some SOLO days R over, try MM today. great but now at least let us HIT raid mobs. (cold immune)

Icehea · 06-22-2005, 03:56 AM

nothing else to say, do the same instances everyday and today MM is really different (u can tell why if u try). Just if u going to fix somthings so we can't solo this stuff make sure we have other stuff to do like be useful in the raid (not just powerpump and resists), maybe so we can do cold nuke dmg?. Change the raid mob reisists.

iceheart - sad wizzie

Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 05:05 PM

Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 05:30 PM

Yoi · 06-22-2005, 04:47 AM

Dojorn (VoF) and Lavaborn (MG) are the same. Thanks SOE, for taking the only challenging fun out of the game for me as a level 50 wizard.

Icehea · 06-22-2005, 05:00 AM

missread

Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 06:22 PM

Gora · 06-22-2005, 08:18 AM

BS they didn't put it in the patch notes.

I'll bet i can watch melee types solo named all day in feerott still.

Joyous.

Goraga

QQ-Fatman · 06-22-2005, 08:37 AM

would you post what was changed? sorry but i havent got time to try it today SMILEY

IllusiveThoughts · 06-22-2005, 08:42 AM

okay so what happened?

did they change roc? did they make the named mobs epic's and roc no longer lands?

stigg · 06-22-2005, 08:52 AM

[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] I quit the game

[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] SOE, I havent tried but if I can't solo these instances theres no [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing reason to play anymore.

Icehea · 06-22-2005, 09:18 AM

naw ROC will still hold and hit him fine, just that he will own u regardless. all i am saying is load your stifles and pray. and no it isnt the name...didnt even get to him. it is the chest guy.

They will dmg u through out the fight and will cast ice comet or dark dis more than once. By reading this u know what changed if u use to do these.

goodluck all with the bored u will experience now SMILEY

ice

Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 10:24 PM

QQ-Fatman · 06-22-2005, 09:46 AM

i see... so caster mobs now do cast spells when rooted? they used to only cast once right when you root them, and do nothing unless you relase them from rooted...

Daerov · 06-22-2005, 09:54 AM

Right

QQ-Fatman · 06-22-2005, 10:02 AM

Well this sucks... now wizards can only solo melee mobs, and most of melee nameds have ranged abilities... SMILEY

Did anyone check if this apply to snared mobs too? If mobs chain cast spells when snared, I think summoners are doomed too...

Daerov · 06-22-2005, 10:06 AM

There's still hope I think. Some mobs like the priests are a bit weaker in their casting, Darkcoil completely ran out of power when i faced him and I was in the red, higher red %, but he hit me good nonetheless.. it could of just been some good dots that I didn't bother to dispel or forgot or didn't work etc.

I also killed jack/iceberg first then again later in the day and had no problems with it so I'm not sure. We'll have to do some testing cause there may be a way around it but otherwise stuck to melee. And if that didn't answer your question the melee didn't cast ranged stuff on me SMILEY

trysta · 06-22-2005, 11:26 AM

Whoa, I didn't even realize this until I read this thread.. I died three times in the Splitpaw instance today. Normally I can get through it in about half an hour without a single death. I totally didn't even notice it was because casters were casting while they were rooted. While it makes sense that casters can cast while rooted, it totally kills the wizard's soloability.

We need some big changes, now.

SalBlu · 06-22-2005, 04:33 PM

Even though i dont like the change, I think it is for the best.

I did my time soloing Darkcoil, The Black Queen, Lavaborn, Cinderpede, Tundra Jack and Iceberg, and the Bastion of Flames, but really... when you think about it... should we have been able to do so at all? No... I knew it in the back of my head, and just took advantage of the situation while it lasted.

With the new change, they basically "Woke up" the mobs so that they finally realize that they are only rooted in place, and not stifled down as well. Yes, this means that we lose a good ammount of our solo power, but it doesnt mean that we lose it all. We are STILL able to fight melee type mobs solo style. This is fine with me. We are also still able to keep groups of mobs locked down when in small group settings so that we can take them out one at a time.

This is all going to bring about a more willingness to group on everyone's part. The new complaint is going to be that no one will take a Wizard over a Warlock, but I would have to turn that complaint down straight out. In group settings, (non epic) there really isnt much difference between the two classes. We get outdamaged by a small ammount, but a good portion of the time we can deal equal damage. With spell fixes going in eventually, we'll hopefully have our day of reduced spell costs, fixed spells, and reduced resistances.

Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there.

trysta · 06-22-2005, 07:37 PM

SalBluee wrote:

Even though i dont like the change, I think it is for the best.

Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there.

Good positive post, but where exactly are we supposed to be successful? At level 50, the content at the present time is comprised of mostly raid instances, where (although I haven't experienced too much of it) we are supposedly so gimped as to be ineffective. Other classes can solo these mobs as well as or better than we could before this change, and now we can't even hope to accomplish these feats. So what do we have over other classes post-nerf? The only thing I can think of is using our health-to-power spells in the tradeskill instance...

SalBlu · 06-22-2005, 10:12 PM

Well... dont get down on what people will tell you about our uses in raids, because the good of us there far outweighs the bad. We ARE effective damage dealers in every raid we go to, and just because our ice spells are resisted does not [Removed for Content] us.

And honestly... I have never, and will never see a tank solo the same stuff that I was soloing. The easiest of the bunch was Lavaborn, and even then, for a melee fighter to solo him would be a very tough if not impossible thing to do. Now with these mobs casting spells all the time, this is even more evident.

