horse nerf

TerasDeathBla · 02-14-2005, 02:30 PM

yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it

the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place.

monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills.

and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks.

what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it

prisoner · 02-14-2005, 02:58 PM

Do we really need more posts justifying this?

Gurl · 02-14-2005, 08:17 PM

TerasDeathBlade wrote:
yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it

the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place.

monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills.

and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks.

what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it

Ok .. you proven youself and one of the "whiners" look at your char list. " i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal . . . " more prof your not a pally...Now run back to your forums and rant there.

vwlsskng · 02-14-2005, 10:14 PM

It's nice to see that the Paladin's one-starred your whining Monk [Removed for Content], too.

Coyt · 02-14-2005, 10:43 PM

TerasDeathBlade wrote:

yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it

the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place.

monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills.

and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks.

what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it

Your right it never should have been a fluff spell.

ECDMupp · 02-14-2005, 11:03 PM

TerasDeathBlade wrote:

yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it

the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place.

monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills.

and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks.

what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it

/nice on

Perhaps to help you understand our point of view better, an explanation is in order.

The paladin horse before the proposed fix is 32% faster than running. there is no sprint, and you cannot be speed buffed on horseback. I am consistently passed by people using wolf totems and/or PF/SoW and/or other run buffs.

The paladin horse after the proposed patch will be 10% faster than normal running. there will be no sprint, and no runn buffs while on this horse. This makes the horse not faster, but slower than everything else in the game. A crusader on his horse will be completely vulnerable to random attacks, and unless the crusader dismounts, he cannot sprint away. Your kata does not prevent you from sprinting or deny you other run buffs.

Throughout the history of roleplaying games, paladins and shadowknights have had horses; typically the fastest of horses. It's no more greedy or unreasonable for paladins and SK's to ask for a horse than it is for your monk to ask for the ability to kick stuff.

[//bug: Bull[ThroggNerfed!] > maxtolerableBull[ThroggNerfed!]. nice disabled]

/nice off

/sarcasm on

I suppose it's good revenge on us evil paladins/SK's for having a trademark RP aspect of our characters actually be useful. Good, sweet revenge, indeed. Forget the fact that you can buy our skill easily after you reach the appropriate level, and even more easily if you're in a decent guild. Forget the fact that is is the slowest horse in the game, although I'd expect a mounted holy/unholy knight to have the fastest horse in the game, myself. That is much more in line class' characteristics if you look at any RP game out there. Forget the fact that half the classes in the game get some kind of run buff.

[ThroggNerfed!] us to hell for having something that costs you money given to us for free. We're so evil. You know we laugh at you all the time, looking down on you from atop of our mighty steeds that you can buy for what you will soon consider to be a pittance. How dare we have something so unbalancing that it's available to any character in the game! How dare we think we should have a horse?! I mean, Paladins and Shadowknights have NEVER had horses in other games! If we wanted a horse, we should have chosen a tradeskill so we could make lotsa money and buy one!

Thank you so much for coming here and sharing your infinite wisdom with us! Without you, I wouldn't realize that I'm a greedy [ThroggNerfed!] for not wanting to have my class [Removed for Content]. I an honored that you would chose us lowly paladins to bless with the wisdom of your words. We are so wrong to not have fun when a hallmark of our class is being stripped from us! We should ask the devs to remove horses from the game for us entirely, even from being allowed to purchase one from the stables! I see the light now! Thank you so very much!

In the end, it is so obvious that you and your ilk are just jealous that you should be typing in green. But fear not! your incessant whining has caught the attention of the powers that be. Now, after this patch, I'd give anything in the world to have your kata because at least it won't kill me to use it. If this patch goes through, you will have your sweet revenge for all of my having fun at your expense because I'm such a L337 d00d 'sploiter, and only played a paladin to get my 'sploiter horse (I chose crusader before I knew they even got horses).

P.S. I know this is a stupid question, but if you know you're going to get flamed and 1 starred, why do you post something? Your posting history shows that of your 500+ posts, you have an average rating of 2 stars. You must be a real [ThroggNerfed!]hole.

/feedthetroll off

Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 11:01 AM

ECDMupp · 02-14-2005, 11:04 PM

Double post.

Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 10:04 AM

Coyt · 02-15-2005, 12:03 AM

The real issue for me;

I have grown quite fond of my Pally he is my favorite. Since I read about the speed change in the Holy Steed something has been bothering me.

I have read and read and understand the whole Fluff spell issue. But there is another bigger issue here.

Its the image , I love the whole Knight in shinning armor image the Pally portrays. The Horse is the cherry on top It completed the image bravo for that.

Now if the speed is reduced to 10% (this sounds acceptable at first) and not allowing sprint (30% speed increase) I cant ride it. Why ?

First I cant outrun aggro, period. Second I cant keep up with my group, odds are they will have Pathfinding or SoW. So im being forced off my horse.

Thats my issue. I want to ride my horse. And I wont be able to, solo or grouped. It is effectively useless. Not "no gain" useless Broken detrimental useless.

Like many others I started playing my Pally not knowing about the horse but having had it since 20 I cant imagine not being able to ride it. Im sure I will feel like a gimped warrior wondering why I cant have a pole arm. It made him special and in a world where most tanks have the same or similar armor. The only way you can tell me apart is im the big guy with the little sheild.

