Redemption and you, don't tank without it.

Tucciim · 02-18-2005, 11:36 PM

Redemption is a lowly level21 spell with GODLY power. It transfers 35% of the targets hate to you.

it does take 2 concentration buffs so you are limited to useing redemption and your defensive stance, but trust me it's worth it. Cast it on scouts as much as possible. a MOB's hate list is affected by distance as well as damage and the other factors. so while a wizard may be doing 1.5X as much damage as a scout the scout is more likely to pull hate since he is (normally) closer to the mob then the wizard.

A quick example of a test i ran with a buddy assassin.

Killing terrors in ef. we were both L48 at the time. Without redemption cast on him, he was only able to get up to 110dps or so before the mob would spin on him. and yes this is with me using all our tricks, buffs, wards, healing, taunts, as well as burning. with redemption cast on him, i taunted 1once in the beginning of the fight, and that was it. no buffs, no wards, no burnign power, nothing. 1 taunt, and he was able to do near 300 dps with out the mob spinning. I should validate that comment by adding that the mob never spun and that the assassin could only get up to 300 dps.

that little L21 spell is your best friend.

RioR · 02-18-2005, 11:50 PM

I started using it on my scout friend (he is one level higher) the second I hit level 21. I think the last time we hunted together he only got hit one time. That was at the end of the fight when the mob died. I actually was scratching my head wondering why...hehe.

SunT · 02-18-2005, 11:50 PM

Interesting info, thanks.

I read somewhere that there is NO Prox aggro in a fight in EQ2? So the wiz would be equally as likely to gain aggro as the scout regardless of thier positioning.

Is this not true?

Brigh · 02-19-2005, 12:51 AM

What about DI?

I have Adept 1 and find no help in that supposedly aggro transfering group buff.

RSZ · 02-19-2005, 01:04 AM

Hear hear

Big need for redemption on your Mages now. Use it.

RSZ · 02-19-2005, 01:05 AM

You should also use a shield and shining beacon or knight stance.

I should make Paly basics summary for all Level 24 templars rerolling Pally tanks of hopelessness.

Platfing · 02-19-2005, 01:32 AM

I wish there was a group buff version of this.

Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)

Renn · 02-19-2005, 02:49 AM

I generally don't use it much in groups, although with new wizards I guess I might. Good thing I picked up a Master 1 copy of it for 40s a while back. "Transfers 37% of target's current Threat to the caster."

Seomon · 02-19-2005, 03:51 AM

I've never used it and don't ever plan on using it. I'm 43 now, and the only time I have problems with agro are when I get lazy (it happens to all of us SMILEY

)

RSZ · 02-19-2005, 04:04 AM

Yeah, cause the game is exactly the same as when you leveled and no need for adjustment. ROLLEYES

roma · 02-23-2005, 09:15 PM

I am a 28 paladin and never used it so far for a very simple reason...I usually tank so KS is a must (so 3 'why?' conc slots r taken up) then Glorious Weapon, 1 conc slot, (i am actually trying to understand the difference between Kasine's Sanctified Prayer and Glorious Weapon...) and, finally, something else i cant remember so no room for Redemption. I tank pretty well with this config so dont know really...

Am i missing something here about redemption?

Message Edited by roma on 02-23-2005 08:16 AM

Hroga · 02-23-2005, 09:46 PM

I don't think you are. Honestly, I've tried redemption a few times when duoing with my swashbuckler brother and I'd swear the thing was working in reverse! Granted, he doles out the DPS, but I was taunting, HOing, warding, etc. WITH redemption and would consistently lose aggro. When I turned it off, I wouldn't lose them. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but even my brother thought the spell was working in reverse. I hung this one up as broken and haven't looked back. Glad it's working for someone though...

Ma · 02-23-2005, 10:31 PM

Was your redemption an app1 by any chance?

