Level 50 Paladin... am i best just saving myself the trouble and betraying to SK?

demonevs · 11-09-2006, 03:33 PM

Hi ive returned to play and just getting to grips with the game again, but all i see is massive negativity for the paladin, especially at endgame.

So really, am i just best selling up my appartment in QH and betraying (back as it so happens) to freeport and becoming an SK?

Then when ive done my 20 levels i have more chance of raiding?

Any thoughts or experiences would be great

Vathranen · 11-09-2006, 04:19 PM

I would wait until EoF goes live at least, then probably wait a month for the dust to settle. If you're only 50 keep at it for a while - you won't get your end-game stuff till 65ish, so anything you get for now you'll be replacing whether you stay a Paladin or switch. The major complaining going on is about the Paladin's role as a Raid Main Tank. That won't be you for *quite* some time. I betrayed to a shadowknight at 55 and I love it, but I had already played a Paladin to 69 on the PvP server and was ready for a change. I found out shortly after that Shadowknights weren't needed on raids - we served no purpose. So I get to go if there's a spot and *nobody* else wants to go. However, looks like Shadowknights are getting some love in the AA tree. Will it make us raid tanks? Highly doubtful. But it is a slap in the face to the Paladin who has been trying to raid tank forever and begging for some love.Basically there's nothing wrong with Paladins for normal grouping or even raiding really, but you'll be a "babysitter" (as it was so eloquently called in another thread) to the fodder classes in group 4. But hey at least you aren't a fodder class in group 4. That's a depressing position, let me tell you. If you want a solid raid main tank go berserker or guardian. With the new AA lines that definition seems to be set into stone.

Message Edited by Vathranen on 11-09-2006 03:21 AM

demonevs · 11-09-2006, 04:42 PM

Thanks for the reply, its really appreciated.

At least i know i can stick with the paladin for a while yet at least which saves me a headache for a short while at least.

I just didnt want to get to 60+ and find all the money id spent on spell for the last 10 levels (which cumulatively is probably a lot more than when it cost 1-50) and id have to betray and start again.

I'll stay paladin for the moment then and see how it goes SMILEY

CycoDelic · 11-09-2006, 10:03 PM

demonevs wrote:

Hi ive returned to play and just getting to grips with the game again, but all i see is massive negativity for the paladin, especially at endgame.

So really, am i just best selling up my appartment in QH and betraying (back as it so happens) to freeport and becoming an SK?

Then when ive done my 20 levels i have more chance of raiding?

Any thoughts or experiences would be great

Get out while ya can!

Just kidding mate :p Do give it some time and see how it levels off...

kellan123 · 11-09-2006, 10:39 PM

I've been 70 for a while, T7 is now on farm status for my raiding guild.I thought about doing this as well, thinking it has to be better as an SK. Honestly though, I don't see it there either. I think it's just that Crusaders are confused about their roles and most of them would have been happier rolling Guardians or Berserkers.What I don't get is, I am mostly fully fabled and when I was spec'd for STAM and WIS, I could tank for any group but not hard mobs in raids...in fact I couldn't hold aggro in raids because Amends was often borked by any one of a dozen possibilities.I decided it best to respec for DPS so I switched out some gear, respec'd to STR and INT, and got my STR to 560 self buffed and INT is around 350. I now do about 700dps on single and 1200+ on a fast AE fight. (with Consecrate)Thing is...our MT, a Guardian, is right up there with me at ~700-800dps every fight. Now that gives me cause for concern where class balance issues are brought to light. I have no problem with a Guardian being the best class in the game to take damage, bar none...but to pump out that dps as well shows me that I'm the one that's lacking.Berz/Guard: *Hold better aggro (even if I put amends on a warlock, on an AE fight, and mash ALL taunt keys -- including rescue -- and damage, I can't pull off them *Do similar or more DPS than a Crusader (our guild Berzerker pushes 1200+ on almost all fights, regardless) *Tank (take damage) betterPaladins: *Heal pretty darn good *Can RezI've come to change the way I look at my paladin. I am now a battle priest and have accepted that. I am going to devote my new AA to the heal line and, when not raiding, try to duo/group with as much dps as possible. I make a great addition to a wandering mage or Fury. I will keep my dmg focused AA and gear on or risk ending up being a gimped Templar.During raids, I'll be the first to rez anyone near the mob, I'll group heal when an AE hits, I'll ward the MT before the pull and through the entire fight, I'll protect a sorceror with Amends, and I'll TRY to offtank or MT if the MT goes down. That's about it.----As far as SKs go, I never really thought about them since a Shadowknight just doesn't fit my personality mold. *They look really cool when fully decked out and sitting on a Nightmare *If their pets were static and not dumbfire, they'd be a lot more fun to play (for me) *Their harm touch isn't quite as nifty as it was in eq1, since about 6 other classes get a more damaging ability (decap, ice nova, etc..) *They tank about the same as crusaders I think, although I've tried to pull aggro off them and it doesn't work *I've heard of them soloing things that I know I can't *As a full DPS paladin, I see them in the same area as me on parsesI think since you're stuck as a Crusader, either one is viable. Just don't expect to be the best MT or the best DPS, because we're not.