So tell me I can sprint while mounted at least. Or take it out Because I wont be able to ride it. And give me something to make me feel like a noble Paladin.

Something that makes easier to play second fiddle to the Gaurdians out there with their tower sheilds or polearms.

Now im not going to quit the game or anything I love EQ2 its more of a place to me then a game. And while it wont destroy the Paladin for me it will set it back a notch.

I wonder how many others feel the same way because it was hard to put my finger on why it bothered me.

Thanks for reading my thaughts.

dpsman · 02-15-2005, 12:12 AM

Hmmm,

Well do what most of us do with our fluff spells, unmem it and dont use it.. I f you want a horse do what most other classes do go buy 1.

ECDMupp · 02-15-2005, 12:12 AM

Coytee wrote:

The real issue for me;

I have grown quite fond of my Pally he is my favorite. Since I read about the speed change in the Holy Steed something has been bothering me.

I have read and read and understand the whole Fluff spell issue. But there is another bigger issue here.

Its the image , I love the whole Knight in shinning armor image the Pally portrays. The Horse is the cherry on top It completed the image bravo for that.

Now if the speed is reduced to 10% (this sounds acceptable at first) and not allowing sprint (30% speed increase) I cant ride it. Why ?

First I cant outrun aggro, period. Second I cant keep up with my group, odds are they will have Pathfinding or SoW. So im being forced off my horse.

Thats my issue. I want to ride my horse. And I wont be able to, solo or grouped. It is effectively useless. Not "no gain" useless Broken detrimental useless.

Like many others I started playing my Pally not knowing about the horse but having had it since 20 I cant imagine not being able to ride it. Im sure I will feel like a gimped warrior wondering why I cant have a pole arm. It made him special and in a world where most tanks have the same or similar armor. The only way you can tell me apart is im the big guy with the little sheild.

So tell me I can sprint while mounted at least. Or take it out Because I wont be able to ride it. And give me something to make me feel like a noble Paladin.

Something that makes easier to play second fiddle to the Gaurdians out there with their tower sheilds or polearms.

Now im not going to quit the game or anything I love EQ2 its more of a place to me then a game. And while it wont destroy the Paladin for me it will set it back a notch.

I wonder how many others feel the same way because it was hard to put my finger on why it bothered me.

Thanks for reading my thaughts.

Perfect post. 5 stars.

ECDMupp · 02-15-2005, 12:39 AM

dpsman wrote:

Hmmm,

Well do what most of us do with our fluff spells, unmem it and dont use it.. I f you want a horse do what most other classes do go buy 1.

That's it. I'm finished being nice to these people.

Your skull must be made of depleted uranium. I have never seen such a dense bunch of people in my life. You come to this forum and ask us why we're mad that our "fluff" spell was nerfed. Then when we tell you it shouldn't have been a fluff spell in the first place, you say, "well SOE made it a fluff spell so it shouldn't be useful." Now, besides the fact that they made it worse than useless, let me, once again, because you're not listening or reading the other posts here, direct this to you since you can't seem to get this through your lead-thick skull.

A horse is a trademark characteristic of a knight. It defines what the paladin/shadowknight is. Paladins throughout RPG history, from paper to MMO, have had horses. And not just regular horses, but fast [ThroggNerfed!] horses!

Now, I could sit here and beat this fact into your thick head with a shovel until the shovel was perfectly conformed to the shape of your blunt skull, but you will still reply with, "well SOE didn't think so. it was fluff, so it shouldn't be useful because my fluff wasn't". Well, let me TRY to explain this little fact. SOE was wrong, and when they realized that they should leave it in, they said, "We have no plans on changing the crusader horses at this time". But instead of everyone accepting it, and going out and getting a better horse than we had later on, all the dense, short-sighted [ThroggNerfed!] like you screamed at the top of their lungs because we were big sploiters and our bugged horses were making us unbalanced.

Let me repeat myself again since it entertains you so much for me to do so. The horse was not a big deal. It did not give some huge ungodly advantage, or horses would not have been introduced into the game in the first place at any level. If it makes you happy to know (which I'm sure it does because you're obviously a griefer), I still die on horseback! There's this thing called stun. Mobs can cast this on player characters and make even a mighty exploit like my tier 1 horse stop in it's tracks. To make you feel better, I'll have you know that I died 7 times in zek trying to finish the zek run for my Jboots quest. That includes failed CR's to try to get my body out from under groups of orcs and treants I tried to run by.

The horse does not make me a god; it does little more than make me look cooler than you. But that's the whole point, isn't it? My toon looked cooler than yours, and you couldn't stand it, so you had to whine until they fixed the big bad bug.

Loser.

Coyt · 02-15-2005, 12:45 AM

Thanks for the support ECDMuppet , I wasnt even going to reply to that but your passion is not lost on me.

Lairdragna · 02-15-2005, 01:02 AM

ECD, weren't you the one telling me last week not to flame this fargin idiots? Pretty sure it was YOU! Well welcome to the club brother! I'd rather have you come to the party late than not at all! I'm 5 starrin your post and waiting for the 1 star of mine for watching your back!

