Can't hit a homerun if ya don't swing the bat

[CycoDelic]

Can we please, pretty please, with sugar on top, and a cherry... and um... Oreos and milk on the side... get the things fixed that are supposed to make us work the way you (Sony) say we should work? Im not gonna bellyache about what we dont have that some feel we should or should not have, lets start simple and get the things you (Sony) say we should have working properly (or reasonably). I'll wash your car every weekend for a month (as long as you dont show up during raidtime). Heck, acknowledge these are known issues and are being worked on and I'll provide 3 mos free lawncare service for any who own a lawn, and if you dont own a lawn, a $25.00 gift certificate to the local subpar chain restaurant of your choosing.

 

Amends, Fearless, Divine Aura, Divine Favor (ok, working as intended, but c'mon....)

 

 

anyone else feel free to add... but yer taking rinse duty on weekends if this does miraculously manage a reply!

[Zo]

The main problem with this forum is that people believe the whining without testing it themselves.- Divine Aura works off CURRENT HPs, NOT TOTAL - it's not broken- The Fear immunity probably isn't broken. It took one guy, who probably forgot to cast the buff, to make a post and cause drama. The rest of the replies in the thread are from Pallies that are NOT getting feared.- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.Rely on yourselves to know your class, ffs.

[Rarlin]

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Zo wrote:The main problem with this forum is that people believe the whining without testing it themselves.- Divine Aura works off CURRENT HPs, NOT TOTAL - it's not brokenOK- The Fear immunity probably isn't broken. It took one guy, who probably forgot to cast the buff, to make a post and cause drama. The rest of the replies in the thread are from Pallies that are NOT getting feared.The fear immunity was broken (can't tell if it still is because I respeced long ago).  When I had this up and was CONTINUALLY feared (not mezzed, charmed, hacked and had someone playing my computer for 5-15 seconds), I too posted that it was broken...- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.Agreed (that it's buggy).  But there is nothing more frustrating than doing a MT situation for a special mob and someone with a hate transfer drops in your group and while reapplying buffs, now wipes your Amends because of a "Proper Order" to cast spells.  We DO have a workaround, but assuming the player base will correctly figure out when/how to apply buffs because of a bug is not an acceptable fix.Rely on yourselves to know your class, ffs.

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[Shaidown]

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Rarlin wrote:

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- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.
Agreed (that it's buggy).  But there is nothing more frustrating than doing a MT situation for a special mob and someone with a hate transfer drops in your group and while reapplying buffs, now wipes your Amends because of a "Proper Order" to cast spells.  We DO have a workaround, but assuming the player base will correctly figure out when/how to apply buffs because of a bug is not an acceptable fix.

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If you have amends on someone in your group, then a wizzie gets an invite and puts their anomalism on you, as long as the pally doesnt NOW put amends on the wizzie, it's no problem, just as if you invite a scout and they put their hate transfer on you.  

 

not only that...but if you cant tell what has just been buffed on you, or dont pay attention when you rebuff...that's your own fault....

 

There isnt a proper order....to place buffs.   If you have a wizzie that puts their anomalism on you, put amends on someone else.....like the healer or some other DPS

 

Amends isnt buggy in this respect at all. 

 

this issue isnt a buff order issue, this is a group not communicating issue

[Boethius_Permafrost]

Divine aura working on current HP instead of max HP is, in my opinion, a bug.  (Or a horrible design decision, not that there's much difference between the two.)

[Zaloorb]

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Zo wrote:The main problem with this forum is that people believe the whining without testing it themselves.- Divine Aura works off CURRENT HPs, NOT TOTAL - it's not broken- The Fear immunity probably isn't broken. It took one guy, who probably forgot to cast the buff, to make a post and cause drama. The rest of the replies in the thread are from Pallies that are NOT getting feared.- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.Rely on yourselves to know your class, ffs.

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You need to read my log....http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=17817I got hit 4 times with DA up and not one of them was more than 50% my TOTAL hp or my MAX hp. Think before you post.

[Rarlin]

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Shaidown wrote:

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Rarlin wrote:

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- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.Agreed (that it's buggy).  But there is nothing more frustrating than doing a MT situation for a special mob and someone with a hate transfer drops in your group and while reapplying buffs, now wipes your Amends because of a "Proper Order" to cast spells.  We DO have a workaround, but assuming the player base will correctly figure out when/how to apply buffs because of a bug is not an acceptable fix.

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If you have amends on someone in your group, then a wizzie gets an invite and puts their anomalism on you, as long as the pally doesnt NOW put amends on the wizzie, it's no problem, just as if you invite a scout and they put their hate transfer on you.  

