OMG OMG OMG...... I CAN TANK AND HOLD AGGRO .......OMG OMG OMG

[mark9999]

I have read some posts about people haveing trouble holding aggro on multiple encounters........remember our taunts are wayyyyy better now use your encounter taunt sparingly and save it for adds......it doesn't matter what class you are if a grp of adds come and a healers is casting heals debuffs or warding like crazy they are going to goto them and it is going to take a couple taunts to pull them off. Also with the crazy new dps the upgrade to redemption....don't remeber what it is......is very usefull just keep a target targeted and whoemever something is on cast it on the and taunt and it will come off unless they are not playing tank freindly....doesn't help when a healer gets aggro and they keep casting debuffs on it or a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] caster just keeps nuking and say ....why can't you pull it off me???

[Blambil]

 

With all due respect....

 

Read other posters, look at their specific examples, and go try it yourself.

 

The fact remains it's much harder (in what is appearing to be more and more by 'new' design) to get and hold aggro on multi-mob/multi-group encounters than it ever used to be.

 

Yes, you are correct, we have different tools than we used to for aggro generation. And there are some specific cases that you might see a small increase. But overall other classes generate far more hate than they used to, and we generate less, proportionally.

 

 

[drewacky]

I agree so far i haven't figured out how to keep agro well on group encounters.  espcially with a conjuror in group.  I don't know if it was just me but their pets pull a TON of agro now.  It's too early to really whine about anything but that' sjust something i've noticed so far.  still need to figure out if there's more agro out there we can generate heh

[Getty]

While I agree that other group members need to learn agro management now with new DPS, especially casters, my hubby tossed SP on me night before last and they were on him like white on rice.

 

No taunts worked, tossing ward on him, nor myself did anything, and for some reason, Intercede was only working 1/2 the time, even though he was showing an icon on his screen that he had it.

[Elikal]

The thread title is a bit... oversized, but totally true.

 

After the combat revamp I started soloing an entire day to try my spells and moves. All was about ok,
at least in DoF area. I haven't compared thoroughly with areas I previously did, but altogether I felt
as strong as before. (I have a Lv 49 Pally.)

The shock came when I started to join a group of 47-50 folks, Rangers, Furies a Monk. I was TOTALLY
unable to hold aggro for longer than a sec. The aggro started to swap to the Fury, even tho she had
done NOTHING yet! This happed all the time! It one or two arrow-shots from the ranger and the aggro
swapped away from me. Once the aggro was away in 99% if all fights I was unable to get it back to
me, no matter what I did.

My spells are all adept I or higher.

So I must say this is toally CRAP! I even told the others to wait 3 or 4 secs before they joined in, so I could
gather some aggro, but that helped none. It was very hard to fight enemies that changed their aims all 10 secs
so I had to run after then because they got out of range aAGAIN  AND AGAIN! This is very frustrating. My suggestion
is to lower the aggro generation of others and give some of our other spells back the hate generation (like the
ward spells, who once had it.) Fighting is a total mess, and I find my Paladin more re-defined into a healer now
because of this. This is NOT what I chose when I started my character!

[Kide]

Hello Everybody,

I really do not know why ervery one is whining. I play a level 50 Pally Lady on Valor (Germany). And I must say the little Lady rocks now. I hold aggro as I have never before. Even groupencounters with another group as add. Even our assasins and warlocks say they do not get it from me. I have all my spells on AP3 and not even master. I have the impression, that using our ward and stunning and interrupting the mobs is still gaining hate. In addition to that I first use my ward then go and get the group with our group taunt than do our two area attacks and then use clarion call. It works wonderful. Now I am a real maintank. Even though we have lost lots of our HPs you can compensate that by your stuns and interrupts. Ofcourse I am wearing ebon and fabled amor, however when I am in the right rythm I keep interrupting so I do not even get damage a lot. In my opinion the Pally is better then ever. And even soloing is not so bad in DOF. So please,all Pallies calm down. When I first logged in I was shocked because of our avoidance, HP and damage loss, but hey all classes have. However, I just emptied my toolbars completly and then started reading my spells, assorted them new and then went to Pillar of Flames with a mystic, warlock, brigand, illu and conjurer (all classes which normally get aggro instantly). I had no problem at all to hold aggro, everyone in the group was astonished and now I am asked from everyone in our guild to group with them beeing one of the MTs. This has never happened before, when a guard was nearby. I will say we are as good as guards in aggroholding now. And we have a lot more power than the other tanks, so we can cast our stunns and taunts well. In raids I would say we still be off-tank, because of our low HP, but I think we will still be very useful because of our new groupheal, our stuns and the new spell amend. You just have to change your taktiks now a bit and everything is fine. Try not to use all your changed spells in your old playstyle, that will not work. If I could change, you can do also.

