Which Master 2 At 64?

Lairdragna · 04-08-2006, 06:53 AM

To me there are really two choices... either your main heal or your lay hands upgrade. I think I would get a lot more use out of the main heal, and at 250-300 more in healing over adept 1 this is a nice upgrade. The again, the lay hands is a minimum of 1,000 more healing. That could work in a serious jam for sure, problem is, I rarely use my lay hands line and it has a wicked recast time. If only an upgraded ward was an option since I usually offtank and every fight begins with me putting this on the main tank, or me pulling and right after I taunt I put my ward on myself.

Majorminor · 04-08-2006, 08:53 AM

/shrug I went with the aoe taunt. But I MT lots. It was hard choice between the LoH though, but I use the taunt wayyyy more then LoH hehe.

TheManInTheBox · 04-08-2006, 11:05 AM

I went with the aoe taunt as well..

Turb · 04-08-2006, 03:02 PM

AoE taunt. It's a debuff too.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-08-2006, 06:47 PM

I went with the LOH myself, the difference between Master 1 and 2 group taunt is 30 points, plus i have saved groups i have been in many more times witht the instant cast of a 4,000 hp heal. With going into healing crit on int line i can boost this master 2 LOH to be even higher along with my other heals. The extra healing was too good to pass up and i havent felt bad since... SMILEY

Pathin Merrithay · 04-08-2006, 08:39 PM

It's largely going to depend on what Master I's you already had. With both LoH and Fervent Aid already, the Taunt was a no-brainer. Even if I hadn't however, and all things being even, I'd have been hard pressed -not- to have picked it.

demolition tank · 04-09-2006, 12:46 PM

I don't think i'de ever do a LoH master, the skill is nice in a pinch but has no practical use.

Lairdragna · 04-09-2006, 06:35 PM

I chose the standard heal, and let me tell you, on our raid in Poets 2 last night it came in VERY handy. We had a couple close calls, and I'm convinced there were a couple times the tank would have gone down had it not been for my upgraded heal partnered with my ward and FT gear. Our healers got manatapped and could barely get heals off. The taunt would have done nothing for us last night, although I see its value in group and will have an adept 3 made if not find a master.I'm also convinced that all the money I invested in FT gear was well spent. Everyone laughed, but I had FT 27 going last night and that 270 a minute power regen during a 10 minute fight was a lifesaver... or life rezzer... for many.

robusticus · 04-09-2006, 07:55 PM

Good job. Some nice FT 7 plate boots in PPTR, the only plate or remotely fighter oriented gear I've ever seen with FT... aside from the 500 hour ordeal of the peacoq or prismatic quests...

I too picked that for my master choice for that same reason and in the past it has been great on raids... you start thinking, if I spam this one spell the whole time, given my mana pool, how much can I heal for?

Only problem for me is I don't raid any more and my pally is pretty much camped until they fix the wards and we start seeing some other positive changes that don't involve some sort of trade off nerf.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-09-200609:02 AM

Rasplori · 04-11-2006, 12:52 AM

I have the Master 1 AOE Taunt so I took Master 2 Heal - why? Because I do a lot of healing, whether I'm MTing or "hanging out" in a group. M2 Lay Hands is nice but on Befallen, the M1 seems to be a common drop, so I'll look for it instead.

Turb · 04-17-2006, 03:43 AM

BTW, I had assumed Master 2 taunt would be harder to resist, but it seems not. Both M1 and M2 are listed for me at 48%. So maybe yeah, Master 2 taunt for a few extra points isn't such a no brainer... hmmm.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-17-2006, 08:27 PM

Turb0T wrote:
BTW, I had assumed Master 2 taunt would be harder to resist, but it seems not. Both M1 and M2 are listed for me at 48%. So maybe yeah, Master 2 taunt for a few extra points isn't such a no brainer... hmmm.

It truely is just your playstyle. The master 2 group taunt looks nice but 80% of the time i am either off tanking or utility tanking, not main tanking. The amount of times that i have saved the group/raid members with a timely lay on hands is too high to count. I will invest in the time to get a master 1 group ae and master 1 aid heal but to be honest i have found more enjoyment slapping down a 4,200 health instant heal than anything else. With a increased healing crit coupled with a friendly troubadour, i should see some nice numbers. Not only for group/raid, it is my emergency backup in soloing/harvesting when the mobs are hitting you while you try to flee, a nice instant heal has helped reduce my total deaths by alot.