ECDMupp · 02-15-2005, 01:21 AM

Lairdragna wrote:

ECD, weren't you the one telling me last week not to flame this fargin idiots? Pretty sure it was YOU! Well welcome to the club brother! I'd rather have you come to the party late than not at all! I'm 5 starrin your post and waiting for the 1 star of mine for watching your back!

yeah, that was me. I have a really high tolerance for bull[ThroggNerfed!], but there's only so much I can absorb. I was about to leave a crater in front of my desk. I'll continue to try to be constructive, but some people just don't want any of that. I feel kinda bad for obliging them by stooping to their level :smileysad:

[edit] LOL! they 1 starred me! nevermind. I'll wear my one star with pride knowing that I completely thrashed them in a real debate, then when they just start random flaming when their brains shut down from the common sense, I beat them at flaming too. Their 1 star is just a recognition of defeat. COME BACK! I'm not through demeaning you yet! :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 12:38 PM

Tar~Palantir · 02-15-2005, 02:43 AM

Just because our lvl 20 reward spell is reasonable cool/useful and (in your opinion) the other class spells suck doesn't mean you have to b1tch and moan till ours is destroyed.

here's the lowdown: as it stands on most servers now:

1 excellent subclass fun spell

a few(2-5) Ok fun spells

lots of garbage spells

On test server(and future on the live servers):

0 excllent spells

a few Ok spells(pally horse now here)

lots of garbage

Great job...is that what you want...the latter list. All SoE is intelligent enough to do is cash checks and collect credit cards. They apparantly can't do simple balancing.

TerasDeathBla · 02-15-2005, 02:43 AM

your arguments saying that your fluff spell actually increases your chance of dying is terrible.

you cant gain the benifits from the speed buffs while on the horse so get off. its not like you are being forced to ride it.

my first character was a paladin actually i dont like the whole religious thing all that much though, so i deleted him. and if you had read my entire post i did say that i would have preferred all the fluff skills to be useful rather then the horse nerfed. and it shouldve been made a regular skill like any other instead of a fluff because paladins are defined by it in this game it seems. and you have to admit that its better the horse then your ability to tank.

TerasDeathBla · 02-15-2005, 02:46 AM

Tar~Palantir wrote:

Just because our lvl 20 reward spell is reasonable cool/useful and (in your opinion) the other class spells suck doesn't mean you have to b1tch and moan till ours is destroyed.

here's the lowdown: as it stands on most servers now:

1 excellent subclass fun spell

a few(2-5) Ok fun spells

lots of garbage spells

On test server(and future on the live servers):

0 excllent spells

a few Ok spells(pally horse now here)

lots of garbage

Great job...is that what you want...the latter list. All SoE is intelligent enough to do is cash checks and collect credit cards. They apparantly can't do simple balancing.

can anyone actually read...i didnt want it to be nerfed i wanted all the other fluff skills to be usefull im sorry that your best skill as you see it is being nerfed but that is not my intention you can check every post i have ever written and you will never see one of them saying that i want the horses nerfed in any way.

Tar~Palantir · 02-15-2005, 02:47 AM

Oh yes ignorant non-paladin spamming the paladin forums. Our ability to tank has been steadily eroded by weapon loss, shield restrictions, lousy buffs etc. Also in the eyes of group leaders we are not choice tanks because we lack the title "guardian". So we have lost(and will continue to lose) tanking abilities and we are soon to lose our horse. Congratulations flamers you have set in motion something that cannot be undone...the nerf bat is out and will keep swinging leaving in its wake useless and weak classes.

Coyt · 02-15-2005, 02:59 AM

TerasDeathBlade wrote:

your arguments saying that your fluff spell actually increases your chance of dying is terrible.

you cant gain the benifits from the speed buffs while on the horse so get off. its not like you are being forced to ride it.

my first character was a paladin actually i dont like the whole religious thing all that much though, so i deleted him. and if you had read my entire post i did say that i would have preferred all the fluff skills to be useful rather then the horse nerfed. and it shouldve been made a regular skill like any other instead of a fluff because paladins are defined by it in this game it seems. and you have to admit that its better the horse then your ability to tank.

How is my argument terrible? Please show the fault in it. anyone who has holy steed knows its right. 10% speed buff + no sprint = sitting duck. Sure I can bail and run but then why have it ? Just take it out. Give me a real fluff spell I can atleast use with out negative reprocussions. They are forcing me Off my horse was my point.

I completely agree , it should never have been a fluff spell. I dont think our views are that different.

TerasDeathBla · 02-15-2005, 03:06 AM

the only thing the horse is useful for is when you are soloing now

Vade · 02-15-2005, 03:14 AM

I can't believe so much time is being wasted talking about this particular change.

Go read the post by Najarati in this thread (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=5259) to see a part of the REAL list of problems that Paladins have.

Hmm... would you rather argue the finer points of background material or prior art related to fantasy games and the applicability thereof to EQ2, or would you rather discuss real problems like broken skills or general ineffectiveness compared to other classes?

Or, perhaps a good rousing discussion whether the mane and tail of the current Paladin horse was braided correctly, or that the saddle on said horse is of the Western style and would not have been invented in the Early Middle Age period from whence the knight in shining armor archtype was drawn from... the mind boggles with all the important things we could talk about!

It was a freeby buff from day one. I for one am impressed with the fact that I managed to use it through 39+ levels without it getting nerfed. I rarely use it any more as it is - targeting from horseback is iffy at best.

There are a dozen good roleplaying reasons you could make up to justify the speed changes to the horse. It was lamed in a recent combat. It has served you faithfully for many years, but is older and slower now than it used to be, and it would be a kindness to put it to pasture to enjoy the remainder of its days in the open field. And so on.