Dont listen to everything you hear here Trystaad. There are alot of people that just believe we should be the end all in damage dealers, and sadly, that is not the case, nor is it a necessity. Instead of asking for a fix for resistances or spell power usage, people will ask for what they think is right, being an increase in power or a nerf to Warlock damage output. Which do you think is the most justified? Nerfing one class to bring you more in line with each other? Or making sure that your spell usage is brought up to speed in terms of mob resistance and spell cost.

Power transfers will also be spit on by alot of people calling them a "Chanter's Power" or the "Job of a Healer". While I think that this belief is along the right lines, I DO get a great deal of satisfaction from dumping about 400 power on someone like a healer who is effectively keeping a raid or group alive. There is a certain lvl of happiness gained in knowing that if you hadnt dumped some power on that person, you'd most likely be dead right now. Not to mention people WILL thank you whole heartedly for that even in the midst of a fight.

So... the mobs I was soloing were:

Darkcoil
Cinderpede
Lavaborn
The Black Queen
Tundra Jack and Iceberg
(and the Efreeti Lord in the Bastion of Flames)

Four of those mobs are deep down inside Solusek's Eye, and surrounded by MANY smaller mobs. These mobs are heavy hitters both in and out of melee combat. I knew full well for a very long time that it was strange that a mob WITH ranged ability would just stay silent while rooted, and yet I didnt think twice about it because it was gaining me coin. Not only coin... but items. From Lavaborn alone i've looted 2 Ebon Coins which I gave away to people that needed them for armors.

Fighting, and winning easily against those mobs just was not intended, and IMHO, a change to Wizard/Warlock soloability was looming on the horizon for a VERY long time.

Lady Uaelr · 06-22-2005, 11:52 PM

That is a good way to look at it but wizards need to be fixed as do all other classes.

We can only sit and wait to see what is coming.

SalBlu · 06-23-2005, 12:00 AM

Yep... for now that is our best bet.

OneBadAli · 06-23-2005, 12:51 AM

Power transfers will also be spit on by alot of people calling them a "Chanter's Power" or the "Job of a Healer". While I think that this belief is along the right lines, I DO get a great deal of satisfaction from dumping about 400 power on someone like a healer who is effectively keeping a raid or group alive. There is a certain lvl of happiness gained in knowing that if you hadnt dumped some power on that person, you'd most likely be dead right now. Not to mention people WILL thank you whole heartedly for that even in the midst of a fight.

Your entitled to your opinion, but its just your opinion. Myself, and the majority of wizards DO NOT GET SATISFACTION FROM BEING A MANA PUMP INSTEAD OF A DPS'er. When i say this im referring to raid mobs, i know we do damage solo, but i cant stand soloing especially after the mob buff's. The resistances/immunes need to be adjusted and our power consumption needs to be adjusted, thats all i really ask. A little more dps would bring us in line with warlocks, which is how it should be. I would be happy nonetheless if just our resistances/immunes were adjusted, and our power consumption was brought in line with warlocks.

Unless you have an under equipped warlock you will get out dps'ed everytime. I have a 50 wizard with 16 tier 5 adept 3's, 5 fabled items, a few incombat mana items, and i still run out of power about 1/4th or 1/2th the way through the raid, while my warlock guildmate is 2 levels lower then me, only a few adept 3's, and constantly spams nukes/debuffs/aoe's the second the timer is up, he never ever ever runs out of power and he only has 1 incombat mana item. His dps is double sometimes triple mine. Its stupid, your just a hater IMO dunno why you continue to ignore the facts and then state that being a mana pump is a statisfaction for a dps class. Your a joke.

Its absolutely silly that you get off on that, im sorry for you. I think something slow like checkers would also be your style, its not for me. I enjoy damage, i was told wizards were damage, and not utility, this is what i want. This is also what the majority of wizards want, the far majority. Your definitely in the minority when it comes to your thinking of what a wizzy can and cant do, and what a wizzy should and shouldnt do.

You can continue to disagree with every other wizard thats fine, but your idea of what a wizard should be is completely different from what we were told by SOE a wizard would be(which was at the top of the food chain when it comes to dps). Hence i got shafted and am very very disappointed.

So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be.

dustye · 06-23-2005, 01:30 AM

My account is cancelled until they fix wizards then. This is the only thing that made the game fun anymore (WOW, MANAPUMPING ON RAIDS IS [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ING EXCITING AS [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]!!!!!!!!)

SalBlu · 06-23-2005, 02:50 AM

Its absolutely silly that you get off on that, im sorry for you. I think something slow like checkers would also be your style, its not for me. I enjoy damage, i was told wizards were damage, and not utility, this is what i want. This is also what the majority of wizards want, the far majority. Your definitely in the minority when it comes to your thinking of what a wizzy can and cant do, and what a wizzy should and shouldnt do.

You can continue to disagree with every other wizard thats fine, but your idea of what a wizard should be is completely different from what we were told by SOE a wizard would be(which was at the top of the food chain when it comes to dps). Hence i got shafted and am very very disappointed.

So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be. I dont appreciate personal attacks, and I've done nothing but put forward good and true information. Being a minority or a majority has nothing to do with the state of the Wizard case at hand, and until I see anything definitive about Wizards being more than they should be right now, then i've done nothing wrong. Once Moorgard comes forth and tells us that we were supposed to be the all powerful, end all, mean machines that every Tom, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], and Jane say we are supposed to be, i'll go ahead and eat my words. But this does not lead away from the fact that aside from damage we are a VERY capable class. We are a VERY good class, and if you're so jealous about power then maybe you should roll up a Warlock. There's nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind that the spell changes are on the way soon, and if I know SOE, changes are going to be made that will redefine Wizards and Warlocks from the ground up.

Sorano · 06-23-2005, 03:07 AM

SalBluee wrote:

Once Moorgard comes forth and tells us that we were supposed to be the all powerful, end all, mean machines that every Tom, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], and Jane say we are supposed to be, i'll go ahead and eat my words. But this does not lead away from the fact that aside from damage we are a VERY capable class.

