Fighter hp/power pool balance.... where is it?

MirageKnight · 11-16-2005, 05:01 AM

[HP/Power]

BUG
Obviously crusader doesn't have highest power pool among tank class. Equipment, stat that increase power pool isn't matching.

Monks and Bruisers have the highest health pool and lowest power pool.
Guardians and Berserkers have balanced health and power pools.
Paladins and Shadowknights have the lowest health pool and the highest power pool.

source:
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=combatchanges&section=development

Moreover, say hp 1000 / power 1000 is the base for balanced hp/power base;
hp 500 / power 1500 is not matching increase because of the fact that hp can be healed where power is harder to get healed in combat.

For example,
1200hp 500power +200 -500 (100 : 250)
1000hp 1000power base
800hp 2000power -200 +1000 (100 : 500)

from: Shadowknight BUG list
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=14402

This should be a very serious issue to be fixed immediately.
However, even after several big patches followed after the combat change patch, it hasn't been addressed at all.
I haven't see any post by EQ2 developers regarding comming fix...
There should be no excuse for postponing important issue like this waited for this long which greatly affect gameplay of each log in.

Less hp means, you will die faster than having more hp. Skill/spell using power should help them alive, that should have been the idea.
Having obvious lowest hp among fighter class, and lowest or not even obvious difference of power pool compared other fighter class is like EQ2 developer asking crusaders to play like crippled class.

I would like to know WHY it hasn't been addressed and WHEN (well obviously it should have been fixed by now) real fix comming.

MorgothTheTerrib · 11-16-2005, 11:36 AM

I've actually been wondering this myself. In pretty much ANY raid I'm a part of, every other tanks class has as much or more power than me. You may think this is because of other group members' buff, but when they drop raid, their power pool is exactly the same. Something seriously does need to be looked at here. Not sure is there's an STR modifer that's being calculated incorrectly or what, but we in no have more of a power base than any other fighter class.

Draq · 11-17-2005, 03:16 PM

I noticed this too, an example i saw yesterday: lvl 60 Guardian solo: around 5.5k hp and 2.5k mana me, solo buffed (adept3 or master): around 4.8k HP ad 2.2k mana In raids I often get buffed above the maintanks hp but I'm always lower on mana. Yes we can drain mana from mobs every 60sec but that does not equal the so called largest mana pool of all fighter classes. Please look into this.

PhozFa · 11-17-2005, 08:32 PM

Yes we can drain mana from mobs every 60sec but that does not equal the so called largest mana pool of all fighter classes

Since pallys can't manatap that shouldn't even be in the balance equation. This may be a crazy idea but instead of a bigger power pool (which we don't have anyway), i'd be happy if we just had a better power regen rate. But seriously the real issue is taunts. Who cares how much power you have or how many hps you have if the ranger is tanking?

Peace · 11-17-2005, 08:37 PM

I was also wondering if maybe the reason we have the "biggest power pool" is not a matter of how much mana we have, but how much our spells / CAs consumed per cast. We could have a smaller amount of mana and still have a larger power pool if, for example, all of our skills cost half as much to cast. I was just curious if anyone had considered this possibility, and what the consumptioin rate is for each of the fighter classes in relation to ours (I know our skill costs were seriously dropped after LU13). Just a thought.

Nemi · 11-18-2005, 10:01 PM

Well speaking as a monk moved to SK, I notice that power disappears WAAAY quicker than my Monk.

three · 11-23-2005, 12:46 PM

yeah.. i've notice the same thing. Shadowknight are power hogs period. And the bad thing about it is "You have no choice" you cant just stand there and auto attack you have to fire of CA. And for some reason i use way more power on my sk than i do with my monk. I can chain about 3-4 mobs with my monk before needing to regen power. With my ShadowKnight 2 mobs tops.

This is something they have to look into.

Jal · 11-23-2005, 04:03 PM

Power is a huge issue solo, ive gone for as much str and wisdom items as possible and my pools are alot better but still i drain through very fast usually emptying my pool on 3 mob encounters that are same/above my level. The fact i can stand there and auto attack helps and my pet is quite useful.Grouped however i find little problems as things die alot faster and group buffs bolster my stats to a survivable point and unless my group is very bad i have never usually ended up with less than half mana. Its usually when someone else takes agro such as a mage and im forced to ward and posibly Feign death them that problems occur as im then back to spamming my biggest hitters and taunts to try and regain agro.