I have also been experimenting with redemption the last 2 weeks after a long time without being used and must say what a great tool in high dps groups, i think i have lost agro only 3 times in several hundred fights, and thats with only the initial taunt from the pull.

This spell is going straight from obvlivion back to my hotbar, great advice! SMILEY

Pnaxx · 02-23-2005, 11:06 PM

*scribles notes*

*looks forward to using redemption*

*drinks beer*

ghosthamm · 02-23-2005, 11:40 PM

I never use it, if im tanking i have stance on, vigor of trust on myself (a must for soloers) and have 1 slot left, which goes to glorious weapon for that lil proc. Never found myself losing aggro When MT, keeping divin inspiration up.....last 10mins ,no concentration slots and gives u 5% hate, yes only 5% hate, but that is 5% of every group member's hate. If your MT and have trouble holding aggro(how?) let your groups allow you to cast a quick HO finishing it with the taunt before they start hitting the target hard.

Hawkt · 02-24-2005, 12:45 AM

I use Redpemtion all the time in groups. Throw it on the charecter getting agro, and enjoy it.

Hroga · 02-24-2005, 01:08 AM

In fact, mine may be an App 1. I'll remedy that tonight and see whether it becomes more viable. Thanks!

uzhiel feathered serpe · 02-24-2005, 01:53 AM

Remember that although we can use buffs as hate generators they do not accrue as much hate as DPS and they are mana burning machines. Casting redemption will save time, mana, and lives! I agree with Tuc

Uzhiel. lvl 45 Paladin, Faydark.

Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 02-23-2005 01:00 PM

Talbot · 02-24-2005, 04:26 AM

Redemption, yes it works. At adept 3, I can tell you grouping with an equal level wizzie, I HAD to do it, granted he was nuke happy, but he was just happy to be able to dish out that much damage. hehehe, so I just asked hime to tone down damage a smiggen and he happily did so. Now when I say he was dealing out damage, using combat stats, His damage output doubled the amount of damage I took. If he started nuking without me getting the first taunt off he died. Then we would rez him and go back at it. He finally worked into a flow and all was great.

Sure, you can run without redemption. Just power dump the mobs, you probably won't lose agro doing it either, but you will burn your power out with a quickness. When fighting an epic mob or above you want your damage to be steady and same with power consumption. If you power dump, your risk dieing at an awkward point. Pallys, are wonderful tanks and if your aren't using all your tools to begin with, you really can't complain about much.

Korpo · 02-24-2005, 06:40 AM

I upgraded mine to app4 (haven't seen an adept on the broker yet) and it transfers 32%. If a master is only 37%, probably not worth it to get upgraded to ad3, probably transfer 35% or so.In any case, I'm lvl 41 and use it all the time. I usually put the training self buff on myself for str/agi/sta/wis, then redemption on the main healer and main nuker, or if there are two big nukers, they get it. With them generating that much hate for me I can practically stand there doing nothing and hold agro. With my standard taunts and stuns and damage, it's a cakewalk.Against something like a huge raid mob, if I'm tanking, I'd probably throw on KS or SB just for the extra defense skill and maybe redemption on the big nuker. If you have enough group buffs the self buff doesn't do all that much more, and the stun proc thing doesn't hit very often vs. something raid level. If I'm not tanking, I'll throw redemption on the two biggest nukers or healers and the buff on the MT. That way if they're nuking like crazy, the worst that can happen is I get agro. At least I can hold for a few hits, unlike them.

roma · 02-24-2005, 02:25 PM

I do agree with Ghosthammer. I currently use exactly the same buff/ward configuration.

KS to soften the healer's job, Vigor of Trust and Divine Inspiration to regain partially what i lose in offense with KS on and usually Glorious Weapon.

Before the fight i also cast Blessing of the Penitent for those extra HP's; Faithful Zeal, and Toughness (grey to me now but still of good use).

I hardly lose aggro and if it happens i use all the taunting spells i have atm: Inflame, Blinding Light and, finally, Shout if the first two don't work but the first taunt is normally enough to accrue hate.