Turb · 04-18-2006, 11:48 AM

Good point, a critical heal on a Master II on the top end of the Lay on Hands line could be quite impressive SMILEY

I was just surprised to see the resistability of M1 and M2 taunts the same. Hence I agree the M2 choice is (at present) less attractive.

PulsarBD · 04-20-2006, 08:52 AM

i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast.and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice.you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups).the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro.so your taunts can never be good/high enough.despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it.get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer.the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough.

OrcSlayer96 · 04-21-2006, 02:18 AM

PulsarBD wrote:
i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast.
and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice.
you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups).
the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro.
so your taunts can never be good/high enough.
despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it.
get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer.
the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough.

Like you say it is a personal choice, the difference between master 2 and master 1 of righteousness on hate is around 30 pints of hate with identical resistability of 48%, the mob has a equal chance to resist either one, just the master has a tiny bit more hate and debuff. It was a toss up between celestial touch with a increase range of 200 more health or master 2 fervant aid with a nice increase of health versus Master 1. So far when tanking I have had little problems of getting and keeping agro so i wished to increase my survivalability, which our lay on hands can do. If you have a good group working with you agro is usually a sure thing for a pally that knows his class and keeps his spells upgraded. Now if our Ward spell was a option i would take that one hands down over any other spell in my arsenal... SMILEY

Ultim · 04-21-2006, 09:52 AM

OrcSlayer96 wrote:

PulsarBD wrote:
i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast.
and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice.
you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups).
the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro.
so your taunts can never be good/high enough.
despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it.
get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer.
the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough.

Like you say it is a personal choice, the difference between master 2 and master 1 of righteousness on hate is around 30 pints of hate with identical resistability of 48%, the mob has a equal chance to resist either one, just the master has a tiny bit more hate and debuff. It was a toss up between celestial touch with a increase range of 200 more health or master 2 fervant aid with a nice increase of health versus Master 1. So far when tanking I have had little problems of getting and keeping agro so i wished to increase my survivalability, which our lay on hands can do. If you have a good group working with you agro is usually a sure thing for a pally that knows his class and keeps his spells upgraded. Now if our Ward spell was a option i would take that one hands down over any other spell in my arsenal...

Yes celestial touch is definitely a GREAT spell and it does save from a possible wipe, but the beauty of Righteousness at master 2, appart from having to wait until you get it master 1 so that it can even hope to compensate, well yeah thats pretty much it ;P... if you already had it master 1 then by all means thats an awesome tradeoff, but you are going by the assumption that righteousness is a common drop. i dont know about you, but its not too common and with every man and his dog it seems picking the pally class, the odds that you are going to get that master at all are reduced. the adept 3 version is a considerable drop from master 1, or even master 2. i love my lay on hands, or Celestial Touch as it is now called, but i would never sacrifice tanking ability for healing ability.

But yeah, the ward master 2 would be sweet, hardly anything hits me at master 1, but with master 2... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!! (i'd still pick the taunt however ;P)

Ultim · 04-21-2006, 09:53 AM

demolition tank wrote:
I don't think i'de ever do a LoH master, the skill is nice in a pinch but has no practical use.

well i went the taunt too, but really as if it has no practical use, that spell saves wipes SMILEY

Dwergux · 04-21-2006, 01:40 PM

I chose the direct heal.2 reasons:1. I use the heal the most (since it's usefull when you are tanking and when you aren't tanking)2. Aggro wasn't much of a problem for me at 64 (I had to make a choice at that point)I'm currently bidding on a M1 version of righteousness (Auction closes next sunday).LOH M2 seems nice, but it's a skill I still keep for emergancies and at that time the difference between Ad 3 and M2 wasn't worth it to me.

Guiddian · 04-21-2006, 06:34 PM

i chose feverant aid m2 as well. i had righteousness celestial touch and holy circle masters already so there was only 1 choice for me

OrcSlayer96 · 04-21-2006, 08:56 PM

Guiddian wrote:
i chose feverant aid m2 as well. i had righteousness celestial touch and holy circle masters already so there was only 1 choice for me

Which reminds me, could some kind hearted pallies post the master specs on fervant aid and righteousness? When i get home tonight i will work on a quick post to show the difference in spells from apprentice to master 2 to help people see before they hit the 64 choice. Also if somebody can post the master 2 of holy circle also i would greatly appreciate it... SMILEY

CrimsonValerian · 04-22-2006, 07:42 PM

when i get home i'll post that info for you slayer

NORArther · 04-24-2006, 11:47 AM

Just going to add my 2 cps worth.

