of time. The chance to get a stifle with the heat line is just not worth the low damage you did with that 2 seconds casting. On the other hand the grandeur line is quite nice. You can cast this on all melees before the fight, so it doesnt take anything away from your casting time and just adds the damage. So in your calculation it is almost 1k damage added to what you do. That is nice imo.

Sotha · 10-12-2005, 02:54 PM

Message Edited by Sothars on 10-14-2005 12:54 AM

SidneyLePoilu · 10-12-2005, 03:28 PM

/agree

these lines are useless

Fingle · 10-12-2005, 04:17 PM

I agree too. It's nice that I cast the granduor line once on each melee and it doesn't time out. But it really doesn't add any damage that amounts to anything in a fight. Proto is a nice spell, mechanically i like it as is but would be nice to see an upgrade in animation as the OP said.

Sotha · 10-13-2005, 03:59 AM

After testing the Grandeur line in a raid, ive concluded that the spell is still pretty much useless. I had it cast on a single target to keep it simple, and a majority of the ticks were resisted and when not, the damage wasnt worth mentioning. Highest total damage against a raid mob was about 400, and lowest 80. Its just not powerful enough.

katan_bart · 10-13-2005, 03:32 PM

once again, remember, this spell is costing neiter power while in combat, casting time, or concentration. it is purely extra dmg that would not be done otherwise.

Sotha · 10-13-2005, 03:46 PM

No but it does use a concentration slot

okranclo · 10-13-2005, 04:07 PM

Through probably hundreds of parses while grinding I have to say I am very pleased overall. Our specialty seems to be consistent dps now and we have tools to keep us at or near the top dps-wise in nearly every situation I've been in so far. I do feel that some tweaking still needs to be done in some spells. I'd like to see the minimum damage ratings on our nukes brought up a wee bit, and I think the cast times, particularly on the AOE's could be a little lower. The one big complaint I have is with Surging Tempest. The knockdown on Heroics is nice(even though most ^^^'s are dead before it goes off twice), but with max int and a debuffed mob I don't notice the difference DPS-wise with or without this spell, since the damage is the same as one extra Sunstrike every 10 seconds(not mana free). My suggestions for improving the spell to better match some of the other classes' awesome additions would be either to increase the recast time to maybe 3 minutes and give each tick BoI or IC-like damage, or maybe just add a - 500 hate proc to it and leave it otherwise the same. Another thing is the re-cast timer is excessive given the small damage this spell does. It's essentially 1.5 minutes since the timer doesn't start until you cancel the spell or it runs out. Once again, I tip my hat to the devs for LU13 and with a couple slight improvements I think it can go from really good to fantastic.

Nimington · 10-13-2005, 04:46 PM

Sothars wrote:

Ok I know we are kicking some @ss at the moment but there are still a few things that would be nice to see modified, nothing game breaking, class breaking, but some of the spells we have have little to no use at all.

Surge Line (Example will be Fiery surge): Ok I have this spell at Adept 1, this is the wizard lvl 46 spell. Every spell that is cast will do 16-19 damage for 3 seconds, and the spell lasts for 30 seconds. Each proc costs the caster mana. Ok now lets examine this in detail, lets say I cast 10 spells, and each time it ticks for 18. Thats 54 extra damage overall for each spell, so 10 seplls makes that 540 damage extra in 30 seconds. Completely and utterly useless, our fast cast low damage nuke does more than that on a regular basis.

     I'm going to more or less have to agree on this one, either the damage should go up, or really just have the spell line do something else. I generally dont feel that i'm lacking in dps enough that the lil bit more this spell adds is worth it, perhaps if it worked like our other added spell line and worked for the whole group I would see the use.

Grandeur Line (Example will be Blazing Grandeur): This spell I was lucky enough to find at Master 1, a lvl 53 spell. When cast on an ally, there is a 25% of the melee attacks that the ally lands will have a chance to do 25-31 for 3 seconds. So lets say we are in a group of 6 taking down heroics, and the particular player gets exacly 1/4 of his attacks with the proc landing, and lets say its a good fight for him, and he fires 40 melee hits successfully. Each proc desides to hit for 29 a tick. So thats 87 total per proc with a grand total of 870. After parsing both raid and group fights, ive concluded that it doesnt even add up to 870 even on raid mobs, the damage barely breaks 400. In groups the resist was less so it hit more, but 200 was around the average.

