Fluff spells

[Abominati]

Anybody else wanna actually say that fluff spells are the problem and not the fact that we have a horse.. make the fluff spells no longer fluff  give the other classes something of use for their fluff, a bird that helps power regen for casters etc.. fluff spells are the problem and everyone is just upset because ours is useful, so if we got horse as a lvl 34 non fluff spell it would be ok? People seem to scream and use the excuse that its a fluff spell and should be USELESS, sounds like bad programming and the outcry should be directed elsewhere.....

My solution calls for the horse to be moved to atleast lvl 40 and maybe even then as quested, thus keeping noobs from picking class only for the free horse and still giving an option for keeping the class as intended a mounted knight. Other classes should also get an archetype quest at 40 to receive an equally valuable result not fluff that turns group memebers into aliens or gives a lackey to run along beside ya and cause things to aggro group but a useful spell....

My reasoning for this comes from EQ1 where as paladin and SK could get a free horse thru skill points etc and just how rewarding this was to those playing these classes..... Should rogues have their pathfinding stripped because they didnt choose bard, should shaman and druids have to sell sows like in EQ .... if so no more horse for me and WTB SOW paying 2G

[Gaige]

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Abomination wrote:

Anybody else wanna actually say that fluff spells are the problem and not the fact that we have a horse.. make the fluff spells no longer fluff  give the other classes something of use for their fluff, a bird that helps power regen for casters etc.. fluff spells are the problem and everyone is just upset because ours is useful, so if we got horse as a lvl 34 non fluff spell it would be ok? People seem to scream and use the excuse that its a fluff spell and should be USELESS, sounds like bad programming and the outcry should be directed elsewhere.....

My solution calls for the horse to be moved to atleast lvl 40 and maybe even then as quested, thus keeping noobs from picking class only for the free horse and still giving an option for keeping the class as intended a mounted knight. Other classes should also get an archetype quest at 40 to receive an equally valuable result not fluff that turns group memebers into aliens or gives a lackey to run along beside ya and cause things to aggro group but a useful spell....

My reasoning for this comes from EQ1 where as paladin and SK could get a free horse thru skill points etc and just how rewarding this was to those playing these classes..... Should rogues have their pathfinding stripped because they didnt choose bard, should shaman and druids have to sell sows like in EQ .... if so no more horse for me and WTB SOW paying 2G

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No because pathfinding is an inherent designed skill of the class.  SK/Pally weren't designed with a speed buff.

[Lawman]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

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Abomination wrote:

Anybody else wanna actually say that fluff spells are the problem and not the fact that we have a horse.. make the fluff spells no longer fluff  give the other classes something of use for their fluff, a bird that helps power regen for casters etc.. fluff spells are the problem and everyone is just upset because ours is useful, so if we got horse as a lvl 34 non fluff spell it would be ok? People seem to scream and use the excuse that its a fluff spell and should be USELESS, sounds like bad programming and the outcry should be directed elsewhere.....

My solution calls for the horse to be moved to atleast lvl 40 and maybe even then as quested, thus keeping noobs from picking class only for the free horse and still giving an option for keeping the class as intended a mounted knight. Other classes should also get an archetype quest at 40 to receive an equally valuable result not fluff that turns group memebers into aliens or gives a lackey to run along beside ya and cause things to aggro group but a useful spell....

My reasoning for this comes from EQ1 where as paladin and SK could get a free horse thru skill points etc and just how rewarding this was to those playing these classes..... Should rogues have their pathfinding stripped because they didnt choose bard, should shaman and druids have to sell sows like in EQ .... if so no more horse for me and WTB SOW paying 2G

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No because pathfinding is an inherent designed skill of the class.  SK/Pally weren't designed with a speed buff.

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Theres Gage... I knew you would post on that one... lol

Sure speed buffs were build into your class... in EQ1...  You got the same thing in EQ2...   But, we Pallys cant have our horse because somehow people associated it with and are calling it a "Fluff Spell".   It isnt a fluff spell.  Ill use your terminology:  "Holy Steed is an inherent designed Feature of the class".   Heck, look at the name... lol   Holy Steed... Paladins... Holy Fighters...

Paladins get Pets/Familiars in D&D.   I dont see familiars or pets for pallys in EQ1... or EQ2 for that matter... 

But WAIT!!  Heres one for you.