If i am in danger of losing the healer or nuker then shoot quickly a Faithful Zeal on him/her and start healing with Blessed Aid or Penitent Sacrament.

Lastly, if all my taunting options fail (very rarely thou) i cast hate accrue spells such as Righteous Anger or its upgrade and Oath Strike. I noticed that it usually works with Divine Vengeance even though you should look around yourself before trigging the AoE spells.

However, the Redemption spell seems interesting and if many of you use it then there must be a reason so I'll give it a try tonight.

It's nice to have such forums where people with different opinions meet and discuss. I always find something new and interesting to try following other people ideas.

Thanks guys, great forum for real Paladins SMILEY

PS: oh, btw, have you ever used Rescue??? That's another mistery among my spells...

Ma · 02-24-2005, 08:28 PM

I use rescue the few times ive lost agro and taunts wont get it back, allthough it wont get agro back in every situation it is a quite powerful taunt.

Hawkt · 02-25-2005, 12:28 AM

I was grouped with a equal level bezerker, I was using Knights stance, Glorius weapon, and Vigor, and was the main tank. The bezerker was really pushing me, and getting agro nearly every fight, with me hammering the all taunts, and ending with no power left.

I swapped to Shining Beacon, and Redemption on him, and it was night and day. I didn't even need to hit the taunts more than once per fight. Redemption is your friend when you have a agro getting person.

02-18-2005, 11:36 PM	#1
Tucciim Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Redemption is a lowly level21 spell with GODLY power. It transfers 35% of the targets hate to you. it does take 2 concentration buffs so you are limited to useing redemption and your defensive stance, but trust me it's worth it. Cast it on scouts as much as possible. a MOB's hate list is affected by distance as well as damage and the other factors. so while a wizard may be doing 1.5X as much damage as a scout the scout is more likely to pull hate since he is (normally) closer to the mob then the wizard. A quick example of a test i ran with a buddy assassin. Killing terrors in ef. we were both L48 at the time. Without redemption cast on him, he was only able to get up to 110dps or so before the mob would spin on him. and yes this is with me using all our tricks, buffs, wards, healing, taunts, as well as burning. with redemption cast on him, i taunted 1once in the beginning of the fight, and that was it. no buffs, no wards, no burnign power, nothing. 1 taunt, and he was able to do near 300 dps with out the mob spinning. I should validate that comment by adding that the mob never spun and that the assassin could only get up to 300 dps. that little L21 spell is your best friend. __________________ Viderian ~ 70 Brig/9 craftsman ~ Elysium ~ Grabak ~ 70 Bru/12 craftsman ~ ~ Ghlidun ~ 50 Pal/50 Prov ~ Vae Victis ~ ~ Crushbone Server ~

02-18-2005, 11:50 PM	#2
RioR Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	I started using it on my scout friend (he is one level higher) the second I hit level 21. I think the last time we hunted together he only got hit one time. That was at the end of the fight when the mob died. I actually was scratching my head wondering why...hehe. __________________

02-18-2005, 11:50 PM	#3
SunT Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 821	Interesting info, thanks. I read somewhere that there is NO Prox aggro in a fight in EQ2? So the wiz would be equally as likely to gain aggro as the scout regardless of thier positioning. Is this not true? __________________ Retired Roamin Nome, 70 Illusionist/60Jeweler Crack Bot, Nektulos Argyll, 60 Paladin / Heresy, 62 Defiler

02-19-2005, 12:51 AM	#4
Brigh Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,159	What about DI? I have Adept 1 and find no help in that supposedly aggro transfering group buff. __________________ Anything you can achieve through hard work, you can also just buy. -Stephen Colbert CoD3 double XP Rank Up promotion lesson for kids

02-19-2005, 02:49 AM	#8
Renn Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 102	I generally don't use it much in groups, although with new wizards I guess I might. Good thing I picked up a Master 1 copy of it for 40s a while back. "Transfers 37% of target's current Threat to the caster." __________________ "We r giving u r warning" - Outsourced GM Praithy, direct from India!