Rylight · 11-23-2005, 08:02 PM

I'm literally a str sk, ever since I started this game every item, all my gear, and all my traits have been leaning straight towards str. and even then I seem to see many other tanks at the same lvl as me with a good amount more power then me, I admit we didnt get the biggest powerpool like Soe said, something needs to be adjusted

Zylokr · 11-23-2005, 08:33 PM

Another reason our power pool is consumed so fast is because we have to spam skills to keep aggro...Increasing our HATE will also fix power loss.kill 2 birds with 1 stone any1 ?Zylo Kron 60SKRaid OfficerExile / Befallen

Message Edited by Zylokron on 11-23-2005 07:33 AM

PhozFa · 11-23-2005, 08:37 PM

good point Zylokron but maybe we were meant to spam skills for agro hence why we need a bigger power pool. Would a bigger power pool improve out agro being that we could cast more?

mAdd0gtheHorrible · 11-24-2005, 06:43 AM

Exactly phozphate,I for one am dissappointed in the power pool the SK's got in turn for what they were told they were losing it for,At 1st i was bummed out about,The loss in mit (if that was one of the trade offs)But definately that we had the lowest health pool,Thats fudged me,But i have never,I MEAN EVER,Seen my power pool look like anything better then any other class,Where i could say"Hey SOE was right,We were gonna have a bigger power pool,For the lesser amount of HP,That we recieve"And with me at this moment,All i need is a bigger power pool,And i would probably have 0,Never ever ,Have any aggro issues,Cause i rarely have problems now.Cause remember ,Theres hundereds of ways and reasons we lose aggro,I should start a thread on a list of those lol,Alot of those are outta are control HA!!!!!!

three · 11-24-2005, 09:50 AM

To tell you the truth i dont think its the fact that we have to spam or CA as the reason to the problem of why we loose power so fast.

I think the problem or issue is in "How much power that skill uses" I think in relation to other tanks or other power pool classes or CA use way to much power. If they were to reduce the amount of power or skills required us to use this would solve the problem IMHO.

And in regards to "Taunts" i said it before and am going to say it again. The only difference in the tank class shouldnt be who's taunts are better it should come down to what skills tank class A uses as compared to tank class B.

All taunts should be on the same lvl. But i think the thing is we need a role. We know were good at solo play, but whats or role in a group.

Message Edited by three on 11-23-2005 08:51 PM

Jal · 11-25-2005, 03:57 AM

5th wheel

Meryddian · 11-25-2005, 01:00 PM

I'm literally a str sk, ever since I started this game every item, all my gear, and all my traits have been leaning straight towards str.

That's what I focus on for my SK's gear, too. If it doesn't have STR on it, it doesn't go on me... we're black holes of power and I take all the power sources I can!

PhozFa · 11-26-2005, 08:09 AM

three:All taunts should be on the same lvl. But i think the thing is we need a role. We know were good at solo play, but whats or role in a group.

we are a fighter our role has be set. We are a tank. When we aren't a tanking it seems our role is (very) minor dps and group support. Using reatcive lifetap on MT, using our buffs on MT. In addition to the small buffs that we have. But primary role is tanking. While taunts may not need to be on the same level i think all fighters should be able to generate the same amount of agro.Our hate over time sounds good on paper as us doing great long term hate building but the problem is we go oop faster than most trying to hold agro over long periods of time so in reality power now becomes an issue. But i admit not nearly like it was before the CC. If SKs who are focusing on power are still having the same problem then it is a problem. I admit i'm not one of those SKs i'm a dark elf who respec'd AGI.As far as stats on gear i don't feel there is much choices out there. T6 you should have atleast a set of cobalt untill you are able to attain any fabled and same with using vanadium jewelery. You can be a tad more diverse with the type of imbued rings and hex dolls you use thou.

MirageKnight · 11-30-2005, 11:51 PM

Thing is SK or any fighter other than monks burn their power fast because of amount of power needed to use arts.
So... what the point of having higher or less power if the class who has lower power uses less power each?

three · 12-02-2005, 12:42 PM

the thing is this...

If they are not going to increase or power pool and were still having problems using up most of or power on 1 mob then to solve the problem our skills that take from said power pool need to be looked at. :smileysad:

Mages have a hell of a power pool were taking 3k + i dont see why they cant increase or power pool to say 2k because not for nothing we are a magic base class. Were not a pure melee tank class so we need a high concentration of power for or skills.