It would be an easier argument to call a Holy Steed a familiar.  If it was, would the classes that get familiars complain about it?  You bet.  Would the classes that didnt get a familiar complain about it as being unfair because we got one and they didnt?  You bet!

It would also be easier to argue that our horse be called a Pet.  If it was, would the classes that get pets complain about it?  You bet.  Would the classes that didnt get a pet complain about it as being unfair that we got one and they didnt?  You bet!

NOW.. let me tell you what happened.

Our HOLY STEED got nerfed because someone decided to call it a "Fluff Spell" and associate it with everyone elses "Fluff Spell".  Then the classes that didnt get something equal to or better than our "Class Feature" as their "Fluff Spell" they complained.  And some fu..  *Deleted what I really feel about it, Id like the post to stay* .... person at SoE bought it hook line and sinker.  Apparently this person had no clue what the Features of a Paladin are, eh?

Wizards Familiars increase mana pools in EQ1.. (I think I heard that somewhere, I really dont know for sure, I dont play finger wigglers) If this is true, where are all the other finger wigglers calling for a nerf on that?  Nope... its a feature of the class.

Enchanters can have Pets... were the other classes that have pets complaining?  Nope...  feature of the class.

Paladins get a holy steed in EQ1... fastest horse in the game..   Are they calling for a Nerf of that in EQ1?  Nope... feature of the class.  Shall we go on?

The Whole point is this:

Just because it was in one game or another, doesnt necessarily mean it will be in another game... and that goes for your pathfinding (speed buff) too..

Someone at SoE failed to realize what "Class Features" are and decided to go along with the "Fluff Spell" theory.  They caved in and gave our "Class Feature" a nice whack with the Nerf Bat.

But, as to the original posted idea of giving everyone a useful spell at level 20, I posted that idea a looooong time ago..  and it got ignored, as per usual.  I think its a great idea..

There... now lets argue back and forth about it for 40 freakin pages, shall we? LOL

 

[Gaige]

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Lawman wrote:

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

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Abomination wrote:

Anybody else wanna actually say that fluff spells are the problem and not the fact that we have a horse.. make the fluff spells no longer fluff  give the other classes something of use for their fluff, a bird that helps power regen for casters etc.. fluff spells are the problem and everyone is just upset because ours is useful, so if we got horse as a lvl 34 non fluff spell it would be ok? People seem to scream and use the excuse that its a fluff spell and should be USELESS, sounds like bad programming and the outcry should be directed elsewhere.....

My solution calls for the horse to be moved to atleast lvl 40 and maybe even then as quested, thus keeping noobs from picking class only for the free horse and still giving an option for keeping the class as intended a mounted knight. Other classes should also get an archetype quest at 40 to receive an equally valuable result not fluff that turns group memebers into aliens or gives a lackey to run along beside ya and cause things to aggro group but a useful spell....

My reasoning for this comes from EQ1 where as paladin and SK could get a free horse thru skill points etc and just how rewarding this was to those playing these classes..... Should rogues have their pathfinding stripped because they didnt choose bard, should shaman and druids have to sell sows like in EQ .... if so no more horse for me and WTB SOW paying 2G

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No because pathfinding is an inherent designed skill of the class.  SK/Pally weren't designed with a speed buff.

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Theres Gage... I knew you would post on that one... lol

But, as to the original posted idea of giving everyone a useful spell at level 20, I posted that idea a looooong time ago..  and it got ignored, as per usual.  I think its a great idea..

There... now lets argue back and forth about it for 40 freakin pages, shall we? LOL

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I hope not I'm pretty tired of talking about horses.

I'd be on your side, but SoE said it was a spell that was supposed to have no benefit, in fact your classes lvl 20 "fluff" spell.  Its kind of hard to argue with the designers.

If you guys want to try to get it moved to a different lvl and be an inherent skill, fine I'm all for it and I hope you get it.

Wasn't the EQ1 horse like lvl 65+ with a ton of AAs or something?

