Paladins really do suck.

[Leawyn]

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robusticus wrote:

I've given it a solid try and in the end I think it is just banging one's head against the wall to try to MT with this class.  I will give us, however, that we are the best small group tank where there is no other option. 

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Negative people suck.

[myto]

 

last evening i was able to solo a encounter with lvl 56++ heroics mobs at 59 .. was 1++ and 4 +

 

ofcourse i have better than average gear i suppose but really paladins do not suck.

 

in a grp i rarely have problems holding agro , anyways we could have used a miti buff since warriors get that and they get 80% overpowered avoidence using a buckler.

 

or just give us slay undead aa like we had in eq1, i really did enjoy hitting something for 10k dmg :smileyhappy:

[Turb]

Yeah, one thing I didn't understand with AAs is why templars got some nice anti-undead stuff and not us as well... *shrug*Regarding spell crits on the INT(?) AA line, does that apply to all our attack skills?

[robusticus]

Unfortunately, no, just spells.  I can't see a way to up critical hit chance for CAs for us, but the melee critical chance with a two-hander in offensive stance is pretty good, especially with additions to STR, which also helps out CA damage.

And I'm not being negative, just realistic.  I think it is somewhat a disservice to the community to get on these boards trumpeting our uber tanking abilities, because it isn't even close at this point, and it is alot more enjoyable (to me at least) to play the role SOE has intended for us.  Just tired of trying to swim up stream, is all.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-02-200607:46 AM

[Turb]

I don't think anyone's claiming we're uber. We are good situationally, e.g. against hordes of undead, or for a group with one healer looking to push the envelope a bit.What I disagree with is that paladins are boring to play. While my bruiser can solo faster, and has some pretty nice burst dps inbetween which he can keep a solo enemy messed/feared, I get more overall fun from my paladin. Even with my all-round parry capability on my bruiser I can't engage such large groups with him.Depends what you want. If everyone enjoyed the same thing it'd be a bit more boring

[robusticus]

No, not uber, but trying to claim a Paladin is as good or better a tank than a warrior... I'm not seeing that even slightly, no matter the situation, even after gearing and choosing to be a tank, as much as possible.  The nice thing this time around is we have choices and the crit chances make mana usage so much more efficient.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-02-200608:11 AM

[Rocksthemic]

In groups, with comparable gear. Paladins are the better tanks hands down, imo. We can control aggro better than most any other tank class, group encounters are never so hard that the difference between guardian and paladin is gonna make a huge difference, and we get the abilty to save other classes with rez, ward, or LoH.If you suck in groups as a paladin, switching to a gaurdian isn't gonna help you, you will still suck, just worse.ThundaarrUnrest

[sliderhouserules]

On the subject of visually exciting... I giggle every time I cast Consecrate. Well... not so much anymore, but I used to. :smileytongue: I *love* that spell. Very cool looking.

[Deevaun]

I've played my pal since day 1 of EQ2.  When I first started, I was awed with the graphics.  I loved righteous blow on how lightning would shoot out onto the sword as you hit the mob.  I loved my swings attack watching it envelop in flame as i hit the mob.  The bash and the kick.  It was sweet.  Learning HOs.  I had a great time.  When I was 50 before any expansion, I was having no issues out DPSing lazy DPSers.  Expansion came out.  My dps dropped, but again, I had no problem with agro or anything else. 

I think, you feel the animations we have are boring, because you have not made it very far.  In a couple levels you will experience Consecrate.  Which has an awesome graphical appearance.  Just wait till Castiage : )  When beams of light comes shooting out of the sky to envelop your enemies.  A lot of it is the same over and over.  But so is every class progression.  Once you've seen your ability, you will see it thousands of times over again. 

For those of you who say you run out of power to fast, yes you will.  Depends whose in your group, and your gear.  I personally have a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load of FT gear plus prismatic 2.  So for me, power is not a problem. If you do not have these, there are power potions.  This might spice up your life a bit. 