So you want to hear it form Moorgard himself then?

There have been questions recently about where wizards and warlocks are intended to fit in terms of damage output, as some players are concerned that these classes aren't fulfilling their role in this regard. I thought I'd address some of these questions in a general way, with the understanding that specific answers will have to wait until we have evaluated the damage output of all classes. This post does not promise any timeframe for when changes may occur.

Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly.

Can you honestly sit there and say that wizards and warlocks are doing roughly equivalent damage on raid mobs? Wizards are not only complaining over the fact that warlocks are outdamaging us, but also because nearly every single other class in the game can as well in raid situations. Raid mob resistances are borked. If you think that they are intended to be that way I will point you towards a change made to melee mob resistances a little while ago. Some raid mobs were completely immune to scout damage and they were unable to fulfill their DPS role in raids. Now scouts are THE utility class yet SOE moved to change raid mob resistances so that they could do DPS on raids. Sure wizards have mana feeding ability so we are not completely useless on raids, but that is not our role it is just utility. Our role is primarily DPS and we cannot fulfill that in raids. SOE cannot justify leaving raid mobs resistances as they are, especially given the change they made to melee resistances. No matter what spell changes they give us in the upcoming combat revamp, if raid mob resistances are not looked at, we will still be in the same boat we are in now! Everytime you post that we are fine, there isn't anything wrong with the class, you make it harder for us to get any fixes because it just confuses things by providing contradictory information.

Asterra · 06-23-2005, 06:52 AM

SalBluee wrote:
Well... dont get down on what people will tell you about our uses in raids, because the good of us there far outweighs the bad. We ARE effective damage dealers in every raid we go to

Hmm. Look, I can appreciate the desire to maintain a positive outlook on matters, but the above really does cross the threshold into "dodgy misinformation", if I may euphemize. I'm not going to go so far as to question whether or not you've actually attended garden variety raids like Orcishwastes Caverns, Shattered Stillness (Firemyst), Meeting of the Minds, etc., but it simply isn't possible to say, with both authority and a straight face, that Wizards provide good damage on such raids.

There are alot of people that just believe we should be the end all in damage dealers, and sadly, that is not the case, nor is it a necessity.

Perhaps Moorgard should never have admitted that Sorcerers are supposed to be at the top of the DPS charts. The incompatibility between that admission (which, I should stress, is in agreement with the general perception of those who picked the class) and the reality that people have been stuck with for the game's entire history, is stark. I don't at all think it is unusual or a matter of incredulity that people feel Wizards should be the kings of DPS. It would be a far greater curiosity if Wizards were currently the DPS champs they're supposed to be and people started lobbying for better manadumping capabilities and longer stuns.

ailees · 06-23-2005, 12:00 PM

I read Salblue's post, then Onebadallien's answer with : "So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be" I cannot understand that she should not say what she thinks just because you think she's in a FAR MINORITY. I don't see why she should not say it. Or do you think that having the majority gives you all rights ? BTW, I totally agree with Salblue, I'm happy with my wizz, as she is. Yesterday in a raid, raid leader told me "take care of X and Y, they must have power or we will wipe" ; I was very happy being useful. Of course as a player, I'm much more a teamer than anything else. I don't like soloing, and I don't care if I am not in the top 10 damagers of the server. I don't' see why a player allows himself to forbid us to speak (or type).

SalBlu · 06-23-2005, 03:12 PM

There have been questions recently about where wizards and warlocks are intended to fit in terms of damage output, as some players are concerned that these classes aren't fulfilling their role in this regard. I thought I'd address some of these questions in a general way, with the understanding that specific answers will have to wait until we have evaluated the damage output of all classes. This post does not promise any timeframe for when changes may occur.

Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly. Thats all well and good, but it still doesnt say raid mobs, and his statement can be taken a number of ways. Highest damage output over time, highest damage output via single nuke, highest damage output through single encounter, highest damage output in heroic encounter... highest damage output in a raid situation. Let him come forward and say that Wizards are supposed to outdamage everyone in every situation. That's not going to happen. And this statement by Moorgard was not made in direct relation to our abilities in raids. Most likely he was making a general comment in regards to small group setting. And if you've bothered to read any of my other posts, I've ALWAYS said that it is raid mob resistances that need to be re-adjusted, and not the Wizard's spell lineup. I was never against that in the first place, but I guess in everyone's effort to nay-say me that was overlooked. Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with Wizards besides a broken Protoflame, spell cost totals, and EPIC resistances. Everytime you post that we are fine, there isn't anything wrong with the class, you make it harder for us to get any fixes because it just confuses things by providing contradictory information. Allright, but that neglects the fact that some of us still do enjoy how we play our wizards at this time right now. Just because someone labels me as the "minority" doesnt lead away from the fact that I can still post my feelings about the class, and about the direction we have been following. IMO, besides 3 things, we ARE fine. We are fulfilling what we were meant to do, and I knew what our role was going to be ever since I researched the change from Sorceror to either Wizard or Warlock way back in December. I still have a printout sitting here on my desk as a matter of fact that details spells for each class, and how they lined up to each other in the progression to lvl 50. I see our Depart... and yep... I see our Power Transfers. They've been there from the very beginning.

Sorano · 06-23-2005, 04:35 PM

nothing else to say, do the same instances everyday and today MM is really different (u can tell why if u try). Just if u going to fix somthings so we can't solo this stuff make sure we have other stuff to do like be useful in the raid (not just powerpump and resists), maybe so we can do cold nuke dmg?. Change the raid mob reisists.