 

[adrian]

If my ranger could ride his summoned fluff Hunting Hawk for a 10% speed bonus, I'd be doing backflips of joy.Palis should feel hard done by, but not to this degree. This fluff nerf by no means shackles you to a horseless living. It does rbing you back to the pack, and that is going to hurt when you get used to such a cool feature. I don't think the horse should have been hobbled quite this much, but in effect, it still offers an advantage over any other class. The status symbol of climbing up on that horse is still what it was, though Pali's may now see their horses as an insult rather than the cool eye-candy they are supposed to be. For a Pali, a horse is a class defining feature, adn should absolutely be part of the experience, but that doesn't mean it should be a instantly delivered right for all. Palis should go through the same rigors all do to get an uber horse, but I feel that the payoff there should be higher. They should be able to get steeds beyond the reach of other classes, and I don't think anyone would begrudge a high level horse upgrade for the great Palis of the game. This doesn't mean however, that they should instantly gain a huge advantage from 20 onwards. The game was stacked in their favour, and that should have been addressed long before now. To keep it going for this long, only to rip it away is pretty heartbreaking for those that love the class. Hopefully, they will be able to go forward, and still play the class, and not just dump it because of a fluff spell nerf. I think EQ2 will lose some Paladins, and will gain less in the future. Since the game was already flooded with them to begin with, I think even the strongest critic of the nerf will admit it will offer a bit of help to a flooded class. It does suck for this to happen, and how it has gone through is pretty average. What is most dissapointing though, is the near sexual pleasure some other players are taking in the horses demise. You'd think that every other player in the game was soo enviious and hateful, that they'd want anyone but themselves hobbled to ensure they get to watch them all cry. The EQ2 Community has felt a bit more like a school yard for the last day or two, with us vs them nonsense... hopefully everyone moves on with their characters lives sooner rather than later

[HordesLo]

            I think the main reason everyone is mad about the horse is because their so called fluff garbage don`t do anything useful. They should fix that and make them useful instead of nerfing horses. I mean cmon I wouldn`t have even bought the thing if it didn`t have a speed boost. I sure wouldn`t have bought it for the looks since it looks like a carnival horrse and not something you would see a paladin on.

 

 

             Lets also think for a moment that the reason the paladin horse had speed on it wasn`t a mistake. I beleive it was intentional. SOE can make excuses all they want. The only reason this subject is here is because everyone else who isn`t a paladin is mad they have a crap spell at lvl 20. Don`t cry for the paladins to get nerfed, go cry to SOE to give you something that will work for you. If enough people raise a stink they will do it sooner or later.

 

 

               Also too it had been mentioned before paladins shouldn`t get a speed boost from their horse. Yeah right! Thats what it was intended for but SOE didn`t take into account all the whiners that would cry about not having a horse too at lvl 20. Just my opinion there.

[Gaige]

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HordesLord wrote:

          

             Lets also think for a moment that the reason the paladin horse had speed on it wasn`t a mistake. I beleive it was intentional. SOE can make excuses all they want. The only reason this subject is here is because everyone else who isn`t a paladin is mad they have a crap spell at lvl 20. Don`t cry for the paladins to get nerfed, go cry to SOE to give you something that will work for you. If enough people raise a stink they will do it sooner or later.

 

 

               Also too it had been mentioned before paladins shouldn`t get a speed boost from their horse. Yeah right! Thats what it was intended for but SOE didn`t take into account all the whiners that would cry about not having a horse too at lvl 20. Just my opinion there.

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24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

Yeah.

[Aenari]

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adrian76 wrote:
If my ranger could ride his summoned fluff Hunting Hawk for a 10% speed bonus, I'd be doing backflips of joy.

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Really?  Would you still backflip for joy if, while riding your Fluffy Hunting Hawk of 10%-ness, it didn't stack with pathfinding, you couldn't sprint on it and in fact, if you got into trouble you'd have to tell Fluffy to bugger off before hoofing it on foot?  How useful would that be?

[adrian]

I think you may have missed the sarcasm in my post. I fully sympathise with your situation, but it does not put you in a worse off position that any other class, I was merely using humour to show that you even had a tiny advantage of the fluff nonsense we make do with in non-horsey classes. Obviously this is too touchy an issue to inject a joke or two into, so I guess the points I tried to make in the rest of the post were lost in translation too

[Lawman]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

I hope not I'm pretty tired of talking about horses.

I'd be on your side, but SoE said it was a spell that was supposed to have no benefit, in fact your classes lvl 20 "fluff" spell.  Its kind of hard to argue with the designers.

If you guys want to try to get it moved to a different lvl and be an inherent skill, fine I'm all for it and I hope you get it.

Wasn't the EQ1 horse like lvl 65+ with a ton of AAs or something?

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We will agree to disagree.  We had a class defining feature relegated to being called Fluff.  I cannot be swayed on that stance.