 

Hugs Kideli the little woodelf Paladine

Message Edited by Kideli on 09-16-2005 01:43 AM

Message Edited by Kideli on 09-16-2005 01:45 AM

[Pathin Merrithay]

Keep practicing. Since I've been watching House and I'm in a sardonic, somewhat blunt mood this morning...

Paladins can hold agro, and hold agro well, even in multiple group encounters.

I can do it.

Several other posters at various levels can do it.

Logic thus dictates that any Pally (of my approximate level at very least) can manage it. It's just about making they key adjustments to when you cast spells, when you ward, and who to slap your hate stealing spells on. Play around, work on it, you'll get the hang of it. It hasn't even been a week yet.

[Quinan Bellatrix]

Practice with your new tools a bit.  I am now having a much easier time holding group encounter aggro than I was before.  It generally was not a problem for me pre-patch, but now I find it that much easier.

 

Some advice:  The Redemption line is now very useful, cast it on the person who seems to be giving you the most trouble.  One of the best skill upgrades from LU13 I so far have noticed is actually Rescue.  With 3 hate jumps and 2200 hate automatically at level 50, everytime I lost aggro I got it back immediately with a cast.  If you have a jasper in your bank, I'd get this Adept 3 right away .  Throw some of those nifty new wards on yourself, occasional heal / group heal if warranted and I bet you might see a difference in your aggro.

 

All that said, there are some classes with some real nasty aggro pulling abilities now.  Warlock AoEs are great for DPS but boy they can be a challenge to hold against if they spring it too early.   The class I have had the most problem with thus far is Conjurors with their scout pet, but I have not had a problem with healing aggro from priests (even Shammies) so far.  It is everyone in the group's responsibility to maintain aggro, always was and always will be.

 

The only problem for me so far have been power issues.  Not sure if I have just twitchy fingers now and overcasting, but I seem to see less blue at the end of fights than before.  I took all STA and HP traits for the auto respec.  That said, I was chain pulling with a guild group in CT last night on blue and white heroic encounters and lost aggro only a few times (Rescue!) and much of that because me and the Conjuror in the group were testing aggro and how far we could push it.

 

Stick with it, and try some things you may not have thought of in the past.  Good luck.

 

 

[djhbeek]

---

Blambil wrote:

 

With all due respect....

 

Read other posters, look at their specific examples, and go try it yourself.

 

The fact remains it's much harder (in what is appearing to be more and more by 'new' design) to get and hold aggro on multi-mob/multi-group encounters than it ever used to be.

 

Yes, you are correct, we have different tools than we used to for aggro generation. And there are some specific cases that you might see a small increase. But overall other classes generate far more hate than they used to, and we generate less, proportionally.

 

 

---

FWIW its worth.  He HAS tried it, and he holds agro very well (I group with him).

[Nurta]

Guys I was feeling the SAME way until last night.  I got amends upgraded to adept3 and Zealous Preaching upgraded to adept3, you would not believe the difference it is literally night and day.  Every paladin should upgrade Amends ASAP, that is one spell I will not leave home without.  After last night I had ZERO issues maintaing, holding, or peeling agro off anyone in my group.

Understand however, that some of the playstyle has to come from other players.  Classes like rangers have evasion spells that lower their hate.  IF they are just going all out their idiots or haven't learned enough about the changes.  But even with my ranger last night going all out on attacks he didn't take agro from me.  41% on adept3 amends is a total lifesaver.  Good luck, but keep reading these forums the information I gained here improved me overnight.

[djhbeek]

I shall be talking to the guild alchemist tonight!

[mark9999]

I don't see what the problem is with multiple encouter aggro i have had no problems i don't know if you know this or not but if you let mobs aggro someone else before you it is harder to pull them off....sooo....wake up tell people to assist a dps in your grp and grab adds before they jump your healer and you die.

P.S. wards are major aggro now so put amends on the healer that is using them. also with amends when you have a mob targeted you can click it on and off it has no re-cast timer so whomever a mob is on you can cast it on imiediatly and bring aggro under control.