As has been said, it's personal preference all the way.

That being said, I went with Fervent Aid for M2 for quite a few reasons. First of all, I use it regularly, both as an MT and as an Average Joe group member. I rarely have aggro problems when MT'ing (I use Amends regularly as well), and if I do, Rescue and/or Sigil of Heroism get my aggro back for me instantly.

I use my LoH fairly often as well. I used to hoard it a bit, keeping it only for last ditch emergencies. I've learned I'd rather use it if it even looks remotely like a group member is going down. I've not yet upgraded it to A3 ( and will go M1 when I see it for sale), but at A1 the spell heals for 2500- 3500 hps. That's huge, and more than enough to keep the MT (or anyone else for that matter) from gettin' dead. There's just not a huge difference in any setting I've been in between roughly 3k hp's and 4k'ish. If a 3k HP heal isn't going to give the healer(s) time to do their work, then the MT "might" be S.O.L. anyway. I say "might" because I can cast Fervent Aid (at M2 it heals for 850-1050ish if I recall correctly) right after I use my LoH and then throw my ward. All totaled I'm looking 4-5k+ in healing/dmg prevention in about 10-15 seconds. Then soon after, my 15 second reuse timer on Fervent Aid is just about back up and I can throw it again. And again 15 seconds later, and again, and again, so on and so forth, ad nauseum.

So after saying all of that, I come back to my earlier statement: It all boils down to personal preference and play style.

04-08-2006, 08:53 AM	#2
Majorminor Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 372	/shrug I went with the aoe taunt. But I MT lots. It was hard choice between the LoH though, but I use the taunt wayyyy more then LoH hehe. __________________

04-08-2006, 11:05 AM	#3
TheManInTheBox Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 156	I went with the aoe taunt as well.. __________________

04-08-2006, 03:02 PM	#4
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	AoE taunt. It's a debuff too. __________________

04-11-2006, 12:52 AM	#10
Rasplori Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	I have the Master 1 AOE Taunt so I took Master 2 Heal - why? Because I do a lot of healing, whether I'm MTing or "hanging out" in a group. M2 Lay Hands is nice but on Befallen, the M1 seems to be a common drop, so I'll look for it instead. __________________ Rasplorien Aegerius Paladin Fallen

04-17-2006, 03:43 AM	#11
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	BTW, I had assumed Master 2 taunt would be harder to resist, but it seems not. Both M1 and M2 are listed for me at 48%. So maybe yeah, Master 2 taunt for a few extra points isn't such a no brainer... hmmm. __________________

04-08-2006, 06:53 AM	#1
Lairdragna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 543	To me there are really two choices... either your main heal or your lay hands upgrade. I think I would get a lot more use out of the main heal, and at 250-300 more in healing over adept 1 this is a nice upgrade. The again, the lay hands is a minimum of 1,000 more healing. That could work in a serious jam for sure, problem is, I rarely use my lay hands line and it has a wicked recast time. If only an upgraded ward was an option since I usually offtank and every fight begins with me putting this on the main tank, or me pulling and right after I taunt I put my ward on myself.

04-08-2006, 06:47 PM	#5
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	I went with the LOH myself, the difference between Master 1 and 2 group taunt is 30 points, plus i have saved groups i have been in many more times witht the instant cast of a 4,000 hp heal. With going into healing crit on int line i can boost this master 2 LOH to be even higher along with my other heals. The extra healing was too good to pass up and i havent felt bad since...

04-08-2006, 08:39 PM	#6
Pathin Merrithay Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 473	It's largely going to depend on what Master I's you already had. With both LoH and Fervent Aid already, the Taunt was a no-brainer. Even if I hadn't however, and all things being even, I'd have been hard pressed -not- to have picked it.

04-09-2006, 12:46 PM	#7
demolition tank Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	I don't think i'de ever do a LoH master, the skill is nice in a pinch but has no practical use.