 

I dont even want a fluff spell... why?  Because it does you no good.. hehe..  we will agree on that.

 

But yes, should it be a series of level-restricted quests making it more powerful along the way to 50?  Sure!!!

 

 

EQ1 Horse was an AA Horse, attainable when you started AA'ing, if I remember... 51?  Its been awhile... they nerfed pallys into insignifigance, so I retired my 67 PAL... tired of sitting LFG for hours, and gettin passed up for 60 Warriors instead.  Took all my PAL equipment and either sold it or put it on a cleric I have.  Now, hes got 500K and FT15 at 60   I dont have problems looking for a group anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lawman]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

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Youre calling the Crusader Horse "Fluff" again..

Its not Fluff.

 

[Gaige]

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Lawman wrote:

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

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Youre calling the Crusader Horse "Fluff" again..

Its not Fluff.

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Semantics, I know.  I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying, I'm just pointing out the (as of now) facts of the spell.  I hope that you guys can get it pushed to a normal spell, or have the sprint ability added while mounted or something.

[Coyt]

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adrian76 wrote:
If my ranger could ride his summoned fluff Hunting Hawk for a 10% speed bonus, I'd be doing backflips of joy.

Ok here we go again, I wish your hawk gave you a 10% speed bonus too , and prevented you from sprinting just like the horse then after you realised that you can no longer out run hostiles that hawk would NEVER see the light of day again.  How many backflips can we expect at this point ?

Palis should feel hard done by, but not to this degree. This fluff nerf by no means shackles you to a horseless living. It does rbing you back to the pack, and that is going to hurt when you get used to such a cool feature. I don't think the horse should have been hobbled quite this much, but in effect, it still offers an advantage over any other class. The status symbol of climbing up on that horse is still what it was, though Pali's may now see their horses as an insult rather than the cool eye-candy they are supposed to be. For a Pali, a horse is a class defining feature, adn should absolutely be part of the experience, but that doesn't mean it should be a instantly delivered right for all. Palis should go through the same rigors all do to get an uber horse, but I feel that the payoff there should be higher. They should be able to get steeds beyond the reach of other classes, and I don't think anyone would begrudge a high level horse upgrade for the great Palis of the game. This doesn't mean however, that they should instantly gain a huge advantage from 20 onwards. The game was stacked in their favour, and that should have been addressed long before now. To keep it going for this long, only to rip it away is pretty heartbreaking for those that love the class. Hopefully, they will be able to go forward, and still play the class, and not just dump it because of a fluff spell nerf.

I think EQ2 will lose some Paladins, and will gain less in the future. Since the game was already flooded with them to begin with, I think even the strongest critic of the nerf will admit it will offer a bit of help to a flooded class.

Because you have a small point here I will agree, but as a 27 Pally I wish they would take it out not ruin it to the point of detriment. After the patch my horse, whom I have become quite attached to will never leave the stable as he will be a liability.

It does suck for this to happen, and how it has gone through is pretty average. What is most dissapointing though, is the near sexual pleasure some other players are taking in the horses demise. You'd think that every other player in the game was soo enviious and hateful, that they'd want anyone but themselves hobbled to ensure they get to watch them all cry. The EQ2 Community has felt a bit more like a school yard for the last day or two, with us vs them nonsense... hopefully everyone moves on with their characters lives sooner rather than later

I totaly agree with you here. The only reason I post here is the desperate hope that the devs will read this and realise that while the horse may never have been intended to give a boost or generate such a negative reaction from a few. Being benificial is part of the image why else would anyone ride a horse? It has become a coveted and truely apreciated part of most Paladins image and sense of self. The so called correction is not, its worse its intentionaly breaking Holy Steed and making it the only self de-buff in the game, please dont be fooled by the 10% speed increase its more like a 22% decrease in maximum speed.

Those who are determined to see this through will continue ignore this mathmatical fact and may succeeed in utterly destroying the most flavorfull flavor spell in the game to the point making it no only useless, but un-useable.  So ill say it again. Leave it or take it out. Please dont humiliate and endanger the Paladin class by giving us an inferior horse I think most of us wouldnt want it and im sure even those that say they do will realise that looking like we are mounted is not worth exp-debt. 

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[Coyt]

News from the test server is we can sprint,  so problem solved I guess, Thanks SOE I feel better.

[Big Da]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

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Youre calling the Crusader Horse "Fluff" again..

Its not Fluff.