For those who say LoH and Reverent Sacrament sucks.  Those abilities have saved my life a TON.  My ward rocks, Fervent Aid rules, and a nice group heal.  We have such a HUGE amount of OMG i"m gonna DIE abilities.  Divine Favor, then we have AAs.  Divine Auras fairly great.  You tell me a tank that can run through a zone, pick up a ton of mobs, cast DA allowing their healer a bit of time to catch up and start healing, whip out Hammer Ground knocking EVERY mob surrounding you to the ground stunning them for 2 seconds, barrage them with Consecrate, Unflinching Conviction, Doom Judgement, Briimstone, Holy Symbol (can't recall upgrade name), Castiage when youg et dotted, doing this, holding insane agro control with ease.  Yes you can only do consecrate so many times, but you don't need it as much to hold insane agro if you swap play styles.  Its REALLY fun. 

Try doing what i suggested, run througha  zone doing this, without consecrate, find a play style where you hold nice agro with the abilities you hvae, then come back and tell me paladins are boring.  Cause I tell you what, i play my paladin to its fullest, and am never bored, I always have something to do.  Be it, AE, taunting, single dmg, healing, warding, HOs, whatever its pure fun. 

Also at level 60, before KOS, I was able to do any regular group instance without a healer, without a second class that could help heal, just PURE dps.  THATS exciting.  As I am now able to do at level 70.  Blackscale Sepulcher has already been owned by me without a healer or illusionist.  I've gone through HoFwith 1 healer most of the time, and drop mobs like nothing else sometimes with group dps over 5k on t he Berzerkers.  Soon, i will do Halls of Fate without a healer.  Just been busy.

Paladins are VERY intense.  Perhaps re read your stun abilities and start working on timing how long the mobs are stunned, that might keep your mind occupied and add a little zest to the game. 

Of course this is all from my perspective, i love my paladin more then anything, and am always running around with a full group of dps who love playing with me and am always turning down other people cause my groups are always full.  If you are not happy with your class and feel its boring, then perhaps you are playing yoru class for the wrong reasons or have expectations set for the role of good?  Remember good heals, evil kills....good counters the dmg that evil does and with the balance of nature must pay the toll and kill slower. 

Probably rambled on and on, just thoughts from me. 

[Seidhkona]

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robusticus said:it is alot more enjoyable (to me at least) to play the role SOE has intended for us.  Just tired of trying to swim up stream, is all.

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No one is stopping you from playing your role any way you wish. But don't try and trip of those of us who think paladins do NOT suck, that enjoy tanking and are good at it, and who love the game!

[robusticus]

Hahah!  We hold aggro better than guards?  Where you been?  If you have a guard in your group and are tanking the only way to hold aggro is to put amends on them.  If you have a guard with a warlock, every other encounter aggro will bounce to the warlock that way.  So you put amends on the warlock and the guard tanks anyway, at least one mob.   When a guard is tanking aggro never slips... under any circumstance.  No, my friend, we are way behind in aggro management, at this point.  We used to be the best for aggro but that's not the case any longer.

Not trying to trip anyone up here if they're trying to tank... but let's be realistic about it, there are other options for us... if you want to continue fighting the good fight, by all means... I just think we need ALOT of help from SOE to be able to tank the tougher mobs... and somehow I don't think we're gonna get that help, especially if half of us continue to say nothing is wrong. And also especially if some of us come on here bragging about tanking HOF without a healer... whatever.

I just agree with the OP... plate tanking is dull and we are half tanks in comparison to guards who are serious about tanking.  Plus the gear... dunno, i've spent countless hours trying to get decent T7 plate and have got nada, zero, zilch, except for the goosehead, which is a quest reward.  And the FT gear being mostly made for non-tanks doesn't help either.  I love how people always point out gear as part of the answer.  What does it take these days to pull the GodKing down?

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-03-200608:26 AM

[Deevaun]

You my friend, are not aware of paladins full potential.  I am in a raiding guild, and I group daily with some of the best DPS classes in the game.  In NO way shape or form, is a guard better then a paladin in agro management.  At least I have never met a guard who can out agro me.  I have in fact, met no fighter who can out agro me. 

[robusticus]

Oh, like I said, I'm aware of the paladins full potential to get crumpled like a tin can in under 10 seconds.  Ran that play a few too many times, at this point.  Your guards going all STR in AA line?  It is pretty impressive, and a very good thing, what they can do now, aggro wise.

 

Anyway, my last post on this topic.  Was just trying to say the crit chances make it alot more visually appealling.  Dunno that the art was ever the problem, that's always been fantastic, but that's all it is without going for dps...a big fluffy show that does nothing... somebody talked about consecrate, conviction, castigate, brimstone... all those are real nice visually but just imagine when they crit hit frequently or all the time... plus our group heal is nice when it critical heals after a big ae.  Big numbers, both physically on the screen and in the parse log, make a pally have alot more pizzaz... and its not like making that choice means you can't tank the same yard trash... because you still can... just not going to be tanking the tougher nameds, which, in my mind, we couldn't compete in that arena no matter what we pick in our existing AA tree...