The above paragraph is the OP's message. All he is asking for is a change to raid resists, yet you respond with a post on warlock damage and how wizards aren't much different and we should just suck it up and stop complaining. That is why people are perhaps missing your other posts in support of changing raid mob resistances. Once you get to level 50 there is nothing much left to do except raid, so for a wizard the current endgame is not something to look forward to. It's a pretty big class breaking issue for me anyway that raid mob resistances make my character pretty much useless for anything but manafeeding. In fact it's such a big issue that I don't really play my wizzy much anymore. I honestly have more fun levelling my alt. I am giving SOE time to fix things with the big combat revamp, but if after the changes wizards and casters in general still continue to be second class to melee, I will be taking my money elsewhere.

SalBlu · 06-23-2005, 04:59 PM

The above paragraph is the OP's message. All he is asking for is a change to raid resists, yet you respond with a post on warlock damage and how wizards aren't much different and we should just suck it up and stop complaining. That is why people are perhaps missing your other posts in support of changing raid mob resistances. Once you get to level 50 there is nothing much left to do except raid, so for a wizard the current endgame is not something to look forward to. It's a pretty big class breaking issue for me anyway that raid mob resistances make my character pretty much useless for anything but manafeeding. In fact it's such a big issue that I don't really play my wizzy much anymore. I honestly have more fun levelling my alt. I am giving SOE time to fix things with the big combat revamp, but if after the changes wizards and casters in general still continue to be second class to melee, I will be taking my money elsewhere.

I never said suck it up and stop complaining. I said:

Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there.

I feel that was a pretty positive statement on my part. I do truly believe that we just need to hang in there and wait and see what happens with the spell revamp that everyone is talking about. I'm sure alot of issues that we have brought up both in the Wizarding forums and in other forums will be addressed.

I'm sorry... I should have quoted from the PM I received about this thread. That's why there was mention of the Wizard/Warlock issue. I had a question directed at me that read:

If you see the new thread that got created, the OP says that all we need is raid resistnances dropped so that we can do damage again with a ful set of spells in the form of nukes. What is saying now that a group will pick me over a warlock? I know what you'll say, and that would be that we are the equal blah blah blah, but you're dead wrong in every respect of this game and you should shut up you know nothing idiot. Dont bother replying or posting [Removed for Content].

I didnt feel that posting that message would be helpful to this post, and would only cause for more hate. But that is why I mentioned Warlock vs Wizard grouping only briefly. I had it in mind when I was typing the post, and I think instead of giving into a flame fest with the above posted person via PMs I tried to make light of it through a valid and non-inflammatory message.

Listen... I dont want to be the hated one here, but there are different points of view on the class. In my situation, I still think that we are a very good and legitimate class that has all the capabilities they need save for a few EPIC raid resists, power consumption, and a broken Protoflame. If you dont agree with me thats fine, I can respect that some people dont have the same views as myself. But I dont post to get flamed. My posting is derived from someone who likes to play Wizards as they are, and copes with what i've been given. If we get upgraded farther down the line, so be it. I'd be happy to get a spell boost because i'm a power hungry woman in the end, but I also dont see it as a justified improvement to put us so far out ahead of the pack when we are still a viable class in and of itself right now.

Asterra · 06-23-2005, 06:46 PM

It's a little difficult to accept the idea that Wizards are currently an acceptably viable class when I play one and don't have any particular penchant for unjustified optimism. As a case in point, my guild recently recruited three Warlocks, but in its entire six month history has not recruited a single new Wizard, and this is due to very down-to-earth facts about the viability of Wizards - facts which have everything to do with role fulfillment and nothing to do with hope for the future, particularly not with half a year of relative pointlessness.

SalBlu · 06-23-2005, 07:00 PM

Well... I'm sorry for that. I think it is a mistake on your guild's part to only justify recruiting people in relation to their damage dealing abilities.

I know that last night, when my guild and I fought Darathar, my 1000+ points of fire resist were a welcome addition to where I was. Between myself and the Warden in my group, we had buffed for about 2500 fire resist, topping our main tank off at about 7000 fire resist. We effectively shrugged off Darathar's breath attack having an average resistance of about 6300 fire resist each.

Heh... we didnt win though. It was our first time fighting Darathar, and we didnt have the first clue as to how to go about defeating him. Tried many different strategies, but the best we could do was get him down to 79%. We're trying to formulate a new plan now as to how to get him down.

But anyway... its too bad your guild is not more appreciative of Wizards. I know my guild has more Wizards than Warlocks. I think we have 6 Wizards, and only 2 Warlocks. And we only really have myself and one or two of the other Wizards in raids. The Warlocks dont tend to join us for some reason.

Yaotzi · 06-24-2005, 06:00 PM

darathar does not equal daily raid zones, wizards do not fill their class role, hell for the all instances (just about) wizards are the most useless and all other classes (except rangers..haha jk guys =P) would be more beneficial to the group. now ive checked out your guild a little saloma and honestly i dont think you have the right to say "oh wizards aren't so bad" when you do 1 zone 3 times a week, trying doing 5 instances,plus the other zones with lockout timers every day and tell me how you feel about wizards in 3-4weeks of no dps and constanst feeding to feel useful. edited because i cant type

Message Edited by Yaotzin! on 06-24-2005 07:02 AM

06-22-2005, 08:42 AM	#6
IllusiveThoughts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,311	okay so what happened? did they change roc? did they make the named mobs epic's and roc no longer lands? __________________ The wizards creed: __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ you will die, you will die often, you will die for no reason, you will die for a reason, you will die because soe wants you to die, did I mention you will die? Start getting used to it.