02-19-2005, 01:04 AM	#5
RSZ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Hear hear Big need for redemption on your Mages now. Use it.

02-19-2005, 01:05 AM	#6
RSZ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	You should also use a shield and shining beacon or knight stance. I should make Paly basics summary for all Level 24 templars rerolling Pally tanks of hopelessness.

02-19-2005, 01:32 AM	#7
Platfing Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 123	I wish there was a group buff version of this. Fenra Fairheart (Butcherblock)

02-19-2005, 03:51 AM	#9
Seomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	I've never used it and don't ever plan on using it. I'm 43 now, and the only time I have problems with agro are when I get lazy (it happens to all of us ) __________________

02-19-2005, 04:04 AM	#10
RSZ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Yeah, cause the game is exactly the same as when you leveled and no need for adjustment. ROLLEYES

02-23-2005, 09:15 PM	#11
roma Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	I am a 28 paladin and never used it so far for a very simple reason...I usually tank so KS is a must (so 3 'why?' conc slots r taken up) then Glorious Weapon, 1 conc slot, (i am actually trying to understand the difference between Kasine's Sanctified Prayer and Glorious Weapon...) and, finally, something else i cant remember so no room for Redemption. I tank pretty well with this config so dont know really... Am i missing something here about redemption? Message Edited by roma on 02-23-2005 08:16 AM

02-23-2005, 09:46 PM	#12
Hroga Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 45	I don't think you are. Honestly, I've tried redemption a few times when duoing with my swashbuckler brother and I'd swear the thing was working in reverse! Granted, he doles out the DPS, but I was taunting, HOing, warding, etc. WITH redemption and would consistently lose aggro. When I turned it off, I wouldn't lose them. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but even my brother thought the spell was working in reverse. I hung this one up as broken and haven't looked back. Glad it's working for someone though...

02-23-2005, 10:31 PM	#13
Ma Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	Was your redemption an app1 by any chance? I have also been experimenting with redemption the last 2 weeks after a long time without being used and must say what a great tool in high dps groups, i think i have lost agro only 3 times in several hundred fights, and thats with only the initial taunt from the pull. This spell is going straight from obvlivion back to my hotbar, great advice! __________________ Malk 50 Paladin - GUK Aei Desis

02-23-2005, 11:06 PM	#14
Pnaxx Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,124	scribles notes looks forward to using redemption drinks beer

02-23-2005, 11:40 PM	#15
ghosthamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 100	I never use it, if im tanking i have stance on, vigor of trust on myself (a must for soloers) and have 1 slot left, which goes to glorious weapon for that lil proc. Never found myself losing aggro When MT, keeping divin inspiration up.....last 10mins ,no concentration slots and gives u 5% hate, yes only 5% hate, but that is 5% of every group member's hate. If your MT and have trouble holding aggro(how?) let your groups allow you to cast a quick HO finishing it with the taunt before they start hitting the target hard.

02-24-2005, 12:45 AM	#16
Hawkt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 92	I use Redpemtion all the time in groups. Throw it on the charecter getting agro, and enjoy it. __________________ Hawktel. Permafrost.

02-24-2005, 01:08 AM	#17
Hroga Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 45	In fact, mine may be an App 1. I'll remedy that tonight and see whether it becomes more viable. Thanks!