04-09-2006, 06:35 PM	#8
Lairdragna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 543	I chose the standard heal, and let me tell you, on our raid in Poets 2 last night it came in VERY handy. We had a couple close calls, and I'm convinced there were a couple times the tank would have gone down had it not been for my upgraded heal partnered with my ward and FT gear. Our healers got manatapped and could barely get heals off. The taunt would have done nothing for us last night, although I see its value in group and will have an adept 3 made if not find a master.I'm also convinced that all the money I invested in FT gear was well spent. Everyone laughed, but I had FT 27 going last night and that 270 a minute power regen during a 10 minute fight was a lifesaver... or life rezzer... for many.

04-09-2006, 07:55 PM	#9
robusticus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 220	Good job. Some nice FT 7 plate boots in PPTR, the only plate or remotely fighter oriented gear I've ever seen with FT... aside from the 500 hour ordeal of the peacoq or prismatic quests... I too picked that for my master choice for that same reason and in the past it has been great on raids... you start thinking, if I spam this one spell the whole time, given my mana pool, how much can I heal for? Only problem for me is I don't raid any more and my pally is pretty much camped until they fix the wards and we start seeing some other positive changes that don't involve some sort of trade off nerf. Message Edited by robusticus on 04-09-200609:02 AM

04-17-2006, 08:27 PM	#12
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Turb0T wrote: BTW, I had assumed Master 2 taunt would be harder to resist, but it seems not. Both M1 and M2 are listed for me at 48%. So maybe yeah, Master 2 taunt for a few extra points isn't such a no brainer... hmmm. It truely is just your playstyle. The master 2 group taunt looks nice but 80% of the time i am either off tanking or utility tanking, not main tanking. The amount of times that i have saved the group/raid members with a timely lay on hands is too high to count. I will invest in the time to get a master 1 group ae and master 1 aid heal but to be honest i have found more enjoyment slapping down a 4,200 health instant heal than anything else. With a increased healing crit coupled with a friendly troubadour, i should see some nice numbers. Not only for group/raid, it is my emergency backup in soloing/harvesting when the mobs are hitting you while you try to flee, a nice instant heal has helped reduce my total deaths by alot.

04-18-2006, 11:48 AM	#13
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	Good point, a critical heal on a Master II on the top end of the Lay on Hands line could be quite impressive I was just surprised to see the resistability of M1 and M2 taunts the same. Hence I agree the M2 choice is (at present) less attractive. __________________

04-20-2006, 08:52 AM	#14
PulsarBD Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 50	i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast.and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice.you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups).the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro.so your taunts can never be good/high enough.despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it.get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer.the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough.

04-21-2006, 02:18 AM	#15
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	PulsarBD wrote: i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast. and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice. you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups). the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro. so your taunts can never be good/high enough. despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it. get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer. the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough. Like you say it is a personal choice, the difference between master 2 and master 1 of righteousness on hate is around 30 pints of hate with identical resistability of 48%, the mob has a equal chance to resist either one, just the master has a tiny bit more hate and debuff. It was a toss up between celestial touch with a increase range of 200 more health or master 2 fervant aid with a nice increase of health versus Master 1. So far when tanking I have had little problems of getting and keeping agro so i wished to increase my survivalability, which our lay on hands can do. If you have a good group working with you agro is usually a sure thing for a pally that knows his class and keeps his spells upgraded. Now if our Ward spell was a option i would take that one hands down over any other spell in my arsenal...

04-21-2006, 09:52 AM	#16
Ultim Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	OrcSlayer96 wrote: PulsarBD wrote: i would simply (and i did actually) decide upon usability and recast. and from the choices i remember Righteousness was the No1 choice. you can use it very often, and main purpose of pally is to be tank, not healer (at least in groups). the healing is supportive, but in order to keep your group (including the real healer) alive you must be able to keep aggro. so your taunts can never be good/high enough. despite master 2 on righteousness some mobs in HoF still can resist it. get Divine touch as master 1 it heals 3.5k - 4k then, taht is more then enough IMO. especially since i really rarely use it because of the long recast timer. the other heals of the pally are a joke anyway: group heal takes too long to cast to be really effective in combat (sometimes i use it after a fight) and the single target heal just doesnt heal enough. Like you say it is a personal choice, the difference between master 2 and master 1 of righteousness on hate is around 30 pints of hate with identical resistability of 48%, the mob has a equal chance to resist either one, just the master has a tiny bit more hate and debuff. It was a toss up between celestial touch with a increase range of 200 more health or master 2 fervant aid with a nice increase of health versus Master 1. So far when tanking I have had little problems of getting and keeping agro so i wished to increase my survivalability, which our lay on hands can do. If you have a good group working with you agro is usually a sure thing for a pally that knows his class and keeps his spells upgraded. Now if our Ward spell was a option i would take that one hands down over any other spell in my arsenal... Yes celestial touch is definitely a GREAT spell and it does save from a possible wipe, but the beauty of Righteousness at master 2, appart from having to wait until you get it master 1 so that it can even hope to compensate, well yeah thats pretty much it ;P... if you already had it master 1 then by all means thats an awesome tradeoff, but you are going by the assumption that righteousness is a common drop. i dont know about you, but its not too common and with every man and his dog it seems picking the pally class, the odds that you are going to get that master at all are reduced. the adept 3 version is a considerable drop from master 1, or even master 2. i love my lay on hands, or Celestial Touch as it is now called, but i would never sacrifice tanking ability for healing ability. But yeah, the ward master 2 would be sweet, hardly anything hits me at master 1, but with master 2... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!! (i'd still pick the taunt however ;P) __________________