[OrcSlayer96]

I truely love my pallie also, in the group/solo arena i have no complaints at all and my sympathy goes out to pallies that experience those problems.  In the raiding situation I am still adamant that they put in a 5% all damage ward that uses a devout essence to help us have more mt raiding capability.  With it having a self only target and 2 min recast it would help us on raids where our normal ward drops in one hit.  With comparing notes with other classes and close to 1,500 quests done, many of which solo, i like the safe and secure method we have of taking mobs down in soloing times.  Like many other posters our group utility is greatly appreciated in just about any group i have been in.   The other week i was MT in a group of 2 necros/2 conjurors and a defiler and agro was no problem.  People losing agro need to see if it is them or the people grouping that is causing the issue.  I was in a raid on Saturday where our raid wiped down to a FD bruiser and when it came down to getting a couple of our guildees rezzed during combat, us pallies were the number one choice for our 100% health rez and durabilty to mob AE damage.  I spent more time in that raid warding,group and single target healing and rezzing the unlucky players that were nuked or dotted to worry about how my skills applied to my guardians.  Now i will agree that if our MT went belly up my guy would most likely last 2 secs, but that is more because when i am raiding i love to be in 2 different modes, offensive 2 hander attack mode or offensive/defensive spellcaster mode with power regen gear on, either mode i sacrifice alot of mit and avoidance. 

 

Any way you slice it, i think a nice improvemt to our class is a spell or ability to boost our tanking ability in a raid situation, group and solo content i am pleased with.

[thial]

i have to laugh at who ever said they loos agro when tanking especialy to another tank...my pallys rocks hes fun and can tank ANY thing raid or group....ever seen a  guard tank HoF completly with a  2 handner in offensive stance with one templar? i havnt but I have done it guard i know tried and first namer owend him....if ur a pally and cant hold agro role a new class if ur a pally and have problems staying alive role a new class.....ur not a pally and dont know how to play one....than again im just uber

Message Edited by thial on 04-03-200604:33 PM

[Goejun]

Man, u say u are uber (forgetting that u are aslo a troll it seems).Can I know your uber mitigation, HP and avoidance ?I have always compliments of people I group about my tanking abilities. I have better stuff than most pally i inspect unless they have started to get many fabled stuff from T7 raids. I have almost all my T7 taunt spell at master level. And most of the time I don't have problems but I must sweat a lot for that. And use some spells on long timers to be sure to keep aggro. And whaterever I do i can lose aggro on any other tank in group if he wants to try to over taunt me.- Pally don't have taunt problems ?Then explain me why we lose aggro agaisnt a guard or monk 3 level under us that has amends master on him when duoing ? I has happened to me when duoing with those 2 class. And several times.It means that the guy with only 59% of its aggro taunt better than us with 100%of our  taunt + its 41%....wow- no  mitigation and avoidance problems ?Wait to see the effect of guardian AA that have physical mitigation buff, 2 parry buff, block buff, defense buff...- Power ?Our spells consume a lot of power and u have to spam it so much that I am always the one with the lowest power after each encounter. And its not by a margin.Etc, etc, etc

[Majorminor]

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Goejun wrote: And whaterever I do i can lose aggro on any other tank in group if he wants to try to over taunt me.- Pally don't have taunt problems ?Then explain me why we lose aggro agaisnt a guard or monk 3 level under us that has amends master on him when duoing ? I has happened to me when duoing with those 2 class. And several times.It means that the guy with only 59% of its aggro taunt better than us with 100%of our  taunt + its 41%....wow

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Sounds to me like these people were trying really hard just to pull aggro, which is not what they should be doing if your MT'ing, period.  If your MT'ing something noone should be trying to "over taunt you".    Sometimes, when I'm grouped with the guilds guard for just normal messing around, I might try to snag aggro from him, Sure I can do it, just as He can snag aggro over me if he want's to.  It's a matter of self control in those situations for every tank that's not the MT to NOT taunt. 

Though We have started experiencing with me having amends on secondary tank in the group and have him taunt.  Worked fine for me, didn't loose aggro.  but 1once, due to some long stun cycle's I got caught in.  But got it back np. 

