Quick question

Torum · 03-10-2006, 08:03 AM

Where are the buffs and abilities pallys have that make them a desirable MT for T7 raids. Would appreciate people who actually MT raids info, having a tough time finding what make pallys anyones top choice....

Torum · 03-11-2006, 07:39 AM

Lol' I guess there are none. Would have been nice if SOE gave us the option like guards and zerkers in our AA lines to better set our pallys up to MT epic encounters. I guess its utility and dps for my toon, Funny I thought I was a tank:X

Deevaun · 03-11-2006, 08:38 PM

I can tell you this, I've gotten agro a lot from the T7 raid mobs, with only a Inq as a healer and i've held my end of the bargain with tankage. Over 1k Ward plus Master Fervent Aid, Master Reverent Sacrament, plus Divine Aura, LoH, Divine Favor, and OMG go go Castiage get those Trauma dots off of me. With all that I can offer it gives my healer ti me to get those dots off me and heals a goin. Just ONE healer. However yes I did die a bit to mobs, but lag does come and go too. But seriously , level 68-70 x3 and x4, i was hangin in there. As a pally you can tank well, I was complimented on how well i did too, and I think they were second guessing themselves on pals as well, as the zerker was having issues with agro until they put a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in his group for hate transfer. Just imagine, i've already got 25 points in Stamina, i'm gonna go str now and max out my hate buff then max out my health, seriously, i'mg onna be a hate machine with that hate bonus.

Oh, and with a Inquisitor as my healer, I had around 9500 hps, i think thats pretty sweet.

FieryFurnace · 03-11-2006, 09:21 PM

Your buffs for MT t7 mobs are built in to your class. Paladins have high magic and devine resists, any mob specializing in these 2 damage types is our bread and butter. Also know that several guilds have you used a Paladin as MT for every raid they do. Paladins are more than capable of being the MT in any zone against any mob.

Sirlutt · 03-14-2006, 03:24 AM

FieryFurnace wrote:
Your buffs for MT t7 mobs are built in to your class. Paladins have high magic and devine resists, any mob specializing in these 2 damage types is our bread and butter. Also know that several guilds have you used a Paladin as MT for every raid they do. Paladins are more than capable of being the MT in any zone against any mob.

how does that stack up with the extra mit/def/parry that serkers get though ?.. the increased resists is ok, but its not gonna help in about 90% of the raids. Pally's got the shaft with AA's, looks like its back to Guards/Zerkers being the preferred T7 MT.

Anzak · 03-14-2006, 03:35 AM

Assuming we see mobs that more than 50% damage in a single resist we could have a nitch role there.Also I'm not counting out fearless as being a very important AA to give us a nitch role on certain mobs as well.

Rocksthemic · 03-15-2006, 02:04 AM

Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest

dozier · 03-15-2006, 02:27 AM

Rocksthemic wrote:Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest

Foreman Ytalzak in Gates of Ahket Aken comes to mind. During the encounter he periodically chooses a random person, yells "DIE! soandso" and strikes you with a divine bolt which normally kills anyone instantly. I survived SMILEY

Anzak · 03-15-2006, 03:50 AM

dozier77 wrote:
Rocksthemic wrote:Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest
Foreman Ytalzak in Gates of Ahket Aken comes to mind. During the encounter he periodically chooses a random person, yells "DIE! soandso" and strikes you with a divine bolt which normally kills anyone instantly. I survived

But his main damage is still Melee based. Actually more than 80% of his damage is melee if I remember.There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage.

Torum · 03-15-2006, 04:02 AM

I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate.

I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there.

Dont mean to complain but seems like we should...

Anzak · 03-15-2006, 07:54 AM

Torum76 wrote:
I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate.
I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there.
Dont mean to complain but seems like we should...

Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists.

Sirlutt · 03-15-2006, 10:35 PM

Anzak wrote:
Torum76 wrote:
I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate.
I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there.
Dont mean to complain but seems like we should...
Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists.

and you'll hit the same cap everyone else does.. your extra stuff just means you'll hit it first..but the other classes can certainly hit it too with the right group and equipment.

Anzak · 03-16-2006, 01:47 AM

Sirlutt wrote:
Anzak wrote:
Torum76 wrote:
I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate.
I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there.
Dont mean to complain but seems like we should...
Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists.
and you'll hit the same cap everyone else does.. your extra stuff just means you'll hit it first..but the other classes can certainly hit it too with the right group and equipment.

