Thanks for all the Paladin fixes in today's update.

FieryFurnace · 03-08-2005, 10:28 PM

Not.

Least SOE could do now that I don't use my horse (Jboots are same speed as paly horse) is please fix the spam that thinks I'm on a horse.

Seomon · 03-08-2005, 10:41 PM

Paladin changes:
- Divine Vengeance now grants strength.

That's not much, but at least it's SOMETHING. I didn't get to test it before Unrest went Offline, though.

Ajantiss · 03-08-2005, 11:14 PM

Maybe in a year or so they'll get to fixing our other abilities/issues :smileyindifferent:

Message Edited by Ajantiss on 03-08-2005 01:14 PM

Madha · 03-08-2005, 11:16 PM

Guys, just compare with... necromancers for instance, they come just before us in the list :

Necromancer changes:

:
- Revivication can now be used to resurrect your allies.
- Zarvonn's Vitae Gorge was changed so it deals damage over time and heals over time as well. The spell should also show up in the maintained spells window.
- Terror no longer stuns the caster while the fear spell is in effect. This should remove the "Interrupted!" message that was being displayed.
- Pestilential Blast and Skinrot will now debuff your opponent correctly.
- Boon of the Lifeless and Words of the Wicked now tick at the proper interval.
- Grisly Mark, Horrific Mark, and Nevagon's Pestilential Mark now correctly debuff stamina.
- Accursed Cloud will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Breath of the Unearthed will now appear in the maintained spells window.
- Opal's Aggravating Seal now shares a reuse timer with Agitation.
- Cloak of the Venril: The lifetap damage shield will now work properly.
- Grisly Brace: The spell description has been modified.
- Rending Frenzy had a grammar issue that was corrected.

- Paladin changes:

- Divine Vengeance now grants strength.

So yes, it's better than nothing, but come on... Most of our DoTs dont do any DoT, half of our upgrades are worse than the original spell, Smite prayer remained inactive (and unreplaced) for 12 levels, Holy sunder is so bugged that you have to keep Power cleave forever, the level 40 squire is on the same timer as sacrament, and makes it a 1500 seconds recast, etc, etc, etc...

Divine vengeance now grants strength. I'm so happy.

Message Edited by Madhaus on 03-08-2005 10:17 AM

Seomon · 03-08-2005, 11:22 PM

Ok, let's compare:

Templar changes:
- Reproach is now called Templar: Reproach to prevent confusion with the Swashbuckler and Inquisitor versions of this spell.

Wow, they got a skill renamed! And that's it.

Seomon · 03-08-2005, 11:23 PM

Oh, and on the subject of Paladin issues, if I missed anything in my post linked below, please post there so I can add it to the list there and in the Spells/Abilities/Combat Arts forum.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=7023&jump=true

AlleySpa · 03-09-2005, 12:19 AM

I have to disagree with you on this one out of the 20+ borked skills we only get one fix that's ridiculous. And to compare to temp's which are arguably one of the best healing classes in the game maybe they didn't need that much attention, meanwhile paladins which are tanks tend to get the backseat when compared to the others, these fixes are needed and we should not be satisfied with what we get but instead argue for what we deserve, we aern't asking for anything other than fixes, upon picking my class I speant alot of time reading on it and feel i've been shorted.

(Now I understand we aern't as bad off as some but if we keep with the easygoing attitude it'll be forever before we get fixed. Soe is already installing new content and with their track record we won't be fixed, I was a pikeman in SWG and it was the same easygoing laid back community as us paladin's and they still need fixing.)

This isn't an attack on anyone I just don't want us selling ourselves short.

Nunc · 03-09-2005, 02:02 AM

pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho.

AlleySpa · 03-09-2005, 02:28 AM

Oh My.

I can't even think of a response without totally flaming. So i'll let our other more vocal members handle this.

Joker3 · 03-09-2005, 02:30 AM

Has any dev even responded in one of our topics stating they know we have several problems with our skills?

Stormwitt · 03-09-2005, 02:46 AM

I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed. Wittmont (of splitpaw)

BlackW · 03-09-2005, 02:51 AM

Nunchi wrote:

pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho.