Oh yea This monk was lvl 68, and I was 62 MT'ing.  Sure it was a lower lvl raid, and I had over 8k hits with buffs, he had just over 7k, thought granted his resist's were nicer in most areas than mine.   

[Leawyn]

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robusticus wrote:

Oh, like I said, I'm aware of the paladins full potential to get crumpled like a tin can in under 10 seconds.  Ran that play a few too many times, at this point.  Your guards going all STR in AA line?  It is pretty impressive, and a very good thing, what they can do now, aggro wise.

 

Anyway, my last post on this topic.  Was just trying to say the crit chances make it alot more visually appealling.  Dunno that the art was ever the problem, that's always been fantastic, but that's all it is without going for dps...a big fluffy show that does nothing... somebody talked about consecrate, conviction, castigate, brimstone... all those are real nice visually but just imagine when they crit hit frequently or all the time... plus our group heal is nice when it critical heals after a big ae.  Big numbers, both physically on the screen and in the parse log, make a pally have alot more pizzaz... and its not like making that choice means you can't tank the same yard trash... because you still can... just not going to be tanking the tougher nameds, which, in my mind, we couldn't compete in that arena no matter what we pick in our existing AA tree...

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Man you are one bitter little pally. All you've done is whine and complain and moan, because your numbers don't have "pizzaz." You want pizzaz, why the hell did you pick a tank class? Tanks are not known for dropping the huge numbers. Except SK's every 15 mins with HT. You don't like the big fluffy show? Then reroll and quit wasting our time with your self-pity and whining because you aren't "cool enough" or something.

[robusticus]

Ah, you got me, you baited me.  I said I was done here, but guess not.

You know, the title of the thread is "Paladins really do suck."... I suppose you expected something other than whining?

Actually, wasn't being bitter was just sharing agreement with the OP and what I had found as a solution to the problem.  Of course, they nerfed that solution pretty much right when I found it. 

Ultimately, it is the scrapping, clawing, working my butt off, dying many times to finally get to a point where I can say man, this is really cool, I am really awesome...only to have them nerf us somehow by some justification that is uncommunciated and completely arbitrary... its a bitter taste and I've had enough of it.  I wonder if other MMORGs have the nerf phenomenon? 

Look at what these people are saying right now... touting us as aggro managers... well, that was true and that was cool in DOF (sort of, not neccessarily the best strategy to pick the tank barely more survivable than a scout because they can get aggro huh?)... but what did they do?  they nerfed it.  Same thing now... crusaders are finding that they have a way to add consistent value to a group - who doesn't want extra dps? - and they found that and now they are cutting that in half.

I'm tired of people telling me what to be... we can be whatever we want... but whatever we do, invariably the nerf bat will hit us again so I don't really see a point any more.

[Leawyn]

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robusticus wrote:

Look at what these people are saying right now... touting us as aggro managers... well, that was true and that was cool in DOF (sort of, not neccessarily the best strategy to pick the tank barely more survivable than a scout because they can get aggro huh?)...

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I dunno why you are having such an issue with your survivability. I can survive MUCH LONGER than a scout. Maybe you are just having issues in playing the class correctly and that is where most of your problem lies. I hate to see such ugly remarks posted on a message board where people will walk by and say "Hrm... barely more survivable than a scout? Thats not good!" yes yes, i know, its the internet and not everything is true, but still, its unfair and disrespectful to spread such smut about a class that is an outstanding tank in nearly every situation.

The fact that you are having two major problems, holding agro and being able to tank, there are two possible answers here.

1) You are lying about being an "uber tank" and your gear really is about average if not less than average

2) You do not know how to play your class.

I'm not accusing you of everything, but the way you are crying, thats all I can come up with. Since there have been quite a few people who disagree with you, and very few who actually agree, I think the consensus is that we ARE good tanks and we DO hold agro very well. So maybe you need to look at yourself and quit blaming the class.

Message Edited by Leawyn on 04-04-200602:02 PM

[robusticus]

Oh, come on, I thought we were commiserating here.  Y'know, like a flying bucketheaders unite type of thing.

Never once said I was an uber tank quite the contrary and my gear, aside from the groovy buckethead and a few other exceptions, is well below average.