JmhO :smileywink:

Message Edited by three on 12-01-2005 11:43 PM

11-16-2005, 05:01 AM	#1
MirageKnight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 184	[HP/Power] BUG Obviously crusader doesn't have highest power pool among tank class. Equipment, stat that increase power pool isn't matching. Monks and Bruisers have the highest health pool and lowest power pool. Guardians and Berserkers have balanced health and power pools. Paladins and Shadowknights have the lowest health pool and the highest power pool. source: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=combatchanges&section=development Moreover, say hp 1000 / power 1000 is the base for balanced hp/power base; hp 500 / power 1500 is not matching increase because of the fact that hp can be healed where power is harder to get healed in combat. For example, 1200hp 500power +200 -500 (100 : 250) 1000hp 1000power base 800hp 2000power -200 +1000 (100 : 500) from: Shadowknight BUG list http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=14402 This should be a very serious issue to be fixed immediately. However, even after several big patches followed after the combat change patch, it hasn't been addressed at all. I haven't see any post by EQ2 developers regarding comming fix... There should be no excuse for postponing important issue like this waited for this long which greatly affect gameplay of each log in. Less hp means, you will die faster than having more hp. Skill/spell using power should help them alive, that should have been the idea. Having obvious lowest hp among fighter class, and lowest or not even obvious difference of power pool compared other fighter class is like EQ2 developer asking crusaders to play like crippled class. I would like to know WHY it hasn't been addressed and WHEN (well obviously it should have been fixed by now) real fix comming.

11-16-2005, 11:36 AM	#2
MorgothTheTerrib Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 73	I've actually been wondering this myself. In pretty much ANY raid I'm a part of, every other tanks class has as much or more power than me. You may think this is because of other group members' buff, but when they drop raid, their power pool is exactly the same. Something seriously does need to be looked at here. Not sure is there's an STR modifer that's being calculated incorrectly or what, but we in no have more of a power base than any other fighter class. __________________

11-17-2005, 08:32 PM	#4
PhozFa General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Yes we can drain mana from mobs every 60sec but that does not equal the so called largest mana pool of all fighter classes Since pallys can't manatap that shouldn't even be in the balance equation. This may be a crazy idea but instead of a bigger power pool (which we don't have anyway), i'd be happy if we just had a better power regen rate. But seriously the real issue is taunts. Who cares how much power you have or how many hps you have if the ranger is tanking? __________________

11-17-2005, 08:37 PM	#5
Peace Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	I was also wondering if maybe the reason we have the "biggest power pool" is not a matter of how much mana we have, but how much our spells / CAs consumed per cast. We could have a smaller amount of mana and still have a larger power pool if, for example, all of our skills cost half as much to cast. I was just curious if anyone had considered this possibility, and what the consumptioin rate is for each of the fighter classes in relation to ours (I know our skill costs were seriously dropped after LU13). Just a thought. __________________ ::: Cipater Grey ::: 60 Dark Elf Shadowknight // 41 Armorer ::: Zetsumei ::: 16 Wood Elf ShadowCrusader // 19 Scholar ::: Dark Children of Lucan // Faydark Server

11-23-2005, 08:02 PM	#9
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	I'm literally a str sk, ever since I started this game every item, all my gear, and all my traits have been leaning straight towards str. and even then I seem to see many other tanks at the same lvl as me with a good amount more power then me, I admit we didnt get the biggest powerpool like Soe said, something needs to be adjusted __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

11-17-2005, 03:16 PM	#3
Draq Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 470	I noticed this too, an example i saw yesterday: lvl 60 Guardian solo: around 5.5k hp and 2.5k mana me, solo buffed (adept3 or master): around 4.8k HP ad 2.2k mana In raids I often get buffed above the maintanks hp but I'm always lower on mana. Yes we can drain mana from mobs every 60sec but that does not equal the so called largest mana pool of all fighter classes. Please look into this.

11-18-2005, 10:01 PM	#6
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	Well speaking as a monk moved to SK, I notice that power disappears WAAAY quicker than my Monk.

11-23-2005, 12:46 PM	#7
three Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 94	yeah.. i've notice the same thing. Shadowknight are power hogs period. And the bad thing about it is "You have no choice" you cant just stand there and auto attack you have to fire of CA. And for some reason i use way more power on my sk than i do with my monk. I can chain about 3-4 mobs with my monk before needing to regen power. With my ShadowKnight 2 mobs tops. This is something they have to look into.

11-23-2005, 04:03 PM	#8
Jal General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,345	Power is a huge issue solo, ive gone for as much str and wisdom items as possible and my pools are alot better but still i drain through very fast usually emptying my pool on 3 mob encounters that are same/above my level. The fact i can stand there and auto attack helps and my pet is quite useful.Grouped however i find little problems as things die alot faster and group buffs bolster my stats to a survivable point and unless my group is very bad i have never usually ended up with less than half mana. Its usually when someone else takes agro such as a mage and im forced to ward and posibly Feign death them that problems occur as im then back to spamming my biggest hitters and taunts to try and regain agro.