Sure I can hit the 80% cap for my level no problem. But when the mob is 8 levels higher not only is the resist cap higher. But also the mob ignores some of that resist so you need a lot more. Too bad there is no way to know where that cap is. But I would guess it is double or more from where you see the 80% cap for your level. So when you see a Guard with 10K Divine resist then there is a problem.

Kale · 03-16-2006, 02:05 AM

Anzak wrote:There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage.

That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs? Who cares who the "tank of choice" is? I could give a rat's behind. I just want to know that my class can do it. That's good enough for me.It's clear that Paladins will never be the "tank of choice" for raid mobs. Big deal. As long as we can get the job done that's all that really matters.

FieryFurnace · 03-16-2006, 02:46 AM

I have been the MT in Court of Al'Afaz, Gates of AA, and PPtR. Paladins are more than capable of being MT against any mob, period.

Caetrel · 03-16-2006, 08:28 PM

That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs?
Absolutely, without a doubt.

Anzak · 03-16-2006, 09:34 PM

Kalera wrote:
Anzak wrote:There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage.
That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs? Who cares who the "tank of choice" is? I could give a rat's behind. I just want to know that my class can do it. That's good enough for me.It's clear that Paladins will never be the "tank of choice" for raid mobs. Big deal. As long as we can get the job done that's all that really matters.

I disagree here. If you are in a guild with a guard who has about equal gear and skill to you. Then other than your guild being good and giving you the option to tank things why would they ever want you to tank over the guard? Often times it is about what will give you the best chance to win and the guard will do that 100% of the time. There needs to be times when this is not true and a pally is the best chance to win. While I'm lucky in the respect that my guild lets me tank a fair amount (though our guard has out leveled me because I had to take a week off) But if we have a tough mob we are trying to get past I fear he will be picked to tank it over me because he is better suited to handle tanking raid mobs. That is the issue and that is the battle I will keep fighting. SOE stated we are Teir 1 Tanks which means we should be equal in tanking to Guards and should have time when we are better than they are.

Torum · 03-17-2006, 07:58 AM

OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists.

I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks.

Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community...

Leawyn · 03-17-2006, 08:30 PM

Torum76 wrote:
OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists.
I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks.
Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community...

The main problem with your point of view is that if you take away being the "best tank" (that is debatable IMHO) from guard/zerk, they aren't left with much else. We took a trade off being a paladin. Yes, a trade off. We sacrifice some of our tanking ability to gain the ability to heal, ward, and rez. This whole game is about tradeoffs. "Pure" tanks trade off the ability to heal like "Pure" healers. "Pure" healers trade off the ability to DPS like "Pure" dps. and "Pure" dps trade off the ability to "Pure" tank. Its not that any of these classes CANT do those things, they just don't do it as effectively as a class that is considered "Pure" (which if you can't tell, i consider pure b s).Can Pallies tank raid mobs? Hell yeah we can! Can we do it effectively and efficently? Hell yeah we can! Can (and should) we do it as well or better than a similarly equipped guardian in MOST cases? No, probably not. In some cases, yeah, but to take away the tanking bonuses that guardian's get leaves them in an uncomfortable role of not knowing exactly what they should be doing.

Torum · 03-18-2006, 12:53 AM

We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility...

Anzak · 03-18-2006, 02:01 AM

Leawyn wrote:
Torum76 wrote:
OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists.
I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks.
Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community...
The main problem with your point of view is that if you take away being the "best tank" (that is debatable IMHO) from guard/zerk, they aren't left with much else. We took a trade off being a paladin. Yes, a trade off. We sacrifice some of our tanking ability to gain the ability to heal, ward, and rez. This whole game is about tradeoffs. "Pure" tanks trade off the ability to heal like "Pure" healers. "Pure" healers trade off the ability to DPS like "Pure" dps. and "Pure" dps trade off the ability to "Pure" tank. Its not that any of these classes CANT do those things, they just don't do it as effectively as a class that is considered "Pure" (which if you can't tell, i consider pure b s).Can Pallies tank raid mobs? Hell yeah we can! Can we do it effectively and efficently? Hell yeah we can! Can (and should) we do it as well or better than a similarly equipped guardian in MOST cases? No, probably not. In some cases, yeah, but to take away the tanking bonuses that guardian's get leaves them in an uncomfortable role of not knowing exactly what they should be doing.