Bah! :smileymad:

Lairdragna · 03-09-2005, 03:05 AM

How about the fix the heal on Divine Wrath? I upgraded this to an Adept 3 because in my groups I am often the main tank and the back up healer. Seemed to make sense with a group of mobs to pull with righteous anger, hit them immediately with a group taunt to focus aggro, hit them with cry of conviction and follow it up with Divine Wrath to make sure I have their attention while throwing a minor heal on the group. Rinse and repeat. But no, our spell tries to heal the mob, which it can;t do... so we get half of the spell'sbenefit... yeah, that was worth wasting a rare for!

Culann Heartsto · 03-09-2005, 03:12 AM

Nunchi wrote:

pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho.

Correction: YOU are not MT. In the future speak for yourself and not others of us who assume that role regularly, with ability, determination, and requisite style.

Seomon · 03-09-2005, 03:17 AM

Nunchi wrote:

pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho.

::points at the Guardian tool::

::laughs hysterically::

::conitues being the MT::

Oxboy5 · 03-09-2005, 04:30 AM

Stormwitt wrote:
I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed.

Wittmont (of splitpaw)

You make good points. From a global perspective, we are not 'broken' but we do need refinement. A big problem is the expectations SOE sets by not matching up the textual spell descriptions with the actual effects. For example, if we never knew there was a DoT component considered for a certain spell, we wouldn't gripe as much; we'd write it off as an unbroken, albeit crappy spell and move on. They did themselves a HUGE disservice by not managing our ('our' meaning all classes) expectations better.

Perhaps the bigger question, from a design standpoint, is why introduce crappy unproductive 'unfun' skills in the first place? Each spell upgrade you receive should be exciting to try out and make you feel a little (or a lot at certain level intervals) more productive and empowered.

zoiric3 · 03-09-2005, 04:46 AM

Well, it is something only if Divine Vengeance grants strength AND stacks with Vigor of Trust. That was the real issue - Divine Vengeance actually did grant strength when Vigor of Trust was not up... But I haven't tried it yet since the patch.

Curtic · 03-09-2005, 04:59 AM

Hey Nunchi, let me have a hit of whatever your smokin. That has GOT to be some good stuff.

FieryFurnace · 03-09-2005, 11:01 AM

Stormwitt wrote:
I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed.

Wittmont (of splitpaw)

I agree with you completely. I'm not even asking for a fix of any powers, abilities, or spells. Get rid of the spam that thinks I'm on my horse! Please.

H3llburn · 03-09-2005, 05:35 PM

I tank all the time, infact the only time im not the tank in group situations is when there is a higher level tank in my group. Paladins need refinement, some of our upgrades are a waste of devs time if thats all they could come up with, yet we are no where NEAR as screwed and tatooed as we were in EQ1. From what I hear it could be worse we could have been necros or rangers :smileyvery-happy:

Than

Araknar · 03-09-2005, 05:42 PM

Hey guys Guess what! skill is still broken! tested lots last night, doesnt work with Pious belief on us, umm wasnt that the problem before anyway?

wonder what they think they fixed.......

Steelle

Kithicor

zoiric3 · 03-09-2005, 05:55 PM

They didn't fix anything. Divine Vengeance still works but doesn't stack with our strength concentration buff.

Miracole · 03-09-2005, 06:04 PM

Seomon wrote:
Paladin changes:
- Divine Vengeance now grants strength.
That's not much, but at least it's SOMETHING. I didn't get to test it before Unrest went Offline, though.

it is STILL BROKEN. hell i have no idea about divinte vengence, but shattered will still is. and it's the SAME SPELL LINE!.

Nunc · 03-09-2005, 06:25 PM

Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull SMILEY

Miracole · 03-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Nunchi wrote:
Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull

okay okay nunchi, we GOT THE POINTYOU CAN'T TANK. YOU ARE USEFUL. YOU CAN'T SPELL.stop putting yourself down. you get no sympathy from us, so why don't you go cry on zerker's forum?huh?maybe they will be nice enough and make a spell called "summon nunchi". of course, it would share a timer with their "best tank" spell for 20 minutes, because they know when they use "summon nunchi", their "best tank" mode is definitely ON.