     Here I disagree, the Grandeur line hits very well when placed on a scout type, either pet or player. Mainly because it costs us little or nothing to use it, after all we dont have anything else to use that concentration for. Also with the way this spell averages out it adds at LEAST the min amout of damage per tick to the DPS of the scout, kuz in most stituations he's going to proc it way more than 4 times every 3 seconds. Also as far as I have been able to see it will overwrite it's self on the mob, thus if he procs it 5 times in one second (ok low chance but it's the stats here) he will get that initial 25-31 damage EVERY proc, thats 125-155 extra damage that second he wouldnt have normally had. Then even if it dosent proc for a bit there is that free damage every second for 3 more. Lastly it APPEARS (i'll look into this more when i get a good group to test with) that each person can proc one of the dots on each mob, thus the dps bonus is per person you apply the spell to.

Protoflame: This ones more of a personal opinion, would be nice to have some upgrades to the animation when you level him, but otherwise a few more hitpoints would be nice, the guy takes a couple of hits and dies.

     My biggest problem with protoflame, it's lil explosion is cool but I generally only use it on the big mobs, but with it being immune to aoe (unless directed) and having such low taunt, it rarely dies, which i would prefer in many situations for that added boost of damage. Not sure how to fix this kuz it shouldn't function as a tank (we are NOT pet classes after all) nor do we want it TURNING that raid mob! As a side note it seems that people use this alot in soloing, i'll have to give that a try, generally I just use my aoe's and dont try droping one mob at a time, more risk, but better exp/hour ratio. I was rather dissapointed that we dont get a nice swarm of flaming balls on upgrade instead of just a more powerfull one (or a new graphic). Oh well perhaps once we get an upgrade to the spell in an expansion or two.

Heat line (Example will be Heat convulsions): This is at adept 1, lvl 45 spell. This does 46-85 damage every 2 seconds, and lasts for 12.5. So thats 6 ticks, and lets say it hits for 60 per tick. thats a total of 360. It apparently has a chance to stifle but it doesnt have that added to the spell damage explaination component.

     IF this like works as intended then it's great, but i'm concerned that it dosent state that it stiffles. If it does then it's almost as good as it was before the changeover (Heat convulsions+protoflame+scout friend = LOTS of stiffles). If it does NOT stiffle then it's a waste of power and time untill it gets fixed.

All in all i think you covered most of it, we really didnt come out too bad in the changes, I DEFINATLY enjoy soloing more but i'm still woried about the pre-42 wizard who has little or no ability to fight a multiple mob encounter.

--

Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant
“I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others...
A Fortune Cooke told me so!”

Sotha · 10-13-2005, 05:44 PM

Ok im thinking of removing the granduer line and replacing it with surging tempest if i can get a little more information on this, as i cannot cast that spell at this time

Grimbard · 10-13-2005, 07:54 PM

I agree. The surge line sucks. Very little damage and it eats away at my power. It just doesn't do enough damage to make any difference. Make it the heat version of Icebound Gift. Protoflame has two issues. It would be nice to have a graphics upgrade and it needs to explode everytime. I would use Protoflame more if it was on a timer and exploded if it was either killed or timed out. A little more damage on the Grandeur line would be nice too.

One other spell line that makes no sense to me...the Boreal line. Do we really use this spell? A mez that stuns us. Why would we use this? It take one mob out of the fight and removes all our DPS at the same time. I would cast this spell if I was a mob, trying to kill a wizard.

Sotha · 10-14-2005, 02:02 AM

The mez on that line lasts longer than any other coecoer mez. It has saved my group a few times, but heres the best bit, there is a bug where if you mez lets say a heroic mob after casting a spell or two on a solo added mob, if the solo mob comes up and hits you, it beraks the mez on you, but the heroic mob will stay mezzed until the timer is up, leaving you free to devestate. Works with any mobs.

FightClubber · 10-14-2005, 02:12 AM

Cool tip! Sounds like an exploit though... anyone reported this yet?

Nimington · 10-14-2005, 08:24 AM

Grimbard wrote:

I agree. The surge line sucks. Very little damage and it eats away at my power. It just doesn't do enough damage to make any difference. Make it the heat version of Icebound Gift. Protoflame has two issues. It would be nice to have a graphics upgrade and it needs to explode everytime. I would use Protoflame more if it was on a timer and exploded if it was either killed or timed out. A little more damage on the Grandeur line would be nice too.

One other spell line that makes no sense to me...the Boreal line. Do we really use this spell? A mez that stuns us. Why would we use this? It take one mob out of the fight and removes all our DPS at the same time. I would cast this spell if I was a mob, trying to kill a wizard.

I do use the Boreal line every once in a while, it is nice when you get one add and are low on power. Sure, your both stunned but 30 sec of power is alot more devistating in our hands than in those of a mob, especially good against caster mobs (kuz normal mobs root is USUALLY better).