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No it isn’t fluff, that’s the problem people have.

I suppose if you were paying bills and accidentally wrote a greater amount than intended on a cheque you’d just overpay all your bills, yep that’s they way to solve it!

You can still have a horse! You get a basic one for free! You just have to pay for the good ones! We all can! Now you can sprint on it! Woot!

Be happy, life is too short! :smileyhappy:

[ECDMupp]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

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Jealous? :smileysurprised:

[ECDMupp]

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

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Lawman wrote:

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Gage-Mikel wrote:

24 classes with around 50 fluff spells.  Two of them provided a benefit, and 48 of them didn't.

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Youre calling the Crusader Horse "Fluff" again..

Its not Fluff.

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Semantics, I know.  I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying, I'm just pointing out the (as of now) facts of the spell.  I hope that you guys can get it pushed to a normal spell, or have the sprint ability added while mounted or something.

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Gage, if you agree that we should have a horse that is useful, why are you playing devil's advocate on every one of these threads? You're acting like SOE should be in charge of this game. That's simply not the case. The players should have input on the paths their characters take (if they change at all, this stupid game should have been balanced before they started making people pay to play it).

 

As for me, I'm not having fun playing this game anymore. I'm tired of paying money to beta test SOE's game for them. The camps are too long (when they're not broken). the crafting is too boring (when it's not broken). The uber items are only a reprentation of your tolerance for boredom in this game, and the developers seem to be breaking more things than they fix with every patch. Despite what you may think, there are games out there in which that is not the case. Wish me luck.

 

No, you cannot have my stuff. It's almost all attuned anyway.

[Gaige]

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ECDMuppet wrote:

Gage, if you agree that we should have a horse that is useful, why are you playing devil's advocate on every one of these threads? You're acting like SOE should be in charge of this game. That's simply not the case. The players should have input on the paths their characters take (if they change at all, this stupid game should have been balanced before they started making people pay to play it).

 

As for me, I'm not having fun playing this game anymore. I'm tired of paying money to beta test SOE's game for them. The camps are too long (when they're not broken). the crafting is too boring (when it's not broken). The uber items are only a reprentation of your tolerance for boredom in this game, and the developers seem to be breaking more things than they fix with every patch. Despite what you may think, there are games out there in which that is not the case. Wish me luck.

 

No, you cannot have my stuff. It's almost all attuned anyway.

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I 100% absolutely disagree with players having too much of a say in how the game is balanced, because everyone wants their class to be the best.

SWG and player jedi/bounty hunters more than proved that to me, it cemented it my mind FOREVER.

SoE is, and will continue to be in charge of this game forever, deal with it or leave

If you aren't having fun, there are plenty of options out there for you.  If you feel like you are paying to beta test, then MMOs aren't for you, I've played plenty of them and they are all the same.

I do wish you luck, but I assume you are going to WoW, which I have a lvl 60 in, and although its good, it has its own problems and nerf criers and everything else.  You may find your spot there, and I wish you well, but don't expect it to be totally different.

Besides, you guys got the ability to sprint and take advantage of speed buffs while on your house, and 10% on top of it... so your fluff spell is still better than everyone else's

 

Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 02-16-2005 11:51 AM

[GilfalasElaandrin]

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Besides, you guys got the ability to sprint and take advantage of speed buffs while on your house, and 10% on top of it... so your fluff spell is still better than everyone else's

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Well arguably the pets can in certain situations be usefull for tanking things or when running away, but that is neither here nor there.

 

But, like Gage, I think we simply had a nice error that is now getting fixed and we should be thankful we had free access to something none of us should have had for so long as we did. I am glad they are allowing sprint on all mounts and that will go a long way to making our fluff spell (and yes it is, was and shall remain our fluff spell. It was labeled that by SOE and they wrote the game, deal with it) into something that can be used and fun witthout increasing the danger of travel while doing so.

 

I am also intrigued by the suggestion someone made in another thread that was basically that a Paladin could upgrade his holy steed in the same way that anyone else can buy a horse, but it would be a steed upgrade and not require us to have he whistle to summon. We would pay the same exact amount to get a certain speed 'holy steed' as someone who bought that same speed horse would, but it would upgrade our ability.

 

Don't let the greedy folks get you down Gage. You've been 100% right IMO the entire time. It is pretty clear you have an eye open for game balance and what is just plain fair, as oposed to 'what is best for me' like many in these threads.