Seomon · 03-09-2005, 07:04 PM

Nunchi wrote:

Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull

See, that's because when Berserkers go Berserk, it's a self-buff, raising their agro level like it was a taunt. Yes, it's a little difficult sometimes to hold agro off a Berserker, but it can be done.

xXSavior · 03-09-2005, 07:43 PM

Tanking with Berserkers is easily done if you both know what you're doing. My brother is a Berserker, he's much more old fashion about it in terms that he sees Berserkers as hardcore damage dealers not tanks. Just as I see Paladins as hardcore tanks not off tanks.

We play together all the time. Both almost level 44. I will admit if a Berserker doesn't watch what he's doing he can rip aggro from most anyone. Before they added stat data to our skill descriptions many Berserkers did not know one of their damage attacks had a built in taunt as well. Is it a bear to handle? No. I can easily hold aggro from him while he rips into mobs.

If I wanted to use redemption it would make the process trivial. We duo'd 80% of our levels which allowed me time to learn plenty of ways to hold aggro to give him as much room as possible to dish out damage. He knows not to spam all his skill back to back without redemption on, just as I know to hit my taunts, use my buffs, etc.

Like most everyone will claim to say. It's not the class, it's the players.

Hroga · 03-09-2005, 09:28 PM

Well, after last night's experiments, I think I'm glad they didn't touch the Paladins with this patch. I duo with a Swashbuckler regularly. He had been on for a while when I joined him in the EL. When I got there he said, "Watch this..." and proceeded to take on a green mob wasp. I looked on as a mob that he had previously been able to take down with no issue ate his lunch. I had to rush in at the last minute with healing and Oath Strike to save his life basically. His only comment was, "Glad you're finally here...I've been running for my life all night long out here."

So if that's the extent of the "fixes," glad we were left alone. My condolences to the Swashbucklers...

Karlen · 03-09-2005, 11:55 PM

Nunchi wrote:
Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull

I've noticed that, although I can tank as well as guardians and berserkers, I need to be more careful about it. With the right taunts, buffs, etc. cast in the right order, I don't see myself as any worse of a tank than others but I can't just spam hotkeys and still hold aggro.Sometimes I am the main tank, sometimes I am the main healer, sometimes I play support. It all depends on who I am grouping with. I do find it hard to be both main tank AND main healer at the same time (which I've tried to do when group with several squishy types).If there is another tank the same level or higher than me, I will usually let them tank, as I have lots of buffs that I can't use on myself, but I can put on others. But if they don't want to tank, I will certainly step up to the plate.

Oxboy5 · 03-10-2005, 12:19 AM

I've noticed that, although I can tank as well as guardians and berserkers, I need to be more careful about it. With the right taunts, buffs, etc. cast in the right order, I don't see myself as any worse of a tank than others but I can't just spam hotkeys and still hold aggro.

This is a very well-put, accurate summary, Zot. It just takes a little more brains and smarts for a Pally to MT, that's all. We have all the tools to get and hold aggro. Furthermore, it's very flattering when you get side-tells from group members saying 'I wish you were MT.'

An educated pally with top-notch equipment is a VERY formidable and versatile tank.

03-08-2005, 10:28 PM	#1
FieryFurnace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	Not. Least SOE could do now that I don't use my horse (Jboots are same speed as paly horse) is please fix the spam that thinks I'm on a horse. __________________ Rellron 70 Paladin (retired)

03-08-2005, 10:41 PM	#2
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Paladin changes: - Divine Vengeance now grants strength. That's not much, but at least it's SOMETHING. I didn't get to test it before Unrest went Offline, though. __________________

03-08-2005, 11:14 PM	#3
Ajantiss Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Maybe in a year or so they'll get to fixing our other abilities/issues :smileyindifferent: Message Edited by Ajantiss on 03-08-2005 01:14 PM __________________ Devout Paladin of the Truthbringer Oasis Server