I'll have to save up and buy my horse like everyone else. Now, if they could only concentrate on fixing the important stuff...

Vaden

39 Paladin - Butcherblock

adrian · 02-15-2005, 03:41 AM

I think it is pretty appaling that other classes come here to roll around and soak up the misery of a class that is clearly unhappy with a change in the game. Wheither you believe it was needed or not, enjoying the pain of others makes you appear pretty pety. I have Pali friends, and obviously, they are hurting pretty bad. One thing I can't understand though, is the constant reference to this being a debuff. I wouldn't mind an (unemotional) explaination of this.. I'm not attacking here, just wanting more info on it. If you can still sprint, and use buffs on foot, wouldn't you just ditch the now purely fluff-like ability in order to get the most out of your character anyway? I can't quite understand the bit about this inhibiting the class, when you can still sprint and speed buff on foot. Other than losing the awesome status symbol and pure sex-in-a-bottle nature of horsin' around, is there an unmounted debuff I just don't know about?

ECDMupp · 02-15-2005, 03:43 AM

TerasDeathBlade wrote:

your arguments saying that your fluff spell actually increases your chance of dying is terrible.

you cant gain the benifits from the speed buffs while on the horse so get off. its not like you are being forced to ride it.

my first character was a paladin actually i dont like the whole religious thing all that much though, so i deleted him. and if you had read my entire post i did say that i would have preferred all the fluff skills to be useful rather then the horse nerfed. and it shouldve been made a regular skill like any other instead of a fluff because paladins are defined by it in this game it seems. and you have to admit that its better the horse then your ability to tank.

Exactly. I'm being forced NOT to ride it because of the risks associated. You are free to use your fluff spell whenever and wherever you want to without the risk of dying. Thank you for proving my argument for me.

ECDMupp · 02-15-2005, 03:50 AM

adrian76 wrote:
I think it is pretty appaling that other classes come here to roll around and soak up the misery of a class that is clearly unhappy with a change in the game. Wheither you believe it was needed or not, enjoying the pain of others makes you appear pretty pety.

I have Pali friends, and obviously, they are hurting pretty bad. One thing I can't understand though, is the constant reference to this being a debuff. I wouldn't mind an (unemotional) explaination of this.. I'm not attacking here, just wanting more info on it. If you can still sprint, and use buffs on foot, wouldn't you just ditch the now purely fluff-like ability in order to get the most out of your character anyway? I can't quite understand the bit about this inhibiting the class, when you can still sprint and speed buff on foot. Other than losing the awesome status symbol and pure sex-in-a-bottle nature of horsin' around, is there an unmounted debuff I just don't know about?

There is no unmounted debuff, but if a paladin wants to ride around looking like a paladin, he has to suffer the consequences now. My toon doesn't want to run around on foot. he wants to ride his lame half-dead horse. But if he does, he'll have to dismount and sprint on foot if the battle goes badly. He doesn't feel like much of a paladin with a horse that's so slow, he can get off and run faster.

Coyt · 02-15-2005, 04:42 AM

Vaden2 wrote:

I can't believe so much time is being wasted talking about this particular change.

Go read the post by Najarati in this thread (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=5259) to see a part of the REAL list of problems that Paladins have.

Hmm... would you rather argue the finer points of background material or prior art related to fantasy games and the applicability thereof to EQ2, or would you rather discuss real problems like broken skills or general ineffectiveness compared to other classes?

You want to add another to the list ?

Or, perhaps a good rousing discussion whether the mane and tail of the current Paladin horse was braided correctly, or that the saddle on said horse is of the Western style and would not have been invented in the Early Middle Age period from whence the knight in shining armor archtype was drawn from... the mind boggles with all the important things we could talk about!

Actually now that you mention is the french poodle looking My Little Pony styling should be replaced with a plain white charger thanks for asking.

It was a freeby buff from day one. I for one am impressed with the fact that I managed to use it through 39+ levels without it getting nerfed. I rarely use it any more as it is - targeting from horseback is iffy at best.

A horse with no speed increase is not a horse its a liability. What more can i say?

There are a dozen good roleplaying reasons you could make up to justify the speed changes to the horse. It was lamed in a recent combat. It has served you faithfully for many years, but is older and slower now than it used to be, and it would be a kindness to put it to pasture to enjoy the remainder of its days in the open field. And so on.

Thats just sad. If its no big deal and easily worked in. . . you ride it.

I'll have to save up and buy my horse like everyone else. Now, if they could only concentrate on fixing the important stuff...

Uh, you can. Seems silly that I have to point that out. If you cant read your post and see the "Its not my problem what the hell do I care stop complainning" additude then there is nothing to say. You got your use out of it , why cant I ?