--

Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant
“I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others...
A Fortune Cooke told me so!”

iceriven2 · 10-14-2005, 06:35 PM

Ever since live update #13 i used our mez a lot. I lost count on how many times i used it. There been many times were simply rooting the mob doesn't help so i have to take out of the equation so i mez. Yes it takes me out of the equation too but at least more helpful.

FightClubber · 10-15-2005, 02:08 AM

A minor one from me but Heat Stroke at level 31 is laughably awful for the level. Looking back at it pre-combat changes it used to have up-front damage a DoT and a stifle effect... but now it's merely a very poor DoT. Level 31, 170 intelligence, maxed all casting skills, adept 1 : 29-54 every 2 seconds for 12.5 seconds. For comparison, Icy Coil which we got back at level 27 does 24-45 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds. Pretty much the same overall damage, and it has a heat and cold debuff of 378 which helps us with everything else. I hope this line is not continued in later levels. Badda BOOM Ogre Wizard Permafrost

Zyphius · 10-17-2005, 06:13 PM

FightClubber wrote:
Cool tip! Sounds like an exploit though... anyone reported this yet?

Not an exploit or bug... It happens both ways. If you mez a mob, and a group member hits it, ut will unmez and you will still be mezzed (at least that is how it used to work... havent used it at all since LU13).

IllusiveThoughts · 10-17-2005, 11:42 PM

Ice flame wasn't triggering the proc from surge of flames for me.

Anyone else able to replicate my problem? ice bound gift would trigger, but surge of flames wasn't.

Sotha · 10-18-2005, 11:43 AM

IllusiveThoughts wrote:

Ice flame wasn't triggering the proc from surge of flames for me.

Anyone else able to replicate my problem? ice bound gift would trigger, but surge of flames wasn't.

I will attempt to duplicate this tonight

IllusiveThoughts · 10-18-2005, 11:30 PM

oh and one more thing.

dots should trigger those side effect spells each time the dot lands, not just the first time.

for instance, surge of flames should trigger each time cremate ticks. Right now it only triggers once, and icebound gift should trigger with each dot tick of our debuff, that would make the spells more useful and used more often, because the puny amount of dmg they add isn't worth casting the spells.

Sotha · 10-19-2005, 03:55 AM

confirmed, ice flame doesnt trigger the dot, and cremate doesnt retrigger with ticks, post updated

IllusiveThoughts · 10-19-2005, 06:48 PM

also icy wind only triggers once

ActionJacksi · 10-21-2005, 10:53 PM

I like the idea of having some spells to cast in an emergency. I'd like to see Surge do much more damage and given a much longer recast. Something we could trigger to save the group.

Darien al'Staff · 10-22-2005, 11:30 AM

Surge line is the biggest issue....utterly worthless.

Orionv · 10-23-2005, 02:47 PM

I don't think the surge line is useless. It's like mez...situational. When I'm facing 1 up arrow mobs I'll use it, because more often than not the mob stays alive with 1% health after my final nuke. Utterly annoying. So I use this to push the damage on each nuke so that it can't do that.

Another thing that I'm confused with is that Blazing Intimidation and Paralyze are part of the Freeze spell line, yet they are used for different heroic opportunities? Freeze has the "star" icon that completes solo HO's that effect the whole encounter. Blazing Intimidation and Paralyze have a "fire" icon which is used for the solo HO "Arcane Enlightenment" that provides power when you are struck. This HO is very rare. Additionally, the "star" HO often appears when initiating an HO. Forcing you to either use Freeze (a much lower level spell) or use 2 other spells: Ring of Cold (does no damage) or Freezing Wind. Freezing Wind's casting time is 4 seconds, which is too long to complete a solo HO, on a mob that you can finish off in about 4 seconds with Immolation and Flamestrike, not to mention Freezing Wind is a DoT, and in order to be effective you would have to wait for it to complete. Again, simply casting Immolation and Flamestrike would be quicker.

So seems to me we need these two spells changed back to a "star" icon in order to make HO's more effective. Right now they feel like 40% effective, most of the time popping up with the "star" icon and making it pointless to finish the HO.

OR, add a new HO that utilizes the "fire" icon, perhaps a minor buff similar to Swindler's Luck with scouts, that boosts Disruption skill slightly.

Nimington · 10-25-2005, 12:20 AM

Here are a few follow up points:

First off the surge line, well i happened to notice the other day, that with 0! power cost and a .5 sec cast / cast delay (for a total of 1 second time lost) this spell is almost free damage, the damage may not be much, but with most tanks i have to put a bit of pause in between nukes as is so i dont die, so this spell line may not be great, but it's free. I would still rather see some other kind of ability if the damage cant be increased.