06-22-2005, 09:18 AM	#8
Icehea Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 45	naw ROC will still hold and hit him fine, just that he will own u regardless. all i am saying is load your stifles and pray. and no it isnt the name...didnt even get to him. it is the chest guy. They will dmg u through out the fight and will cast ice comet or dark dis more than once. By reading this u know what changed if u use to do these. goodluck all with the bored u will experience now ice Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 10:24 PM

06-22-2005, 09:54 AM	#10
Daerov Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Right __________________ ~Dae Daerovyn High Elf Level 50 Wizard Level 10 Scholar Toxxulia Server

06-22-2005, 10:02 AM	#11
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	Well this sucks... now wizards can only solo melee mobs, and most of melee nameds have ranged abilities... Did anyone check if this apply to snared mobs too? If mobs chain cast spells when snared, I think summoners are doomed too...

06-22-2005, 10:06 AM	#12
Daerov Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	There's still hope I think. Some mobs like the priests are a bit weaker in their casting, Darkcoil completely ran out of power when i faced him and I was in the red, higher red %, but he hit me good nonetheless.. it could of just been some good dots that I didn't bother to dispel or forgot or didn't work etc. I also killed jack/iceberg first then again later in the day and had no problems with it so I'm not sure. We'll have to do some testing cause there may be a way around it but otherwise stuck to melee. And if that didn't answer your question the melee didn't cast ranged stuff on me __________________ ~Dae Daerovyn High Elf Level 50 Wizard Level 10 Scholar Toxxulia Server

06-22-2005, 03:56 AM	#1
Icehea Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 45	nothing else to say, do the same instances everyday and today MM is really different (u can tell why if u try). Just if u going to fix somthings so we can't solo this stuff make sure we have other stuff to do like be useful in the raid (not just powerpump and resists), maybe so we can do cold nuke dmg?. Change the raid mob reisists. iceheart - sad wizzie Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 05:05 PM Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 05:30 PM

06-22-2005, 04:47 AM	#2
Yoi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	Dojorn (VoF) and Lavaborn (MG) are the same. Thanks SOE, for taking the only challenging fun out of the game for me as a level 50 wizard.

06-22-2005, 05:00 AM	#3
Icehea Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 45	missread Message Edited by Iceheart on 06-21-2005 06:22 PM

06-22-2005, 08:18 AM	#4
Gora Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 72	BS they didn't put it in the patch notes. I'll bet i can watch melee types solo named all day in feerott still. Joyous. Goraga

06-22-2005, 08:37 AM	#5
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	would you post what was changed? sorry but i havent got time to try it today

06-22-2005, 08:52 AM	#7
stigg Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 35	[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] I quit the game [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] SOE, I havent tried but if I can't solo these instances theres no [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing reason to play anymore.

06-22-2005, 09:46 AM	#9
QQ-Fatman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 538	i see... so caster mobs now do cast spells when rooted? they used to only cast once right when you root them, and do nothing unless you relase them from rooted...

06-22-2005, 11:26 AM	#13
trysta General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 142	Whoa, I didn't even realize this until I read this thread.. I died three times in the Splitpaw instance today. Normally I can get through it in about half an hour without a single death. I totally didn't even notice it was because casters were casting while they were rooted. While it makes sense that casters can cast while rooted, it totally kills the wizard's soloability. We need some big changes, now. __________________

06-22-2005, 04:33 PM	#14
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	Even though i dont like the change, I think it is for the best. I did my time soloing Darkcoil, The Black Queen, Lavaborn, Cinderpede, Tundra Jack and Iceberg, and the Bastion of Flames, but really... when you think about it... should we have been able to do so at all? No... I knew it in the back of my head, and just took advantage of the situation while it lasted. With the new change, they basically "Woke up" the mobs so that they finally realize that they are only rooted in place, and not stifled down as well. Yes, this means that we lose a good ammount of our solo power, but it doesnt mean that we lose it all. We are STILL able to fight melee type mobs solo style. This is fine with me. We are also still able to keep groups of mobs locked down when in small group settings so that we can take them out one at a time. This is all going to bring about a more willingness to group on everyone's part. The new complaint is going to be that no one will take a Wizard over a Warlock, but I would have to turn that complaint down straight out. In group settings, (non epic) there really isnt much difference between the two classes. We get outdamaged by a small ammount, but a good portion of the time we can deal equal damage. With spell fixes going in eventually, we'll hopefully have our day of reduced spell costs, fixed spells, and reduced resistances. Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there.

06-22-2005, 07:37 PM	#15
trysta General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 142	SalBluee wrote: Even though i dont like the change, I think it is for the best. Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there. Good positive post, but where exactly are we supposed to be successful? At level 50, the content at the present time is comprised of mostly raid instances, where (although I haven't experienced too much of it) we are supposedly so gimped as to be ineffective. Other classes can solo these mobs as well as or better than we could before this change, and now we can't even hope to accomplish these feats. So what do we have over other classes post-nerf? The only thing I can think of is using our health-to-power spells in the tradeskill instance... __________________