We're pretty decent tanks, when we try to be.  And I never said I couldn't hold aggro.  Just pointing out that is no longer a reason to differentiate between the tanks.

You know, you're making me feel real bad because I want to pick the crit chances instead of divine aura and solid saddle... like I'm letting my friends down by wanting a more exciting toon.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-04-200610:05 PM

[Wargod1968]

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robusticus wrote:

Oh, come on, I thought we were commiserating here.  Y'know, like a flying bucketheaders unite type of thing.

IMO, the only thing that sucks about being a pally is that flying buckethead

Never once said I was an uber tank quite the contrary and my gear, aside from the groovy buckethead and a few other exceptions, is well below average.

Might be part of the problem. If you can upgrade, you might find better results?

We're pretty decent tanks, when we try to be.  And I never said I couldn't hold aggro.  Just pointing out that is no longer a reason to differentiate between the tanks.

For tanking purposes, I'd agree - there should be little general reason to differentiate. I think that's how the devs have professed to orient the classes. Specifically, one might pick one over the other (such as Pallys vs. spell-casting or charming mobs), however.

You know, you're making me feel real bad because I want to pick the crit chances instead of divine aura and solid saddle... like I'm letting my friends down by wanting a more exciting toon.

Crit chance at 100% was going to be reduced, it was obvious from the start I think. 68% is still very high, and is going to still contribute nicely to dps. If your friends won't let you choose the AAs that make you happy, are they really friends? No AA is going to upset the apple cart as far as your ability to tank. Level 60s were tanking fine w/o AAs before KoS, remember.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-04-200610:05 PM

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Try and enjoy your pally.

[Leawyn]

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robusticus wrote:

Oh, come on, I thought we were commiserating here.  Y'know, like a flying bucketheaders unite type of thing.

Never once said I was an uber tank quite the contrary and my gear, aside from the groovy buckethead and a few other exceptions, is well below average.

We're pretty decent tanks, when we try to be.  And I never said I couldn't hold aggro.  Just pointing out that is no longer a reason to differentiate between the tanks.

You know, you're making me feel real bad because I want to pick the crit chances instead of divine aura and solid saddle... like I'm letting my friends down by wanting a more exciting toon.

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-04-200610:05 PM

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I never told you what AA's to pick. I'm a firm believer that everyone should pick what they want. Heck, I don't even want DA myself. But if someone wants it, more power to them. Your comments about pallies abilities have been nothing but negative, and now you're getting all up in arms because I called you on it. I will never understand why people continue to play a class that doesn't excite them.

[robusticus]

I want DA, but I can't have it, unless I accept the latest nerf - halving critical chance on dmg spells.

Come back and speak to me when you have 10 more AA points and then maybe you will understand.  It may be true I can be overly sarcastic and class-depreciating when I mean otherwise, but you haven't earned the right to call me on anything, at this point, young learner.  You CERTAINLY have not earned the right to be rude to me.   Especially when I am trying to be fair and nice.

This is all about discussing things trying to find out what choices best suit us each as individuals.  I'm sorry you fail to understand that.

[Leawyn]

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robusticus wrote:

I want DA, but I can't have it, unless I accept the latest nerf - halving critical chance on dmg spells.It wasn't halved, it was cut by 1/3. I fail to see how one relates to the other, though.

Come back and speak to me when you have 10 more AA points and then maybe you will understand. What does my AA count have to do with anything? I have 15, and I have a set course for what I want to get. It changes sometimes, and may change again in the future, but again, i fail to see how my AA counts relate to my understanding.

It may be true I can be overly sarcastic and class-depreciating when I mean otherwise, but you haven't earned the right to call me on anything, at this point, young learner.  You CERTAINLY have not earned the right to be rude to me.   Especially when I am trying to be fair and nice.Pardon me. I was just wondering why you were always so negative, if it was part of your nature or you are just really really bitter about pallies or your lack of ability or whatever it is that makes you such a ... plesant person.

This is all about discussing things trying to find out what choices best suit us each as individuals.  I'm sorry you fail to understand that.No, actually this discussion had to do with the "flair" of pallies, not with AA's. You've been negative and whiney in almost every post, so I was just wondering why you continue to play a pally if its obviously such a pain in your butt.

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[robusticus]

I will forgive you.  But please address me as Master Legionairre in all future correspondence.

I refrain from positivity because I can't stand the irony of the nerf factor.