 

not only that...but if you cant tell what has just been buffed on you, or dont pay attention when you rebuff...that's your own fault....

 

There isnt a proper order....to place buffs.   If you have a wizzie that puts their anomalism on you, put amends on someone else.....like the healer or some other DPS

 

Amends isnt buggy in this respect at all. 

 

this issue isnt a buff order issue, this is a group not communicating issue

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Interesting,So if I put my Amends on top of a hate transfer, it's bugged... just as I said.  This IS a buff order issue and you state so yourself with the following:"If you have amends on someone in your group, then a wizzie gets an invite and puts their anomalism on you, as long as the pally doesnt NOW put amends on the wizzie, it's no problem,"And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue.And as far as the rebuffing being my own fault... If people are dropping in a raid and you're trying to pull a fast recovery while orders are being stated through Vent, then most of us don't have the luxery of typing "Ok, did you put your transfer on me yet?, What about now?  Did you do it yet?  No, sorry, I put Amends on the Templar for hate because I was concerned about overwriting the Swashy/Assassin/Wizard.... aggro controls."  Amends is the Paladin's way to hold aggro, no other tank class has to depend on others (at least not in the same ways) for their aggro, so when our PRIMARY means of aggro managment is so fickle, it is frustrating. 

[Shaidown]

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Rarlin wrote:

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Shaidown wrote:

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Rarlin wrote:

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- Amends has always been buggy with other hate transfers. Know how Amends works, tell your raid/group how Amends works and cast it last.
Agreed (that it's buggy).  But there is nothing more frustrating than doing a MT situation for a special mob and someone with a hate transfer drops in your group and while reapplying buffs, now wipes your Amends because of a "Proper Order" to cast spells.  We DO have a workaround, but assuming the player base will correctly figure out when/how to apply buffs because of a bug is not an acceptable fix.

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If you have amends on someone in your group, then a wizzie gets an invite and puts their anomalism on you, as long as the pally doesnt NOW put amends on the wizzie, it's no problem, just as if you invite a scout and they put their hate transfer on you.  

 

not only that...but if you cant tell what has just been buffed on you, or dont pay attention when you rebuff...that's your own fault....

 

There isnt a proper order....to place buffs.   If you have a wizzie that puts their anomalism on you, put amends on someone else.....like the healer or some other DPS

 

Amends isnt buggy in this respect at all. 

 

this issue isnt a buff order issue, this is a group not communicating issue

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Interesting,
So if I put my Amends on top of a hate transfer, it's bugged... just as I said.  This IS a buff order issue and you state so yourself with the following:

"If you have amends on someone in your group, then a wizzie gets an invite and puts their anomalism on you, as long as the pally doesnt NOW put amends on the wizzie, it's no problem,"

And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue.

And as far as the rebuffing being my own fault... If people are dropping in a raid and you're trying to pull a fast recovery while orders are being stated through Vent, then most of us don't have the luxery of typing "Ok, did you put your transfer on me yet?, What about now?  Did you do it yet?  No, sorry, I put Amends on the Templar for hate because I was concerned about overwriting the Swashy/Assassin/Wizard.... aggro controls." 

Amends is the Paladin's way to hold aggro, no other tank class has to depend on others (at least not in the same ways) for their aggro, so when our PRIMARY means of aggro managment is so fickle, it is frustrating. 

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amends isnt supposed to work with ANY sort of hate transfer

 

how is the fact that it doesnt work with the new wizard hate transfer bugged?

 

having a wizard AND a paladin, maybe I think about these buffs and how they work more.......

 

The entire point is this........if you have a group, and you have your amends on the healer in your group, because one scout has their hate transfer on you, and the other scout in your group has their hate transfer on you, and then you invite another scout...you would expect them to put their hate transfer on you too.....

 

Now...you KNOW if you put amends on that scout.....it's not going to work...you KNOW this.....so why is it so difficult to understand that is how the new wizard hate transfer works?

and if you decide to put amends on one of the scouts, arent you going to TELL someone?  because you KNOW it isnt going to work unless that scout removes his transfer

 

lets try a metaphor here

 

scout hate transfer + paladin amends = amends not working

 

so you know that hate transfer + amends = amends not working

 

wizard hate transfer + amends = ??????????   WHY IS THAT SO CONFUSING?????!!!!

 

if 2+3=5

I think you could figure out what 3+2=

 

not only that,

 

you say "And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue."