[Taipans]

Hey guys, Im a 50 pally and last night in the desert tanking in a raid I was having alot of problems holding aggro. We had 2 conjurers, there pets would take aggro from me which was an instant death wish for their owners. I piled on everything I had and managed to save one with rescue, but as soon as their pets die the mob turns on them and WHAM they die in 2 hits.

 

I need some advice - Which spells are you guys piling on hate with? And do they stack if you spam them? I basiclly just stand there spamming every hate spell I have but was never sure if they stack!?

 

Also in regards to new armor, what is the best armor available for our class now? Is Ebon still the top or can I get some newer metal stuff?

 

 

Thanks alot!

 

~Taipans~

[djhbeek]

Clarion Call, Zealous Preaching, and Courageous Dash all stack with each other, along with Amends, etc.

[Elikal]

I don't why EVERY friggingtime someone has a problem a dozen people jump up
saying "I don't have that problem"!. I mean, if someone has been hit by a car, and
the ambulance comes, do you jump at the doctors and tell them not to care for
him, because you have crossed the street safely??

 

Honestly, it does not interest me a bit that you hold the aggro, becaus thats not
helping me a dam_n bit! I held aggro ALWAYS before the update and now I don't,
so I can't be *that* stupid. And YES I KNOW amends and I use it.

 

IT DOES NOT HELP ME. Maybe you should not group with folks 10 levels
below you... I really grow tired that ALWAYS some fanbois jump in, whenver
someone critizises a part of the game and defends it merely for the sake
of defending. Ever heard the word Zealot before?

 

Anyway, there can be no doubt that loosing all secondary and tertiary abilities
of the spells is s_hit and took a lot of variety and abiity away. The grouping
feels far too much like a grind now, and I am not the only person here who
experiences this.

 

I really believe in the idea of "never change a running system", and the combat in
Eq2 before wasn't perfect but quite good. Besides smaller problems all classes

were pretty content. As nice as DoF is, I feel this combat revamp is a shot in
the knees of SOE and I guess if they don't change it, and SOON, they'll sink
faster than the Titanic did.

[Kendricke]

---

Elikal wrote:

I don't why EVERY friggingtime someone has a problem a dozen people jump up
saying "I don't have that problem"!. I mean, if someone has been hit by a car, and
the ambulance comes, do you jump at the doctors and tell them not to care for
him, because you have crossed the street safely??

---

That's quite the straw man there.

We aren't discussing actual issues here for individuals.  The discussion is whether or not an entire class is broken, and you seem to be arguing that it's ok to base that overall opinion on individual results.

The very fact that paladins at various levels and equipment levels are handling the issue just fine indicates that it's not a universal issue.  Therefore, it's not a class issue, but an individual issue. 

This sounds suspiciously like the Splitpaw Champion issues we'd all hear about right after release of the Splitpaw Saga.  There were wolf-criers left and right calling foul on the Champion, claiming he was unbeatable by class X at level Y...then someone from class X at level Y would come forward and say, "I just beat him, though, so it's not impossible". 

 

[Nurta]

well not just that but....

I take offense to you saying we are all jumping on people.  If you go back and *read* my post you will see that I said I too had similar issues until last night when I upgraded some key abilities and found a tactic to employ so that I would gain maximum results from my group. 

I have aquired much info from these forums and instead of just saying OMG I'm broken, I listen to the other people's replies and then actually try what they suggest.  It is indeed VERY possible to hold agro.  Please read the suggestions others have made in this forum on this topic and try to employ them.  Please do not make broad and general assumptions about everyone here, from what I have found in this forum for the most part, people are genuinely trying to help and answer questions.

[Maxym]

I held argo great before the patch, but with some adjustment I am doing just as good if not better at pulling argo off of others, before it was harder to do that.

Last night we had a 5 person group in the hideout me - 42 pally, 41 assasin, 36 ranger, 37 fury & 50 mentored to 42 chanter, took the heroic path. I found that with Shining beacon up, casting atonement on our only healer the 37 fury & throwing in an occational intercede I not only held argo I pulled it off of others without issue. Only other Tank type in the group was the 41 assasin she did die once when we where jumped by 2 ^^^'s, while engadged with a reg group. This was a pick up group mind you & not a guild thing so I think its just a matter of who you group with & everyone knowing thier new chars limits & abilities now.

I will say I had fun with all the ^^^'s much harder then before the patch but still got nice exp, that no doubt do to the exp bonus right now though...

P.S. with pets now Coercer's rock!