Second, the Heat line of spells IS BROKEN, did some testing on this spell the other day by dueling some friends, after 10 casts they never once noticed a stiffle, and i had them strip down to as little heat resist as possable. W/o the stiffle component this spell isnt worth it, hopefully it will get looked at soon.

Anyways, that's what I have for now, laters

--

Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant
“I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others...
A Fortune Cooke told me so!”

Sotha · 10-30-2005, 04:43 AM

Anybody else notice that our aoe line is pretty weak? I noticed that every mage class can do more aoe damage than us SMILEY

Sotha · 10-30-2005, 09:47 AM

Edited post for surging tempest bug

-Strife- · 10-30-2005, 01:28 PM

This is a long standing issue, I thought I would bring up since noone has mentioned it here, mostly thought of this though because of a designer response to this.

Oakbrow wrote:

Nul Absolution will advance an HO with the lightning symbol, but Nil Absolution will not. It has the red star symbol. This really cuts into my HO opportunities, because the lightning bolt one (Arcane Fury, I think) comes up much more often than the red star one (Arcane Storm?).

It doesn't seem to make sense that spells in the same line, on the same timer, have different HO advancement potential. Surely this is a bug? And one that will be corrected soon?

Archonix wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Nil Absolution will share the same HO advancement as the rest of the spell line in an upcoming update.

From: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=64674#M64674

For Wizards - the Icy Coil --> Piercing Icicles --> Arctic Icicles (I guess) line shares a similar discrepancy.

Icy Coil gets the Red Star, Piercing Icicles the Fire Symbol - and I think Arctic Icicles the same Fire Symbol.

I would hope that they would all share the Red Star Symbol, as it is the one that we need a fast casting HO Finisher the most, in fact I still keep Icy Coil hotkeyed for this very reason. Secondly, all of our stuns once had the Red Star Symbol prior to LU6-9 or somewhere in that region, what was the reasoning behind changing it to whatever it is now?

The Fire Symbol, is fairly rare and is easily taken care of by the Immolation, Stun, and the uh.. other line.. (crap dot + non-existant stifle).

The Lightning Symbol, the most common and easily taken care of by most of our major nukes excluding Ice Comet.

The Star Symbol, the second most common and somewhat difficult to complete due to this discrepancy and the fact that the AoE's carry this, and they all have a fairly slow cast time. Not to mention using group spells on single targets, or mezzed targets, and mana-efficiency in general. I think we should have a single target Red Star Heroic Opportunity option that isn't grey (Icy Coil). I know Ice Comet carries this symbol but it is far to slow casting and re-casting to reliably depend on.

I guess i'd just like to see Archonix or another desighner to take a look see at this line and perhaps make it all one symbol as they plan on doing with the Warlock spells, hopefully the Red Star Symbol.

Message Edited by -Strife- on 10-30-2005 01:47 AM

10-12-2005, 04:17 PM	#5
Fingle Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Najena Posts: 100	I agree too. It's nice that I cast the granduor line once on each melee and it doesn't time out. But it really doesn't add any damage that amounts to anything in a fight. Proto is a nice spell, mechanically i like it as is but would be nice to see an upgrade in animation as the OP said. __________________

