Where did our grp heal go?

[Perfectio]

Okay. So we get our last grp heal at lvl 56. Why? All spells and CA's was supposed to be replaced every 13lvls except for ancient and whatever spells. When KoS first came out I think shamans shared the same bug. Their grp ward was lvl 56 and didnt get replaced. Now they have fixed shamans grp ward, so they got a new one. But where is the t7 pally grp heal? If this ever gonna get fixed?

[Tazr]

Its pretty powerful as it is, its better than a few priest group heals, not really sure it needs upgrading, just save up and buy the master 1

[MeridianR]

I was lucky enough to find the M1 of it for like 4 plat about 2 months ago....pretty powerful spell, although the power cost is a little high

[Perfectio]

Eh, its master2. Yes lets not fix one of our spells cause its allready good enough! Jesus.

[Knesh]

Uh we get a T7 group heal at 65 called Prayer of Conceration. Its broken though and not inline with our lvl 56 group heal. The Adept 3 is mildly better than 56 master II.

 

Corrected lvl... It was 65. not 56 LOL

Message Edited by Knesh on 06-14-2006 11:35 AM

[Pathin Merrithay]

The 13 level replacement thing is just a guide, not a hard and fast rule no matter what. This has been covered before, and I've got to agree as well. For a group heal, this is extremely powerful, even for a 56th spell.

[Tazr]

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Perfection^ wrote:
Eh, its master2.

Yes lets not fix one of our spells cause its allready good enough! Jesus.

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I cant even get my head around this sentence.  Not sure what you are trying to say.  The level 56 one isnt very good or it is good, or complaining that the T7 one sucks.  But whatever we are going to say wont change your mind I guess

[Anariale]

There is a missing group heal.  It should be lvl 70 as normal spells are upgraded every 14 levels (Ancient Teachings are upgraded every 20 levels... Decree is an Ancient Teaching).  The Devs screwed up.  Dont make excuses for them.

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 11:42 AM

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 11:42 AM

[Aamad]

I totally disagree with it being a guide...as we have upgrades for this spell every 14 lvls...this is like..the only single spell that doesnt follow this rule in T7. As such, there should be a new one at 70 case closed. And besides...our group heals have always been rather good..since they gave them to us...thats a ridiculous argument to not have an upgrade for a spell lol.

 

Message Edited by Aamadex on 06-14-2006 11:03 AM

[Pathin Merrithay]

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Anariale wrote:
There is a missing group heal.  It should be lvl 70 as normal spells are upgraded every 14 levels (Ancient Teachings are upgraded every 20 levels... Decree is an Ancient Teaching).  The Devs screwed up.  Dont make excuses for them.

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 11:42 AM

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 11:42 AM

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Is that a fact? Despite Decree having been implemented long before Ancient Teachings scolls were in effect? Or what about the Amends line, which has no upgrade after 13 levels? Read back through Dev posts; It's been stated multiple times that the 13 level thing was -NEVER- meant to be a hard and fast rule. The 56 group heal is more then adequate, even at 70th.

[Aamad]

It isn't superior to priest group heals either...its identical pretty much...same power cost and everything...Instead of assuming Sony knows what they are doing /cough...perhaps it would be more intelligent to think hey they might have overlooked something

Message Edited by Aamadex on 06-14-2006 11:17 AM

[ECDMupp]

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Aamadex wrote:

Instead of assuming Sony knows what they are doing /cough...perhaps it would be more intelligent to think hey they might have overlooked something