 

yes....if you wanna go change who amends is on....yes....you need to talk about it

 

just because you didnt read the update notes on wizards doesnt mean that something is bugged

[Rarlin]

Shaidown wrote:

amends isnt supposed to work with ANY sort of hate transfer

 

how is the fact that it doesnt work with the new wizard hate transfer bugged?The only thing I really want to know here is where I stated that I thought it should work with Wizard only.  I'm not confused why it doesn't work with every class except for Wizard, I'm confused why it doesn't work with ANY class...

 

having a wizard AND a paladin, maybe I think about these buffs and how they work more.......I could care less if you play every class in the game.  That doesn't change the fact that I don't like how the structure of Amends is.

 

The entire point is this........if you have a group, and you have your amends on the healer in your group, because one scout has their hate transfer on you, and the other scout in your group has their hate transfer on you, and then you invite another scout...you would expect them to put their hate transfer on you too.....Of course you probably already know that this too sometimes Amends not to work...

 

Now...you KNOW if you put amends on that scout.....it's not going to work...you KNOW this.....so why is it so difficult to understand that is how the new wizard hate transfer works?Searches previous posts where I have indicated that everything is wonderful with Amends being buggy on Scouts and now I'm shocked that a buggy hate transfer spell has now hit the limit because it applies to a Wizard... nope... can't find it.

and if you decide to put amends on one of the scouts, arent you going to TELL someone?  because you KNOW it isnt going to work unless that scout removes his transfer

Um... yes, and that's my point.  

lets try a metaphor hereI love these and I'm so glad I made it through 8th grade english to know what a Metaphor is.

 

scout hate transfer + paladin amends = amends not workingCheck... Hey wait, this isn't a Metaphor!

 

so you know that hate transfer + amends = amends not workingYep, I sure do. :smileyhappy:

 

wizard hate transfer + amends = ??????????   WHY IS THAT SO CONFUSING?????!!!!I give up... why?

 

if 2+3=5

I think you could figure out what 3+2=Oh boy, math!  Let me try one that demonstrates my point...  41% + 2% = 43% (Not 0%).  Maybe we could team up and do some instense math postings to get the point across that Amends is bugged...

 

not only that,

 

you say "And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue."

 

yes....if you wanna go change who amends is on....yes....you need to talk about itOnce again, this is my point.  If I'm a Bezerker I don't have to let people know that I'm putting up things that give me hate, same thing with EVERY OTHER CLASS.

 

just because you didnt read the update notes on wizards doesnt mean that something is buggedWhy does the update notes on a Wizard have anything to do with Amends being bugged?  I have no idea where you got the idea that I thought that Amends should be buggy with every class but a Wizard, but that is NOT what I think.  Please review my math section for further details...:smileywink:

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[Shaidown]

lets try again...

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Rarlin wrote:
Shaidown wrote:

amends isnt supposed to work with ANY sort of hate transfer

 

how is the fact that it doesnt work with the new wizard hate transfer bugged?
The only thing I really want to know here is where I stated that I thought it should work with Wizard only.  I'm not confused why it doesn't work with every class except for Wizard, I'm confused why it doesn't work with ANY class...

why shoudl amends work with anyones hate transfer?  that would be over powering....if it did, you could absorb over 80% of a scouts generated hate....that's beyond necessary and just selfish

 

having a wizard AND a paladin, maybe I think about these buffs and how they work more.......
I could care less if you play every class in the game.  That doesn't change the fact that I don't like how the structure of Amends is.

I'd like you to see how I have a different perspective from you, Im looking at this as a wizard first, pally 2nd

 

The entire point is this........if you have a group, and you have your amends on the healer in your group, because one scout has their hate transfer on you, and the other scout in your group has their hate transfer on you, and then you invite another scout...you would expect them to put their hate transfer on you too.....
Of course you probably already know that this too sometimes Amends not to work...

If you have a group where 2 of the scouts have their hate transfer on you, and you invite another scout, and they put their hate transfer on you as well....how would you ever know that your amends isnt working?  your getting so much hate from the scouts, you would barely need to taunt...so 1: how do you know its bugged 2: you completely missed the point apparently

 

Now...you KNOW if you put amends on that scout.....it's not going to work...you KNOW this.....so why is it so difficult to understand that is how the new wizard hate transfer works?
Searches previous posts where I have indicated that everything is wonderful with Amends being buggy on Scouts and now I'm shocked that a buggy hate transfer spell has now hit the limit because it applies to a Wizard... nope... can't find it.

amends isnt buggy with scouts, it is well known that amends wont work if you put it on a scout that has their hate transfer on you....if there is a scout in the group, you put amends on someone else.....the only difference is that now you dont put amends on the sorceror as well

and if you decide to put amends on one of the scouts, arent you going to TELL someone?  because you KNOW it isnt going to work unless that scout removes his transfer

Um... yes, and that's my point.  

again...I cant really see a point in putting amends on a scout

lets try a metaphor here
I love these and I'm so glad I made it through 8th grade english to know what a Metaphor is.