I heard there was a cap of 50 on the AA points, and it is getting ridiculously expensive to change them.  So I'm trying to figure out where I end up in the grand scheme of things, with saving one last change for whatever my raid role will be when that time comes.

[thial]

Somebody said they wanted to see SS of an uber pally. well this pally here is uber compared to every outher paly I have seen on my server. When it comes down to it though even with the best gear/stats it comes down to the skill of the player.....timing taunts wards heals and CA's wothout goin oop....

[Uccel]

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robusticus wrote:

Hahah!  We hold aggro better than guards?  Where you been?  If you have a guard in your group and are tanking the only way to hold aggro is to put amends on them.  If you have a guard with a warlock, every other encounter aggro will bounce to the warlock that way.  So you put amends on the warlock and the guard tanks anyway, at least one mob.   When a guard is tanking aggro never slips... under any circumstance.  No, my friend, we are way behind in aggro management, at this point.  We used to be the best for aggro but that's not the case any longer.

Not trying to trip anyone up here if they're trying to tank... but let's be realistic about it, there are other options for us... if you want to continue fighting the good fight, by all means... I just think we need ALOT of help from SOE to be able to tank the tougher mobs... and somehow I don't think we're gonna get that help, especially if half of us continue to say nothing is wrong. And also especially if some of us come on here bragging about tanking HOF without a healer... whatever.

I just agree with the OP... plate tanking is dull and we are half tanks in comparison to guards who are serious about tanking.  Plus the gear... dunno, i've spent countless hours trying to get decent T7 plate and have got nada, zero, zilch, except for the goosehead, which is a quest reward.  And the FT gear being mostly made for non-tanks doesn't help either.  I love how people always point out gear as part of the answer.  What does it take these days to pull the GodKing down?

Message Edited by robusticus on 04-03-200608:26 AM

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My main character is a Warlock.That being said, ive never felt safer than when behind a paladin. Even if amends isnt on me, any half competant paladin can keep aggro, and keep it well.Ive been so impressed with them, thats the tank ive chosen to play. Sofar, i have yet to have any aggro issues (mastered all my taunts, but still), save ONE time when i was tanking orange mobs and the rest of the group was orange to me (so resisted taunts, and they were landing blows fine).I personally love paladins as tanks, and would choose one over a guardian for grouping any day of the week.Oh, im not in a raiding guild, so i dont know how it fares there. Seems our Advancement Abilities in the stamina line would be rather helpful.

[robusticus]

Dunno, people talk about aggro, but my perspective is, pre Live Nerf13 it was a fun challenge, especially with a warlock, many times reverting to wards as the only way to get aggro back and/or keep the warlock alive.

After Live Nerf 13 aggro for paladins was a joke.  Toss amends on the highest DPS then AFK.

From there it seems like its gone downhill.

There was the Amends nerf which I think had alot more impact then just the 2% because at that point rescue frequently became necessary, when before alot of us never used it.  During this time Sigil was broken, fixed, broken, fixed.

Now they've got it right I think, where any tank can choose to have good aggro via the AA tree and there really isn't any difference aggro wise, never should've been.  As I pointed out, being OT with armament up, in healer slippers with INT jacked through the roof was not a good combination with overpowered aggro abilitties. 

Nowadays, a guard (or any tank for that matter) with 8 AA points on hate generation is going to out-aggro everyone who does NOT have this ability.  And because of the long history of other tanks being poor for aggro, and paladins being overpowered for it, those tanks are alot more likely to choose that path than us.  Plus, I can't say for sure, but just from experience, I think they did something to guards inherently to improve their ability to grab and hold it, because they have improved a thousandfold with KOS and it's not all about that hate generation AA.

Apples to apples, pallies probably do better holding it against warlocks, conjurors, swashbucklers, etc... but only because our wide variety of AEs, which is only a slight advantage.

Don't think it matters too much any more, as I said, that is a good thing.  It is unfortunate that this game changes so often leaving people operating on premises that are no longer true.

[Asgardsfall]

An interesting stat you guys might be interestied in .... from EQ2 Players.

I recently betrayed my good Pally on 30 March 2006

Level 19 - last as pally  Server Rank 149 .... Workwide Rank 4121 (Is that right???? only 4121 Pallies above level 19 worldwide !!!

Level 20 - SK at last .. the drudgery is over  Server Rank 1120 ... Worldwide Rank 33172

Kinda says it all really ... doncha think?