I'm not asking to be a better tank than a guard. But SOE stated all fighters can tank and will be better in certain situations. Well show me a situation where a pally is a better choice? There isn't one. Plain and simple guards take Melee damage better and until there are mobs that do more damage in one of the resists then in melee then they will always be the best choice.The other thing here is that Zerkers get the warrior Mit buff as well. They are Tier 2 tanks per SOE and yet the Pally Teir 1 tanks do not get the bonus Mit that would be useful as raid tanks.That is the biggest issue here now only should all fighters have a time to shine as main raid tanks. But also that the Tier 1 tanks per SOE are Pallies and Guards and yet we don't even come close to them in tanking ability.As for giving up tanking ability for heals and wards that is just part of our utility. And Guards should be given more utility so they have a role on a raid other than MT.

Leawyn · 03-18-2006, 10:52 AM

Torum76 wrote:
We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility...

You obviously only chose to read half of what i said.Sorry for voicing my opinion. I forgot that your opinion counts for so much more. Please forgive me.Again, I repeat.... Pallys CAN and DO tank as effectively as guardians in many instances. But until you realize that by choosing a pally over a guardian, you MUST SACRIFICE SOMETHING. You simply cannot be the best tank, best dps, and have really nice heals too. Not saying that YOU PERSONALLY want all 3, but i've heard pallys complain about everything from weak heals, to weak dps, to weak tanking.

Anzak · 03-19-2006, 04:55 AM

Leawyn wrote:
Torum76 wrote:
We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility...
You obviously only chose to read half of what i said.Sorry for voicing my opinion. I forgot that your opinion counts for so much more. Please forgive me.Again, I repeat.... Pallys CAN and DO tank as effectively as guardians in many instances. But until you realize that by choosing a pally over a guardian, you MUST SACRIFICE SOMETHING. You simply cannot be the best tank, best dps, and have really nice heals too. Not saying that YOU PERSONALLY want all 3, but i've heard pallys complain about everything from weak heals, to weak dps, to weak tanking.

But what you are missing is that SOE has stated we are tier 1 tanks just like guards. And there should be times when Pallies are better. I don't want to be the best all the time. Just so that there are times when I would be desired over a guard.

03-11-2006, 09:21 PM	#4
FieryFurnace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	Your buffs for MT t7 mobs are built in to your class. Paladins have high magic and devine resists, any mob specializing in these 2 damage types is our bread and butter. Also know that several guilds have you used a Paladin as MT for every raid they do. Paladins are more than capable of being the MT in any zone against any mob. __________________ Rellron 70 Paladin (retired)

03-14-2006, 03:24 AM	#5
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	FieryFurnace wrote: Your buffs for MT t7 mobs are built in to your class. Paladins have high magic and devine resists, any mob specializing in these 2 damage types is our bread and butter. Also know that several guilds have you used a Paladin as MT for every raid they do. Paladins are more than capable of being the MT in any zone against any mob. how does that stack up with the extra mit/def/parry that serkers get though ?.. the increased resists is ok, but its not gonna help in about 90% of the raids. Pally's got the shaft with AA's, looks like its back to Guards/Zerkers being the preferred T7 MT. __________________ I heart DE Broads

03-15-2006, 02:04 AM	#7
Rocksthemic Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 213	Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest __________________

03-15-2006, 02:27 AM	#8
dozier Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 77	Rocksthemic wrote:Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest Foreman Ytalzak in Gates of Ahket Aken comes to mind. During the encounter he periodically chooses a random person, yells "DIE! soandso" and strikes you with a divine bolt which normally kills anyone instantly. I survived __________________ Rathaniel Ironshield - Lucan D'Lere 62 Barbarian Paladin Gold Dragon of Dragons Trinity