03-08-2005, 11:16 PM	#4
Madha Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 23	Guys, just compare with... necromancers for instance, they come just before us in the list : Necromancer changes: : - Revivication can now be used to resurrect your allies. - Zarvonn's Vitae Gorge was changed so it deals damage over time and heals over time as well. The spell should also show up in the maintained spells window. - Terror no longer stuns the caster while the fear spell is in effect. This should remove the "Interrupted!" message that was being displayed. - Pestilential Blast and Skinrot will now debuff your opponent correctly. - Boon of the Lifeless and Words of the Wicked now tick at the proper interval. - Grisly Mark, Horrific Mark, and Nevagon's Pestilential Mark now correctly debuff stamina. - Accursed Cloud will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Breath of the Unearthed will now appear in the maintained spells window. - Opal's Aggravating Seal now shares a reuse timer with Agitation. - Cloak of the Venril: The lifetap damage shield will now work properly. - Grisly Brace: The spell description has been modified. - Rending Frenzy had a grammar issue that was corrected. - Paladin changes: - Divine Vengeance now grants strength. So yes, it's better than nothing, but come on... Most of our DoTs dont do any DoT, half of our upgrades are worse than the original spell, Smite prayer remained inactive (and unreplaced) for 12 levels, Holy sunder is so bugged that you have to keep Power cleave forever, the level 40 squire is on the same timer as sacrament, and makes it a 1500 seconds recast, etc, etc, etc... Divine vengeance now grants strength. I'm so happy. Message Edited by Madhaus on 03-08-2005 10:17 AM __________________

03-08-2005, 11:22 PM	#5
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Ok, let's compare: Templar changes: - Reproach is now called Templar: Reproach to prevent confusion with the Swashbuckler and Inquisitor versions of this spell. Wow, they got a skill renamed! And that's it. __________________

03-08-2005, 11:23 PM	#6
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Oh, and on the subject of Paladin issues, if I missed anything in my post linked below, please post there so I can add it to the list there and in the Spells/Abilities/Combat Arts forum. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=7023&jump=true __________________

03-09-2005, 12:19 AM	#7
AlleySpa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	I have to disagree with you on this one out of the 20+ borked skills we only get one fix that's ridiculous. And to compare to temp's which are arguably one of the best healing classes in the game maybe they didn't need that much attention, meanwhile paladins which are tanks tend to get the backseat when compared to the others, these fixes are needed and we should not be satisfied with what we get but instead argue for what we deserve, we aern't asking for anything other than fixes, upon picking my class I speant alot of time reading on it and feel i've been shorted. (Now I understand we aern't as bad off as some but if we keep with the easygoing attitude it'll be forever before we get fixed. Soe is already installing new content and with their track record we won't be fixed, I was a pikeman in SWG and it was the same easygoing laid back community as us paladin's and they still need fixing.) This isn't an attack on anyone I just don't want us selling ourselves short.

03-09-2005, 02:02 AM	#8
Nunc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho. __________________

03-09-2005, 02:28 AM	#9
AlleySpa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 52	Oh My. I can't even think of a response without totally flaming. So i'll let our other more vocal members handle this.

03-09-2005, 02:30 AM	#10
Joker3 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 52	Has any dev even responded in one of our topics stating they know we have several problems with our skills?

03-09-2005, 02:46 AM	#11
Stormwitt Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17	I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed. Wittmont (of splitpaw)

03-09-2005, 02:51 AM	#12
BlackW Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	Nunchi wrote: pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho. Bah! :smileymad: __________________ Blackweb, Human Paladin - Lucan Dlere Roleplay Server Order of Marr Crusader/Paladin Guide - In Progress

03-09-2005, 03:05 AM	#13
Lairdragna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 543	How about the fix the heal on Divine Wrath? I upgraded this to an Adept 3 because in my groups I am often the main tank and the back up healer. Seemed to make sense with a group of mobs to pull with righteous anger, hit them immediately with a group taunt to focus aggro, hit them with cry of conviction and follow it up with Divine Wrath to make sure I have their attention while throwing a minor heal on the group. Rinse and repeat. But no, our spell tries to heal the mob, which it can;t do... so we get half of the spell'sbenefit... yeah, that was worth wasting a rare for!