11-23-2005, 08:33 PM	#10
Zylokr Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 37	Another reason our power pool is consumed so fast is because we have to spam skills to keep aggro...Increasing our HATE will also fix power loss.kill 2 birds with 1 stone any1 ?Zylo Kron 60SKRaid OfficerExile / Befallen Message Edited by Zylokron on 11-23-2005 07:33 AM

11-23-2005, 08:37 PM	#11
PhozFa General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	good point Zylokron but maybe we were meant to spam skills for agro hence why we need a bigger power pool. Would a bigger power pool improve out agro being that we could cast more? __________________

11-24-2005, 06:43 AM	#12
mAdd0gtheHorrible Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tampa,Florida Posts: 31	Exactly phozphate,I for one am dissappointed in the power pool the SK's got in turn for what they were told they were losing it for,At 1st i was bummed out about,The loss in mit (if that was one of the trade offs)But definately that we had the lowest health pool,Thats fudged me,But i have never,I MEAN EVER,Seen my power pool look like anything better then any other class,Where i could say"Hey SOE was right,We were gonna have a bigger power pool,For the lesser amount of HP,That we recieve"And with me at this moment,All i need is a bigger power pool,And i would probably have 0,Never ever ,Have any aggro issues,Cause i rarely have problems now.Cause remember ,Theres hundereds of ways and reasons we lose aggro,I should start a thread on a list of those lol,Alot of those are outta are control HA!!!!!!

11-24-2005, 09:50 AM	#13
three Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 94	To tell you the truth i dont think its the fact that we have to spam or CA as the reason to the problem of why we loose power so fast. I think the problem or issue is in "How much power that skill uses" I think in relation to other tanks or other power pool classes or CA use way to much power. If they were to reduce the amount of power or skills required us to use this would solve the problem IMHO. And in regards to "Taunts" i said it before and am going to say it again. The only difference in the tank class shouldnt be who's taunts are better it should come down to what skills tank class A uses as compared to tank class B. All taunts should be on the same lvl. But i think the thing is *we need a role*. We know were good at solo play, but whats or role in a group. Message Edited by three on 11-23-2005 08:51 PM

11-25-2005, 03:57 AM	#14
Jal General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,345	5th wheel

11-25-2005, 01:00 PM	#15
Meryddian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: King's Guild, Guk Posts: 213	I'm literally a str sk, ever since I started this game every item, all my gear, and all my traits have been leaning straight towards str. That's what I focus on for my SK's gear, too. If it doesn't have STR on it, it doesn't go on me... we're black holes of power and I take all the power sources I can! __________________ Melime Darkstryder 85 SK/ Xiantia DarkFlyght 80 inq/ Sinikka Eversings 80 troub/ GUK

11-26-2005, 08:09 AM	#16
PhozFa General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	three:All taunts should be on the same lvl. But i think the thing is *we need a role*. We know were good at solo play, but whats or role in a group. we are a fighter our role has be set. We are a tank. When we aren't a tanking it seems our role is (very) minor dps and group support. Using reatcive lifetap on MT, using our buffs on MT. In addition to the small buffs that we have. But primary role is tanking. While taunts may not need to be on the same level i think all fighters should be able to generate the same amount of agro.Our hate over time sounds good on paper as us doing great long term hate building but the problem is we go oop faster than most trying to hold agro over long periods of time so in reality power now becomes an issue. But i admit not nearly like it was before the CC. If SKs who are focusing on power are still having the same problem then it is a problem. I admit i'm not one of those SKs i'm a dark elf who respec'd AGI.As far as stats on gear i don't feel there is much choices out there. T6 you should have atleast a set of cobalt untill you are able to attain any fabled and same with using vanadium jewelery. You can be a tad more diverse with the type of imbued rings and hex dolls you use thou. __________________

11-30-2005, 11:51 PM	#17
MirageKnight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 184	Thing is SK or any fighter other than monks burn their power fast because of amount of power needed to use arts. So... what the point of having higher or less power if the class who has lower power uses less power each?

12-02-2005, 12:42 PM	#18
three Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 94	the thing is this... If they are not going to increase or power pool and were still having problems using up most of or power on 1 mob then to solve the problem our skills that take from said power pool need to be looked at. :smileysad: Mages have a hell of a power pool were taking 3k + i dont see why they cant increase or power pool to say 2k because not for nothing we are a magic base class. Were not a pure melee tank class so we need a high concentration of power for or skills. JmhO :smileywink: Message Edited by three on 12-01-2005 11:43 PM