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And these two things have to be mutually exclusive? If (and that's a realtively big "if", given the power of the 56 spell) the devs overlooked something, it hardly means they are incompotent. Implying that the intelligent theory is that the devs don't know what they're doing, and asuming you know better, is pretty arrogant, since I don't see anyone here making a successful MMO. On the subject of getting better heals, be careful what you wish for. It's not wise to try to achieve too much healing prowess, lest that be the way you want to play your toon for the rest of the time you play it. If you want an example (both of healing paladins, and bad development teams), go play WoW's endgame. Pallies have great heals there, and will never tank anything. Ever. They sit in one spot in raids, and spam one or two buttons for four hours straight. Think EQ2's crafting system, except that 40 people will get [Removed for Content] off at you if you don't go the full four hours to finish grinding your mats. No, my friend. the devs did not overlook anything, in my humble opinion. We have tanking skills, more tanking skills, and a little bit of DPS and healing for when we're not needed to tank. That's the way the class is, and the way it should be. If you want to heal as a paladin, go play WoW, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 06-14-2006 09:42 AM

[OrcSlayer96]

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Aamadex wrote:
It isn't superior to priest group heals either...its identical pretty much...same power cost and everything...Instead of assuming Sony knows what they are doing /cough...perhaps it would be more intelligent to think hey they might have overlooked something

Message Edited by Aamadex on 06-14-2006 11:17 AM

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I was suprised when they did not adda level 70 version of the group heal, but i much rather have brimstone in the level 70 bracket then a even more power hungry group heal.  If you look at our level 70 spell selection, we have 3 level 70 spells, that is just right as far as i am concerned.  Compared to our single traget heal that is higher level, our group heal kicks butt on healing potential, especially at Master 1 quality and we have always had a history of power hungry spells before compared to many classes.  The Spells available currently to us are right on, if i had a wish, it would be for a out of combat revive spell with a 15 meter range tossed in our mid 60's spell line to allow us to revive those poor grey corpses in dungeons with out having to break group and invite for the rez.  That and make our sacrament line spell go from a 3 second casting time to a 1 second casting time just like other fighters that have large self heals.  I love my heals, but i dont want to be labeled as the crappy tank that thinks like he heals as goodas a priest, i rather be the swiss army knife utility tank that brings a ton of abilities to any encounter....

[Anariale]

Is that a fact? - Actually, yes it is.Despite Decree having been implemented long before Ancient Teachings scolls were in effect? - All spells that were first received at lvl 50 are counted as Ancient Teachings now.Or what about the Amends line, which has no upgrade after 13 levels?- Amends wasnt upgraded because its already so high of a %-based spell.  Its the exception, not the rule.Looking back over things, it appears that the bug is that we get our last group heal at lvl 56, not 58.Group Heal Levels - 3, 16, 30, 44, 56

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 02:21 PM

[Pathin Merrithay]

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Anariale wrote:
Is that a fact?
- Actually, yes it is.

Despite Decree having been implemented long before Ancient Teachings scolls were in effect?
- All spells that were first received at lvl 50 are counted as Ancient Teachings now.

Or what about the Amends line, which has no upgrade after 13 levels?
- Amends wasnt upgraded because its already so high of a %-based spell.  Its the exception, not the rule.


Looking back over things, it appears that the bug is that we get our last group heal at lvl 56, not 58.
Group Heal Levels - 3, 16, 30, 44, 56

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 02:21 PM

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Ancient Teachings spells are specific spells dropped from specific scrolls that require a rare component to fashion into an adept 3 unless you get one of the rare Adept 1 drops. Decree is a 50 spell that you still auto-learn and does not require a specific dropped recipe. Decree is not an 'Ancient Teachings' spell. Nor is Pious Aid, also a spell you get at 50. Nor is Zealous Preaching. You can't 'count' something as an Ancient Teaching just because you feel like saying so. If you can point me to a specific Dev Quote to the contrary however, feel free to correct.

Our group heal is extraordinarily powerful. As good as most preist classes group heals. Better then some, and we get it at 56th. Not all spells follow the 13 level upgrade cycle. That's just how it is. Dev's have mentioned this specifically in the past, there are multiple examples in our own spell list where cerain lines don't follow this rule. I'm really not sure how much proof you need.