03-15-2006, 03:50 AM	#9
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	dozier77 wrote: Rocksthemic wrote:Well, guardians will be the best choice 9 times out of 10 for MT on raids. Especially if they go along the agility line, which gives them the equivalent of monks Tsunami skill. However the above poster is correct. If a mob does divine direct dmg, or if it uses peircing melee attack, then pally might be the best option. Also... divine aura for the win. As you raiders know, if you survive the first 30 seconds of any encounter and can stick those debuffs on, you generally have a MUCH higher chance of survival. It's all about surviving that first 30 seconds, and divine aura will help signifigantly with that.Thundaarr - 69 PaladinUnrest Foreman Ytalzak in Gates of Ahket Aken comes to mind. During the encounter he periodically chooses a random person, yells "DIE! soandso" and strikes you with a divine bolt which normally kills anyone instantly. I survived But his main damage is still Melee based. Actually more than 80% of his damage is melee if I remember.There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage.

03-10-2006, 08:03 AM	#1
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	Where are the buffs and abilities pallys have that make them a desirable MT for T7 raids. Would appreciate people who actually MT raids info, having a tough time finding what make pallys anyones top choice....

03-11-2006, 07:39 AM	#2
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	Lol' I guess there are none. Would have been nice if SOE gave us the option like guards and zerkers in our AA lines to better set our pallys up to MT epic encounters. I guess its utility and dps for my toon, Funny I thought I was a tank:X

03-11-2006, 08:38 PM	#3
Deevaun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	I can tell you this, I've gotten agro a lot from the T7 raid mobs, with only a Inq as a healer and i've held my end of the bargain with tankage. Over 1k Ward plus Master Fervent Aid, Master Reverent Sacrament, plus Divine Aura, LoH, Divine Favor, and OMG go go Castiage get those Trauma dots off of me. With all that I can offer it gives my healer ti me to get those dots off me and heals a goin. Just ONE healer. However yes I did die a bit to mobs, but lag does come and go too. But seriously , level 68-70 x3 and x4, i was hangin in there. As a pally you can tank well, I was complimented on how well i did too, and I think they were second guessing themselves on pals as well, as the zerker was having issues with agro until they put a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in his group for hate transfer. Just imagine, i've already got 25 points in Stamina, i'm gonna go str now and max out my hate buff then max out my health, seriously, i'mg onna be a hate machine with that hate bonus. Oh, and with a Inquisitor as my healer, I had around 9500 hps, i think thats pretty sweet.

03-14-2006, 03:35 AM	#6
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Assuming we see mobs that more than 50% damage in a single resist we could have a nitch role there.Also I'm not counting out fearless as being a very important AA to give us a nitch role on certain mobs as well.

03-15-2006, 04:02 AM	#10
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate. I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there. Dont mean to complain but seems like we should...

03-15-2006, 07:54 AM	#11
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Torum76 wrote: I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate. I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there. Dont mean to complain but seems like we should... Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists.

03-15-2006, 10:35 PM	#12
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Anzak wrote: Torum76 wrote: I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate. I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there. Dont mean to complain but seems like we should... Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists. and you'll hit the same cap everyone else does.. your extra stuff just means you'll hit it first..but the other classes can certainly hit it too with the right group and equipment. __________________ I heart DE Broads

03-16-2006, 01:47 AM	#13
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Sirlutt wrote: Anzak wrote: Torum76 wrote: I agree and disagree, I believe our resists to be sub par now, this new legendary armour has devine and magic gains for over 1500+. If a guard or zerker finds just 2 pieces our edge is pretty much out the door. Our wisdon AA line doesnt give us anything as impressive as the warrior agillity or wisdom line. Our agility line is a joke, really how much time do you spend on the Islands of KOS not much here I find them boring. Plus you need a mount, that is sad sence once we zone into an instant poof all gone. I know there is an island in bonemire where we might be able to use our agility line sence there are epics where we can ride our mount. I think its a waste of aa points though sence most of the game is instants. Our WIS line and INT line make me sick moslty adds dps to our group and makes us a better healer. If you check out the templar lines there almost Identicle. I think the devs were working on the pally AA lines on a friday and said hmmm nochos sound good lets just cut and paste.. Last but not least our STR which is what ill probably go with for the extra hate. I think we got the shaft and need to complain, need to stop assuming there is some content out there for our talents. Lol what mabey 1 zone out of the insane amount out there. Dont mean to complain but seems like we should... Given the same gear we have the advantage in not only Divine and Magic. But we also have an edge in WIS which gives all resists. Now they are still going to have heat/cold locked up depending on who you compair to but overall we are better off in resists. and you'll hit the same cap everyone else does.. your extra stuff just means you'll hit it first..but the other classes can certainly hit it too with the right group and equipment. Sure I can hit the 80% cap for my level no problem. But when the mob is 8 levels higher not only is the resist cap higher. But also the mob ignores some of that resist so you need a lot more. Too bad there is no way to know where that cap is. But I would guess it is double or more from where you see the 80% cap for your level. So when you see a Guard with 10K Divine resist then there is a problem.