04-21-2006, 09:53 AM	#17
Ultim Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	demolition tank wrote: I don't think i'de ever do a LoH master, the skill is nice in a pinch but has no practical use. well i went the taunt too, but really as if it has no practical use, that spell saves wipes __________________

04-21-2006, 01:40 PM	#18
Dwergux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 353	I chose the direct heal.2 reasons:1. I use the heal the most (since it's usefull when you are tanking and when you aren't tanking)2. Aggro wasn't much of a problem for me at 64 (I had to make a choice at that point)I'm currently bidding on a M1 version of righteousness (Auction closes next sunday).LOH M2 seems nice, but it's a skill I still keep for emergancies and at that time the difference between Ad 3 and M2 wasn't worth it to me. __________________

04-21-2006, 06:34 PM	#19
Guiddian Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 98	i chose feverant aid m2 as well. i had righteousness celestial touch and holy circle masters already so there was only 1 choice for me

04-21-2006, 08:56 PM	#20
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	Guiddian wrote: i chose feverant aid m2 as well. i had righteousness celestial touch and holy circle masters already so there was only 1 choice for me Which reminds me, could some kind hearted pallies post the master specs on fervant aid and righteousness? When i get home tonight i will work on a quick post to show the difference in spells from apprentice to master 2 to help people see before they hit the 64 choice. Also if somebody can post the master 2 of holy circle also i would greatly appreciate it...

04-22-2006, 07:42 PM	#21
CrimsonValerian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 74	when i get home i'll post that info for you slayer __________________ Grull the 70 Fat Pally Gulliver the 70 Rat-sassin Zelethos the 66 Combat Medic Mystic

04-24-2006, 11:47 AM	#22
NORArther Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Just going to add my 2 cps worth. As has been said, it's personal preference all the way. That being said, I went with Fervent Aid for M2 for quite a few reasons. First of all, I use it regularly, both as an MT and as an Average Joe group member. I rarely have aggro problems when MT'ing (I use Amends regularly as well), and if I do, Rescue and/or Sigil of Heroism get my aggro back for me instantly. I use my LoH fairly often as well. I used to hoard it a bit, keeping it only for last ditch emergencies. I've learned I'd rather use it if it even looks remotely like a group member is going down. I've not yet upgraded it to A3 ( and will go M1 when I see it for sale), but at A1 the spell heals for 2500- 3500 hps. That's huge, and more than enough to keep the MT (or anyone else for that matter) from gettin' dead. There's just not a huge difference in any setting I've been in between roughly 3k hp's and 4k'ish. If a 3k HP heal isn't going to give the healer(s) time to do their work, then the MT "might" be S.O.L. anyway. I say "might" because I can cast Fervent Aid (at M2 it heals for 850-1050ish if I recall correctly) right after I use my LoH and then throw my ward. All totaled I'm looking 4-5k+ in healing/dmg prevention in about 10-15 seconds. Then soon after, my 15 second reuse timer on Fervent Aid is just about back up and I can throw it again. And again 15 seconds later, and again, and again, so on and so forth, ad nauseum. So after saying all of that, I come back to my earlier statement: It all boils down to personal preference and play style. __________________ Arthur Cloudseeker *NOR/ Lord - EQ2 Realm Leader 80th season Paladin of Marr All around nice guy!