[Mgunner]

I have no problems at level 50. It's a lot easier now than before. I even have a wizard with all master spells and I'm still able to hold agro. The people who are having issues need to play around a little more and examine all their spells a little closer or upgrade them. You have to upgrade the spells, period. If you using Adept 1's still, consider upgrading them.

[Bardi]

yay i can hold argo on groups I tank alll day in The Living Tombs, just cant get argoo on anything 54 or ^^^ thayresist (adept3)

[Gornd]

Amends adp3 takes reduces someones aggro by 41% and gives it to you. Clarion Call and Zealous Preaching should definetly be upgraded. Display of Devotion (ward) at adp3 will give you approx 615 threat (same as clarion call), plus it reduces the dps you take. Direct heals also give threat to you, but I forget what my adept3 heals for.  I believe, but I could be wrong, that the threat gained is a 1:1 ratio on the heal. Same applies for group heals. I've yet to test accuratly if group buffs play any part in aggro generation. The only problem I've had with aggro is when the mobs in the new expansion constantly stun me.  This is my biggest pet peeve of the expansion right now. Also, we tried a few raids last night (spawned a 57x4 Griffon of the Blades in Majdul), tried Rognog (fish are bugged, dont go in there), and Spirit of Vox.  I was able to hold aggro perfectly fine for the 10seconds I lived =).  Spirit of Vox used to be a mob we could do with 9-12 people... now she hits me for 1/2 my raid HP.  Healers can't keep up with it at the moment.  However, don't call the sky is falling based on this.  Not only are we all semi noobs again but lots of our new raid spells need to be upgraded, and tactics adjusted. Gorndax Leader of Legacy Unrest

[Pent]

You people are messed up.  If you wanted to tank so bad, why didn't you idiots choose Guardian for your char

[Paladin776]

---

Pentom wrote:You people are messed up.  If you wanted to tank so bad, why didn't you idiots choose Guardian for your char

---

Because we have better wisdom to know not to play a button mashing meathead, instead choosing the Path of Light and Honor, something a Guardian will never know and especially never be able to comprehend.However, getting back on track.....Has anyone noticed this happening?I was in Sinking Sands with my Warden friend the other night, doing quests and generally getting into trouble as much as possible. I had my defensive stance running, the WIS buff, Call to Glory, and on the Warden I had Aegis of Hope and Atonement. Now, seeing as how the Warden is a. level 50 and b. hardly ever communicates her intentions over chat, (as an example) she would make for a Rujarkan camp (for the Court of Blades quest series) and just as she would get into aggro range...They would all turn and come after ME! You know, I don't mind her pulling, because for a Warden, she does pretty well....But, jeez, when I pull, I get beat on....when she pulls, I get beat on. Where's the justice here?

[Darki]

I <3 Amends Adept 3,  and so does any dps I group with.  Wizards/Warlocks with Master 1 nukes can't pull aggro.  If anyone with Amends on them proxy aggros anything it comes running stright to me. I must say, I'm holding aggro better than I ever have before.

[Caetrel]

Amends Adept III 4tw.  I hold aggro way better than before, partly because od that spell, and partly because of the super quick casts on taunts to grab early aggro and any proxy.  I just got out today for my first serious grouping in Scornfeather Roost and another instance in Clefts.  Necro, Wizard, and mystic in party and no problems.  AOEs are good for early aggro too.  All in all, it takes way less power to control aggro than before, which means you keep the power to hold on. Amends is so good I put it on our Wizzie and said go nuts and he did.  No prob. Our stuns kick much [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] btw.  Look forward to our next raid to see what sort of perma stun our 4 Crusaders can come up with.

[Amistead]

Okay, to the original poster.  My main toon is a twinked out Warlock-> no skill less than adept3.  Our guild pally was able to hold aggro, after quite a few adjustments, while I was putting out 350+ dps on single targets.  One thing to note was that while he used to be the power hog, and we had to wait on him to regen power, Warlocks get to wear that cap now.  So from an outsiders perspective, Pally power consumption is drastically improved.

  The xp spot we picked had numerous 56^^^ heroic singles, with occasional pops of 55^^ groups of five.  Without using Amends, he could not hold aggro if I put out any serious dps.  However, when he switched over to using Amends, I progressively cranked up my dps.  By the time we left three hours later, I had improved my casting sequence to the point that I was consistently putting out 350-440 on singles, and NEVER peeling.

   On the grouped mobs, that took a bit more finesse.  It was simply not possible for me to spam AOEs.  FYI: warlock aoes 2800ish 1600ish 1100ish 900ish.  However, with some discretion, I was able to put out 1000dps by timing the aoes.  It is my feeling that with some more work, we could have done more.