06-22-2005, 10:12 PM	#16
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	Well... dont get down on what people will tell you about our uses in raids, because the good of us there far outweighs the bad. We ARE effective damage dealers in every raid we go to, and just because our ice spells are resisted does not [Removed for Content] us. And honestly... I have never, and will never see a tank solo the same stuff that I was soloing. The easiest of the bunch was Lavaborn, and even then, for a melee fighter to solo him would be a very tough if not impossible thing to do. Now with these mobs casting spells all the time, this is even more evident. Dont listen to everything you hear here Trystaad. There are alot of people that just believe we should be the end all in damage dealers, and sadly, that is not the case, nor is it a necessity. Instead of asking for a fix for resistances or spell power usage, people will ask for what they think is right, being an increase in power or a nerf to Warlock damage output. Which do you think is the most justified? Nerfing one class to bring you more in line with each other? Or making sure that your spell usage is brought up to speed in terms of mob resistance and spell cost. Power transfers will also be spit on by alot of people calling them a "Chanter's Power" or the "Job of a Healer". While I think that this belief is along the right lines, I DO get a great deal of satisfaction from dumping about 400 power on someone like a healer who is effectively keeping a raid or group alive. There is a certain lvl of happiness gained in knowing that if you hadnt dumped some power on that person, you'd most likely be dead right now. Not to mention people WILL thank you whole heartedly for that even in the midst of a fight. So... the mobs I was soloing were: Darkcoil Cinderpede Lavaborn The Black Queen Tundra Jack and Iceberg (and the Efreeti Lord in the Bastion of Flames) Four of those mobs are deep down inside Solusek's Eye, and surrounded by MANY smaller mobs. These mobs are heavy hitters both in and out of melee combat. I knew full well for a very long time that it was strange that a mob WITH ranged ability would just stay silent while rooted, and yet I didnt think twice about it because it was gaining me coin. Not only coin... but items. From Lavaborn alone i've looted 2 Ebon Coins which I gave away to people that needed them for armors. Fighting, and winning easily against those mobs just was not intended, and IMHO, a change to Wizard/Warlock soloability was looming on the horizon for a VERY long time.

06-22-2005, 11:52 PM	#17
Lady Uaelr General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 476	That is a good way to look at it but wizards need to be fixed as do all other classes. We can only sit and wait to see what is coming.

06-23-2005, 12:00 AM	#18
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	Yep... for now that is our best bet.

06-23-2005, 12:51 AM	#19
OneBadAli Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 159	Power transfers will also be spit on by alot of people calling them a "Chanter's Power" or the "Job of a Healer". While I think that this belief is along the right lines, I DO get a great deal of satisfaction from dumping about 400 power on someone like a healer who is effectively keeping a raid or group alive. There is a certain lvl of happiness gained in knowing that if you hadnt dumped some power on that person, you'd most likely be dead right now. Not to mention people WILL thank you whole heartedly for that even in the midst of a fight. Your entitled to your opinion, but its just your opinion. Myself, and the majority of wizards DO NOT GET SATISFACTION FROM BEING A MANA PUMP INSTEAD OF A DPS'er. When i say this im referring to raid mobs, i know we do damage solo, but i cant stand soloing especially after the mob buff's. The resistances/immunes need to be adjusted and our power consumption needs to be adjusted, thats all i really ask. A little more dps would bring us in line with warlocks, which is how it should be. I would be happy nonetheless if just our resistances/immunes were adjusted, and our power consumption was brought in line with warlocks. Unless you have an under equipped warlock you will get out dps'ed everytime. I have a 50 wizard with 16 tier 5 adept 3's, 5 fabled items, a few incombat mana items, and i still run out of power about 1/4th or 1/2th the way through the raid, while my warlock guildmate is 2 levels lower then me, only a few adept 3's, and constantly spams nukes/debuffs/aoe's the second the timer is up, he never ever ever runs out of power and he only has 1 incombat mana item. His dps is double sometimes triple mine. Its stupid, your just a hater IMO dunno why you continue to ignore the facts and then state that being a mana pump is a statisfaction for a dps class. Your a joke. Its absolutely silly that you get off on that, im sorry for you. I think something slow like checkers would also be your style, its not for me. I enjoy damage, i was told wizards were damage, and not utility, this is what i want. This is also what the majority of wizards want, the far majority. Your definitely in the minority when it comes to your thinking of what a wizzy can and cant do, and what a wizzy should and shouldnt do. You can continue to disagree with every other wizard thats fine, but your idea of what a wizard should be is completely different from what we were told by SOE a wizard would be(which was at the top of the food chain when it comes to dps). Hence i got shafted and am very very disappointed. So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be.

06-23-2005, 01:30 AM	#20
dustye Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 42	My account is cancelled until they fix wizards then. This is the only thing that made the game fun anymore (WOW, MANAPUMPING ON RAIDS IS [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ING EXCITING AS [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]!!!!!!!!) __________________ Ceeam 50 Wizard 50 Sage Mistmoore

06-23-2005, 02:50 AM	#21
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	Its absolutely silly that you get off on that, im sorry for you. I think something slow like checkers would also be your style, its not for me. I enjoy damage, i was told wizards were damage, and not utility, this is what i want. This is also what the majority of wizards want, the far majority. Your definitely in the minority when it comes to your thinking of what a wizzy can and cant do, and what a wizzy should and shouldnt do. You can continue to disagree with every other wizard thats fine, but your idea of what a wizard should be is completely different from what we were told by SOE a wizard would be(which was at the top of the food chain when it comes to dps). Hence i got shafted and am very very disappointed. So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be. I dont appreciate personal attacks, and I've done nothing but put forward good and true information. Being a minority or a majority has nothing to do with the state of the Wizard case at hand, and until I see anything definitive about Wizards being more than they should be right now, then i've done nothing wrong. Once Moorgard comes forth and tells us that we were supposed to be the all powerful, end all, mean machines that every Tom, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], and Jane say we are supposed to be, i'll go ahead and eat my words. But this does not lead away from the fact that aside from damage we are a VERY capable class. We are a VERY good class, and if you're so jealous about power then maybe you should roll up a Warlock. There's nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind that the spell changes are on the way soon, and if I know SOE, changes are going to be made that will redefine Wizards and Warlocks from the ground up.