03-16-2006, 02:05 AM	#14
Kale Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 222	Anzak wrote:There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage. That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs? Who cares who the "tank of choice" is? I could give a rat's behind. I just want to know that my class can do it. That's good enough for me.It's clear that Paladins will never be the "tank of choice" for raid mobs. Big deal. As long as we can get the job done that's all that really matters.

03-16-2006, 02:46 AM	#15
FieryFurnace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	I have been the MT in Court of Al'Afaz, Gates of AA, and PPtR. Paladins are more than capable of being MT against any mob, period. __________________ Rellron 70 Paladin (retired)

03-16-2006, 08:28 PM	#16
Caetrel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 427	That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs? Absolutely, without a doubt. __________________ Fidelus Raid Leader Survivors Guk

03-16-2006, 09:34 PM	#17
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Kalera wrote: Anzak wrote:There are plenty of mobs that have massive divine attacks that is not the point. The point is I have not seen a single mob that under normal parsing has done more than 50% damage in anything other than melee. That makes Guards the tank of Choice since they are the best at Melee damage. That is not the point. The point is - can we tank raid mobs? Who cares who the "tank of choice" is? I could give a rat's behind. I just want to know that my class can do it. That's good enough for me.It's clear that Paladins will never be the "tank of choice" for raid mobs. Big deal. As long as we can get the job done that's all that really matters. I disagree here. If you are in a guild with a guard who has about equal gear and skill to you. Then other than your guild being good and giving you the option to tank things why would they ever want you to tank over the guard? Often times it is about what will give you the best chance to win and the guard will do that 100% of the time. There needs to be times when this is not true and a pally is the best chance to win. While I'm lucky in the respect that my guild lets me tank a fair amount (though our guard has out leveled me because I had to take a week off) But if we have a tough mob we are trying to get past I fear he will be picked to tank it over me because he is better suited to handle tanking raid mobs. That is the issue and that is the battle I will keep fighting. SOE stated we are Teir 1 Tanks which means we should be equal in tanking to Guards and should have time when we are better than they are.

03-17-2006, 07:58 AM	#18
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists. I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks. Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community...

03-17-2006, 08:30 PM	#19
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	Torum76 wrote: OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists. I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks. Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community... The main problem with your point of view is that if you take away being the "best tank" (that is debatable IMHO) from guard/zerk, they aren't left with much else. We took a trade off being a paladin. Yes, a trade off. We sacrifice some of our tanking ability to gain the ability to heal, ward, and rez. This whole game is about tradeoffs. "Pure" tanks trade off the ability to heal like "Pure" healers. "Pure" healers trade off the ability to DPS like "Pure" dps. and "Pure" dps trade off the ability to "Pure" tank. Its not that any of these classes CANT do those things, they just don't do it as effectively as a class that is considered "Pure" (which if you can't tell, i consider pure b s).Can Pallies tank raid mobs? Hell yeah we can! Can we do it effectively and efficently? Hell yeah we can! Can (and should) we do it as well or better than a similarly equipped guardian in MOST cases? No, probably not. In some cases, yeah, but to take away the tanking bonuses that guardian's get leaves them in an uncomfortable role of not knowing exactly what they should be doing. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

03-18-2006, 12:53 AM	#20
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility...