10-13-2005, 04:46 PM	#10
Nimington Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	Sothars wrote: Ok I know we are kicking some @ss at the moment but there are still a few things that would be nice to see modified, nothing game breaking, class breaking, but some of the spells we have have little to no use at all. Surge Line (Example will be Fiery surge): Ok I have this spell at Adept 1, this is the wizard lvl 46 spell. Every spell that is cast will do 16-19 damage for 3 seconds, and the spell lasts for 30 seconds. Each proc costs the caster mana. Ok now lets examine this in detail, lets say I cast 10 spells, and each time it ticks for 18. Thats 54 extra damage overall for each spell, so 10 seplls makes that 540 damage extra in 30 seconds. Completely and utterly useless, our fast cast low damage nuke does more than that on a regular basis. I'm going to more or less have to agree on this one, either the damage should go up, or really just have the spell line do something else. I generally dont feel that i'm lacking in dps enough that the lil bit more this spell adds is worth it, perhaps if it worked like our other added spell line and worked for the whole group I would see the use. Grandeur Line (Example will be Blazing Grandeur): This spell I was lucky enough to find at Master 1, a lvl 53 spell. When cast on an ally, there is a 25% of the melee attacks that the ally lands will have a chance to do 25-31 for 3 seconds. So lets say we are in a group of 6 taking down heroics, and the particular player gets exacly 1/4 of his attacks with the proc landing, and lets say its a good fight for him, and he fires 40 melee hits successfully. Each proc desides to hit for 29 a tick. So thats 87 total per proc with a grand total of 870. After parsing both raid and group fights, ive concluded that it doesnt even add up to 870 even on raid mobs, the damage barely breaks 400. In groups the resist was less so it hit more, but 200 was around the average. Here I disagree, the Grandeur line hits very well when placed on a scout type, either pet or player. Mainly because it costs us little or nothing to use it, after all we dont have anything else to use that concentration for. Also with the way this spell averages out it adds at LEAST the min amout of damage per tick to the DPS of the scout, kuz in most stituations he's going to proc it way more than 4 times every 3 seconds. Also as far as I have been able to see it will overwrite it's self on the mob, thus if he procs it 5 times in one second (ok low chance but it's the stats here) he will get that initial 25-31 damage EVERY proc, thats 125-155 extra damage that second he wouldnt have normally had. Then even if it dosent proc for a bit there is that free damage every second for 3 more. Lastly it APPEARS (i'll look into this more when i get a good group to test with) that each person can proc one of the dots on each mob, thus the dps bonus is per person you apply the spell to. Protoflame: This ones more of a personal opinion, would be nice to have some upgrades to the animation when you level him, but otherwise a few more hitpoints would be nice, the guy takes a couple of hits and dies. My biggest problem with protoflame, it's lil explosion is cool but I generally only use it on the big mobs, but with it being immune to aoe (unless directed) and having such low taunt, it rarely dies, which i would prefer in many situations for that added boost of damage. Not sure how to fix this kuz it shouldn't function as a tank (we are NOT pet classes after all) nor do we want it TURNING that raid mob! As a side note it seems that people use this alot in soloing, i'll have to give that a try, generally I just use my aoe's and dont try droping one mob at a time, more risk, but better exp/hour ratio. I was rather dissapointed that we dont get a nice swarm of flaming balls on upgrade instead of just a more powerfull one (or a new graphic). Oh well perhaps once we get an upgrade to the spell in an expansion or two. Heat line (Example will be Heat convulsions): This is at adept 1, lvl 45 spell. This does 46-85 damage every 2 seconds, and lasts for 12.5. So thats 6 ticks, and lets say it hits for 60 per tick. thats a total of 360. It apparently has a chance to stifle but it doesnt have that added to the spell damage explaination component. IF this like works as intended then it's great, but i'm concerned that it dosent state that it stiffles. If it does then it's almost as good as it was before the changeover (Heat convulsions+protoflame+scout friend = LOTS of stiffles). If it does NOT stiffle then it's a waste of power and time untill it gets fixed. All in all i think you covered most of it, we really didnt come out too bad in the changes, I DEFINATLY enjoy soloing more but i'm still woried about the pre-42 wizard who has little or no ability to fight a multiple mob encounter. -- Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant “I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cooke told me so!” __________________ -- Nimington Master of the Obvious. "I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cookie told me so!"

10-14-2005, 08:24 AM	#15
Nimington Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	Grimbard wrote: I agree. The surge line sucks. Very little damage and it eats away at my power. It just doesn't do enough damage to make any difference. Make it the heat version of Icebound Gift. Protoflame has two issues. It would be nice to have a graphics upgrade and it needs to explode everytime. I would use Protoflame more if it was on a timer and exploded if it was either killed or timed out. A little more damage on the Grandeur line would be nice too. One other spell line that makes no sense to me...the Boreal line. Do we really use this spell? A mez that stuns us. Why would we use this? It take one mob out of the fight and removes all our DPS at the same time. I would cast this spell if I was a mob, trying to kill a wizard. I do use the Boreal line every once in a while, it is nice when you get one add and are low on power. Sure, your both stunned but 30 sec of power is alot more devistating in our hands than in those of a mob, especially good against caster mobs (kuz normal mobs root is USUALLY better). -- Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant “I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cooke told me so!” __________________ -- Nimington Master of the Obvious. "I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cookie told me so!"

10-17-2005, 06:13 PM	#18
Zyphius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 544	FightClubber wrote: Cool tip! Sounds like an exploit though... anyone reported this yet? Not an exploit or bug... It happens both ways. If you mez a mob, and a group member hits it, ut will unmez and you will still be mezzed (at least that is how it used to work... havent used it at all since LU13). __________________ Exalted Zyphius Most'Dieus, Destroyer of Fairies, 80 Wizard/80 Sage of Unrest Arion Cessation, 26 Necro of Unrest Twilight Raiders

10-17-2005, 11:42 PM	#19
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	Ice flame wasn't triggering the proc from surge of flames for me. Anyone else able to replicate my problem? ice bound gift would trigger, but surge of flames wasn't. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