[Anariale]

Not all spells follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.Actually, no spells over lvl 10 follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.  Its every 14 levels.Dev's have mentioned this specifically in the past, Ok, please linkthere are multiple examples in our own spell list where cerain lines don't follow this rule.Specific examples please (over lvl 10)(Hint - All Paladin Spells from 10+ are received in 14 level increments)

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 02:59 PM

[ECDMupp]

aggressive much? I

Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 06-14-2006 12:09 PM

[Tazr]

The entire thing seems like an unwarranted gripe to me.  They will take the T7 one, leave it alone and nerf the T6 one to be in line.  WTG guys.

[ECDMupp]

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Anariale wrote:

Not all spells follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.Actually, no spells over lvl 10 follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.  Its every 14 levels.Dev's have mentioned this specifically in the past, Ok, please linkthere are multiple examples in our own spell list where cerain lines don't follow this rule.Specific examples please (over lvl 10)(Hint - All Paladin Spells from 10+ are received in 14 level increments)

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 02:59 PM

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If you feel that the developers made a mistake, based on what you assume about the fact that we're supposed to get our spells renewed every 14 levels, then it's probably beholdant on you to quote where the developers said that was supposed to be the case, rather than insisting that others quote where they siad they didn't. The burden of proof for your hypothesis is on you, since you've got no specific proof that you're "right", besides anecdotal information and assumptions.

[Pathin Merrithay]

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ECDMuppet wrote:

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Anariale wrote:
Not all spells follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.
Actually, no spells over lvl 10 follow the 13 level upgrade cycle.  Its every 14 levels.

Dev's have mentioned this specifically in the past,
Ok, please link

there are multiple examples in our own spell list where cerain lines don't follow this rule.
Specific examples please (over lvl 10)
(Hint - All Paladin Spells from 10+ are received in 14 level increments)

Message Edited by Anariale on 06-14-2006 02:59 PM

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If you feel that the developers made a mistake, based on what you assume about the fact that we're supposed to get our spells renewed every 14 levels, then it's probably beholdant on you to quote where the developers said that was supposed to be the case, rather than insisting that others quote where they siad they didn't. The burden of proof for your hypothesis is on you, since you've got no specific proof that you're "right", besides anecdotal information and assumptions.

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I have a new hero. Well stated, and much more politely then I was going to phrase my rebuttal.

I will note though, that while spells upgrade every 14 levels, you hardly need to be nit-picky about a phrasing. I get a spell at 50th. I use it through 63rd. It upgrades at 64th. 63-50=13. Call it 14 if that makes you feel better.

[BlueMustang]

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Knesh wrote:

Uh we get a T7 group heal at 65 called Prayer of Conceration. Its broken though and not inline with our lvl 56 group heal. The Adept 3 is mildly better than 56 master II.

 

Corrected lvl... It was 65. not 56 LOL

Message Edited by Knesh on 06-14-2006 11:35 AM

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What? Don't we get Prayer of Consecration at 56? I thought that was the whole point of this post, the fact that there is no T7 group heal spell.

[Knesh]

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BlueMustang99 wrote:

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Knesh wrote:

Uh we get a T7 group heal at 65 called Prayer of Conceration. Its broken though and not inline with our lvl 56 group heal. The Adept 3 is mildly better than 56 master II.

 

Corrected lvl... It was 65. not 56 LOL

Message Edited by Knesh on 06-14-2006 11:35 AM

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What? Don't we get Prayer of Consecration at 56? I thought that was the whole point of this post, the fact that there is no T7 group heal spell.

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Yes it was the 56 spell. But unfortunately I am not able to login to check which one I am currently using I swore we got one in the 60's. But unfortunately no website has up-to-date paladin spells that I can find so I will have to save my answer for later LOL.

[Wulfborne]

http://www.eq2ref.com/abilities/?class=Paladin

 

There ya go.

 

Last group heal was Prayer of Consecration (lvl 56).

 

We got a "Lay Hands" line upgrade at lvl 62, and a single-target heal at lvl 64.

 

~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Champion of Drednever