03-18-2006, 02:01 AM	#21
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Leawyn wrote: Torum76 wrote: OMG finally someone who shares my opinon, its not that we cant and I have also MT all the t6 content. The point is why would we if we are completely out classesd in advoidance, mitigation and also with the right group and gear, resists. Other then holding agro like a champ pallys bring nothing to the table in the means of a MT for epic mobs. Why would you have a pally MT when a guard or zerker can make the epic miss more and mitigate damage better. Oh we have resists, I say bah with the right gear and group make up a guard now with t7 legendary can also have great resists. I think pallys are to deverse we have AA lines that make us better dps and utility but nothing really to make us better tanks. Sadly fellow pallys who agree with me I believe we are in a losing battle we dont even have the support of the pally community... The main problem with your point of view is that if you take away being the "best tank" (that is debatable IMHO) from guard/zerk, they aren't left with much else. We took a trade off being a paladin. Yes, a trade off. We sacrifice some of our tanking ability to gain the ability to heal, ward, and rez. This whole game is about tradeoffs. "Pure" tanks trade off the ability to heal like "Pure" healers. "Pure" healers trade off the ability to DPS like "Pure" dps. and "Pure" dps trade off the ability to "Pure" tank. Its not that any of these classes CANT do those things, they just don't do it as effectively as a class that is considered "Pure" (which if you can't tell, i consider pure b s).Can Pallies tank raid mobs? Hell yeah we can! Can we do it effectively and efficently? Hell yeah we can! Can (and should) we do it as well or better than a similarly equipped guardian in MOST cases? No, probably not. In some cases, yeah, but to take away the tanking bonuses that guardian's get leaves them in an uncomfortable role of not knowing exactly what they should be doing. I'm not asking to be a better tank than a guard. But SOE stated all fighters can tank and will be better in certain situations. Well show me a situation where a pally is a better choice? There isn't one. Plain and simple guards take Melee damage better and until there are mobs that do more damage in one of the resists then in melee then they will always be the best choice.The other thing here is that Zerkers get the warrior Mit buff as well. They are Tier 2 tanks per SOE and yet the Pally Teir 1 tanks do not get the bonus Mit that would be useful as raid tanks.That is the biggest issue here now only should all fighters have a time to shine as main raid tanks. But also that the Tier 1 tanks per SOE are Pallies and Guards and yet we don't even come close to them in tanking ability.As for giving up tanking ability for heals and wards that is just part of our utility. And Guards should be given more utility so they have a role on a raid other than MT.

03-18-2006, 10:52 AM	#22
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	Torum76 wrote: We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility... You obviously only chose to read half of what i said.Sorry for voicing my opinion. I forgot that your opinion counts for so much more. Please forgive me.Again, I repeat.... Pallys CAN and DO tank as effectively as guardians in many instances. But until you realize that by choosing a pally over a guardian, you MUST SACRIFICE SOMETHING. You simply cannot be the best tank, best dps, and have really nice heals too. Not saying that YOU PERSONALLY want all 3, but i've heard pallys complain about everything from weak heals, to weak dps, to weak tanking. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

03-19-2006, 04:55 AM	#23
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Leawyn wrote: Torum76 wrote: We took a trade off because we can rez/ward/heal, ummm we once again are tanks and the trade of well kind of sucks. In know way do our heals and wards benifit us the same way a guards/zerkers extra advoidance and mit does. Mabey you like being a rez monkey or a [Removed for Content] back up healer but some of us pallys do not. Oh yeah zerkers have insane dps by the way so with a nice pair of duel wield weapons they are far from useless and the same with guards, Plus they can both hand off some nice defensive buffs. The point of the AA line was to make a toon better for each endividuals style of play. For the pallys who enjoys the high end or MTing raids we had no choice. Lol man Im working on a guardian Im so sick and tired of the utility pallys alway throwing there 2 sence in. Whats the worse that can happen the devs give us less heals and our ward is replaced with a mit buff or becomes a ward over time. Seems like some pallys are content with being the [Removed for Content] healer/rez bot. I made a tank not Utility... You obviously only chose to read half of what i said.Sorry for voicing my opinion. I forgot that your opinion counts for so much more. Please forgive me.Again, I repeat.... Pallys CAN and DO tank as effectively as guardians in many instances. But until you realize that by choosing a pally over a guardian, you MUST SACRIFICE SOMETHING. You simply cannot be the best tank, best dps, and have really nice heals too. Not saying that YOU PERSONALLY want all 3, but i've heard pallys complain about everything from weak heals, to weak dps, to weak tanking. But what you are missing is that SOE has stated we are tier 1 tanks just like guards. And there should be times when Pallies are better. I don't want to be the best all the time. Just so that there are times when I would be desired over a guard.