10-12-2005, 04:02 AM	#1
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Ok I know we are kicking some @ss at the moment but there are still a few things that would be nice to see modified, nothing game breaking, class breaking, but some of the spells we have have little to no use at all. Heat Line: This one is interesting, by what the patch notes stated, they clarified the decription of the spell, it doesnt stifle at all no more. This makes the spell once again useless, as the damage component is far to low for the level in which the spell is aquired. A good fix would be to re-instate the stifle component. Stuns: The line of stuns that we have has had its duration secretly changed to 3 seconds, which for a stun is rather a painful thing to see The damage component still does a high amount of damage but with the retimer that it has, having the stun changed without any comment from SOE is a bad move. The line needs to have it stun changed to the original value, even if this was an intentional change, as the duration barely gives us enough time to cast another spell. The stifle line has had its duration decreased to 4 seconds, which while still useable, is rather unnessisary to nerf it the way it was. Icebound Gift/Surge: These spells still only tick off the first tick of a dot. Not sure if this is intentional or not, it would be nice to see this clarified by a dev. We only have a few dots so this is not a major problem. Protoflame Bug: The pet doesnt upgrade when changed from adept 1 to adept 3 version, damage output and hitpoints staying the same. Surging Tempest Bug: Anytime a mob dies without surging tempest having elapsed the spell keeps active and maintained until the spell duration expires or you cancel the spell manually. This has the effect that the recast timer does not start when the mob dies but rather when the full duration of the spell has passed (or manually cancelled). Also the spell has a 48 second duration, but the last 8 seconds does not tick. Forge of Ro Bug: When this spell is used in a duel and you lose, xp debt and equipment damage will be in full affect as in liken to normal death. When interrupted casting this spell, the recast timer is reset to its full rather than the 3 seconds. Also this pet doesnt increase in damage output or hitpoints when upgraded from adept 1 (which I somehow managed to find) to adept 3 Coil/Icicles Line Due to our lack of fast casting "red star" icons for Heroic Opportunities, it would be logical to see this entire line fit the "red star" icon HO, as currently, only icy coil is able to do this, where piercing and artic icicles both use the "flame" symbol. It would be preferable to have these changed to the red star. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________ Icy wind Line Cast timer is too long (4 seconds), 2s is much more appropriate and would be in line with the other aoes. The recast timer i s also too long, and should be reduced to 10-12 seconds to be in line with other aoe type spells. Shocking Flash Line Cast timer is 3seconds, it should be 2 seconds. I believe dot damage type spells should all have a fast cast timer since it takes longer for the damage to tick off there's no sense in it taking forever to cast. It reduces the effectiveness of the spell. Its recast should be 6 seconds. One thing I will add, the comments about the aoe lines are opinional, as I think that our aoe line just isnt in par with the rest of the mages, and still begs the question, should I just take the monsters down one by one. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________ Not really that much broken, but if anybody has anything extra to add I will modify the post to resemble the such. Message Edited by Sothars on 11-28-2005 06:57 PM

10-12-2005, 04:20 AM	#2
Antai Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 59	Some valid points. But I think the basis of our reasoning must be whether we can do more damage or more effective damage with another spell during the same amount of time. The chance to get a stifle with the heat line is just not worth the low damage you did with that 2 seconds casting. On the other hand the grandeur line is quite nice. You can cast this on all melees before the fight, so it doesnt take anything away from your casting time and just adds the damage. So in your calculation it is almost 1k damage added to what you do. That is nice imo.

10-12-2005, 02:54 PM	#3
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Message Edited by Sothars on 10-14-2005 12:54 AM

10-12-2005, 03:28 PM	#4
SidneyLePoilu Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 43	/agree these lines are useless

10-13-2005, 03:59 AM	#6
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	After testing the Grandeur line in a raid, ive concluded that the spell is still pretty much useless. I had it cast on a single target to keep it simple, and a majority of the ticks were resisted and when not, the damage wasnt worth mentioning. Highest total damage against a raid mob was about 400, and lowest 80. Its just not powerful enough.

10-13-2005, 03:32 PM	#7
katan_bart Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8	once again, remember, this spell is costing neiter power while in combat, casting time, or concentration. it is purely extra dmg that would not be done otherwise.