Vaden

39 Paladin - Butcherblock

Stiderf · 02-16-2005, 10:44 AM

This was the second monk complaint I saw today on the forums

of our Paladin

Cage or Gage something of the sort most of you prob saw earlier the one with the tiger thing at least as of now

and this Arsen person

why all this hatred coming from the monks

monks are supposed to be nicer than that

02-14-2005, 02:30 PM	#1
TerasDeathBla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place. monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills. and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks. what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it __________________

02-14-2005, 08:17 PM	#3
Gurl General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	TerasDeathBlade wrote: yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place. monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills. and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks. what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it Ok .. you proven youself and one of the "whiners" look at your char list. " i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal . . . " more prof your not a pally...Now run back to your forums and rant there. __________________

02-14-2005, 10:43 PM	#5
Coyt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	TerasDeathBlade wrote: yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place. monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills. and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks. what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it Your right it never should have been a fluff spell. __________________ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=315553205

02-14-2005, 11:03 PM	#6
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	TerasDeathBlade wrote: yeah i know i will be flamed for this and i can already see the 1 star ratings but i will still post it the crusader class is the only class that actually gets a useful fluff skill and you still have a useful skill after this new patch coming out the patch notes say it will be lowered to 10% speed increase instead of 32% like before so you will still be outrunning every other class. and its a bloody fluff skill its not supposed to affect you in any way at all the devs have posted that it was a mistake in the first place to give it a speed bonus and that it was supposed to be 0% speed boost in the first place. monks get a fluff skill...kata its a lame skill that shows some kicks. thats it. crusaders get a boost with no downside. if you want the speed boosts walk on the ground and get your shiny boots dirty for once it wont kill you. this should not affect your ability to tank and if it does then there is something wrong with how you play. guardians fluff skill makes their hand glow. it goes away when you use certain skills. and believe me, i would rather have my fluff skill do something beneficial then have yours nerfed but even as it stands the crusader subclasses are the only ones with a useful fluff skill. it should not be special in any way other then for looks. what is the big deal about it? i honestly dont understand why it is such a big deal that you are losing that 22%? when no other class has it /nice on Perhaps to help you understand our point of view better, an explanation is in order. The paladin horse before the proposed fix is 32% faster than running. there is no sprint, and you cannot be speed buffed on horseback. I am consistently passed by people using wolf totems and/or PF/SoW and/or other run buffs. The paladin horse after the proposed patch will be 10% faster than normal running. there will be no sprint, and no runn buffs while on this horse. This makes the horse not faster, but slower than everything else in the game. A crusader on his horse will be completely vulnerable to random attacks, and unless the crusader dismounts, he cannot sprint away. Your kata does not prevent you from sprinting or deny you other run buffs. Throughout the history of roleplaying games, paladins and shadowknights have had horses; typically the fastest of horses. It's no more greedy or unreasonable for paladins and SK's to ask for a horse than it is for your monk to ask for the ability to kick stuff. [//bug: Bull[ThroggNerfed!] > maxtolerableBull[ThroggNerfed!]. nice disabled] /nice off /sarcasm on I suppose it's good revenge on us evil paladins/SK's for having a trademark RP aspect of our characters actually be useful. Good, sweet revenge, indeed. Forget the fact that you can buy our skill easily after you reach the appropriate level, and even more easily if you're in a decent guild. Forget the fact that is is the slowest horse in the game, although I'd expect a mounted holy/unholy knight to have the fastest horse in the game, myself. That is much more in line class' characteristics if you look at any RP game out there. Forget the fact that half the classes in the game get some kind of run buff. [ThroggNerfed!] us to hell for having something that costs you money given to us for free. We're so evil. You know we laugh at you all the time, looking down on you from atop of our mighty steeds that you can buy for what you will soon consider to be a pittance. How dare we have something so unbalancing that it's available to any character in the game! How dare we think we should have a horse?! I mean, Paladins and Shadowknights have NEVER had horses in other games! If we wanted a horse, we should have chosen a tradeskill so we could make lotsa money and buy one! Thank you so much for coming here and sharing your infinite wisdom with us! Without you, I wouldn't realize that I'm a greedy [ThroggNerfed!] for not wanting to have my class [Removed for Content]. I an honored that you would chose us lowly paladins to bless with the wisdom of your words. We are so wrong to not have fun when a hallmark of our class is being stripped from us! We should ask the devs to remove horses from the game for us entirely, even from being allowed to purchase one from the stables! I see the light now! Thank you so very much! In the end, it is so obvious that you and your ilk are just jealous that you should be typing in green. But fear not! your incessant whining has caught the attention of the powers that be. Now, after this patch, I'd give anything in the world to have your kata because at least it won't kill me to use it. If this patch goes through, you will have your sweet revenge for all of my having fun at your expense because I'm such a L337 d00d 'sploiter, and only played a paladin to get my 'sploiter horse (I chose crusader before I knew they even got horses). P.S. I know this is a stupid question, but if you know you're going to get flamed and 1 starred, why do you post something? Your posting history shows that of your 500+ posts, you have an average rating of 2 stars. You must be a real [ThroggNerfed!]hole. /feedthetroll off Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 11:01 AM __________________ Throgg

02-14-2005, 11:04 PM	#7
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Double post. Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 10:04 AM __________________ Throgg

02-14-2005, 02:58 PM	#2
prisoner General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 213	Do we really need more posts justifying this?

02-14-2005, 10:14 PM	#4
vwlsskng Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 710	It's nice to see that the Paladin's one-starred your whining Monk [Removed for Content], too.