Thanks!  I like metaphors....it's a good word to...like metaframe, and metadata and all that

 

scout hate transfer + paladin amends = amends not working
Check... Hey wait, this isn't a Metaphor!

*points down to the math portion*

 

so you know that hate transfer + amends = amends not working
Yep, I sure do. :smileyhappy:

 

wizard hate transfer + amends = ??????????   WHY IS THAT SO CONFUSING?????!!!!
I give up... why?

Same reason it doest work for scouts

 

if 2+3=5

I think you could figure out what 3+2=
Oh boy, math!  Let me try one that demonstrates my point...  41% + 2% = 43% (Not 0%).  Maybe we could team up and do some instense math postings to get the point across that Amends is bugged...

 

not only that,

 

you say "And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue."

 

yes....if you wanna go change who amends is on....yes....you need to talk about it
Once again, this is my point.  If I'm a Bezerker I don't have to let people know that I'm putting up things that give me hate, same thing with EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Berserkers dont have buffs that affect hate the way amends does....people need to talk about these sorts of things...this is why there are so many people in their 40+ lvls and dont know what other classes do

 

just because you didnt read the update notes on wizards doesnt mean that something is bugged
Why does the update notes on a Wizard have anything to do with Amends being bugged?  I have no idea where you got the idea that I thought that Amends should be buggy with every class but a Wizard, but that is NOT what I think.  Please review my math section for further details...:smileywink:

no....Im saying amends isnt buggy at all really.....at least...not when it comes to hate transfer classes

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[Rarlin]

Ok, let's keep this going because I like the Christmas tree look that this post has. :smileytongue:

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Shaidown wrote:

lets try again...

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Rarlin wrote:Shaidown wrote:

amends isnt supposed to work with ANY sort of hate transfer

 

how is the fact that it doesnt work with the new wizard hate transfer bugged?The only thing I really want to know here is where I stated that I thought it should work with Wizard only.  I'm not confused why it doesn't work with every class except for Wizard, I'm confused why it doesn't work with ANY class...

why shoudl amends work with anyones hate transfer?  that would be over powering....if it did, you could absorb over 80% of a scouts generated hate....that's beyond necessary and just selfishSorry, have to use a Yellow font here because it matches my armor...  I am honestly not aware of a scout class that contains a 40% hate transfer.  I would say this is no more selfish than a Warrior that is able to do T1 DPS (through the buckler AA line) and have their normal hate gain abilities.

 

having a wizard AND a paladin, maybe I think about these buffs and how they work more.......I could care less if you play every class in the game.  That doesn't change the fact that I don't like how the structure of Amends is.

I'd like you to see how I have a different perspective from you, Im looking at this as a wizard first, pally 2ndOk.

 

The entire point is this........if you have a group, and you have your amends on the healer in your group, because one scout has their hate transfer on you, and the other scout in your group has their hate transfer on you, and then you invite another scout...you would expect them to put their hate transfer on you too.....Of course you probably already know that this too sometimes causes Amends not to work...

If you have a group where 2 of the scouts have their hate transfer on you, and you invite another scout, and they put their hate transfer on you as well....how would you ever know that your amends isnt working?  your getting so much hate from the scouts, you would barely need to taunt...so 1: how do you know its bugged 2: you completely missed the point apparentlyI don't know how much experiance you have playing your Pally, but let me put it to you this way.  If I have a Warlock and an Assassin together, if I Amend the Warlock, I can lose aggro on long single-target encounters; if I put it on the Assassin, I can lose aggro on multiple mob encounters.  I understand that I can get a good amount of hate from scouts, but the argument of "I don't have to taunt" is totally invalid if you're playing with people who are doing their job properly.

 

Now...you KNOW if you put amends on that scout.....it's not going to work...you KNOW this.....so why is it so difficult to understand that is how the new wizard hate transfer works?Searches previous posts where I have indicated that everything is wonderful with Amends being buggy on Scouts and now I'm shocked that a buggy hate transfer spell has now hit the limit because it applies to a Wizard... nope... can't find it.

amends isnt buggy with scouts, it is well known that amends wont work if you put it on a scout that has their hate transfer on you....if there is a scout in the group, you put amends on someone else.....the only difference is that now you dont put amends on the sorceror as wellOk, we keep coming back to the Wizard, but I really could care less what class we're talking about.  The entire post had nothing to do with Wizards and everything to do with Amends.  That has been my entire point.

and if you decide to put amends on one of the scouts, arent you going to TELL someone?  because you KNOW it isnt going to work unless that scout removes his transfer

Um... yes, and that's my point.  

again...I cant really see a point in putting amends on a scoutI can see plenty of reasons to put Amends on a scout.

lets try a metaphor hereI love these and I'm so glad I made it through 8th grade english to know what a Metaphor is.