10-13-2005, 03:46 PM	#8
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	No but it does use a concentration slot

10-13-2005, 04:07 PM	#9
okranclo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Through probably hundreds of parses while grinding I have to say I am very pleased overall. Our specialty seems to be consistent dps now and we have tools to keep us at or near the top dps-wise in nearly every situation I've been in so far. I do feel that some tweaking still needs to be done in some spells. I'd like to see the minimum damage ratings on our nukes brought up a wee bit, and I think the cast times, particularly on the AOE's could be a little lower. The one big complaint I have is with Surging Tempest. The knockdown on Heroics is nice(even though most ^^^'s are dead before it goes off twice), but with max int and a debuffed mob I don't notice the difference DPS-wise with or without this spell, since the damage is the same as one extra Sunstrike every 10 seconds(not mana free). My suggestions for improving the spell to better match some of the other classes' awesome additions would be either to increase the recast time to maybe 3 minutes and give each tick BoI or IC-like damage, or maybe just add a - 500 hate proc to it and leave it otherwise the same. Another thing is the re-cast timer is excessive given the small damage this spell does. It's essentially 1.5 minutes since the timer doesn't start until you cancel the spell or it runs out. Once again, I tip my hat to the devs for LU13 and with a couple slight improvements I think it can go from really good to fantastic.

10-13-2005, 05:44 PM	#11
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Ok im thinking of removing the granduer line and replacing it with surging tempest if i can get a little more information on this, as i cannot cast that spell at this time

10-13-2005, 07:54 PM	#12
Grimbard Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	I agree. The surge line sucks. Very little damage and it eats away at my power. It just doesn't do enough damage to make any difference. Make it the heat version of Icebound Gift. Protoflame has two issues. It would be nice to have a graphics upgrade and it needs to explode everytime. I would use Protoflame more if it was on a timer and exploded if it was either killed or timed out. A little more damage on the Grandeur line would be nice too. One other spell line that makes no sense to me...the Boreal line. Do we really use this spell? A mez that stuns us. Why would we use this? It take one mob out of the fight and removes all our DPS at the same time. I would cast this spell if I was a mob, trying to kill a wizard.

10-14-2005, 02:02 AM	#13
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	The mez on that line lasts longer than any other coecoer mez. It has saved my group a few times, but heres the best bit, there is a bug where if you mez lets say a heroic mob after casting a spell or two on a solo added mob, if the solo mob comes up and hits you, it beraks the mez on you, but the heroic mob will stay mezzed until the timer is up, leaving you free to devestate. Works with any mobs.

10-14-2005, 02:12 AM	#14
FightClubber Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Cool tip! Sounds like an exploit though... anyone reported this yet?

10-14-2005, 06:35 PM	#16
iceriven2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 632	Ever since live update #13 i used our mez a lot. I lost count on how many times i used it. There been many times were simply rooting the mob doesn't help so i have to take out of the equation so i mez. Yes it takes me out of the equation too but at least more helpful.

10-15-2005, 02:08 AM	#17
FightClubber Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	A minor one from me but Heat Stroke at level 31 is laughably awful for the level. Looking back at it pre-combat changes it used to have up-front damage a DoT and a stifle effect... but now it's merely a very poor DoT. Level 31, 170 intelligence, maxed all casting skills, adept 1 : 29-54 every 2 seconds for 12.5 seconds. For comparison, Icy Coil which we got back at level 27 does 24-45 every 4 seconds for 24 seconds. Pretty much the same overall damage, and it has a heat and cold debuff of 378 which helps us with everything else. I hope this line is not continued in later levels. Badda BOOM Ogre Wizard Permafrost

10-18-2005, 11:43 AM	#20
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	IllusiveThoughts wrote: Ice flame wasn't triggering the proc from surge of flames for me. Anyone else able to replicate my problem? ice bound gift would trigger, but surge of flames wasn't. I will attempt to duplicate this tonight

10-18-2005, 11:30 PM	#21
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	oh and one more thing. dots should trigger those side effect spells each time the dot lands, not just the first time. for instance, surge of flames should trigger each time cremate ticks. Right now it only triggers once, and icebound gift should trigger with each dot tick of our debuff, that would make the spells more useful and used more often, because the puny amount of dmg they add isn't worth casting the spells. __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

10-19-2005, 03:55 AM	#22
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	confirmed, ice flame doesnt trigger the dot, and cremate doesnt retrigger with ticks, post updated

10-19-2005, 06:48 PM	#23
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	also icy wind only triggers once __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

10-21-2005, 10:53 PM	#24
ActionJacksi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3	I like the idea of having some spells to cast in an emergency. I'd like to see Surge do much more damage and given a much longer recast. Something we could trigger to save the group.