Message Edited by kellan123 on 11-09-2006 12:13 PM

Rast · 11-09-2006, 11:47 PM

I prefer Paladin to SK (my main is a lvl 54 Teir'dal Paladin) myself. But then I rarely raid so that isn't as big an issue for me (and I'm bringing up a templar for raiding purposes anyways). Our guardian is on a different weekday schedule than most of us so I find myself group tank a good deal now (I'm the senior plate tank in the guild as our others have moved on to more raid active organizations or left the game completely) and having spent a lot of my toons life as OT, it has been a hard transitition, though I am improving (slowly)

Vathranen · 11-10-2006, 01:01 AM

I think it's just a disgust thing for many paladins. They've been asking for raid tank capabilities for a long time now but every expansion pushes them further toward the healer side of the class. When the game first started the Paladin was an awesome class, very much a front line fighter. Warriors got mitigation buffs, Paladin got a ward and we called it good. We were even able to put Redemption (Amends) on everybody in the party. Aggro was never an issue. Then LU13 hit and the class was made into about 30% Guardian, 40% Mystic, and 20% Wizard combo. I was never as excited to play my class after that. I didn't want a class that was a hybrid of a bunch of other classes. I wanted the holy warrior that Paladin used to be.I think this EoF fiasco is sort of like the last straw for many Paladins who wanted to see something finally given to them, only to get slapped in the face instead. The excitement / interest in the class is gone. It's not at all glamorous to be filler in a raid.I mean, really, 150 hitpoints on one ability and 15% increase to Faithful Swing on another? That's just absurd.I think the reason you're seeing all this interest in the Shadowknight class is because it has a direction now. When the game started Shadowknights were kind of ignored as most of their abilities didn't work and they were just a watered down evil Paladin. After many updates they finally have a clear intent and with the EoF AA tree they're getting some exciting / interesting abilities. Paladins see that and it makes their angst even worse.

11-09-2006, 10:03 PM	#4
CycoDelic Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 113	demonevs wrote: Hi ive returned to play and just getting to grips with the game again, but all i see is massive negativity for the paladin, especially at endgame. So really, am i just best selling up my appartment in QH and betraying (back as it so happens) to freeport and becoming an SK? Then when ive done my 20 levels i have more chance of raiding? Any thoughts or experiences would be great Get out while ya can! Just kidding mate :p Do give it some time and see how it levels off... __________________ Sumgee 90 Paladin

11-09-2006, 10:39 PM	#5
kellan123 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 253	I've been 70 for a while, T7 is now on farm status for my raiding guild.I thought about doing this as well, thinking it has to be better as an SK. Honestly though, I don't see it there either. I think it's just that Crusaders are confused about their roles and most of them would have been happier rolling Guardians or Berserkers.What I don't get is, I am mostly fully fabled and when I was spec'd for STAM and WIS, I could tank for any group but not hard mobs in raids...in fact I couldn't hold aggro in raids because Amends was often borked by any one of a dozen possibilities.I decided it best to respec for DPS so I switched out some gear, respec'd to STR and INT, and got my STR to 560 self buffed and INT is around 350. I now do about 700dps on single and 1200+ on a fast AE fight. (with Consecrate)Thing is...our MT, a Guardian, is right up there with me at ~700-800dps every fight. Now that gives me cause for concern where class balance issues are brought to light. I have no problem with a Guardian being the best class in the game to take damage, bar none...but to pump out that dps as well shows me that I'm the one that's lacking.Berz/Guard: Hold better aggro (even if I put amends on a warlock, on an AE fight, and mash ALL taunt keys -- including rescue -- and damage, I can't pull off them Do similar or more DPS than a Crusader (our guild Berzerker pushes 1200+ on almost all fights, regardless) Tank (take damage) betterPaladins: Heal pretty darn good Can RezI've come to change the way I look at my paladin. I am now a battle priest and have accepted that. I am going to devote my new AA to the heal line and, when not raiding, try to duo/group with as much dps as possible. I make a great addition to a wandering mage or Fury. I will keep my dmg focused AA and gear on or risk ending up being a gimped Templar.During raids, I'll be the first to rez anyone near the mob, I'll group heal when an AE hits, I'll ward the MT before the pull and through the entire fight, I'll protect a sorceror with Amends, and I'll TRY to offtank or MT if the MT goes down. That's about it.----As far as SKs go, I never really thought about them since a Shadowknight just doesn't fit my personality mold. They look really cool when fully decked out and sitting on a Nightmare If their pets were static and not dumbfire, they'd be a lot more fun to play (for me) Their harm touch isn't quite as nifty as it was in eq1, since about 6 other classes get a more damaging ability (decap, ice nova, etc..) They tank about the same as crusaders I think, although I've tried to pull aggro off them and it doesn't work I've heard of them soloing things that I know I can't As a full DPS paladin, I see them in the same area as me on parsesI think since you're stuck as a Crusader, either one is viable. Just don't expect to be the best MT or the best DPS, because we're not. Message Edited by kellan123 on 11-09-2006 12:13 PM __________________ "What man is a man who does not make the world better?"* -Balian of Ibelin