  So, the moral is, pallies can definitely hold aggro while some serious dps is being put out.  If you guys like, I can ask for more info on spell sequences/upgrade levels. 

Cheers! (BTW, I love reading the pally boards.  You guys/gals are actually friendly and helpful.  Can I be an honorary paladin? Or at least 41% of one?)

 

Alezara

Warlock of the 50th Order

-=Pandemonium/Unrest=-

 

[Chia_Pet]

Well, at lvl 30 im having an more difficult time holding aggro then i did before this patch, and im whackin em with everything i got, both damage and tauntwise. rescue works well...every 15 minutes or whatever...ack. I dunno, before the patch i was awesome at holding aggro and taking a beating, now i suck at holding aggro, but i do seem to take the hits even better. I dunno what im doing wrong... you 50's might be doing ok, but what about us youngins?

[Doylen]

All I can say Use the [faarbotted] Redemption line on the person that usually grabs the most aggro example; Ranger, Wizard, Warlock or Mystics atm with their wards and stuff. I have NEVER lost aggro unless I was trying to. Not even to a fabled, mastered/adept3ed out ranger going all out. WE CAN HOLD AGGRO! My amends is adept 3 And sometimes if I forget to remove amends I actually grab aggro by accident.

Message Edited by Doylen on 09-19-2005 01:25 PM

[Nurta]

---

Paladin776 wrote:

However, getting back on track.....Has anyone noticed this happening?

I was in Sinking Sands with my Warden friend the other night, doing quests and generally getting into trouble as much as possible. I had my defensive stance running, the WIS buff, Call to Glory, and on the Warden I had Aegis of Hope and Atonement. Now, seeing as how the Warden is a. level 50 and b. hardly ever communicates her intentions over chat, (as an example) she would make for a Rujarkan camp (for the Court of Blades quest series) and just as she would get into aggro range...They would all turn and come after ME! You know, I don't mind her pulling, because for a Warden, she does pretty well....But, jeez, when I pull, I get beat on....when she pulls, I get beat on. Where's the justice here?

---

Yes!  I have noticed this VERY same thing.  It doesn't just happen with Wardens though, it's nearly any class I duo/small group with.  If I pull someone else is instantly targeted by the encounter.  If *that* person pulls, I get targeted.  I also noticed this playing on a baby alt with a friend...I was an enchanter and he was a sorcerer.  I was 2 levels higher but if I pulled he got agro, if he pulled I got agro.  Not sure if it's intended but it is odd.

[mark9999]

I don't why EVERY friggingtime someone has a problem a dozen people jump up
saying "I don't have that problem"!. I mean, if someone has been hit by a car, and
the ambulance comes, do you jump at the doctors and tell them not to care for
him, because you have crossed the street safely??

 

Honestly, it does not interest me a bit that you hold the aggro, becaus thats not
helping me a dam_n bit! I held aggro ALWAYS before the update and now I don't,
so I can't be *that* stupid. And YES I KNOW amends and I use it.

 

IT DOES NOT HELP ME. Maybe you should not group with folks 10 levels
below you... I really grow tired that ALWAYS some fanbois jump in, whenver
someone critizises a part of the game and defends it merely for the sake
of defending. Ever heard the word Zealot before?

 

Anyway, there can be no doubt that loosing all secondary and tertiary abilities
of the spells is s_hit and took a lot of variety and abiity away. The grouping
feels far too much like a grind now, and I am not the only person here who
experiences this.

 

I really believe in the idea of "never change a running system", and the combat in
Eq2 before wasn't perfect but quite good. Besides smaller problems all classes

were pretty content. As nice as DoF is, I feel this combat revamp is a shot in
the knees of SOE and I guess if they don't change it, and SOON, they'll sink
faster than the Titanic did.

--------------------------------------------------
I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

 

Wow your just an idiot i posted what i thought and what i did to hold aggro to try to share what i'm doing write and you come out with a response like this? I hope you stop playing EQ2 because of combat changes because it's obvious that you don't have the ability to adapt to the changes, and as far as grping with people 10 lvl's lower that me.......you gotta go the other way a bit....i come from a fabled out guild i have fabled armor but no master taunts....but.....the people i grp with, the dps, the have all masters and all fabled weapons from head to toe....try holding aggro from them [Removed for Content].

 

P.S. any dps who plays stupid would be able to pull aggro from anyone.

Message Edited by mark9999 on 09-19-2005 07:24 AM