02-15-2005, 12:03 AM	#8
Coyt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	The real issue for me; I have grown quite fond of my Pally he is my favorite. Since I read about the speed change in the Holy Steed something has been bothering me. I have read and read and understand the whole Fluff spell issue. But there is another bigger issue here. Its the image , I love the whole Knight in shinning armor image the Pally portrays. The Horse is the cherry on top It completed the image bravo for that. Now if the speed is reduced to 10% (this sounds acceptable at first) and not allowing sprint (30% speed increase) I cant ride it. Why ? First I cant outrun aggro, period. Second I cant keep up with my group, odds are they will have Pathfinding or SoW. So im being forced off my horse. Thats my issue. I want to ride my horse. And I wont be able to, solo or grouped. It is effectively useless. Not "no gain" useless Broken detrimental useless. Like many others I started playing my Pally not knowing about the horse but having had it since 20 I cant imagine not being able to ride it. Im sure I will feel like a gimped warrior wondering why I cant have a pole arm. It made him special and in a world where most tanks have the same or similar armor. The only way you can tell me apart is im the big guy with the little sheild. So tell me I can sprint while mounted at least. Or take it out Because I wont be able to ride it. And give me something to make me feel like a noble Paladin. Something that makes easier to play second fiddle to the Gaurdians out there with their tower sheilds or polearms. Now im not going to quit the game or anything I love EQ2 its more of a place to me then a game. And while it wont destroy the Paladin for me it will set it back a notch. I wonder how many others feel the same way because it was hard to put my finger on why it bothered me. Thanks for reading my thaughts. __________________ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=315553205

02-15-2005, 12:12 AM	#9
dpsman Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 191	Hmmm, Well do what most of us do with our fluff spells, unmem it and dont use it.. I f you want a horse do what most other classes do go buy 1.

02-15-2005, 12:12 AM	#10
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Coytee wrote: The real issue for me; I have grown quite fond of my Pally he is my favorite. Since I read about the speed change in the Holy Steed something has been bothering me. I have read and read and understand the whole Fluff spell issue. But there is another bigger issue here. Its the image , I love the whole Knight in shinning armor image the Pally portrays. The Horse is the cherry on top It completed the image bravo for that. Now if the speed is reduced to 10% (this sounds acceptable at first) and not allowing sprint (30% speed increase) I cant ride it. Why ? First I cant outrun aggro, period. Second I cant keep up with my group, odds are they will have Pathfinding or SoW. So im being forced off my horse. Thats my issue. I want to ride my horse. And I wont be able to, solo or grouped. It is effectively useless. Not "no gain" useless Broken detrimental useless. Like many others I started playing my Pally not knowing about the horse but having had it since 20 I cant imagine not being able to ride it. Im sure I will feel like a gimped warrior wondering why I cant have a pole arm. It made him special and in a world where most tanks have the same or similar armor. The only way you can tell me apart is im the big guy with the little sheild. So tell me I can sprint while mounted at least. Or take it out Because I wont be able to ride it. And give me something to make me feel like a noble Paladin. Something that makes easier to play second fiddle to the Gaurdians out there with their tower sheilds or polearms. Now im not going to quit the game or anything I love EQ2 its more of a place to me then a game. And while it wont destroy the Paladin for me it will set it back a notch. I wonder how many others feel the same way because it was hard to put my finger on why it bothered me. Thanks for reading my thaughts. Perfect post. 5 stars. __________________ Throgg

02-15-2005, 12:39 AM	#11
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	dpsman wrote: Hmmm, Well do what most of us do with our fluff spells, unmem it and dont use it.. I f you want a horse do what most other classes do go buy 1. That's it. I'm finished being nice to these people. Your skull must be made of depleted uranium. I have never seen such a dense bunch of people in my life. You come to this forum and ask us why we're mad that our "fluff" spell was nerfed. Then when we tell you it shouldn't have been a fluff spell in the first place, you say, "well SOE made it a fluff spell so it shouldn't be useful." Now, besides the fact that they made it worse than useless, let me, once again, because you're not listening or reading the other posts here, direct this to you since you can't seem to get this through your lead-thick skull. A horse is a trademark characteristic of a knight. It defines what the paladin/shadowknight is. Paladins throughout RPG history, from paper to MMO, have had horses. And not just regular horses, but fast [ThroggNerfed!] horses! Now, I could sit here and beat this fact into your thick head with a shovel until the shovel was perfectly conformed to the shape of your blunt skull, but you will still reply with, "well SOE didn't think so. it was fluff, so it shouldn't be useful because my fluff wasn't". Well, let me TRY to explain this little fact. SOE was wrong, and when they realized that they should leave it in, they said, "We have no plans on changing the crusader horses at this time". But instead of everyone accepting it, and going out and getting a better horse than we had later on, all the dense, short-sighted [ThroggNerfed!] like you screamed at the top of their lungs because we were big sploiters and our bugged horses were making us unbalanced. Let me repeat myself again since it entertains you so much for me to do so. The horse was not a big deal. It did not give some huge ungodly advantage, or horses would not have been introduced into the game in the first place at any level. If it makes you happy to know (which I'm sure it does because you're obviously a griefer), I still die on horseback! There's this thing called stun. Mobs can cast this on player characters and make even a mighty exploit like my tier 1 horse stop in it's tracks. To make you feel better, I'll have you know that I died 7 times in zek trying to finish the zek run for my Jboots quest. That includes failed CR's to try to get my body out from under groups of orcs and treants I tried to run by. The horse does not make me a god; it does little more than make me look cooler than you. But that's the whole point, isn't it? My toon looked cooler than yours, and you couldn't stand it, so you had to whine until they fixed the big bad bug. Loser. __________________ Throgg

02-15-2005, 12:45 AM	#12
Coyt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Thanks for the support ECDMuppet , I wasnt even going to reply to that but your passion is not lost on me. __________________ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=315553205

02-15-2005, 01:02 AM	#13
Lairdragna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 543	ECD, weren't you the one telling me last week not to flame this fargin idiots? Pretty sure it was YOU! Well welcome to the club brother! I'd rather have you come to the party late than not at all! I'm 5 starrin your post and waiting for the 1 star of mine for watching your back!