11-09-2006, 11:47 PM	#6
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	I prefer Paladin to SK (my main is a lvl 54 Teir'dal Paladin) myself. But then I rarely raid so that isn't as big an issue for me (and I'm bringing up a templar for raiding purposes anyways). Our guardian is on a different weekday schedule than most of us so I find myself group tank a good deal now (I'm the senior plate tank in the guild as our others have moved on to more raid active organizations or left the game completely) and having spent a lot of my toons life as OT, it has been a hard transitition, though I am improving (slowly) __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

11-09-2006, 03:33 PM	#1
demonevs Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	Hi ive returned to play and just getting to grips with the game again, but all i see is massive negativity for the paladin, especially at endgame. So really, am i just best selling up my appartment in QH and betraying (back as it so happens) to freeport and becoming an SK? Then when ive done my 20 levels i have more chance of raiding? Any thoughts or experiences would be great

11-09-2006, 04:19 PM	#2
Vathranen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 110	I would wait until EoF goes live at least, then probably wait a month for the dust to settle. If you're only 50 keep at it for a while - you won't get your end-game stuff till 65ish, so anything you get for now you'll be replacing whether you stay a Paladin or switch. The major complaining going on is about the Paladin's role as a Raid Main Tank. That won't be you for quite some time. I betrayed to a shadowknight at 55 and I love it, but I had already played a Paladin to 69 on the PvP server and was ready for a change. I found out shortly after that Shadowknights weren't needed on raids - we served no purpose. So I get to go if there's a spot and nobody else wants to go. However, looks like Shadowknights are getting some love in the AA tree. Will it make us raid tanks? Highly doubtful. But it is a slap in the face to the Paladin who has been trying to raid tank forever and begging for some love.Basically there's nothing wrong with Paladins for normal grouping or even raiding really, but you'll be a "babysitter" (as it was so eloquently called in another thread) to the fodder classes in group 4. But hey at least you aren't a fodder class in group 4. That's a depressing position, let me tell you. If you want a solid raid main tank go berserker or guardian. With the new AA lines that definition seems to be set into stone. Message Edited by Vathranen on 11-09-2006 03:21 AM

11-09-2006, 04:42 PM	#3
demonevs Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	Thanks for the reply, its really appreciated. At least i know i can stick with the paladin for a while yet at least which saves me a headache for a short while at least. I just didnt want to get to 60+ and find all the money id spent on spell for the last 10 levels (which cumulatively is probably a lot more than when it cost 1-50) and id have to betray and start again. I'll stay paladin for the moment then and see how it goes

11-10-2006, 01:01 AM	#7
Vathranen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 110	I think it's just a disgust thing for many paladins. They've been asking for raid tank capabilities for a long time now but every expansion pushes them further toward the healer side of the class. When the game first started the Paladin was an awesome class, very much a front line fighter. Warriors got mitigation buffs, Paladin got a ward and we called it good. We were even able to put Redemption (Amends) on everybody in the party. Aggro was never an issue. Then LU13 hit and the class was made into about 30% Guardian, 40% Mystic, and 20% Wizard combo. I was never as excited to play my class after that. I didn't want a class that was a hybrid of a bunch of other classes. I wanted the holy warrior that Paladin used to be.I think this EoF fiasco is sort of like the last straw for many Paladins who wanted to see something finally given to them, only to get slapped in the face instead. The excitement / interest in the class is gone. It's not at all glamorous to be filler in a raid.I mean, really, 150 hitpoints on one ability and 15% increase to Faithful Swing on another? That's just absurd.I think the reason you're seeing all this interest in the Shadowknight class is because it has a direction now. When the game started Shadowknights were kind of ignored as most of their abilities didn't work and they were just a watered down evil Paladin. After many updates they finally have a clear intent and with the EoF AA tree they're getting some exciting / interesting abilities. Paladins see that and it makes their angst even worse.