02-24-2005, 01:53 AM	#18
uzhiel feathered serpe Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 461	Remember that although we can use buffs as hate generators they do not accrue as much hate as DPS and they are mana burning machines. Casting redemption will save time, mana, and lives! I agree with Tuc Uzhiel. lvl 45 Paladin, Faydark. Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 02-23-2005 01:00 PM

02-24-2005, 04:26 AM	#19
Talbot Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 63	Redemption, yes it works. At adept 3, I can tell you grouping with an equal level wizzie, I HAD to do it, granted he was nuke happy, but he was just happy to be able to dish out that much damage. hehehe, so I just asked hime to tone down damage a smiggen and he happily did so. Now when I say he was dealing out damage, using combat stats, His damage output doubled the amount of damage I took. If he started nuking without me getting the first taunt off he died. Then we would rez him and go back at it. He finally worked into a flow and all was great. Sure, you can run without redemption. Just power dump the mobs, you probably won't lose agro doing it either, but you will burn your power out with a quickness. When fighting an epic mob or above you want your damage to be steady and same with power consumption. If you power dump, your risk dieing at an awkward point. Pallys, are wonderful tanks and if your aren't using all your tools to begin with, you really can't complain about much.

02-24-2005, 06:40 AM	#20
Korpo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,141	I upgraded mine to app4 (haven't seen an adept on the broker yet) and it transfers 32%. If a master is only 37%, probably not worth it to get upgraded to ad3, probably transfer 35% or so.In any case, I'm lvl 41 and use it all the time. I usually put the training self buff on myself for str/agi/sta/wis, then redemption on the main healer and main nuker, or if there are two big nukers, they get it. With them generating that much hate for me I can practically stand there doing nothing and hold agro. With my standard taunts and stuns and damage, it's a cakewalk.Against something like a huge raid mob, if I'm tanking, I'd probably throw on KS or SB just for the extra defense skill and maybe redemption on the big nuker. If you have enough group buffs the self buff doesn't do all that much more, and the stun proc thing doesn't hit very often vs. something raid level. If I'm not tanking, I'll throw redemption on the two biggest nukers or healers and the buff on the MT. That way if they're nuking like crazy, the worst that can happen is I get agro. At least I can hold for a few hits, unlike them. __________________

02-24-2005, 02:25 PM	#21
roma Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	I do agree with Ghosthammer. I currently use exactly the same buff/ward configuration. KS to soften the healer's job, Vigor of Trust and Divine Inspiration to regain partially what i lose in offense with KS on and usually Glorious Weapon. Before the fight i also cast Blessing of the Penitent for those extra HP's; Faithful Zeal, and Toughness (grey to me now but still of good use). I hardly lose aggro and if it happens i use all the taunting spells i have atm: Inflame, Blinding Light and, finally, Shout if the first two don't work but the first taunt is normally enough to accrue hate. If i am in danger of losing the healer or nuker then shoot quickly a Faithful Zeal on him/her and start healing with Blessed Aid or Penitent Sacrament. Lastly, if all my taunting options fail (very rarely thou) i cast hate accrue spells such as Righteous Anger or its upgrade and Oath Strike. I noticed that it usually works with Divine Vengeance even though you should look around yourself before trigging the AoE spells. However, the Redemption spell seems interesting and if many of you use it then there must be a reason so I'll give it a try tonight. It's nice to have such forums where people with different opinions meet and discuss. I always find something new and interesting to try following other people ideas. Thanks guys, great forum for real Paladins PS: oh, btw, have you ever used Rescue??? That's another mistery among my spells...

02-24-2005, 08:28 PM	#22
Ma Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 55	I use rescue the few times ive lost agro and taunts wont get it back, allthough it wont get agro back in every situation it is a quite powerful taunt. __________________ Malk 50 Paladin - GUK Aei Desis

02-25-2005, 12:28 AM	#23
Hawkt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 92	I was grouped with a equal level bezerker, I was using Knights stance, Glorius weapon, and Vigor, and was the main tank. The bezerker was really pushing me, and getting agro nearly every fight, with me hammering the all taunts, and ending with no power left. I swapped to Shining Beacon, and Redemption on him, and it was night and day. I didn't even need to hit the taunts more than once per fight. Redemption is your friend when you have a agro getting person. __________________ Hawktel. Permafrost.