02-15-2005, 01:21 AM	#14
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Lairdragna wrote: ECD, weren't you the one telling me last week not to flame this fargin idiots? Pretty sure it was YOU! Well welcome to the club brother! I'd rather have you come to the party late than not at all! I'm 5 starrin your post and waiting for the 1 star of mine for watching your back! yeah, that was me. I have a really high tolerance for bull[ThroggNerfed!], but there's only so much I can absorb. I was about to leave a crater in front of my desk. I'll continue to try to be constructive, but some people just don't want any of that. I feel kinda bad for obliging them by stooping to their level :smileysad: [edit] LOL! they 1 starred me! nevermind. I'll wear my one star with pride knowing that I completely thrashed them in a real debate, then when they just start random flaming when their brains shut down from the common sense, I beat them at flaming too. Their 1 star is just a recognition of defeat. COME BACK! I'm not through demeaning you yet! :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by ECDMuppet on 02-14-2005 12:38 PM __________________ Throgg

02-15-2005, 02:43 AM	#15
Tar~Palantir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 328	Just because our lvl 20 reward spell is reasonable cool/useful and (in your opinion) the other class spells suck doesn't mean you have to b1tch and moan till ours is destroyed. here's the lowdown: as it stands on most servers now: 1 excellent subclass fun spell a few(2-5) Ok fun spells lots of garbage spells On test server(and future on the live servers): 0 excllent spells a few Ok spells(pally horse now here) lots of garbage Great job...is that what you want...the latter list. All SoE is intelligent enough to do is cash checks and collect credit cards. They apparantly can't do simple balancing. __________________ Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.

02-15-2005, 02:46 AM	#17
TerasDeathBla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	Tar~Palantir wrote: Just because our lvl 20 reward spell is reasonable cool/useful and (in your opinion) the other class spells suck doesn't mean you have to b1tch and moan till ours is destroyed. here's the lowdown: as it stands on most servers now: 1 excellent subclass fun spell a few(2-5) Ok fun spells lots of garbage spells On test server(and future on the live servers): 0 excllent spells a few Ok spells(pally horse now here) lots of garbage Great job...is that what you want...the latter list. All SoE is intelligent enough to do is cash checks and collect credit cards. They apparantly can't do simple balancing. can anyone actually read...i didnt want it to be nerfed i wanted all the other fluff skills to be usefull im sorry that your best skill as you see it is being nerfed but that is not my intention you can check every post i have ever written and you will never see one of them saying that i want the horses nerfed in any way. __________________

02-15-2005, 02:47 AM	#18
Tar~Palantir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 328	Oh yes ignorant non-paladin spamming the paladin forums. Our ability to tank has been steadily eroded by weapon loss, shield restrictions, lousy buffs etc. Also in the eyes of group leaders we are not choice tanks because we lack the title "guardian". So we have lost(and will continue to lose) tanking abilities and we are soon to lose our horse. Congratulations flamers you have set in motion something that cannot be undone...the nerf bat is out and will keep swinging leaving in its wake useless and weak classes. __________________ Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.

02-15-2005, 02:59 AM	#19
Coyt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	TerasDeathBlade wrote: your arguments saying that your fluff spell actually increases your chance of dying is terrible. you cant gain the benifits from the speed buffs while on the horse so get off. its not like you are being forced to ride it. my first character was a paladin actually i dont like the whole religious thing all that much though, so i deleted him. and if you had read my entire post i did say that i would have preferred all the fluff skills to be useful rather then the horse nerfed. and it shouldve been made a regular skill like any other instead of a fluff because paladins are defined by it in this game it seems. and you have to admit that its better the horse then your ability to tank. How is my argument terrible? Please show the fault in it. anyone who has holy steed knows its right. 10% speed buff + no sprint = sitting duck. Sure I can bail and run but then why have it ? Just take it out. Give me a real fluff spell I can atleast use with out negative reprocussions. They are forcing me Off my horse was my point. I completely agree , it should never have been a fluff spell. I dont think our views are that different. __________________ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=315553205

02-15-2005, 03:06 AM	#20
TerasDeathBla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	the only thing the horse is useful for is when you are soloing now __________________

02-15-2005, 03:14 AM	#21
Vade Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 22	I can't believe so much time is being wasted talking about this particular change. Go read the post by Najarati in this thread (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=5259) to see a part of the REAL list of problems that Paladins have. Hmm... would you rather argue the finer points of background material or prior art related to fantasy games and the applicability thereof to EQ2, or would you rather discuss real problems like broken skills or general ineffectiveness compared to other classes? Or, perhaps a good rousing discussion whether the mane and tail of the current Paladin horse was braided correctly, or that the saddle on said horse is of the Western style and would not have been invented in the Early Middle Age period from whence the knight in shining armor archtype was drawn from... the mind boggles with all the important things we could talk about! It was a freeby buff from day one. I for one am impressed with the fact that I managed to use it through 39+ levels without it getting nerfed. I rarely use it any more as it is - targeting from horseback is iffy at best. There are a dozen good roleplaying reasons you could make up to justify the speed changes to the horse. It was lamed in a recent combat. It has served you faithfully for many years, but is older and slower now than it used to be, and it would be a kindness to put it to pasture to enjoy the remainder of its days in the open field. And so on. I'll have to save up and buy my horse like everyone else. Now, if they could only concentrate on fixing the important stuff... Vaden 39 Paladin - Butcherblock