06-23-2005, 03:07 AM	#22
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	SalBluee wrote: Once Moorgard comes forth and tells us that we were supposed to be the all powerful, end all, mean machines that every Tom, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], and Jane say we are supposed to be, i'll go ahead and eat my words. But this does not lead away from the fact that aside from damage we are a VERY capable class. So you want to hear it form Moorgard himself then? There have been questions recently about where wizards and warlocks are intended to fit in terms of damage output, as some players are concerned that these classes aren't fulfilling their role in this regard. I thought I'd address some of these questions in a general way, with the understanding that specific answers will have to wait until we have evaluated the damage output of all classes. This post does not promise any timeframe for when changes may occur. Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly. Can you honestly sit there and say that wizards and warlocks are doing roughly equivalent damage on raid mobs? Wizards are not only complaining over the fact that warlocks are outdamaging us, but also because nearly every single other class in the game can as well in raid situations. Raid mob resistances are borked. If you think that they are intended to be that way I will point you towards a change made to melee mob resistances a little while ago. Some raid mobs were completely immune to scout damage and they were unable to fulfill their DPS role in raids. Now scouts are THE utility class yet SOE moved to change raid mob resistances so that they could do DPS on raids. Sure wizards have mana feeding ability so we are not completely useless on raids, but that is not our role it is just utility. Our role is primarily DPS and we cannot fulfill that in raids. SOE cannot justify leaving raid mobs resistances as they are, especially given the change they made to melee resistances. No matter what spell changes they give us in the upcoming combat revamp, if raid mob resistances are not looked at, we will still be in the same boat we are in now! Everytime you post that we are fine, there isn't anything wrong with the class, you make it harder for us to get any fixes because it just confuses things by providing contradictory information. __________________

06-23-2005, 06:52 AM	#23
Asterra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	SalBluee wrote: Well... dont get down on what people will tell you about our uses in raids, because the good of us there far outweighs the bad. We ARE effective damage dealers in every raid we go to Hmm. Look, I can appreciate the desire to maintain a positive outlook on matters, but the above really does cross the threshold into "dodgy misinformation", if I may euphemize. I'm not going to go so far as to question whether or not you've actually attended garden variety raids like Orcishwastes Caverns, Shattered Stillness (Firemyst), Meeting of the Minds, etc., but it simply isn't possible to say, with both authority and a straight face, that Wizards provide good damage on such raids. There are alot of people that just believe we should be the end all in damage dealers, and sadly, that is not the case, nor is it a necessity. Perhaps Moorgard should never have admitted that Sorcerers are supposed to be at the top of the DPS charts. The incompatibility between that admission (which, I should stress, is in agreement with the general perception of those who picked the class) and the reality that people have been stuck with for the game's entire history, is stark. I don't at all think it is unusual or a matter of incredulity that people feel Wizards should be the kings of DPS. It would be a far greater curiosity if Wizards were currently the DPS champs they're supposed to be and people started lobbying for better manadumping capabilities and longer stuns.

06-23-2005, 12:00 PM	#24
ailees Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toulouse (France) Posts: 553	I read Salblue's post, then Onebadallien's answer with : "So do the rest of us wizzy's a favor and shut your pie hole, your in the far minority when it comes to thinking what a wizzy should and shouldnt be" I cannot understand that she should not say what she thinks just because you think she's in a FAR MINORITY. I don't see why she should not say it. Or do you think that having the majority gives you all rights ? BTW, I totally agree with Salblue, I'm happy with my wizz, as she is. Yesterday in a raid, raid leader told me "take care of X and Y, they must have power or we will wipe" ; I was very happy being useful. Of course as a player, I'm much more a teamer than anything else. I don't like soloing, and I don't care if I am not in the top 10 damagers of the server. I don't' see why a player allows himself to forbid us to speak (or type). __________________

06-23-2005, 03:12 PM	#25
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	There have been questions recently about where wizards and warlocks are intended to fit in terms of damage output, as some players are concerned that these classes aren't fulfilling their role in this regard. I thought I'd address some of these questions in a general way, with the understanding that specific answers will have to wait until we have evaluated the damage output of all classes. This post does not promise any timeframe for when changes may occur. Generally speaking, wizards and warlocks are intended to have the highest overall damage output, with the two subclasses being roughly equivalent to one another. If wizards and warlocks are not achieving that level of damage output now (and we agree there are cases that they are not), we will be adjusting class balance accordingly. Thats all well and good, but it still doesnt say raid mobs, and his statement can be taken a number of ways. Highest damage output over time, highest damage output via single nuke, highest damage output through single encounter, highest damage output in heroic encounter... highest damage output in a raid situation. Let him come forward and say that Wizards are supposed to outdamage everyone in every situation. That's not going to happen. And this statement by Moorgard was not made in direct relation to our abilities in raids. Most likely he was making a general comment in regards to small group setting. And if you've bothered to read any of my other posts, I've ALWAYS said that it is raid mob resistances that need to be re-adjusted, and not the Wizard's spell lineup. I was never against that in the first place, but I guess in everyone's effort to nay-say me that was overlooked. Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with Wizards besides a broken Protoflame, spell cost totals, and EPIC resistances. Everytime you post that we are fine, there isn't anything wrong with the class, you make it harder for us to get any fixes because it just confuses things by providing contradictory information. Allright, but that neglects the fact that some of us still do enjoy how we play our wizards at this time right now. Just because someone labels me as the "minority" doesnt lead away from the fact that I can still post my feelings about the class, and about the direction we have been following. IMO, besides 3 things, we ARE fine. We are fulfilling what we were meant to do, and I knew what our role was going to be ever since I researched the change from Sorceror to either Wizard or Warlock way back in December. I still have a printout sitting here on my desk as a matter of fact that details spells for each class, and how they lined up to each other in the progression to lvl 50. I see our Depart... and yep... I see our Power Transfers. They've been there from the very beginning.