Thanks!  I like metaphors....it's a good word to...like metaframe, and metadata and all that

 

scout hate transfer + paladin amends = amends not workingCheck... Hey wait, this isn't a Metaphor!

*points down to the math portion*Ah... I see!

 

so you know that hate transfer + amends = amends not workingYep, I sure do. :smileyhappy:

 

wizard hate transfer + amends = ??????????   WHY IS THAT SO CONFUSING?????!!!!I give up... why?

Same reason it doest work for scoutsMan, and I thought it had something to do with the robe...

 

if 2+3=5

I think you could figure out what 3+2=Oh boy, math!  Let me try one that demonstrates my point...  41% + 2% = 43% (Not 0%).  Maybe we could team up and do some instense math postings to get the point across that Amends is bugged...Round #2 with Math.  So we have this issue where you don't think that Paladins should have BOTH hate gains (even though other classes get their hate gain + whatever is put on them).  That's fine by me really... How's about we hit a middle ground and say:41% + 2% = 41% (NOT 0%). 

 

not only that,

 

you say "And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue."

 

yes....if you wanna go change who amends is on....yes....you need to talk about itOnce again, this is my point.  If I'm a Bezerker I don't have to let people know that I'm putting up things that give me hate, same thing with EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Berserkers dont have buffs that affect hate the way amends does....people need to talk about these sorts of things...this is why there are so many people in their 40+ lvls and dont know what other classes doYou're absolutely correct, no other class has the Amends line like we do.

 

just because you didnt read the update notes on wizards doesnt mean that something is buggedWhy does the update notes on a Wizard have anything to do with Amends being bugged?  I have no idea where you got the idea that I thought that Amends should be buggy with every class but a Wizard, but that is NOT what I think.  Please review my math section for further details...:smileywink:

no....Im saying amends isnt buggy at all really.....at least...not when it comes to hate transfer classesLet me say it just one more time for giggles... 41% + 2% = 0% Maybe I didn't go to calc 4 in college, but I do see a tiny issue with the above math problem.  If you look really closely, you might be able to find the issue.  :smileyvery-happy:Footnote:Ok, I think we've had a fun 'bout but I honestly think I see where we disagree.  You believe that Amends should totally cancel out when another hate buff is cast, and I believe that if there is a fear about us being total aggro holders that the highest hate transfer should hold instead of being wiped to 0% (otherwise, just let it stack).

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[Monfar]

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Zo wrote:- The Fear immunity probably isn't broken. It took one guy, who probably forgot to cast the buff, to make a post and cause drama. The rest of the replies in the thread are from Pallies that are NOT getting feared.Rely on yourselves to know your class, ffs.

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I don't think it is broken but when it happened to me with essence of fear ,of course the first reaction is "omg is my skill up"... it was and I recast it to be sure ... and whata you know .. I get feared again ! Never had it happen in SoH or other places where mobs use fear but essence of fear got me one time since the instance opened up to the public.Untill I read the thread yesterday I though I was the only one who encountered this but 2 other paladins it has happened to.Funny thing is that we had a SK there too but he did not get feared .. wierd stuff.

[Matheos]

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Monfar wrote:

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Zo wrote:
- The Fear immunity probably isn't broken. It took one guy, who probably forgot to cast the buff, to make a post and cause drama. The rest of the replies in the thread are from Pallies that are NOT getting feared.


Rely on yourselves to know your class, ffs.

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I don't think it is broken but when it happened to me with essence of fear ,of course the first reaction is "omg is my skill up"... it was and I recast it to be sure ... and whata you know .. I get feared again !
Never had it happen in SoH or other places where mobs use fear but essence of fear got me one time since the instance opened up to the public.

Untill I read the thread yesterday I though I was the only one who encountered this but 2 other paladins it has happened to.

Funny thing is that we had a SK there too but he did not get feared .. wierd stuff.

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I just wanted to say that I have run the fear immunity AA line since I reached my 50AA's about 4 months ago now and have never personally been feared by any mob in game, raid or otherwise. I know that the buff is working correctly since whenever a mob tries to fear me the yellow "immune" floats very satisfyingly above my head. I can only report my experience but it seems fine to me.