03-09-2005, 03:12 AM	#14
Culann Heartsto Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	Nunchi wrote: pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho. Correction: YOU are not MT. In the future speak for yourself and not others of us who assume that role regularly, with ability, determination, and requisite style. __________________ Tank's code of honor:: First in, last out. Die for the healers safety, whatever personal cost. Keep aggro, all of it, strive for it, all times, all places in which it matters. Fight hard, die harder.

03-09-2005, 03:17 AM	#15
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Nunchi wrote: pallys are not MT. We can tank if we need to we can heal if we need to but we are not main anything. I work good in a group buff the MT add some good damage heal when the healer are low on power. We have good spell if only the all would work I am glad they fix one tho. ::points at the Guardian tool:: ::laughs hysterically:: ::conitues being the MT:: __________________

03-09-2005, 04:30 AM	#16
Oxboy5 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 97	Stormwitt wrote: I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed. Wittmont (of splitpaw) You make good points. From a global perspective, we are not 'broken' but we do need refinement. A big problem is the expectations SOE sets by not matching up the textual spell descriptions with the actual effects. For example, if we never knew there was a DoT component considered for a certain spell, we wouldn't gripe as much; we'd write it off as an unbroken, albeit crappy spell and move on. They did themselves a HUGE disservice by not managing our ('our' meaning all classes) expectations better. Perhaps the bigger question, from a design standpoint, is why introduce crappy unproductive 'unfun' skills in the first place? Each spell upgrade you receive should be exciting to try out and make you feel a little (or a lot at certain level intervals) more productive and empowered.

03-09-2005, 04:46 AM	#17
zoiric3 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6	Well, it is something only if Divine Vengeance grants strength AND stacks with Vigor of Trust. That was the real issue - Divine Vengeance actually did grant strength when Vigor of Trust was not up... But I haven't tried it yet since the patch.

03-09-2005, 04:59 AM	#18
Curtic Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Hey Nunchi, let me have a hit of whatever your smokin. That has GOT to be some good stuff. __________________ Curticus Rulzicus 42 Dwf Pal Dragon Fodder Najena

03-09-2005, 11:01 AM	#19
FieryFurnace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	Stormwitt wrote: I'm beginning to think that the devs are leery of fixing the issues with the Paladin class. I think they see it as a balance problem and that they are afraid of giving Paladins too much dps or too much healing powers. Even with the bugs Paladins are still a very popular class many people thoroughly enjoy playing. In the hands of skilled players Paladins with their diverce capabilities can already be a very forceful and decisive class despite the bugs. I'm suspecting there is a fear of creating a uber class if the fixes are implemented. Don't get me wrong. I'm impatently waiting for the issues to be addressed. Wittmont (of splitpaw) I agree with you completely. I'm not even asking for a fix of any powers, abilities, or spells. Get rid of the spam that thinks I'm on my horse! Please. __________________ Rellron 70 Paladin (retired)

03-09-2005, 05:35 PM	#20
H3llburn Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46	I tank all the time, infact the only time im not the tank in group situations is when there is a higher level tank in my group. Paladins need refinement, some of our upgrades are a waste of devs time if thats all they could come up with, yet we are no where NEAR as screwed and tatooed as we were in EQ1. From what I hear it could be worse we could have been necros or rangers :smileyvery-happy: Than

03-09-2005, 05:42 PM	#21
Araknar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Hey guys Guess what! skill is still broken! tested lots last night, doesnt work with Pious belief on us, umm wasnt that the problem before anyway? wonder what they think they fixed....... Steelle Kithicor

03-09-2005, 05:55 PM	#22
zoiric3 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6	They didn't fix anything. Divine Vengeance still works but doesn't stack with our strength concentration buff.

03-09-2005, 06:04 PM	#23
Miracole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 142	Seomon wrote: Paladin changes: - Divine Vengeance now grants strength. That's not much, but at least it's SOMETHING. I didn't get to test it before Unrest went Offline, though. it is STILL BROKEN. hell i have no idea about divinte vengence, but shattered will still is. and it's the SAME SPELL LINE!.