10-22-2005, 11:30 AM	#25
Darien al'Staff Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 283	Surge line is the biggest issue....utterly worthless. __________________

10-23-2005, 02:47 PM	#26
Orionv General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	I don't think the surge line is useless. It's like mez...situational. When I'm facing 1 up arrow mobs I'll use it, because more often than not the mob stays alive with 1% health after my final nuke. Utterly annoying. So I use this to push the damage on each nuke so that it can't do that. Another thing that I'm confused with is that Blazing Intimidation and Paralyze are part of the Freeze spell line, yet they are used for different heroic opportunities? Freeze has the "star" icon that completes solo HO's that effect the whole encounter. Blazing Intimidation and Paralyze have a "fire" icon which is used for the solo HO "Arcane Enlightenment" that provides power when you are struck. This HO is very rare. Additionally, the "star" HO often appears when initiating an HO. Forcing you to either use Freeze (a much lower level spell) or use 2 other spells: Ring of Cold (does no damage) or Freezing Wind. Freezing Wind's casting time is 4 seconds, which is too long to complete a solo HO, on a mob that you can finish off in about 4 seconds with Immolation and Flamestrike, not to mention Freezing Wind is a DoT, and in order to be effective you would have to wait for it to complete. Again, simply casting Immolation and Flamestrike would be quicker. So seems to me we need these two spells changed back to a "star" icon in order to make HO's more effective. Right now they feel like 40% effective, most of the time popping up with the "star" icon and making it pointless to finish the HO. OR, add a new HO that utilizes the "fire" icon, perhaps a minor buff similar to Swindler's Luck with scouts, that boosts Disruption skill slightly.

10-25-2005, 12:20 AM	#27
Nimington Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 182	Here are a few follow up points: First off the surge line, well i happened to notice the other day, that with 0! power cost and a .5 sec cast / cast delay (for a total of 1 second time lost) this spell is almost free damage, the damage may not be much, but with most tanks i have to put a bit of pause in between nukes as is so i dont die, so this spell line may not be great, but it's free. I would still rather see some other kind of ability if the damage cant be increased. Second, the Heat line of spells IS BROKEN, did some testing on this spell the other day by dueling some friends, after 10 casts they never once noticed a stiffle, and i had them strip down to as little heat resist as possable. W/o the stiffle component this spell isnt worth it, hopefully it will get looked at soon. Anyways, that's what I have for now, laters -- Crinisen the Wandering Cheese Merchant “I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cooke told me so!” __________________ -- Nimington Master of the Obvious. "I am no longer seen as a threat to my self or others... A Fortune Cookie told me so!"

10-30-2005, 04:43 AM	#28
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Anybody else notice that our aoe line is pretty weak? I noticed that every mage class can do more aoe damage than us

10-30-2005, 09:47 AM	#29
Sotha Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Edited post for surging tempest bug

10-30-2005, 01:28 PM	#30
-Strife- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	This is a long standing issue, I thought I would bring up since noone has mentioned it here, mostly thought of this though because of a designer response to this. Oakbrow wrote: Nul Absolution will advance an HO with the lightning symbol, but Nil Absolution will not. It has the red star symbol. This really cuts into my HO opportunities, because the lightning bolt one (Arcane Fury, I think) comes up much more often than the red star one (Arcane Storm?). It doesn't seem to make sense that spells in the same line, on the same timer, have different HO advancement potential. Surely this is a bug? And one that will be corrected soon? Archonix wrote: Thanks for the feedback. Nil Absolution will share the same HO advancement as the rest of the spell line in an upcoming update. From: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=64674#M64674 For Wizards - the Icy Coil --> Piercing Icicles --> Arctic Icicles (I guess) line shares a similar discrepancy. Icy Coil gets the Red Star, Piercing Icicles the Fire Symbol - and I think Arctic Icicles the same Fire Symbol. I would hope that they would all share the Red Star Symbol, as it is the one that we need a fast casting HO Finisher the most, in fact I still keep Icy Coil hotkeyed for this very reason. Secondly, all of our stuns once had the Red Star Symbol prior to LU6-9 or somewhere in that region, what was the reasoning behind changing it to whatever it is now? The Fire Symbol, is fairly rare and is easily taken care of by the Immolation, Stun, and the uh.. other line.. (crap dot + non-existant stifle). The Lightning Symbol, the most common and easily taken care of by most of our major nukes excluding Ice Comet. The Star Symbol, the second most common and somewhat difficult to complete due to this discrepancy and the fact that the AoE's carry this, and they all have a fairly slow cast time. Not to mention using group spells on single targets, or mezzed targets, and mana-efficiency in general. I think we should have a single target Red Star Heroic Opportunity option that isn't grey (Icy Coil). I know Ice Comet carries this symbol but it is far to slow casting and re-casting to reliably depend on. I guess i'd just like to see Archonix or another desighner to take a look see at this line and perhaps make it all one symbol as they plan on doing with the Warlock spells, hopefully the Red Star Symbol. Message Edited by -Strife- on 10-30-2005 01:47 AM