[OrcSlayer96]

Hmm, i think the whole amends issue could have a easy fix but i doubt they will do this.  Change the blasted warlock/wizard HATETRANSFER to a HATE REDUCER.  Hate reducers have no problems with hate transfers, because the mechanics eliminate a percentage of hate on the caster not transfer to another player.  One of the problems with the wizard/warlock hate transfer is it is raid friend capable, unlike a friendly assassin or amends that is only allowed in group.  So lets say you have 3 tanks in a raid and 6 warlocks/wizards spread among all 4 groups.  Do you spend a few minutes explaining via raid chat who should tranfer to who for the almighty 3% max hate transfer and not screw up somebody else's transfers?   Seems like every other update one of our hate transfers gets bugged and it usually takes months for them to fix.  Anybody remember the fun time Sigil of Heriosm had with a amends target or how it liked to bug any scout transfers in the group when you use it?  Change the wizard/warlock hate transfer to hate reducer and the problem is solved, there is classes out there that have that ability already like rangers and brigands.

 

As far as Fear immunity goes, after live update 26 or so when they allowed for casters to cure fear whith their cures while being feared, or use the cure potions, that AA has lost it's luster for me.  There have been some bugs in zones like Halls of Seeing that bypassed the fear immunity but i believe they fixed that a ways back.

 

I am more concerned about the effects on warlocks and wizards if this doesnt get changed to a hate reduction instead of a hate transfer.  We have a warlock that if he opens up full throttle requires my master 1 amends on him, a adept 3 moderate hate reducer from one of our guardians plus the ~40% group hate reduction to mages/priests from one of our troubadours.   As it is currently he would need to toss this on either the group guardian or a very low hate generating class because we have other warlocks/wizards on the raid.  As we gear up our other warlocks and wizards i see the trend happening to them also, so now we play the musical buff thing with a measley non stacking 2-3% hate transfer?

[Shaidown]

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Rarlin wrote:

Ok, let's keep this going because I like the Christmas tree look that this post has. :smileytongue:

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Shaidown wrote:

lets try again...

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Rarlin wrote:
Shaidown wrote:

amends isnt supposed to work with ANY sort of hate transfer

 

how is the fact that it doesnt work with the new wizard hate transfer bugged?
The only thing I really want to know here is where I stated that I thought it should work with Wizard only.  I'm not confused why it doesn't work with every class except for Wizard, I'm confused why it doesn't work with ANY class...

why shoudl amends work with anyones hate transfer?  that would be over powering....if it did, you could absorb over 80% of a scouts generated hate....that's beyond necessary and just selfish
Sorry, have to use a Yellow font here because it matches my armor...  I am honestly not aware of a scout class that contains a 40% hate transfer.  I would say this is no more selfish than a Warrior that is able to do T1 DPS (through the buckler AA line) and have their normal hate gain abilities.

yeah...i couldnt remember the max scouts hate transfer

 

having a wizard AND a paladin, maybe I think about these buffs and how they work more.......
I could care less if you play every class in the game.  That doesn't change the fact that I don't like how the structure of Amends is.

I'd like you to see how I have a different perspective from you, Im looking at this as a wizard first, pally 2nd
Ok.

 

The entire point is this........if you have a group, and you have your amends on the healer in your group, because one scout has their hate transfer on you, and the other scout in your group has their hate transfer on you, and then you invite another scout...you would expect them to put their hate transfer on you too.....
Of course you probably already know that this too sometimes causes Amends not to work...

If you have a group where 2 of the scouts have their hate transfer on you, and you invite another scout, and they put their hate transfer on you as well....how would you ever know that your amends isnt working?  your getting so much hate from the scouts, you would barely need to taunt...so 1: how do you know its bugged 2: you completely missed the point apparently
I don't know how much experiance you have playing your Pally, but let me put it to you this way.  If I have a Warlock and an Assassin together, if I Amend the Warlock, I can lose aggro on long single-target encounters; if I put it on the Assassin, I can lose aggro on multiple mob encounters.  I understand that I can get a good amount of hate from scouts, but the argument of "I don't have to taunt" is totally invalid if you're playing with people who are doing their job properly.