02-15-2005, 03:41 AM	#22
adrian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 28	I think it is pretty appaling that other classes come here to roll around and soak up the misery of a class that is clearly unhappy with a change in the game. Wheither you believe it was needed or not, enjoying the pain of others makes you appear pretty pety. I have Pali friends, and obviously, they are hurting pretty bad. One thing I can't understand though, is the constant reference to this being a debuff. I wouldn't mind an (unemotional) explaination of this.. I'm not attacking here, just wanting more info on it. If you can still sprint, and use buffs on foot, wouldn't you just ditch the now purely fluff-like ability in order to get the most out of your character anyway? I can't quite understand the bit about this inhibiting the class, when you can still sprint and speed buff on foot. Other than losing the awesome status symbol and pure sex-in-a-bottle nature of horsin' around, is there an unmounted debuff I just don't know about?

02-15-2005, 03:43 AM	#23
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	TerasDeathBlade wrote: your arguments saying that your fluff spell actually increases your chance of dying is terrible. you cant gain the benifits from the speed buffs while on the horse so get off. its not like you are being forced to ride it. my first character was a paladin actually i dont like the whole religious thing all that much though, so i deleted him. and if you had read my entire post i did say that i would have preferred all the fluff skills to be useful rather then the horse nerfed. and it shouldve been made a regular skill like any other instead of a fluff because paladins are defined by it in this game it seems. and you have to admit that its better the horse then your ability to tank. Exactly. I'm being forced NOT to ride it because of the risks associated. You are free to use your fluff spell whenever and wherever you want to without the risk of dying. Thank you for proving my argument for me. __________________ Throgg

02-15-2005, 03:50 AM	#24
ECDMupp Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	adrian76 wrote: I think it is pretty appaling that other classes come here to roll around and soak up the misery of a class that is clearly unhappy with a change in the game. Wheither you believe it was needed or not, enjoying the pain of others makes you appear pretty pety. I have Pali friends, and obviously, they are hurting pretty bad. One thing I can't understand though, is the constant reference to this being a debuff. I wouldn't mind an (unemotional) explaination of this.. I'm not attacking here, just wanting more info on it. If you can still sprint, and use buffs on foot, wouldn't you just ditch the now purely fluff-like ability in order to get the most out of your character anyway? I can't quite understand the bit about this inhibiting the class, when you can still sprint and speed buff on foot. Other than losing the awesome status symbol and pure sex-in-a-bottle nature of horsin' around, is there an unmounted debuff I just don't know about? There is no unmounted debuff, but if a paladin wants to ride around looking like a paladin, he has to suffer the consequences now. My toon doesn't want to run around on foot. he wants to ride his lame half-dead horse. But if he does, he'll have to dismount and sprint on foot if the battle goes badly. He doesn't feel like much of a paladin with a horse that's so slow, he can get off and run faster. __________________ Throgg

02-15-2005, 04:42 AM	#25
Coyt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Vaden2 wrote: I can't believe so much time is being wasted talking about this particular change. Go read the post by Najarati in this thread (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=5259) to see a part of the REAL list of problems that Paladins have. Hmm... would you rather argue the finer points of background material or prior art related to fantasy games and the applicability thereof to EQ2, or would you rather discuss real problems like broken skills or general ineffectiveness compared to other classes? You want to add another to the list ? Or, perhaps a good rousing discussion whether the mane and tail of the current Paladin horse was braided correctly, or that the saddle on said horse is of the Western style and would not have been invented in the Early Middle Age period from whence the knight in shining armor archtype was drawn from... the mind boggles with all the important things we could talk about! Actually now that you mention is the french poodle looking My Little Pony styling should be replaced with a plain white charger thanks for asking. It was a freeby buff from day one. I for one am impressed with the fact that I managed to use it through 39+ levels without it getting nerfed. I rarely use it any more as it is - targeting from horseback is iffy at best. A horse with no speed increase is not a horse its a liability. What more can i say? There are a dozen good roleplaying reasons you could make up to justify the speed changes to the horse. It was lamed in a recent combat. It has served you faithfully for many years, but is older and slower now than it used to be, and it would be a kindness to put it to pasture to enjoy the remainder of its days in the open field. And so on. Thats just sad. If its no big deal and easily worked in. . . you ride it. I'll have to save up and buy my horse like everyone else. Now, if they could only concentrate on fixing the important stuff... Uh, you can. Seems silly that I have to point that out. If you cant read your post and see the "Its not my problem what the hell do I care stop complainning" additude then there is nothing to say. You got your use out of it , why cant I ? Vaden 39 Paladin - Butcherblock __________________ http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=315553205

02-16-2005, 10:44 AM	#26
Stiderf Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 12	This was the second monk complaint I saw today on the forums of our Paladin Cage or Gage something of the sort most of you prob saw earlier the one with the tiger thing at least as of now and this Arsen person why all this hatred coming from the monks monks are supposed to be nicer than that