06-23-2005, 04:35 PM	#26
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	nothing else to say, do the same instances everyday and today MM is really different (u can tell why if u try). Just if u going to fix somthings so we can't solo this stuff make sure we have other stuff to do like be useful in the raid (not just powerpump and resists), maybe so we can do cold nuke dmg?. Change the raid mob reisists. The above paragraph is the OP's message. All he is asking for is a change to raid resists, yet you respond with a post on warlock damage and how wizards aren't much different and we should just suck it up and stop complaining. That is why people are perhaps missing your other posts in support of changing raid mob resistances. Once you get to level 50 there is nothing much left to do except raid, so for a wizard the current endgame is not something to look forward to. It's a pretty big class breaking issue for me anyway that raid mob resistances make my character pretty much useless for anything but manafeeding. In fact it's such a big issue that I don't really play my wizzy much anymore. I honestly have more fun levelling my alt. I am giving SOE time to fix things with the big combat revamp, but if after the changes wizards and casters in general still continue to be second class to melee, I will be taking my money elsewhere. __________________

06-23-2005, 04:59 PM	#27
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	The above paragraph is the OP's message. All he is asking for is a change to raid resists, yet you respond with a post on warlock damage and how wizards aren't much different and we should just suck it up and stop complaining. That is why people are perhaps missing your other posts in support of changing raid mob resistances. Once you get to level 50 there is nothing much left to do except raid, so for a wizard the current endgame is not something to look forward to. It's a pretty big class breaking issue for me anyway that raid mob resistances make my character pretty much useless for anything but manafeeding. In fact it's such a big issue that I don't really play my wizzy much anymore. I honestly have more fun levelling my alt. I am giving SOE time to fix things with the big combat revamp, but if after the changes wizards and casters in general still continue to be second class to melee, I will be taking my money elsewhere. I never said suck it up and stop complaining. I said: Just hang in there guys. The change is not breaking the game for us. We'll be alright. This is only a change in the solo game that we were not supposed to be successful in in the first place. Just hang in there. I feel that was a pretty positive statement on my part. I do truly believe that we just need to hang in there and wait and see what happens with the spell revamp that everyone is talking about. I'm sure alot of issues that we have brought up both in the Wizarding forums and in other forums will be addressed. I'm sorry... I should have quoted from the PM I received about this thread. That's why there was mention of the Wizard/Warlock issue. I had a question directed at me that read: If you see the new thread that got created, the OP says that all we need is raid resistnances dropped so that we can do damage again with a ful set of spells in the form of nukes. What is saying now that a group will pick me over a warlock? I know what you'll say, and that would be that we are the equal blah blah blah, but you're dead wrong in every respect of this game and you should shut up you know nothing idiot. Dont bother replying or posting [Removed for Content]. I didnt feel that posting that message would be helpful to this post, and would only cause for more hate. But that is why I mentioned Warlock vs Wizard grouping only briefly. I had it in mind when I was typing the post, and I think instead of giving into a flame fest with the above posted person via PMs I tried to make light of it through a valid and non-inflammatory message. Listen... I dont want to be the hated one here, but there are different points of view on the class. In my situation, I still think that we are a very good and legitimate class that has all the capabilities they need save for a few EPIC raid resists, power consumption, and a broken Protoflame. If you dont agree with me thats fine, I can respect that some people dont have the same views as myself. But I dont post to get flamed. My posting is derived from someone who likes to play Wizards as they are, and copes with what i've been given. If we get upgraded farther down the line, so be it. I'd be happy to get a spell boost because i'm a power hungry woman in the end, but I also dont see it as a justified improvement to put us so far out ahead of the pack when we are still a viable class in and of itself right now.

06-23-2005, 06:46 PM	#28
Asterra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	It's a little difficult to accept the idea that Wizards are currently an acceptably viable class when I play one and don't have any particular penchant for unjustified optimism. As a case in point, my guild recently recruited three Warlocks, but in its entire six month history has not recruited a single new Wizard, and this is due to very down-to-earth facts about the viability of Wizards - facts which have everything to do with role fulfillment and nothing to do with hope for the future, particularly not with half a year of relative pointlessness.

06-23-2005, 07:00 PM	#29
SalBlu Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 439	Well... I'm sorry for that. I think it is a mistake on your guild's part to only justify recruiting people in relation to their damage dealing abilities. I know that last night, when my guild and I fought Darathar, my 1000+ points of fire resist were a welcome addition to where I was. Between myself and the Warden in my group, we had buffed for about 2500 fire resist, topping our main tank off at about 7000 fire resist. We effectively shrugged off Darathar's breath attack having an average resistance of about 6300 fire resist each. Heh... we didnt win though. It was our first time fighting Darathar, and we didnt have the first clue as to how to go about defeating him. Tried many different strategies, but the best we could do was get him down to 79%. We're trying to formulate a new plan now as to how to get him down. But anyway... its too bad your guild is not more appreciative of Wizards. I know my guild has more Wizards than Warlocks. I think we have 6 Wizards, and only 2 Warlocks. And we only really have myself and one or two of the other Wizards in raids. The Warlocks dont tend to join us for some reason.

06-24-2005, 06:00 PM	#30
Yaotzi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	darathar does not equal daily raid zones, wizards do not fill their class role, hell for the all instances (just about) wizards are the most useless and all other classes (except rangers..haha jk guys =P) would be more beneficial to the group. now ive checked out your guild a little saloma and honestly i dont think you have the right to say "oh wizards aren't so bad" when you do 1 zone 3 times a week, trying doing 5 instances,plus the other zones with lockout timers every day and tell me how you feel about wizards in 3-4weeks of no dps and constanst feeding to feel useful. edited because i cant type Message Edited by Yaotzin! on 06-24-2005 07:02 AM __________________