 

Now...you KNOW if you put amends on that scout.....it's not going to work...you KNOW this.....so why is it so difficult to understand that is how the new wizard hate transfer works?
Searches previous posts where I have indicated that everything is wonderful with Amends being buggy on Scouts and now I'm shocked that a buggy hate transfer spell has now hit the limit because it applies to a Wizard... nope... can't find it.

amends isnt buggy with scouts, it is well known that amends wont work if you put it on a scout that has their hate transfer on you....if there is a scout in the group, you put amends on someone else.....the only difference is that now you dont put amends on the sorceror as well
Ok, we keep coming back to the Wizard, but I really could care less what class we're talking about.  The entire post had nothing to do with Wizards and everything to do with Amends.  That has been my entire point.

and if you decide to put amends on one of the scouts, arent you going to TELL someone?  because you KNOW it isnt going to work unless that scout removes his transfer

Um... yes, and that's my point.  

again...I cant really see a point in putting amends on a scout
I can see plenty of reasons to put Amends on a scout.

lets try a metaphor here
I love these and I'm so glad I made it through 8th grade english to know what a Metaphor is.

Thanks!  I like metaphors....it's a good word to...like metaframe, and metadata and all that

 

scout hate transfer + paladin amends = amends not working
Check... Hey wait, this isn't a Metaphor!

*points down to the math portion*
Ah... I see!

 

so you know that hate transfer + amends = amends not working
Yep, I sure do. :smileyhappy:

 

wizard hate transfer + amends = ??????????   WHY IS THAT SO CONFUSING?????!!!!
I give up... why?

Same reason it doest work for scouts
Man, and I thought it had something to do with the robe...

 

if 2+3=5

I think you could figure out what 3+2=
Oh boy, math!  Let me try one that demonstrates my point...  41% + 2% = 43% (Not 0%).  Maybe we could team up and do some instense math postings to get the point across that Amends is bugged...
Round #2 with Math.  So we have this issue where you don't think that Paladins should have BOTH hate gains (even though other classes get their hate gain + whatever is put on them).  That's fine by me really... How's about we hit a middle ground and say:
41% + 2% = 41% (NOT 0%). 

 

not only that,

 

you say "And as far as going through 20-30 different icons to figure out just who put what up, and trying to tell this person to please don't put your hate transfer on me because I'm the only tank class that you'll have to worry about bugs with, isn't a communication issue, it's a buff issue."

 

yes....if you wanna go change who amends is on....yes....you need to talk about it
Once again, this is my point.  If I'm a Bezerker I don't have to let people know that I'm putting up things that give me hate, same thing with EVERY OTHER CLASS.

Berserkers dont have buffs that affect hate the way amends does....people need to talk about these sorts of things...this is why there are so many people in their 40+ lvls and dont know what other classes do
You're absolutely correct, no other class has the Amends line like we do.

 

just because you didnt read the update notes on wizards doesnt mean that something is bugged
Why does the update notes on a Wizard have anything to do with Amends being bugged?  I have no idea where you got the idea that I thought that Amends should be buggy with every class but a Wizard, but that is NOT what I think.  Please review my math section for further details...:smileywink:

no....Im saying amends isnt buggy at all really.....at least...not when it comes to hate transfer classes
Let me say it just one more time for giggles... 41% + 2% = 0%
Maybe I didn't go to calc 4 in college, but I do see a tiny issue with the above math problem.  If you look really closely, you might be able to find the issue.  :smileyvery-happy:

Footnote:
Ok, I think we've had a fun 'bout but I honestly think I see where we disagree.  You believe that Amends should totally cancel out when another hate buff is cast, and I believe that if there is a fear about us being total aggro holders that the highest hate transfer should hold instead of being wiped to 0% (otherwise, just let it stack).

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(Wow...this is an ugly color)  AHHA...ok...yeah..that's where we disagree...I guess I just dont see amends wiping when mixed with another hate transfer buff, and you do.  I can understand that....other buffs just cancel the use of the worse one (master1 buff will cancel different player AD3 buff) so one would expect amends and whatever else to work that way.  I can see that.

I see your point now.....I just dont see it as buggy.  i just see it as how it works

(Oh...and the Christmas tree needed a trunk)

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[Matheos]

ohhhh you have got to love the lively debate that the use of amends always brings up between Pallies :smileyhappy:

I consider myself to be a reasonably competent EQII player who has had a Paladin as my main since Dec 2004. I have tanked most things in the game including many of the high end raid mobs so I have had the opportunity to try out the pally in many different situations. over time I have developed a few personal veiws on the aggro holding ability we have and  I thought I would share these just to stoke the fire a bit :smileywink: :-

Other tanks classes would kill to have the Amends ability. Think on that for a moment, why would that be?

Aggro management in a group/raid is everyones responsibility. The higher up the food chain you get the more the group needs to understand that.

In most situations (raids excepted) you are responsible for pulling the mob and hence control the timing of the fights. Before you pull know your group, know your Mob, know your abilities. Amends is not all we have and a good Paladin will be using his taunts, shield bash, sigil and yes even rescue to ensure that he never loses aggro.