03-09-2005, 06:25 PM	#24
Nunc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull __________________

03-09-2005, 06:54 PM	#25
Miracole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 142	Nunchi wrote: Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull okay okay nunchi, we GOT THE POINTYOU CAN'T TANK. YOU ARE USEFUL. YOU CAN'T SPELL.stop putting yourself down. you get no sympathy from us, so why don't you go cry on zerker's forum?huh?maybe they will be nice enough and make a spell called "summon nunchi". of course, it would share a timer with their "best tank" spell for 20 minutes, because they know when they use "summon nunchi", their "best tank" mode is definitely ON.

03-09-2005, 07:04 PM	#26
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Nunchi wrote: Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull See, that's because when Berserkers go Berserk, it's a self-buff, raising their agro level like it was a taunt. Yes, it's a little difficult sometimes to hold agro off a Berserker, but it can be done. __________________

03-09-2005, 07:43 PM	#27
xXSavior Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Tanking with Berserkers is easily done if you both know what you're doing. My brother is a Berserker, he's much more old fashion about it in terms that he sees Berserkers as hardcore damage dealers not tanks. Just as I see Paladins as hardcore tanks not off tanks. We play together all the time. Both almost level 44. I will admit if a Berserker doesn't watch what he's doing he can rip aggro from most anyone. Before they added stat data to our skill descriptions many Berserkers did not know one of their damage attacks had a built in taunt as well. Is it a bear to handle? No. I can easily hold aggro from him while he rips into mobs. If I wanted to use redemption it would make the process trivial. We duo'd 80% of our levels which allowed me time to learn plenty of ways to hold aggro to give him as much room as possible to dish out damage. He knows not to spam all his skill back to back without redemption on, just as I know to hit my taunts, use my buffs, etc. Like most everyone will claim to say. It's not the class, it's the players.

03-09-2005, 09:28 PM	#28
Hroga Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 45	Well, after last night's experiments, I think I'm glad they didn't touch the Paladins with this patch. I duo with a Swashbuckler regularly. He had been on for a while when I joined him in the EL. When I got there he said, "Watch this..." and proceeded to take on a green mob wasp. I looked on as a mob that he had previously been able to take down with no issue ate his lunch. I had to rush in at the last minute with healing and Oath Strike to save his life basically. His only comment was, "Glad you're finally here...I've been running for my life all night long out here." So if that's the extent of the "fixes," glad we were left alone. My condolences to the Swashbucklers...

03-09-2005, 11:55 PM	#29
Karlen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,513	Nunchi wrote: Well I guest some of you think your are awesome tanks and maybe you are. Any one can tank to a degree what I saying we are not the best. from level 15 to 50 the group I fight with has two berserker when it just the three of us we all would jump on a mod and fraile the heck out of it no taunts one of them always got the agro. Later when I woke up to the fact that I could not out tank them I brcame much more usefull I've noticed that, although I can tank as well as guardians and berserkers, I need to be more careful about it. With the right taunts, buffs, etc. cast in the right order, I don't see myself as any worse of a tank than others but I can't just spam hotkeys and still hold aggro.Sometimes I am the main tank, sometimes I am the main healer, sometimes I play support. It all depends on who I am grouping with. I do find it hard to be both main tank AND main healer at the same time (which I've tried to do when group with several squishy types).If there is another tank the same level or higher than me, I will usually let them tank, as I have lots of buffs that I can't use on myself, but I can put on others. But if they don't want to tank, I will certainly step up to the plate.

03-10-2005, 12:19 AM	#30
Oxboy5 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 97	I've noticed that, although I can tank as well as guardians and berserkers, I need to be more careful about it. With the right taunts, buffs, etc. cast in the right order, I don't see myself as any worse of a tank than others but I can't just spam hotkeys and still hold aggro. This is a very well-put, accurate summary, Zot. It just takes a little more brains and smarts for a Pally to MT, that's all. We have all the tools to get and hold aggro. Furthermore, it's very flattering when you get side-tells from group members saying 'I wish you were MT.' An educated pally with top-notch equipment is a VERY formidable and versatile tank.