No tank can (or should) be able to stand and do nothing and expect to hold aggro, this includes us.

I do not believe that Amends is bugged. I believe that it is designed not to stack with other hate transfers. It is intentional and it is this wayin my opinion becuase of my statement above . Where would be the challange in playing a tank that could simply stand there with 120% in transfered hate. I also believe that scout transfers do not stack onto the same target for exactly the same reason. Aggro control should be something we work to acheive not something that is handed to us (or any other tank) on a plate

If played well I believe that the Paladin is the single best group tank in this game and holds their own in the raid sphere when needed. if we get it right we can take a 1 healer group with 4 tier 1 DPS classes through any zone in this game and not have aggro problems. (I will put a caveat here for those people who think it is funny to try to steal aggro and thus don't follow simple group rules like hitting yout target!)

Bottom line for me is that as a tank class we rock and most knowledgable players of other classes (esp DPS ones) in the game know this already:smileyhappy:

so get out there and enjoy!!

 

 

 

[Boethius_Permafrost]

So who is who?  Shaidown was saying "Everything works if you understand the restrictions on hate transfer, and the group coordinates their transfers correctly," and Rarlin is saying "Yeah, but it's a bug because the stonger buff (amends) really SHOULD take effect.  How hard is that?"  Or did I get that backwards?You guys need to color code that stuff and provide a legend.  Better yet, learn to simplify.

[Shaidown]

pretty much, yeah:smileywink:

[Rarlin]

IS THIS BETTER???

[Shaidown]

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Rarlin wrote:
IS THIS BETTER???

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NO...BUT THIS IS!!!!!

I just couldnt let myself REALLY agree with Rarlin....just wouldn't be in the spirit of things

[Rarlin]

lol,We had a good spirited debate and I'm glad that while we may disagree on some things, at least we can get along and not resort to acting like little children. :smileytongue:

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Shaidown wrote:

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Rarlin wrote:IS THIS BETTER???

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NO...BUT THIS IS!!!!!

I just couldnt let myself REALLY agree with Rarlin....just wouldn't be in the spirit of things

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[tiger911]

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Rarlin wrote:

Ok, let's keep this going because I like the Christmas tree look that this post has. :smileytongue:

Footnote:
Ok, I think we've had a fun 'bout but I honestly think I see where we disagree.  You believe that Amends should totally cancel out when another hate buff is cast, and I believe that if there is a fear about us being total aggro holders that the highest hate transfer should hold instead of being wiped to 0% (otherwise, just let it stack).

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I agree with that statement completely, EITHER let the top hate transfer (99% if not 100% is amends) or let it stack, one of the two, but math wise, I really don't see how 41+ X = 0 (X being the 2ndary hate transfer). Or better yet, make it so the game gives a message to the 2nd person to cast the hate transfer won't allow to put hate transfer (but ofcourse that would require quite a few new lines of coding, so prolly the 2 other options are better for SOE's lazy programmers).  There is a work around, but I am afraid if I post it here the nerf patrol will come on and nerf that as well.

[CycoDelic]

Amazing... I spose I shouldnt make a post and go a week without checking it :smileyvery-happy:

 

For those who saw the lighthearted humor, thanks for the support

For those who didn't (I mean, c'mon, I offered 3 mos of free lawncare!) get to bed before 6am and ffs move out of yer mother's basement :smileysurprised:

[Brigh]

Oh...this isn't a thread about better love making?

 

 

[madha]

Cant the wizards cast their hate trasfer to anyone in a raid even if they arn't grouped with them..  Our guild tells our wizards to just dump hate on monks since they can FD.. 

But you are right we should all know that our hate transfer doesnt stack with hate trasfers on the same person casting his hate transfer on you, but why would you even try that scout transfers what 30% of his hate to you and you absorb 30% of his hate so he has 30% less hate to tranfser to you =P.  What i dont understand since i have never played a coercer is why they need to be in the MT group i know they have AA's for crit healing and can reduce the other group memebers hate like healers, and have a dps mod, but what can they do as far as keeping agro on the tank.  We tryed one a new guild member and omg hate was all over the place..

Althought sigil and fusion works nice for agro control, we have most of or wizards trained for sigil use, they can dump alot of hate on you in 15 seconds, special with reduced cast times. 

 Its all about cominication and teaching people your class.. Most wizards if given the choice would take amends over their hate trasnfer.

[Zo]

Coercer's have a single target hate buff, like a dirge, that they can cast on the MT. Coercer + Dirge combo in a MT group seems to be the only way to reach really nice raidwide DPS numbers.